Hello all,

Have a 2005 Mitsubishi 380 VRX with 170,000km on the clock. Had the car since new and have been very much happy with it. I had the cam belt done back in August 2011. Got a complete belt kit (Bosch brand) including tensioners fitted.

A short time after this (coincidentally) I noticed a brief noise on start up which disappeared after a couple of minutes and once the engine warmed up. I have tried a couple of different oils which has made no difference. I notice the problem is more likely to appear on colder mornings. Once the engine has warmed up it runs very quietly with no issues. Initially it didn't bother me but I guess the problem has progressively got worse and now takes a couple minutes to disappear.

I think it may be the cam belt tensioner and was interested in peoples feedback and opinion. So I have uploaded a recording for reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKcaLG7y_A&feature=youtu.be

ANy feedback would be more than appreciated.

Thanks:)

Hi,
We have covered this countless times

Start car, if you hear noise shut down and restart, if noise gone then is per tensioner

We do not recommend use of any after market pre tensioners, we only fit genuine

Mal, just got mine replaced at a Mitsubishi dealer a month ago and now it started again. This time, it lasts longer. Previously, it was only 2 to 5 seconds of rattle. Now it lasts upto 30 seconds and is more of a random series of clunkity-clunk. Do you reckon it is the same issue? I have to wait till 2nd of July to get it looked at again.

Here is a short vid of mine taken this morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23H5u88kJb4&feature=youtu.be

They all eventually do it, even the pajeros get it after a while too, thicker oil helps, it's valves & tappets

They all eventually do it, even the pajeros get it after a while too, thicker oil helps, it's valves & tappets

Hmm, its not valves and tappets as it comes from the belts section of the engine. Mine has only done 115K and still has engine and drivetrain warranty.

If it is a acc belt to tight enough can make a real noise when cold also as well as acc belt too old and wearing

Did they use genuine as I know of some dealers who use aftermarket parts now days as well

I've got the same issue happening, some mornings it sounds like a tractor...

I recently put the car in for 125K service after returning from the Mech this issue has started. Prior to getting the service the car had used/burnt some oil so I dumped what was left (70%) and put a higher grade oil in.

I told the mechs I had done this and to put decent oil in it prior to the service, I took it back and told them about the cold start issue that has now started since they have serviced the car.

They replaced the oil with a better oil (apparently) however the issue is still occurring...

On the next start when it sounds like a tractor I will do the turn off and restart to see if it is the pre tensioner.

What Oil would you guys recommend that should be run in these engines to prolong their life?

Thanks for the feedback. Checked it out this morning and noise was still there after stopping and restarting the first time..disappeared after the second time.

How long did you leave it, give 10 to 15 seconds

Mal, pretty sure genuine at agostino mitsubishi (charged me enough for it). could the have over tihtened the acc belt while doing the pretensioner?
like TonySid said when I switched it off and started again the noise was still there. Did not try restart second time. I do remember previously that the noise was gone after first restart. Mal, by acc you mean accessories belt and not a/c belt, right? cheers.

ACC belts I mean as power steering and air con, if under tightened or the belts have gone hard can cause a bottom end sounding noise

So, Mal, after further diagnosis, it seems that if I leave the AC/Fan off and start on cold mornings/nights, there is no clunkity-clunk sound. Does this mean it is the acc belt either worn or too tight?

Cheers,
Vlad

I decided to change the oil over the weekend as it was due. Previously had Castrol 5w30 fully synthetic..now Penrite HPR10...car seems a lot smoother..so it should with fresh oil I guess!

Tried starting cold engine yesterday morning, no noise. Tried it this morning and had the noise. Turned engine off and waited 20 seconds then turned on and no noise ! So very likely the pre tensioner. Are these difficult to change without removing the belt?

We do these all the time without removing the belt, is not too hard but you do need to reset the tension on the belt

Still looking into doing this myself.

This is a noob question; the balancer comes off in order to replace the tensioner? Right?

It appears as though it needs to.

Was going to practice this tensioner swap a few times on my old Magna first. Mostly to see if its possible to do one handed and secondly to do it enough times to be confident enough to complete the task on the AWD.

Still looking into doing this myself.

This is a noob question; the balancer comes off in order to replace the tensioner? Right?



