Two months ago Danny3.0 gave an interesting explanation as to how he changed his wave spring.

It was a For Sale post (actually a giveaway); I'd like to see it transferred to this forum.

I've been wondering if anyone followed his example & how they got on.
Or if anyone got it done by an auto specialist (or got a quote) what was the cost.

Not sure what Danny3.0 has said, but I did ask about DIY changing the wavespring in this thread http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93744&highlight=

For those who tl;dr - summary is that it is just about impossible to do without both taking apart the box and the right tools & skills that only a transmission specialist would have.

If you can replace a gearbox yourself and have some time on your hands, then the cheapest option is to buy a 2nd hand gearbox and take a punt. Plenty of magnas in the wreckers and they're usually pretty cheap. Otherwise pay the cash to a good repair shop and have a trouble free transmission after that.

I wouldn't say it's just about impossible. Although I have knowledge about how a auto transmition works untill I replaced that wave spring I had never worked on a auto trans before. You don't need any special tools except for when it comes time to fit the center cog (actual name escapes me) which needs to be pressed in whilst installing a circlip which takes alot of force. If you good with your hands it can be done, but I wouldn't try it unless you sure about exactly what to do. Defiantly a cheaper option that replacing the box that might have the prone to failure spring and much cheaper that paying to have it done.

I did a lot of reserch before I did this, there is a service manual for these transmition a on the net which is helpfull.

Haven't done it myself but was quoted $1,850 by a local auto trans specialist to replace the broken wavespring in my KJII Verada. And no warranty on the work by the way.

I got the wave spring washer replaced with the revised unit, new internal filter, some seals and a trans flush for $1150 at a reputable auto trans specialist. , last year. KJII AWD.

Wow, $1850 that's extream, had your trans already failed due to a broken spring?? My total cost was $102 which was for 2x 5L mitsi trans fluid, new wave spring, sealant, and 12 hours of my time. A pro should be able to do it in half or less time than me...

I've been quoted $780 to change the wavespring on my KJ2.
Price includes all parts except ATF which I would supply genuine stuff.

I was told the transmission does not need to come off the car.

Is it worth doing as a preventative measure?

I've talked to a few transmission specialists, and some say that almost all failures they've seen were attributed to the wave spring, and others say they only account for about 25% of 3rd gen transmission failures.
If its just 25% then maybe preventative replacement is not worth it. However if it accounts for 90% of failures then definitely worthwhile to replace.

When we did the poll a while back i didnt think there were that many spring failures compared to the number of members, so i got the impression it wasnt happening as frequently as was feared. But yeah, catastrophic when it does.

My view was not worth worrying about and if/when it happens do a rebuild then.

I am interested in the idea of servicing the tranny tho; especially replacing seals and filter, but i thought it had to be removed from the car to do that, but Danny seems to have found it can be done in place?

When we did the poll a while back i didnt think there were that many spring failures compared to the number of members, so i got the impression it wasnt happening as frequently as was feared. But yeah, catastrophic when it does.

My view was not worth worrying about and if/when it happens do a rebuild then.

I am interested in the idea of servicing the tranny tho; especially replacing seals and filter, but i thought it had to be removed from the car to do that, but Danny seems to have found it can be done in place?

No, people stated that most were from the Wave spring but MOST would not have had a clue as I can bet my last $$ that most did NOT have the trans removed, dismantled and confirm that it was actually part of the spring that caused pump failure and not something else

Sorry but I am in the 25% bucket here. I DO see many of these transmissions, I dont pull them all apart but in general when you drop the fluid and see metal flakes through the fluid this leads to Planetary Gear failure which can also then lead to oil pump failure.

Remember that these boxes are no less reliable than most others it is just we do not talk about others BECAUSE we are a Mits forum. When I speak to a few trans specialists I deal with they all state they dont see any more Magna trans with issues than they see others like ford or holden in cars our ages.

IF you want to pay to get the wave spring done then certainly do for it, it can not hurt and especially in a 5sp auto is not such a bad thing as you know there is a weak point BUT dont just do it because all the others tell you to do this.

