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kevinm
11-06-2013, 06:57 AM
Hi Guys,

I know. I know. I read all the warnings that you made about RPW Extractors for the 380 but as you know I went ahead and had them fitted last November. Yet 6 months later and a few days ago, the 380 strated sounding like a diesel truck. I took it to my mehcanic today and he put it on the hoist. There is 10 cm crack in the extractor about 10mm from the flange at the engine exhaust outlet. Needless to say I am furious that the extractors have lasted just 6 months!. I have sent a very angry email to RPW requesting that they replace the extractors as I expect them to be still under warranty. I should not have to pay a cent to repair or replace them! I also advised my exhaust guy. Given the price of $850 delivered for the RPW extractors I can't believe that they can manufacture a product with such poor quality.Is it because they are the only manufacturer in Australia who does so? And they are becoming smug about having no competition? I really hope it is just a one off but When I think about it I realise some of you guys have experienced similar problems in the past....hence the warnings.

I would really like to say more but given this is a family forum, I will control my emotions and not use bad language. But I am so $%X^%$ angry, upset and disappopinted. And can you please resist the urge to say: "We told you so" . Kevin

HaydenVRX
11-06-2013, 07:22 AM
Stick with it and give rpw all thry deserve. Constanty shonky performance parts

Madmagna
11-06-2013, 08:59 AM
Certainly no "I told you so" and hopefully no one will be stupid enough to start that line going

Simply I hope they resolve this for you however if they do not I would be strongly thinking about taking action against them through an appropriate body such as office of fair trading or similar. You may have a hard time claiming labour as these are a performance part fitted to a motor car and on a technical note they are illegal for street use given that you are removing the only 2 cats on the car (the main one is just a dummy and according to our cat people has no precious metals in it at all). Most do fit an alternate cat however all it would take is for RPW to claim these are for competition use and labour costs go out the window.

Lets hope these guys do the right thing by you, please keep us updated.

KING EGO
11-06-2013, 09:05 AM
Ring RPW and discuss it with him.. His Supplier is in Sydney.. Ask dave if you can get his supplier to sort it out down this end. I did many years ago and was fine.

The guys who make his Pipes is Liverpool Exhaust Centre..

No need to bag any of the brands here. Best start making some calls to get it all rectified.

kevinm
11-06-2013, 09:22 AM
Thanks for the assistance guys that should help a lot. David from RPW replied and said that cracking is very unusual particularly in that part of the header. He has asked for photos which I am happy to provide. He also wants to know if I have modified the engine in any other way such as LPG or tuning. I told him no to both as I use 95/98 unleaded.
And not being that technically minded why should other mods cause the header to crack? Is it something to do with the gases being too hot or being expended at a greater rate?
Shouldn't the headers be manufactured to a tolernace level that takes account of other mods or improvements?

MadMax
11-06-2013, 10:13 AM
Probably nothing to do with 95/98 octane petrol. or LPG if you were running that.
Headers crack due to either stresses left behind in the manufacture of the pipe raw stock, or the headers themselves. There is a lot of thermal differential, but headers should (and can) run white/red hot on a engine dyno without self destructing.

Cast iron headers, on the other hand, are known for cracking. lol

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads12/glowing+bmw+m+v8+headers1197176043.jpg

kevinm
11-06-2013, 01:54 PM
Thank you that helps a lot.

kevinm
13-06-2013, 06:05 AM
Hi Guys,

Took the car to the Exhaust guy and all three rear pipes have cracks in them near the welds on the flange. He indicated that it wouldn't be long before the pipes actually brokle off as the cracks were widening.Suprisingly the front pipes look fine.
David from RPW wanted photos which we provided and he is sending new headers asap. He says that the only time he has seen cracks in that position is on vehicles running on LPG.

While I appreciate RPW responding positively, I really hope this issue doesn't recur. If it does I will not be happy!

Mitsu Miyagi
13-06-2013, 07:14 AM
wow what a quality set of headers, must use a specific fuel or the headers fall apart.

hope it gets sorted for you.

flyboy
13-06-2013, 08:02 AM
Not defending this mob because I know they have a bad rep on here, but cracking all three indicates to me that it's most probably more complicated. Given that all three on the back cracked but the fronts were fine, suggests that perhaps that it was dropped during transit or install, or that the back bank was forced into position and the bolts were holding a lot of forces.