Ancillary belts and crank pulley need to come off. Lower plastic cam guard needs to come off. Probably don't need to remove the engine mount, but I've never tried to replace just the tensioner so NFI, worth a try.
You may need to move the power steering pump to clear the lower belt cover when you come to take it off. And the alternator/aircon idler, but NFI again. lol

Mal will add the rest and correct me. lol

How are you planning to lock the crank pulley when you undo that bolt?

Seeing this is the 380 section and you are talking about Magnas, perhaps someone should post a "how to" in the DIY section? (with pics of course. lol)

Ancillary belts and crank pulley need to come off. Lower plastic cam guard needs to come off. Probably don't need to remove the engine mount, but I've never tried to replace just the tensioner so NFI, worth a try.
You may need to move the power steering pump to clear the lower belt cover when you come to take it off. And the alternator/aircon idler, but NFI again. lol

Mal will add the rest and correct me. lol

How are you planning to lock the crank pulley when you undo that bolt?

Seeing this is the 380 section and you are talking about Magnas, perhaps someone should post a "how to" in the DIY section? (with pics of course. lol)

Geez. Most of that sounds do-able one handed. Holding the crank pulley to remove the bolt? Or to remove the pulley once the bolt was out? I'd be looking to get the right tools before I started, if it requires a special doodad I'd buy one.

There are ways around the one handed thing, but it requires a realistic approach to be successful. Preparation goes a long way in helping.

This isn't something I'm going to do myself unless I'm 100% confident I can do it... backed up by repeatable successful attempts on my old Magna/parts car.

Holding the crank pulley to remove the bolt? Or to remove the pulley once the bolt was out? I'd be looking to get the right tools before I started, if it requires a special doodad I'd buy one.


Pulley slides right off the crankshaft end once the bolt is off, no force required. (Unless it is rusted on, as was the case with the last Lancer I did a cam belt change on)

"Special doodad" currently unavailable in all car parts stores. lol I've asked around.

The proper mitsu tool is a steel "Y" shaped long handled holder, with two pins that fit into the holes in the crankshaft pulley.
I made up one from rectangular section steel - used drill bits that have a shank that fit tightly into those holes, used same drill bits to drill holes (spacing is important obviously) and an angle grinder cut window between them for the socket and extension to go onto the bolt. Reversed the drill bits, fitted them into the holes along with the socket onto the bolt, turned it gently until the steel hit something solid, then heaved away on the bolt. (Axle stand, positioned at the end of the bar, so there is a 90 degree meeting.) Broke a torque wrench and twisted a bar first time, used a chrome vanadium bar and another smaller section piece of steel tube, and heaved away. Torque wrench to do up later.


This tool now takes pride of place in the garden shed for next time. lol There are other ways to do it though.

Mostly to see if its possible to do one handed

Can I ask what happened to your other hand Skap - guessing its to do with your Avatar n screws n things?

Steve

Can I ask what happened to your other hand Skap - guessing its to do with your Avatar n screws n things?

Steve

How'd I lose the arm? High fived a helicopter.

No, seriously though, I lost it when I put it down in a busy supermarket and some b@stard stole it. Be on the lookout for some guy with three arms.

Just kidding, I had to chew off when it got caught in Roseanne Barrs g-string... she dropped some doritos down there and I was hungry.

Following thread with great interest.

I can start mine first up on a cold morning and purs in P or N . Let it idle for several mins and still perfectly fine.

Go to reverse out of driveway and then shift it into D there is a definate noise from the engine.

Had the transmission service done ( complete flush ) and given a clean bill of health by a reputable transmission fella been in the business longer than he cares to remember.

I should add in the driveway cold it gives a little knocking / rattle sound with a quick push on the loud pedal so really only appears when under load.

Well, dropped my car off on Monday for them to test it out Tuesday morning and also do a service. I even played them the video with the sound but they could not replicate it so had the car with them another day and this morning they rang saying it is in the drive belt area and the alt belt has cracks so the most likely culprit.

. . . it is in the drive belt area and the alt belt has cracks so the most likely culprit.

It's fairly obvious it is in the drive belt area. Three belts and 4 idlers, as well as a hydraulic tensioner all in the same area. So this info doesn't really help much.
Cracked alternator belt doesn't make any extra noise - if not adjusted tight enough, the belts can be noisy until they warm up, but it is a quite different noise.

Scenario:
Mechanic: New alt belt on, all fixed!
You: You beauty!

Next day:
You: Nope, noise is still there!
Mechanic: . . . . swears like a trooper. (Details omitted to protect the children.)

