So I changed my clutch and being it was already notchy when cold, so I thought I could benefit from the Nulon N70 additive. I have only seen positive commentary concerning the additive, so I can only think its related with the oil I used. Its Penrite Pro Gear 75-85 http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=4&id_products=375
Anyone had a similar experience with this oil? The clutch change went pretty smooth besides getting covered in oil, so am leaning towards it being the oil, but would be nice to see others thoughts.

Cheers

hmmm, about ready to put this oil in my gearbox today, if it comes up notchy ill let you know, and ill be staying away from penrite products all together, I've already had nothing but bad luck with their engine oil.

Nothing but bad luck with the engine oil, this is really a strange statement given that is all we use and many many times we have had cars come in with issues oil related, changed to Penrite and had the issues cured. What issues exactly have you had and add to this what grade did you use.

OP, we use the Nulon gear oil for no other reason again we have used it for years and found it to work well in Magna boxes. If you have a notchy gear change the chances are the box is at fault, you can try the Red Line as many have had improvement but as you know the only real cure for a worn gear box is repair.

Madmagna: I used that hpr 10 and the car went through half a sump of oil in 2 months, I used wyns engine flush first. the car has only 150k on it, and I assumed I had an oil leak, (no oil on the concrete) I couldn't find any oil leaks either, even after degreasing the engine, nothing. so, another engine flush, then changed to nulon semi syn and haven't used any oil and its been 3 months. idk its just my personal experience.

im not trying to bag out penrite or discourage people from using it btw :)

ok, my 2 cents on this gearbox oil, I find it quite good, not notchy at all, smooth selections, no additive.

Thanks for the replies.
Before I took the box out, I had a slightly iffy 2nd gear synchro and a notchy 1st and 2nd gear when cold (hardly bothered me and was still a very functional box). So being that its dramatically worse post changing the fluid and Ive seen nothing good about the N70, I got to consider the oil not doing me wonders.

I have read a lot about the Redline oil being great. Even some great words about the shockproof oils being great for worn synchros and notchy gearboxes. Then I read it kills boxes. So MTL vs MT90 and then the most expensive option but practical I guess considering it makes the right warm weight... mixing 50/50!
Any thoughts of your own Mal? I would be more than happy to be pushed towards one or the other!
Or considering they come in 946ml bottles, 2 bottles of one and one of the other. Question is... Do I want to lean towards the thicker or the thinner?

As for the Engine oil, my dad used Penrite on his customers cars for years and was very happy with them. Sounds really strange Ziek. Going from losing so much to losing nothing by simply changing oil :/ Ive seen cars losing a lot internally and zip externally, though never magically not losing a drop. I know thicker oil can slow down an internal leak, but never considered changing brands could stop it :|
On that topic, dealing with Mitsubishis Mal, if you have a car with stuffed valve stem seals and the customer doesnt want to change them... Is there anything you do about them to slow down the leaking oil from the head?

Would be good to know your findings Ziek :)

Cheers

I have penrite oil in my gearbox now and it is a little notchier then the redline but its barely noticable. Id say change it again and see if it improvew. Only way to know.

Changing a clutch plate will do nothing for a notchy gearbox unless the original clutch plate was warped and was dragging on the flywheel or pressure plate with the clutch pedal depressed.

Did you check the new clutch plate was a smooth sliding fit on the splines, and did you lube the splines with a light touch of grease before assembly? The new plate may be sticking to the clutch or flywheel surface if they weren't cleaned up properly. Test this by putting the car on a flat surface, engaging first gear, clutch down, then start the engine with all brakes off. If the car wants to creep forward, you know the clutch is dragging. If ok, it's probably worn synchros.

Engine flushes are mostly light weight hydrocarbons, if any are left behind they will evaporate from the fresh oil and show as a drop in oil level.
Some synthetics are known for loosing volume in use, but nothing as bad as half a sump in a few months.

My valve stem seals are not the best, but they are not drastic, its a weird problem my car has with oil, maybe mal knows what's going on there, it hasent bothered me too much, because I just changed to nulon oil and the problem stopped. I know, changing oils don't make sense unless its thicker, but the nulon oil is semi syn 15/40 and I use now wyns engine supreme now as well.

back to OP. my box was a little notchy 2nd-3rd with the old gearbox oil I used (nulon semi 75/80) when I changed to the penrite oil, no more notchy. maybe you would benefit from a different grade of oil??