Other possibility, did you drive through any huge puddles at speed recently? Could it have been caused by a sudden big splash of water up the back of the engine? I would have to climb under my 380 to see where all the guards are and if water could get up there.

MadMax
13-06-2013, 09:29 AM
Sounds to me like the rear one was stressed during installation, or bad welding during manufacture.

As for the cause being "you are using LPG" (if you actually are), were you warned about that?

Sounds to me like the old reason for misfortune, "You prayed to the wrong Gods", a common cop-out used 3,000 years ago. lol

At least you are getting a replacement. Watch carefully when they install it, make sure there is no mis-alignment that requires force to be used to join the bits together.

kevinm
13-06-2013, 09:31 AM
I agree that it is a strange situation.
I know that I haven't driven through any large puddles recently and I trust my Exhaust guy wouldn't force the pipes into position. However, they may have been dropped in transit but that is impossible to find out. Let's hope that it was just a once in a blue moon occurrence.

crackajnr
13-06-2013, 09:49 AM
check your engine roll stops also broken engine mounts will put extra force on the exhaust pipes when the engine rocks .

kevinm
13-06-2013, 09:55 AM
okay thanks

kevinm
13-06-2013, 12:42 PM
Thanks Mal.
My exhaust guy has taken a very close look at them and he says that given the cracks are close to the weld, he feels strongly that it was caused in the manufacturing process somehow. But we'll probably never know.

Mitsu Miyagi
13-06-2013, 02:09 PM
put the new ones on ebay, fit the stock manifold back on

Skapper
13-06-2013, 04:03 PM
Well, I'm going to weigh in on this one.

For quite some time I was having an issue with my headers and went about trying to find an alternative AWD header set. I contacted RPW and had a good conversation with him about his headers cracking - at the time he mentioned the LPG issue. Right or wrong he was helpful and came across honest enough.

I doubt this guy knocks these up in his back shed (right?), the issue is quality control at his suppliers end. The idea is that you tell the distributor (RPW) and he in turn tells the supplier. eventually the issue is resolved. This same process occurs with other manufacturers also. The trade off I guess is - you get what you pay for; thin walled mild steel (uncoated) vs thicker stainless steel (coated) will cost more even before you weld it together.

I'm not defending RPW, just being the devils advocate - and, in my recent personal experience (expense), header issues are not limited to the small guys either. How they manage the issues is what sets them apart.

HaydenVRX
13-06-2013, 04:31 PM
Intetrsting about the ateel debate. Stainless steel extractors are usually much weaker due to the pipe thickness being like tin. A good set of thick stainless headers set you back a near 2000 . So when you find headers like the ralliart ones stick with them! (Talking in terms of 3rd gen)

Skapper
13-06-2013, 04:45 PM
Intetrsting about the ateel debate. Stainless steel extractors are usually much weaker due to the pipe thickness being like tin. A good set of thick stainless headers set you back a near 2000 . So when you find headers like the ralliart ones stick with them! (Talking in terms of 3rd gen)

HM's are only 1.3mm walled. Stainless steel work hardens with heat potentially making it more prone to cracks under stress, especially in welded sections of bent pipe. The advantage of stainless is its corrosion resistance, and in some cases it looks pretty. The HM's probably last well due to their design (short primaries, two flex joints in the y-pipe) and the companies quality control.

If OP's headers cracked all three primaries on the rear bank I'd be guessing the centers between the y-pipe inlets are incorrect (vertically or horizontally), or the y-pipe length is incorrect. Depending on where the cracks in the three primaries where (top or bottom). If it were just one or two primaries with cracks it could be they weren't set properly in the jig when welded together. Its cracking past or around the welds - so its material or design/quality control. Something that could be avoided IF the manufacturer make allowance for it.

kevinm
14-06-2013, 09:06 AM
Good points.

I don't wish to bag RPW either, but as an aggrieved customer of theirs, I do have the right to be annoyed about this situation and offer a warning to others contemplating modifying their car in the same way.
The crack first appeared on the bottom of the middle primary. However, a more thorough inspection revealed the cracks on the other two primaries were coming from the top and were spreading towards the bottom. I'd estimate the cracks were just a couple of mm from the welds. Eventually the stress would have caused the cracks to join up and the pipes would come away from the flange altogether.
I still find is strange that it has only occurred in the rear. If they were manufactured poorly then surely the same stresses on front and rear pipes would have the same result. I should aslo point out that RPW would be almost the most expensive headers in the mild steel header range for the same type of vehicle. Although a small manufacturer, I would have to agree that poor qaulity control should be a No No when you are the only manufacturer of headers for a certain vehicle or product. In fact I would argue that quality control should be far more thorough given the small quantity of pieces that are made.