Mind you, if he is going to check/replace ancillary belts, get him to check the belt idlers for play and roughness.

Steeler, your issue is most likely the engine pipe divider

VLad, the mechanic is an idiot, while the belt clearly needs replacing and should have been done last service anyway, the start up noise is the pre tensioner. If was the belt it would be a groaning sound or more of a bottom end knock which is hard to hear. This sound is loud and can be heard a block away

Ancillary belts groan, tensioner sounds more like a Diesel engine with big end problems on startup. No comparison.

(My TJ gives me the belt groan in the morning, neighbour's car gives me the hydraulic tensioner noise from a cold start, so I'm a bit of an expert in telling the difference. lol Hear both noises most days.)

Anyhow - looks like you will be revisiting the mechanic a few times to get it sorted.

Ok, had the pre-tensioner replaced a month ago and the noise then was more of a constant rattle on cold starts. Switching off and then on again and the noise is gone.

This time round, a month later, the noise is more hollow and not constant at all, clunk clunk, .... clunck, .... clunk clunk etc and switching off and then on does not make the sound disappear, even leaving it a good 30 seconds before restarting.

Ok, had the pre-tensioner replaced a month ago and the noise then was more of a constant rattle on cold starts. Switching off and then on again and the noise is gone.

This time round, a month later, the noise is more hollow and not constant at all, clunk clunk, .... clunck, .... clunk clunk etc and switching off and then on does not make the sound disappear, even leaving it a good 30 seconds before restarting.

If it's a new 1 month old pretensioner, I doubt if it has failed already, even if it was an aftermarket one. If the plunger in it is fully extended but belt tension hasn't been taken up, it will rattle no matter what you do. Probably a case of poor initial setup, or the central bolt for the eccentric idler pulley on the swing arm that the tensioner controls, has come loose.
You need to go back to the guy who did the job and let him hear the noise himself.

Steeler, your issue is most likely the engine pipe divider

VLad, the mechanic is an idiot, while the belt clearly needs replacing and should have been done last service anyway, the start up noise is the pre tensioner. If was the belt it would be a groaning sound or more of a bottom end knock which is hard to hear. This sound is loud and can be heard a block away


Thank you Mal for the tip. Never had experience with a buggered pipe divider, what am i looking for ie crack ?.

If it's a new 1 month old pretensioner, I doubt if it has failed already, even if it was an aftermarket one. If the plunger in it is fully extended but belt tension hasn't been taken up, it will rattle no matter what you do. Probably a case of poor initial setup, or the central bolt for the eccentric idler pulley on the swing arm that the tensioner controls, has come loose.
You need to go back to the guy who did the job and let him hear the noise himself.
They definitely heard it this morning. I haven't picked the car up yet. I spoke to Mal as well. Will have to wait and see. Mal thought I was still talking about the rattling noise and not the clunking noise.

How can one check the engine pipe divider. Is it possible that engine pipe divider noise can stop after driving only 20 metres, maybe heat up enough in this time for noise to stop??

My Series 2 GT has been in at Mitsubishi having the ticking noise when cold checked. My noise occurs under load for a few minutes until engine warms up, i thought it would be the lifters. The mechanic indicated it could be either piston slap or bottom end bearings.

Car has done 98,000km. Is this unusual. I remember hearing some problem with engines a few years ago on this forum.

Well, good news is that the engine is very quiet now, besides the noise from the 380 cams and the hissing of the CAI even when it has warmed up and the clunking was not present this morning. Will check this evening. Fingers crossed it was the severely cracked alt belt. The mechanic said there were no play in all pulleys and no other signs of wear and tear.

And I don't know if it is a placebo effect but the car is running a lot smoother now.

Fingers crossed, definitely.

BTW (and FWIW and IIRC) Gates website says cracked belts are ok to use, but if there are rib sections missing of more than 1 inch in length, to replace the belt.
No mention of cracked belts going noisy.

Fingers crossed, definitely.

BTW (and FWIW and IIRC) Gates website says cracked belts are ok to use, but if there are rib sections missing of more than 1 inch in length, to replace the belt.
No mention of cracked belts going noisy.
Service supervisor said severely cracked on the phone so could be a laymans interpretation but the engine is definitely running a lot quieter, even with the bonnet open in my garage this morning.

I'm proud to announce that I replaced my timing belt tensioner... sort of.

It took THREE arms, this is NOT a one handed job. Thanks to Zeik for the use of his arms.

