Hi all,

I seem to be having a small problem with what used to be a simple job.

This morning I decided to do a simple oil change and not as simple rear valve gasket change.

Everything was going fine up until it came time to start the car.

Talk about rough.

I am pretty sure I have the problem narrowed down to the Vacuum Chamber. The hoses don't seem to match up with what I have seen online.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ocun0qay4e09qik/IMG_1920.JPG

The other problem is I can't seem to work out what attaches to the 'plug' in the second pic.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0k70lcscnyb5ax9/IMG_1921.JPG

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I dont think the canister is your problem, depending on what you mean by images online, where you have no hose, mine has small section that goes to a tap and then carries onto nothing.

As for the 2nd picture, what is that of? If its the rocker cover you should have a hose that sits over that.

Edit: Does it run rough? If so on the back of the intake manifold there as a metal outlet that some rubber hose should sit over. Do you have that?

There is a hose that I know plugs into the rear valve cover just after the maf. What I wanted to confirm is, is that the right one?

When I start the car, it is rough and rumbling and I can hear what sounds to be air sucking even with the air intake attached.

Hose on the back of the manifold is the brake booster hose. If not attached, gives a massive airleak.

Also check the MAF is plugged in.

Next time, get a clear mental picture of where everything goes, or take photos, before you pull things off.
Got an intact Magna you can have a look at?

That cannister is a petrol vapor cannister to catch petrol fumes from the fuel tank, by the way.

There is a hose that I know plugs into the rear valve cover.

That comes from the throttle body.

If unsure take a pic of the throttle body/inlet manifold from the top, will be easier to tell from a better photo

Also check the MAF is plugged in.


And this ^^^^

New development. I put the while lot back together and now the car won't start. It cranks fine but won't seem to kick over.

New development. I put the while lot back together and now the car won't start. It cranks fine but won't seem to kick over.

Have you plugged all the connections back in? When you remove the inlet manifold to get at the valve cover, you have to disconnect electrics. Check all the plugs and dont forget the fuel rail one.

I suggest some "from above" photos.

When I put the inlet manifold back on, the car started - running horribly but running. Now it just won't seem to kick over.

My partner thought it might have been a fuse, so we checked those. Found one that was blown and replaced it.

Still won't start.

Ok so first of all how about the pictures?

Now before disconnecting anything electrical you need to disconnect the battery that means fuses dont blow unless you reverse the polarity of any wires. Check some more fuses, the fuse can stop the car from starting but as for the running horribly it will most probably be a misplaced vacuum hose.

Did you undo the spark plug leads? If you did, make sure that they are now in the correct place and order.

ok, first of all. the second pic, there is a hose that goes from the rocker cover to the throttle body snorkel, there is a little stem that pokes out on the snorkel near the throttle body, as for not starting, did you remember to connect the crank angle sensor? its located on the drivers side of inlet manifold on top. as for running rough, it could be the brake vacuum hose that's connected to the inlet manifold towards the back top more on the passengers side.... And also what erad said

I have given up for the night. The car seems hellbent on blowing fuses whenever I try to start it.

I made sure I plugged the leads back in the right order.

The hose from the rocker cover was plugged back into the throttle body and as for the vacuum hose - i have no idea where it is. The only hose that I can find that belongs from the throttle body to the vaccuum chamber is shown in this picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/obqktpg61f2b0ei/IMG_1922.JPG

Pics would be great, otherwise go through the systems affected by removing the plenum & valve cover step by step:

1. Are the plug leads in the right order? (firing order 123456)
2. Have you reconnected the brake booster hose? (back of the plenum chamber, thick hose)
3. All gaskets in place and not bent or broken? (plenum/manifold, plenum/EGR pipe, plenum/throttle body)
4. Have you reconnected all small vac hoses? (these vary a bit from model to model but make sure all hoses are connected: EGR valve, A & E & P on the throttle body, fuel vapour purge hose, don’t forget the fuel regulator hose in the plenum chamber near the throttle body, opposite the brake booster hose (blue striped hose on a TJ) - easily missed)
5. Plugs for crank angle sensor (driver’s side of plenum) and loom plug (pass side), plug for throttle position sensor (throttle body), plug for engine temp sensor (to the right of the front bank of cylinders), plugs for purge solenoid and EGR solenoid (above front bank of cylinders, hanging from plenum-to-manifold bolts), plug for coil/distributor (under throttle body), plug for idle speed motor (throttle body), all hooked up? (These don’t need to be unplugged to remove the plenum but might have been disturbed in the process.)
6. Air intake pipe fitted and air flow/temp sensor connected? (Black plastic intake hose. Without the sensor hooked up and air flowing through, the ECU won't run the motor properly).
7. All crankcase ventilation pipes hooked up? (throttle body to rear rocker cover, rear rocker cover to front rocker cover, front rocker cover via PCV valve to intake manifold)
8. Battery disconnected for a few minutes to reset the computer? (should have been disconnected at the start anyway)

There are a number of other things that could be at fault but these are the main systems that would/could have been disturbed removing the rear rocker (I think that’s all of them).