Hmm, well thats a bit disheartening Hayden, Im really hoping its the oil! :/ I will have to change it anyway and see how I go following the test youve suggested Max. I did lightly grease it and the clutch slid on fine! The flywheel was very clean, I double checked! I will post back how the test goes.

While on the topic of engine flushes, are they supposed to release the carbon and other impurities that stick to the inside of the engine? And what is the main gain of this? Better lubrication?
I just changed my oil, so maybe next service! But want to take the best care possible! I had a Coopers filter lying around and couldnt bring myself to install it on my car. Waited for bursons to deliver me a Ryco. I dont know if there is a big difference, but for a few dollars, I dont want to mess around!

As long as you dont get a massive puff of blue smoke come out as you take off, you can pocket your money :P
What is the engine supreme about?

Lord how confusing is your experience! Well that is what Im wondering? Ive been told that a synchro works better when its not full of oil, so a thinner oil is better as far as synchro workings, but not sure about curing the notchiness. Did you go to the same oil as me? 75/85? If so, maybe you simply benefited from the thicker oil? Just speculating without having a clue :P

I went to the 75/80 oil semi syn, I thought it was the same as yours (my mistake) same weight that was already in the gearbox, just it was nulon semi syn. the engine flush is supposed to help with getting rid of any muck and tarnish in the engine, mine was pretty bad inside with sludge, its so much better now. the engine supreme is an oil conditioner of sorts, it says it supposed to help dissolve tarnish and sludge.

I went to the 75/80 oil semi syn, I thought it was the same as yours (my mistake) same weight that was already in the gearbox, just it was nulon semi syn. the engine flush is supposed to help with getting rid of any muck and tarnish in the engine, mine was pretty bad inside with sludge, its so much better now. the engine supreme is an oil conditioner of sorts, it says it supposed to help dissolve tarnish and sludge.
So any particular reason you went with the lighter weight? Im pretty decided on mixing two bottles with one bottle... just not sure whether to lean slightly heavier or slightly lighter than the recommended.
When you say it is so much better, are you rating it by the sound of it running? And Im having trouble deciphering the difference between the flush and conditioner. Does the conditioner stay in from service to service? Otherwise I havent a clue?
I have 180,000 on the clock now. Runs pretty smooth, but would love to make sure it stays that way for as long as possible :)

Madmagna: I used that hpr 10 and the car went through half a sump of oil in 2 months, I used wyns engine flush first. the car has only 150k on it, and I assumed I had an oil leak, (no oil on the concrete) I couldn't find any oil leaks either, even after degreasing the engine, nothing. so, another engine flush, then changed to nulon semi syn and haven't used any oil and its been 3 months. idk its just my personal experience.

im not trying to bag out penrite or discourage people from using it btw :)

ok, my 2 cents on this gearbox oil, I find it quite good, not notchy at all, smooth selections, no additive.

Sorry you are comparing a full syn with semi. Here is your issue

You say engine was full of sludge thus your stem seals are most likely no good coupled with full syn oil which will not absorb moisture which artificially keeps the level up thus the oil use

In your case semi syn is your best bet due to having a motor which uses oil well all motors do but I would say a previous owner has not cared as you do for the car thus the oil consumption. I see this all too often

yeah, I was thinking it was the difference between full syn, and semi syn mal, im slowly getting it nursed back to health, it doesn't blow smoke anymore (used to after idling for a few mins, then stab the throttle and it would puff out blue smoke). I pulled the sump off and cleaned that all out including the oil pickup filter. the worse place the sludge was, was in the heads, im not expecting the old girl to be back to the way she was before the sludge, but she is a good way there.

Shezza: I used the wyns engine flush just before changing the oil, pour it in, idle it for around 20mins (do not drive the car with the flush in), then dump the oil straight away, pour in new oil, new oil filter, and add the wyns engine supreme. I found the only place I could buy it here where I am is in Kmart.

when I said its much better, meaning its much cleaner inside, bugger all sludge. I haven't noticed it being quieter, but it was always a quiet engine.


BTW editing this post to thank mal for explaining the difference between full syn, and semi syn. explains why my car is doing what its doing.