Did a practise run on my old Magna first before tackling the job on the AWD.

Now for the "sort of" explanation. Money has suddenly gotten very tight in my world (CSA rant pending), so I planned to reuse the tensioner I removed from my old car. It had done about 30,000km this tensioner so I figured it would get me by until I had cash to replace it with a new one.

Practise run out of the way and we moved on to the AWD... holy sh!t was that timing belt LOOSE!! Absolutely frightening to pull the top timing belt covers and feel/see so much slack in the belt. No splits, rubs or frayed sections so I "hope" its still good.

Turns out the mechanic that replaced my timing belt (only 7000km ago) didn't pay attention to detail. First up I had a few loose water pump bolts. Most importantly it appears as though he had not set the eccentric pulley correctly AND he certainly had not torqued it's center bolt to 48nm like she should have - getting the eccentric pulley bolt loose meant taking the swing arm off, putting it in a vice and using a side loading socket.

Putting it all back together I used a pair of circlip pliers to apply some tension to the eccentric pulley while Zeik tightened it bolt.

The whole job took some time, but that was mostly due to nerves, inexperience and fitting/removing two hydraulic tensioners. That and a whole lot of checking, rechecking, safety checking and rechecking... testing, checking and rechecking. At the end of the day. literally, the car started and was both free of bent valves and timing belt clatter. Though, it did have a sh!tload of valve clatter as the lifters bled down (thats gone now).

I'm going to give this job a 6/10 for difficulty, but its totally worth it if you have the tools and the time. Bear in mind, that if you slip up it goes from 6/10 to 9.5/10 pretty fast.... like when you maybe have the belt jump a tooth and have to re-time everything.

Good on ya!
Not everybody has the ballz to try this job.
Circlip pliers, never thought of using those, but I can see that would work.

Did you set the hydraulic tensioner up with enough tension so the grenade pin in the tensioner could slide about easily, then give the engine 2 full crank rotations, and test the pin for looseness before taking it out permanently?
(As per manual)
I think that is the point where some people get it wrong.
Needless to say, you religiously followed all the torque recommendations in the manual, right? lol

lol You are right about the nerves. lol
Second time around though, you just get on with it. lol

Good on ya!
Not everybody has the ballz to try this job.
Circlip pliers, never thought of using those, but I can see that would work.

Did you set the hydraulic tensioner up with enough tension so the grenade pin in the tensioner could slide about easily, then give the engine 2 full crank rotations, and test the pin for looseness before taking it out permanently?
(As per manual)
I think that is the point where some people get it wrong.
Needless to say, you religiously followed all the torque recommendations in the manual, right? lol

lol You are right about the nerves. lol
Second time around though, you just get on with it. lol

oh geez man, nice way to make me nervous :/

I followed the factory manual pretty much step by step. But it was the rod extension of the hydraulic tensioner that gave away the fact the eccentric pulley was out. Rod extension was around the 8mm mark when I pulled the bottom timing cover off.

Drill bits were used to pin the tensioners and they didn't put up much of a fight coming out. The rod extension on the hydraulic tensioner was around the 5mm mark when we'd gotten everything back together.

The two full crank rotations, a five minute wait, some more crank rotations... some more waiting and more crank rotations before refitting all the covers and balancer. Checking the timing each time. Then a few quick hits with the starter (CAS disconnected) followed by winding it over for a few seconds, then checking the timing again. There was A LOT of checking.... the fear sweat was pretty thick, I didn't want my next post on the forums to be titled "How to fix a bent valve?".

Torque recommendations? Yes and no. I couldn't get my tension wrench to read 4.4nm when attached to a pair of circlip pliers.

Next weekend I'm replacing my hydraulic lifters....

Torque recommendations? Yes and no. I couldn't get my tension wrench to read 4.4nm when attached to a pair of circlip pliers.


Yeah, Nah! As long as that pin slides in and out easily you don't need to worry about that particular setting. I meant the others, like the crank pulley bolt.

One more thing, because its not like me to not make an attempt at comedy.

Getting the balancer off was proving to be too difficult without a tool to stop the crank from turning. I didn't have enough gear to jimmy something up so I took a drive to Supercheap and bought myself a $60 "electric rattle gun". Oh man, the laughter.

For a start it was 12v and ran from you cigarette lighter outlet. Which was a drag because the cable was JUST too short to go from the AWD to where the Exec was parked. This brought about an interesting combination of parking and 12v extensions. But we got there.