Mitsu Miyagi
14-06-2013, 09:17 AM
doesnt liverpool exhaust make them for RPW?

Skapper
14-06-2013, 09:47 AM
The flange on the rear bank, most likely on the y-pipe is probably misaligned or at the wrong vertical height, OR the y-pipe is too short between flange centers - its pulling down on the rear banks headers.

Just my theory.

Replacing just the rear headers would not fix the problem. I'd suggest asking for an entire replacement set of headers. Check alignment when fitting - test fit first, comparing dimensions of the parts when they're assembled versus their dimensions unassembled, to see there's no stretching/pulling.

The cracks outside of the weld, to me suggest the weld has weakened the material. Again, this is an opinion based comment. Not enough direct experience with weld failures.

Oh, and by memory these RPW headers are uncoated - highly recommend having them coated or all f this upcoming hard work/hassle will be for naught when they rust away.

Good luck with it though, and keep us updated on your progress.

GTVi
14-06-2013, 09:52 AM
In order for stainless steel to harden with heat, it needs to be brought up to a very high heat and then quenched.
Heating the steel, and then letting it "air cool" will anneal the steel and make it tougher not harder.

Is it possible that the headers were running red hot, and then "stressed" by going through a large amount of water? (although it would need to be a substantial amount of water) If there was already undue stress on the install that would explain the cracks forming at the same point. A combination of more than one problem.

MadMax
14-06-2013, 10:17 AM
Hint for installing a new one: (Ask the installler if not DIY.)

Bolt the new rear header loosely to the exhaust ports, leaving a gap, then attach/align and do up the other end. Check the gap between the head and header, if it is different top to bottom at each pipe, there is your stress related problem.
(Manufacturer may have a jig that has gone out of alignment over the years, from shoving it into storage and pulling it out numerous times. lol
Or other causes. lol)

kevinm
14-06-2013, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the suggestions Guys

kevinm
02-07-2013, 08:05 AM
Hi guys,

Finally received the RPW headers and had them fitted on Friday. The exhaust guy feels that the pipes and the flange welds appear to be better than the ones that cracked.....They had better be!! Still cost me $300 to get them fitted but that's fair enough given that it wasn't his fault that the pipes cracked.

He also had little trouble lining up the flanges to the block and there was no rubbing of the pipes at the crossover point. So altogether he is happy and therfore so am I. So far no CEL coming on, but its early days. With the headers fixed, the engine note is now back to that sweet tone I was enjoying prior to them cracking. Here's hoping they last.

kevinm
04-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Hi guys,

Finally received the RPW headers and had them fitted on Friday. The exhaust guy feels that the pipes and the flange welds appear to be better than the ones that cracked.....They had better be!! Still cost me $300 to get them fitted but that's fair enough given that it wasn't his fault that the pipes cracked.

He also had little trouble lining up the flanges to the block and there was no rubbing of the pipes at the crossover point. So altogether he is happy and therefore so am I. So far no CEL coming on, but its early days. With the headers fixed, the engine note is now back to that sweet tone I was enjoying prior to them cracking. Here's hoping they last.

jattsta
04-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Hey kev, would you mind putting up a quick clip on youtube showing that sweet sound :P

Skapper
05-07-2013, 07:05 PM
Hi guys,

Finally received the RPW headers and had them fitted on Friday. The exhaust guy feels that the pipes and the flange welds appear to be better than the ones that cracked.....They had better be!! Still cost me $300 to get them fitted but that's fair enough given that it wasn't his fault that the pipes cracked.

He also had little trouble lining up the flanges to the block and there was no rubbing of the pipes at the crossover point. So altogether he is happy and therefore so am I. So far no CEL coming on, but its early days. With the headers fixed, the engine note is now back to that sweet tone I was enjoying prior to them cracking. Here's hoping they last.

Pics!!! You gotta upload pics! For science.

kevinm
08-07-2013, 12:32 PM
Yes good idea. I'll get some pics for you.