Sorry, posted at the same time! If the fuse that keeps blowing is the ECU fuse the fault could be shorted crank angle sensor wires, this has come up previously with respect to a TJ. Check the wiring around the plug hanging on the driver's side of the plenum by a 10mm bolt, there could be a bit of worn or fused insulation somewhere along its length.

The fuse that keeps blowing is a 20A yellow fuse that has a motor symbol on the guide.

OK well try this, remove the Crank Angle Sensor plug, replace the fuse, crank the car, if the fuse stays intact its the crank angle sensor wiring that is causing the problem, can be a simple as rubbing on the timing belt gear or anything else

If that is the problem just chase the wiring back find out where the issue is and solder some new wire in place

Thanks. I'll try that tomorrow morning after procuring new fuses.

I have given up for the night. The car seems hellbent on blowing fuses whenever I try to start it.



since all you did was remove the intake manifold to do some work with the rear rocker cover leads me to believe the when you reassembled things maybe you have pinched a wire. there is wires that runs tightly around the manifold there, make sure all of them are clear

Have seen this before, the loom to the rear injectors, check you have not pinched this on the inlet manifold, have seen this before and even done it once myself when in a hurry, that would fully explain why the fuse blows and the rough running as well

I actually looked at the injector loom this morning and found it was crushed. Luckily a trip to my local wreckers was in store and I found a replacement one off a very dirty 99 Magna. I put the new loom in, tightened everything up and replaced the fuses and the bitch started again.

Only thing is, I'm back to my original problem of it running really rough. The engine light on the dash stays on. Some occurred to me - could it be firing in an incorrect order?

From what I can tell, all pipes are connected and don't appear to me broken or split.

You will need to check for air leaks and poss do a diagnostic on the car, wrong firing order will not bring up check light and with the plug lead lengths unless you took them of the dist as well is almost impossible to mess up firing order

If the car is drivable you are welcome to drop by on Monday to us to check the car

Check all vac lines are on and check that the MAF is properly plugged in as well (as in the plug on the air flow sensor) On top of the TB if you have three hoses from front to back they go red, green, yellow.

I have checked the MAF. I unplugged it and the car would start then die out.

All the vac lines that I could find are attached to the motor and their respective outlets.

I was just thinking to replace all of the vac pipes and see what happens.

Those lines will nto cause check light, as stated you need to find our what that code is telling you before you start just replacing stuff

How do I go about finding out what code the ecu is giving me?

Grab some wire, ground the number one pin of the ECU and then watch how the engine light flashes, count with it and then find what that code means, or let us know what it means and then we can tell you what the problem is.

Once you ground the pin it will have a series of long flashes, so you need to count them so say it flashes five times you are in the fifties somewhere.

Then there will be a series of quick flashes and that will give you the single digit, so 4 flashes will give you the code of 54.

This should be the configuration of your plug, you will know if its the wrong one because it will spark.
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/indytech/2012-07-04_124941_dlc.png

.....and poss blow your ecu.

There was a very recent thread on code reading, look up that and all is there

Ok so I did it. If what I am reading it correctly, code 12 and 31 came up.

The Ellery w/s manual I have indicates code 12 as "air flow sensor system" and doesn't list a code 31. Code 41 however is "injector system"...

Thanks for that. I still have no idea what to do next. I think I will just take it to my trusted mechanic on Monday and let him look at it. Hopefully he can get it running back to its normal usual crappiness.

.....and poss blow your ecu.

Care to expand on this? Is it in regards to my wrong pin statement?

I was working on the TE many moons ago, needed to read the code, put the wire in what I "thought" was pin no 1, put it on a ground bolt, and it sparked, I was 100% sure it was pin number 1 and I hadn't had this problem previously. I had the wire from what was actually pin 16 I think, I put it in there with the batt disconnect but when the battery was reconnected to wire caught a light, the casing melted and the burning copper wire burnt through my carpet. Then I realised it was the wrong pin.

Disconnected the battery, removed the wire (what was left of it anyway), then for some reason they car wouldn't turn on, realised the battery was still disconnected. Reconnected it, all was still working 100%, I guess its harder to blow the ECU than I thought.

However in regards to your problem it seems you found and issue with the fuel injector loom wiring, however the code is still coming up, perhaps another look to check whether you found it all?

I'm going to have a final look at it tomorrow. Perhaps something isn't plugged in properly with the loom I got from the wreckers. If I can't find the problem, I will limp the car to my mechanic and make him fix it (he HATES Magnas).

I'm going to have a final look at it tomorrow. Perhaps something isn't plugged in properly with the loom I got from the wreckers. If I can't find the problem, I will limp the car to my mechanic and make him fix it (he HATES Magnas).