So, I fire up my top quality rattle gun; whiiiiiiiirrrr CLATTER whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrr CLATTER whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrr CLATTER...... and so on for about five minutes with the only other sound being laughter. The exec's bolt came out quick, but the mechanic that did the AWD had two torque settings; "finger tight" and "rattle gun x 1000 tight", so getting its crank bolt out took a sh!t load of "whiiiiiiirrrr CLATTER" to remove. So much so that the laughter couldn't keep up.

By the end of the day the rattle gun was making three sounds "whiiiiiiirrrrr" "CLATTER" and "tinkle".

So far my harmonic balancer has not fallen off. But I'll be checking it this weekend.

Yeah, Nah! As long as that pin slides in and out easily you don't need to worry about that particular setting. I meant the others, like the crank pulley bolt.

ah.... sure? I had no tool to keep the crank from turning, so I just hit it with my awesome rattle gun. Which sounds spectacularly stupid I know, but I was kind of in a jam. And, in my defense (and the rattle guns defense) that crank bolt sure isn't going anywhere.

hmm. car haven't been making the noise the past few mornings and evenings. I wonder if it is due to ever so slightly warmer weather or is it pure coincidence.

I found when my Tensioner was noisey it would do it more in colder weather.

Hi georgegeo, mine was one of those cars with the rattle at cold start. I've put up with it until recently but now sick of it and my car is still under extended warranty, so it's been looked at again lately.

My issue doesn't appear to be the pre-tensioner though - I have a rattle sound at cold start (worse on colder mornings, lasts up to a few minutes), but turning the car off, waiting and restarting does not make any difference. Mine has 75,000km on it and my rattle sound does not sound like that of TonySid's in the video he posted at the start of this thread. It's not noticeable at idle with the bonnet up - you need to be driving with some moderate load on the engine - at higher speed, road/tyre noise drowns it out.

When the missus started complaining about it (who is nowhere near as fussy as me with cars), I knew it was time to finally get it sorted. Last week I picked it up after a dealer did some work - the guy at the service desk was quite dismissive when I suggested they look a the timing belt pre-tensioner, but they replaced the rocker arm lash adjusters (12 x part code MD377560) and the air intake surge tank gasket (part code MD199282) which has quietened it down ever so slightly, but has not fixed the problem. So it's going back in next week for more diagnosis...

The mechanic who came with me on an initial road test agreed it sounded like oil not circulating around the engine quickly enough after start, even though he was doubtful that would be the problem. The worst it ever sounded though was after coming back from a holiday and I didn't notice I'd gone through a bit of oil from the long drive home. Next morning the rattle was way louder than usual and took way longer to subside - I checked the oil and noticed it had dropped slightly below the low fill mark.

I'll post back the outcome for the interest of others.

Cheers,
Adam.

I have had that rattle sound from 75k. I did a timing belt change and they reset the tensioner at 100k by the mitsu dealer. The sound was gone, but has just recently returned again at 135k. It is very unpredictable as to which mornings it will rattle. There has been times where i have travelled and left the car sitting there for 2 weeks, come back and starts up fine with no rattle. And there are some warm morning when it rattles. Sometimes it goes away after 10 seconds, and sometimes only after a minute.

The sound does not bother me anymore , as it gets very smooth and quiet soon after.

But my question is, if i just left it, could it do massive damage or can it wait till the next belt change to do the tensioner?

Cheers!

I picked up my 380 recently after the dealer replaced more of the lash adjusters (had to wait a month for parts to come from Japan apparently). Unfortunately it still hasn't solved the problem of the rattle at cold start, so it's going back in this Friday to be looked at again...

Doing the shutdown/wait 10-20 seconds/restart routine doesn't solve the rattle in mine, but does anyone know if it might still be the timing belt pre-tensioner, i.e. is this a fool-proof diagnosis method of a worn/faulty pre-tensioner?

Cheers,
Adam.

Hmm, try this. Put it into gear as soon as the car starts (R or D for auto and R or 1st for manual). My rattle dies down to almost unnoticeable.

Hi vlad, thanks for the suggestion - just tried it but no luck.

That said, the rattle in mine is quite hard to hear at idle when it starts ups (you can very faintly hear it in the garage, with the echo off the walls), but its under mild load (when engine, tyre & road noise doesn't drown it out) when first driving off that's it's most noticeable. Then usually disappears after about a minute of driving as it warms up.