Well that is definitely some interesting information! I didnt know that mineral oil absorbs and synth doesnt. Guess that helps make sense of why it lasts so much longer!
How blocked up was your pick up filter?
I know when I bought my car, I looked under the cap for sludge and checked the stick for tarnish and they were both spotless. My heads dont have any sludge either.
I wonder how conclusive the stick is though. As in does that translate to a virtually tarnish free engine as well?
Ill give the flush a go next service anyway, cant hurt! I went with 10/40 Synth just as a trial. Its Phoenix oil if anyones heard of them. So far, I have no complaints... See how my oil usage goes though.

Still looking for some opinions on which way to lean in my Redline oil mix of MTL with MT90 (or even open to advised to use just one) But doing 2/3 of one and 1/3 of the other is what Im thinking... Leaning towards 2/3 MTL and 1/3 MT90, but would like some support :)

I don't know what to say about your gearbox shezza, ive tried a thicker oil 80/90 semi with an oil conditioner and my gearbox came up notchy, then dropped to a 75/80 semi syn in nulon oil still with the nulon oil conditioner and it wasn't as notchy, then tried this penrite semi syn 75/80 with no conditioner and the gearbox is near on perfect. not all gearboxes are the same, in my experience its trial and error, hence the reason I don't buy $100-$140 oil bottles lol

Hmm, now youre making me wonder! I was set on Redline, but my old man insisted I didnt need to spend all that money and I should go with Penrite. So we made a deal... If it came up notchy like before, he would refund me the money to go and spend on the Redline oil. According to your experience, sounds like I really need to test without the N70. Damn it! Appreciate your input. It was only 38 for the 2.5l tin anyway and we are changing the oil on the iload which uses the same oil luckily and only takes 1.8ltrs.

So I went for the Redline MTL - MT90 mix in the end. 2/3 MTL and 1/3 MT90 (they come in quarts which is roughly 1/3rd of the filling requirement).
Definitely removed the super stiff cold changes and is generally a bit less notchier! All up, one happy chappy! Thanks for all the input

I tried a few oils in my Ralliart's gearbox. The Redline MT90 was the only one that smoothed out the cold temperature notchiness. Definitely the best in the Magna manual gearboxes. Just WAY overpriced in Australia but I guess we get used to being ripped off don't we.?

About $30 for 4 quarts (just under 4 litres) in US, $100 in Aus.

I believe I have valvoline oil in my gearbox probably is a bit notchy, where can you buy this redline stuff from?

Over priced, yes. Though in a worn box... the "over" kind of price is the only price worth paying it seems!
Bursons wanted some ridiculous amount! I bought 3 quarts for 88$ shipped on Ebay.
Not sure how MT-90 alone would have worked out in my car... Though I saw a lot of posts suggesting I need lighter stuff for the notchiness and my worn synchro.
There is a thread you can find through google search where a few people recommend the Castrol-VMX. Also dear though...

http://s14.postimg.org/55r7w11bh/DSCN3040.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/55r7w11bh/)

http://s14.postimg.org/sl951dl2l/DSCN3045.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/sl951dl2l/)

When engauging a gear the syncro sleeve makes contact with the baulk ring (brass part) first to match the speed of the gear to the speed of the shaft it is freewheeling on. Then it slides further over to lock the shaft and gear together. It relies on friction to match the speeds. If you have an oil that is too thick or you have put in a special addititive that make the oil more slipperely then there will be less friction to brings the shaft and gear to the same speed and it will take longer (hence the notchy gear change, esp when oil is cold and thick).

I always thought that Mitsubishi manual gearboxes used an oil specific to them, hence Castrol VMX. Most gear box oils you buy are GL5 and have friction modifiers in them for hypoid differentails. The Mitsubishi oil is GL4 and gives better syncroniser performance.

I understand that GL5 is not recommended as the sulfur in it eats at the brass synchros? I used the recommended oil and had problems... Though maybe it was the Nulon additive? It was so well spoken for and I knew my gearbox was far from perfect.
Truth be told, the gearbox was better before I changed the clutch. Maybe Im settling because its so much better than the Penrite with Nulon G70? You got me thinking... Though Im spending too much on oil here :P
It reminds me of my Cressida. When I changed the oil, the transmission went nuts. And its much harder to go wrong with ATF.

I tried the VMX in my Ralliart, no change. Went to i think Castrol Syntrans, a bit better (but expensive). Redline I bought off EBay for about $95 delivered for 4 quarts (about 3.8l). Much better although not perfect. Only a box rebuild would completely fix it. Good enough though.