If the car is able, go to Mits-Fix. I can see you're out west (I'm psychic)... But - again, if the car is able - go straight to Madmagna at his place: http://www.mitsfix.com/

He knows exactly what he is doing with these cars.

I'm going to have a final look at it tomorrow. Perhaps something isn't plugged in properly with the loom I got from the wreckers. If I can't find the problem, I will limp the car to my mechanic and make him fix it (he HATES Magnas).

He hates Magnas, and you rushed the job and stuffed up. Good luck fixing it between you two.
(Poor, poor car. Take it to someone who knows what they are doing.)

He does know what he is doing. He hates Magnas because in his opinion they have the crappiest engines out there. He is a Holden guy.

He hates Magnas because in his opinion they have the crappiest engines out there.He is a Holden guy.

Thats far from the truth, his opinion is wrong. :happy:.

He hates Magnas because in his opinion they have the crappiest engines out there. "ecotec" that is all

"ecotec" that is all

Don't forget Alloytec either.

I strongly dislike people who throw out blanket statements like "this engine is crap", it's usually just opinion and lack of familiarity of a particular engine. A well maintained ecotec, alloytec, 4G74, Datsun 120Y, air cooled 1200 cc VW (etc etc) engine will you from one place to another at the appropriate legal speed limit.

If he was a sensible general purpose mechanic, he would not have such biases.

(Must say though, the Mitsu engines as a whole show more advanced technology that Holden, GM, Ford engines, but that makes me just as biased as anyone else. lol)

Anyway, I took it in this arvo and we had a look at it. Turns out only the 3 front cyclinders were firing.


My mechanic said I may have blown the computer. Having said that, if I had blown the computer, wouldn't all of the injectors be dead or do the front and rear lines run on different systems?

Further, if the computer was dead, why would it be giving me error codes in the first place?

I spoke with my father, and he agrees with me that perhaps the Power cables I pulled off of the other magna weren't compatible, seeing as the other magna was built in 98 or 99.

Thoughts?

Id imagine is the ECU is blown nothing will happen as all the electrical system bypasses it at one stage or another.

If you pulled the leads off a TE-TJ that shouldnt be an issue. Im not too sure id probably wait for other input.

Why don't you bring it in, we have the correct parts and knowledge to repair

Te is different to tf which is different to th to TW

Anyway, I took it in this arvo and we had a look at it. Turns out only the 3 front cyclinders were firing.

My mechanic said I may have blown the computer. Having said that, if I had blown the computer, wouldn't all of the injectors be dead or do the front and rear lines run on different systems?

Further, if the computer was dead, why would it be giving me error codes in the first place?
If the ECU was completely dead the engine won't run as the ECU controls the main engine relay. All injector signals are also ECU generated, as is the ignition signal to the distributor.

If all 3 of the rear cylinders aren't getting fuel (which is what I'm inferring from your comments) it would seem that the wiring for those injectors needs checking - I'm not certain but think that the "injector system" code is triggered by the ECU detecting that one or more injectors are open circuit.

I'm more than happy to bring it in Mal. Sadly, I live in Werribee. Driving the car the 2km from my house to my mechnic's shop was scary. The whole car was vibrating and I had to almost floor it to get it to move.

He does know what he is doing. He hates Magnas because in his opinion they have the crappiest engines out there. He is a Holden guy.

Your mechanic sounds like a typical grease monkey Holden chev badge, ss ute driving guy.

Have you thought to just check that the rear plug leads are seated properly? They can be a bit difficult to seat sometimes that's all. Just have a look under the inlet manifold be be sure they're pushed fully into position.

I know this might sound silly, but if its only the rear three cylinders it could be something worth taking a quick look at. That and just be sure the connectors to your injectors are seated properly also. The ECU wouldn't drop three out of six cylinders, the distributor wouldn't either. I'd be checking everything you have off or moved during your last repair before I start calling in the big guns.

Maybe get a camera under the inlet manifold and shoot us a all a photo to confirm?

Just me and my "start simple" way of looking at seemingly complicated problems.

The problem isn't the actual injectors, the problem is before that. My mechanic tested the voltage of the wires and found that no power was getting to the rear bank. He tested the actual wiring loom and found it was alright.

IF you mechanic knew these cars he would know where to check back to. Not trying to be a smart ass is just a fact

The power feed to the injectors stays on all the time with the ig on, it is the negative which pulses. When you shorted out the loom you changed the loom to the injectors from what I have read, it is possible that the new loom is defective. Best thing to try is trace it back to the main plug on the side of the inlet manifold and check each wire for continuity

I got the car back yesterday. Turns out my mechanic was correct. It was the ecu. The car is back in my garage and is running back at its usual grumpy self.

So car has new ecu. Strange it dropped one bank, must have blown the transistor in the ecu