Confusing the situation is a constant tick it also makes, most noticeable at idle, but which speeds up/down in time with revs, and occurs hot or cold. This sounds like it's coming from somewhere close to the emission control valve, as per: www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93441&page=1 (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93441&page=1), but I've disconnected that with no change and it also sounds like a slower tick than the faint ticking I can hear coming from the ECV.

I'll post back with anything further once it goes back in to the dealer on Friday.

Hi vlad, thanks for the suggestion - just tried it but no luck.

That said, the rattle in mine is quite hard to hear at idle when it starts ups (you can very faintly hear it in the garage, with the echo off the walls), but its under mild load (when engine, tyre & road noise doesn't drown it out) when first driving off that's it's most noticeable. Then usually disappears after about a minute of driving as it warms up.

Confusing the situation is a constant tick it also makes, most noticeable at idle, but which speeds up/down in time with revs, and occurs hot or cold. This sounds like it's coming from somewhere close to the emission control valve, as per: www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93441&page=1 (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93441&page=1), but I've disconnected that with no change and it also sounds like a slower tick than the faint ticking I can hear coming from the ECV.

I'll post back with anything further once it goes back in to the dealer on Friday.

Yep, I had the same elusive ticking sound on my 380 for years, and it definitely wasn't the emission control purge valve. I tried everything I could think of, different weight oils, oil additives, fuel additives, new injector spacers, lash adjuster air removal procedure, but nothing made any difference. Mal reckons it's probably worn cam followers and nothing can be done about it other that to renew the cam followers. Funny thing is my noise started around 30,000k, a bit early you would think for worn cam followers.

Well I picked up my 380 from the dealer earlier this week - no change at all to either the rattle at cold start (which is getting fainter as the weather is warming up anyway) or the constant ticking.

The dealer has now put it the too-hard-basket and decided they aren't going to do anything further - although they acknowledged the ticking but described it as "within tolerance". So basically I've had most of the hydraulic lash adjusters replaced with no improvement. At first I thought there was a slight reduction in cold start rattle noise, but I think that was just placebo.

It's so irritating I'm in two minds as to whether to sell the car or keep it. At the moment the wife and I have his and hers 380's and I've gotta sell one anyway as we just bought a new family truckster for her. Problem is the other one also has the cold start rattle (but not as bad), although no ticking, but it's not in as good condition paint and interior wise.

Has anyone's experience been that either the rattle type noise on start-up or ticking continues to get louder as km's get higher (mine are both at 76/77km)?

Well I picked up my 380 from the dealer earlier this week - no change at all to either the rattle at cold start (which is getting fainter as the weather is warming up anyway) or the constant ticking. The dealer has now put it the too-hard-basket and decided they aren't going to do anything further - although they acknowledged the ticking but described it as "within tolerance". So basically I've had most of the hydraulic lash adjusters replaced with no improvement. At first I thought there was a slight reduction in cold start rattle noise, but I think that was just placebo. It's so irritating I'm in two minds as to whether to sell the car or keep it. At the moment the wife and I have his and hers 380's and I've gotta sell one anyway as we just bought a new family truckster for her. Problem is the other one also has the cold start rattle (but not as bad), although no ticking, but it's not in as good condition paint and interior wise. Has anyone's experience been that either the rattle type noise on start-up or ticking continues to get louder as km's get higher (mine are both at 76/77km)?

My AWD still has lifter tick despite new lifters and the rockers/rails being cleaned. The only time it goes away is for the brief amount of time I run an engine flush through before an oil change. I've tried different weight oils following that lead but it still ticks.

The cold start rattle could be the pre tensioner or the fact the pulley on the tensioner arm was not set correctly.

Rattles Rhein the engine at certain road speeds? Probably a little hard to diagnose over an Internet forum. But, guessing here, the 380 isn't revving as hard as a Magna at those speeds, making your tick more audible? Sheer guess that one sorry.

I have the same issue with my car. The ticking/knocking noise occurs when cold only under load for 5mins until engine gets to operating temperature. Mitsubishi said it is piston slap, a mechanic friend said possibly gundgen pin. Its far more noticeable in the very cold winter mornings, less so know. It has been doing this for the last 30,000k.

My dilemma is to investigate it further. Mitsubishi said they can strip the motor down to check tolerances, however if its within spec they will put it back together. I am not sure if i could incur cost for this exercise if its within spec even with 2 months warranty left.

Is it really an issue, could a problem occur down the track outside warranty period.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

I have the same issue with my car. The ticking/knocking noise occurs when cold only under load for 5mins until engine gets to operating temperature. Mitsubishi said it is piston slap, a mechanic friend said possibly gundgen pin. Its far more noticeable in the very cold winter mornings, less so know. It has been doing this for the last 30,000k.

My dilemma is to investigate it further. Mitsubishi said they can strip the motor down to check tolerances, however if its within spec they will put it back together. I am not sure if i could incur cost for this exercise if its within spec even with 2 months warranty left.

Is it really an issue, could a problem occur down the track outside warranty period.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Likewise. My engine and drivetrain warranty runs out in 30K kms or end of July, 2015.

When cold only? Have you had simple things like your external belts checked, I have had cars make horrible noises when one of the belts is eiher too loose or gone too hard.

Mal, with mine, I had the pre-tensioner changed, had all belts that required changing changed and I still get it rattle/metal scraping sound on cold mornings/evenings cold starts. It all goes away after a minute or so.

I reckon we should do a group inspection for each state and get Mal to visit each state to check cars that have unusual and hard to diagnose sounds. What say you Mal? You will be paid ofcourse. :)

Piston slap, little end/gudgeon pin - both noises that, if anything, tend to get worse with temperature/increased RPM. This has been my experience at least.

The tensioner I pulled out of my AWD was an NTN unit and appeared to be in perfect condition. In my example I believe the fault was that the pulley on the tensioner arm was not set correctly. Replacing the timing belt and/or hydraulic tensioner without correcting this pre-tension wont make the noise go away.

+1 for what Mal has suggested. The plastic timing belt covers can amplify small sounds, I imagine a frayed belt flicking its way past the covers could sound worse or like an impending mechanical fault.

I was actually more referring to Power Steering Belt and Alt Belt. The Power Steering belt can make a horrible big end sort of noise with the way it echo's.

The sound in my car is not from the belts or tensioner. The tensioner was replaced when the cam belt was replaced 10000km ago.

When you ride the brake and throttle just off idle when cold, you can hear it coming from the engine block from the front cyclinder bank.

Which again points me to either the alt belt or the ps belt not being tensioned correctly certainly does not hurt to check

Hi all, thanks for all the further suggestions, as Skapper said, it's a bit hard to diagnose these sorts of things over a forum, but I think I'll go back to the non-Mitsubishi mechanic I trust and try to work through some of these suggestions and hopefully eventually track down the problem.

My ticking doesn't appear to be road speed related, except that too much road speed = tyre/wind noise drowns it out. Similarly with the rattle type sound from cold start, accelerating gently from standstill, it's noticeable in 1st, 2nd, slightly in 3rd, but certainly by the time it's in 4th, road noise is already too high and the engine isn't loaded enough if I just slow back down in 3rd/4th.

The ticking in mine sounds more like a metallic "clack" sound with the bonnet up (if that makes sense) - inside the car with the windows up, it seems to filter through to the cabin as a more distinct tick sound though. It seems to emanate from somewhere around the rocker cover on the rear cylinder bank, towards the opposite end to the belts (i.e. cylinder closer to the air intake), and listening to the alt/ps belts, there doesn't seem to be any unusual sounds coming from there. I'll certainly get the tension on those checked though as I try to work though the problem, and post back any results...

Cheers,
Adam.

Hi all, thanks for all the further suggestions, as Skapper said, it's a bit hard to diagnose these sorts of things over a forum, but I think I'll go back to the non-Mitsubishi mechanic I trust and try to work through some of these suggestions and hopefully eventually track down the problem.

My ticking doesn't appear to be road speed related, except that too much road speed = tyre/wind noise drowns it out. Similarly with the rattle type sound from cold start, accelerating gently from standstill, it's noticeable in 1st, 2nd, slightly in 3rd, but certainly by the time it's in 4th, road noise is already too high and the engine isn't loaded enough if I just slow back down in 3rd/4th.

The ticking in mine sounds more like a metallic "clack" sound with the bonnet up (if that makes sense) - inside the car with the windows up, it seems to filter through to the cabin as a more distinct tick sound though. It seems to emanate from somewhere around the rocker cover on the rear cylinder bank, towards the opposite end to the belts (i.e. cylinder closer to the air intake), and listening to the alt/ps belts, there doesn't seem to be any unusual sounds coming from there. I'll certainly get the tension on those checked though as I try to work though the problem, and post back any results...

Cheers,
Adam.

Again, you have described the exact same sound by old 380 made. Started at around 30,000k and gradually got a little louder, until I sold it at 146,xxxk.
I vote for Mal's diagnosis of worn cam followers.

My family must be diehard mitsy owners, we've had/have basicly every model and they've all been real good to us. My old man bought a 1998 Magna solara new, he regularly serviced it and sometimes myself and he treated it with that Long engine treatment Nulon E30 which lasts up to 80,000kms...it's sort of like slick 50. I was a little unsure about that product but he put it in to help reduce wear and tear etc...today my youngest brother owns it and it has a half million K's on the clock or more and still going strong, no dramas at all. My dad now owns one of the last magnas, a black VRX with about 200,sumthing thousand k's and occasionally it makes a loud ticking noise on cold start up, and so far it was diagnosed as some sort of 'oil not getting up to the top of the motor' type scenario. I don't know if it still happens anymore, I haven't noticed it doing it lately. I think this may be the case for some guys on here, when I think about it any oil in the head will drain back to the sump leaving little lubrication on start up, also I think if a vehicle is parked on a slope it could possibly amplify the problem, as well as your oil quality and viscosity. This is just an opinion and maybe some of you might experiment before doing more expensive procedures. My 380 is going very well, it did have a tick noise but it was the valve behind the intake manifold which I replaced, I bowed down to my dad's pressure and put that Nulon stuff in but I put HPR5 oil in my engine now, all good.

I finally solved my engine noise knock from a cold start. Mitsubishi stripped the motor down and found premature wear in one of the cylinders leading to piston slap. Engine was re-built under warranty. No more noise in the mornings.

It sounded like my noise was worse than others noted in this thread as it lasted at least 5 mins from start up. The Mitsubishi dealers initial diagnosis was correct.

@Madmagna and others:

Was told by a Mitsu service shop that my noise in my TJ VR-X, after I had a timing belt replaced @195,000 km, is due to two pulleys that need replacing. Claim that when replacing belt, they also replaced the tensioner... and that renewed tension has put the 'normal' load on the other pulley bearings. I said, why was this not picked up when they replaced the belt and tensioner? Answer was as above. Only after doing the first stage can the bad pulleys be detected.

So, car has to be booked in again, and I guess stripped down like a full timing belt replacement to replace pulleys. At my expense.

Views?

At our workshop we dont give an option for belt only.... everything gets replaced or the customer gets to go to some fly by night

has anyone got a picture of a brand new genuine tensioner? i think that the local mitsubishi dealers may be selling non-genuine ones (at genuine prices)

Your service shop should have replaced the pulleys at 200k regardless of condition given that they usually come with the kit anyway.

Ash, Mits do not have "Genuine" tensioners, there is no such thing, like everything else they are sourced from another company, we sell the "genuine" or NTN (which is what Mitsubihsi use) only we get them direct instead out of Mitsubishi thus we save a few $$ although there is not much in these

Ash, Mits do not have "Genuine" tensioners, there is no such thing, like everything else they are sourced from another company

Ok cool, i wasn't sure if they were selling a cheaper "alternative" or not. One of our suppliers makes up timing belt kits, and they also include an NTN tensioner (which looks the same as the mits supplied units).

Thanks guys.

My KJ Verada started doing exactly the same noises on start up at about 200K. Same as your audio recording. It goes away after a minute or so and worse in cold weather.
It became noisy after I installed my second complete timing belt kit with waterpump and new pulleys etc etc as it done 200K. Before that ran like a new car with NO noises on start up or anytime. I blamed the new tensioner of course but it was not. I put in a bottle of lifter cleaner and a few days later it went away completly. Qiuet as a mouse again on start up. Soon as I changed the oil next time it needed a service (Ive always used Mobil Synthetic 5W-40) it started again. It is the lifters definetly, in my case anyway. Appears the sound is coming from the timing belt area as well, very deceiving.

I've noticed mine making a growling noise when I put it into Drive on first start-up in the morning. Stays as I go down the driveway, is usually gone after a K or so. Tried the start-up / switch-off / wait / restart bit, still there.

Putting it in for a service some time in the next month or so, will get it investigated then...

That noise is often a loose or worn power steering or alt belt, Magna's do the same thing