Spring can be done in car BUT filter is a pull front casing off trans to do thus has to be removed. Servicing just a normal flush when the fluid starts to turn is what is needed and I can not put enough recommendation into using an external filter and cooler kit

Mal why do you say "especially in the 5 speed auto"?
Do the 4 speeds and 5 speeds share the same oil pump and/or planetary gears?

Personally, if I had a 4 speed I would not bother doing this as they are commonly found for cheap.
Owning a 5 speed though, I know if it fails I will have a hard time finding a replacement, and it will cost me a lot especially if I need it ASAP

The share some parts, others are different. THe 5sp auto does suffer more as it has a lot more gear in what is almost the same crammed spaced and does seem to suffer from heat a lot more than the 4sp auto's

It is my opinion (and is only an opinion based on what I have seen over the years) that the 5 sp benefits from a cooler more than the 4sp, I think heat is the main killer of the wave spring initially as well as the fact that people seem to stick to the km travelled more than they do the condition of the fluid, once fluid starts to get dirty lubrication suffers as does the transmission in general

I can not put enough recommendation into using an external filter and cooler kit

Do you have a kit that you recommend, (or sell) or just troll ebay for one?
Example = http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/19-ROW-AN-10AN-ENGINE-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-RELOCATION-FILTER-KIT-silver-B-/281226915223?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
Any recommendation re number of rows of cooler etc?
I'm cheap, but she's the only car I've got, and I don't like walking!

Do you have a kit that you recommend, (or sell) or just troll ebay for one?
Example = http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/19-ROW-AN-10AN-ENGINE-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-RELOCATION-FILTER-KIT-silver-B-/281226915223?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
Any recommendation re number of rows of cooler etc?
The cooler in that link wouldn't be suitable for a 5-speed, as the hoses don't bolt on - on Magnas & Veradas they're pushed on and held in place by hose clamps. Not sure if you could use the filter adaptor, as it looks like the setup is intended for a transmission that already has an external filter.

FWIW, I made my own using two 2nd Gen transmission oil coolers. Together, those cost $50 from a wrecker. I added a bypass thermostat for another $50 or so. For details, see: http://www.4shared.com/office/Bsu_uonN/TW_VR-X_AWD_Transmission_Oil_C.html. So far, I've done in excess of 80,000km with the coolers, including 27,000km towing a caravan all around Australia. The only issue I ever had was shortly after adding the bypass thermostat (which I did a bit over a year ago) - I'd damaged one of the hoses while fitting it and the hose developed a leak. Minus 4 litres of oil later the tranny stopped working. Fix split & add 4 litres. Everything's been fine ever since.

Macropod, do you know if the TW and KJ front end is the same for fitting these coolers?

They're pretty much the same. And, unless you have a VRX (as I do), it should be even simpler, since you should be able to remove the grilles without removing the bumper.

I had a good look at your write up on the installation. It seems wrong and illogical to me the way you have the hoses connected.
You are essentially bypassing both the radiator cooler and the additional coolers until the ATF reaches the preset TruCool temperature.
But the idea of the radiator cooler is not just to cool down the ATF, but to also warm it up faster when it is cold for maximum efficiency.

To me, the correct way to plumb it would be from transmission, to radiator cooler, to TruCool thermostat which would either direct it back to the transmission if the oil is cool enough, or it would direct it via the external cooler if it too hot.
This seems like it would have the benefit of warming up the fluid when too cool, or cooling it down when too hot, essentially getting as close as possible to maintaining the ideal ATF temperature.

I had a good look at your write up on the installation. It seems wrong and illogical to me the way you have the hoses connected.
To each their own. Mine's the way it is so that, if the oil gets over-cooled by the external coolers, the radiator one will warm it up again and, conversely, if it's still not cool enough, will get a little more cooling. Having taken careful note of how long it takes the transmission to warm up (by watching how long it takes for the tacho:road speed relationship to match normal conditions) I doubt running it through the radiator beforehand would reduce the warm up-time. If anything, it warms up more quickly this way - especially in Canberra's winters where the radiator might be starting with sub-zero temperatures.

PS: In any event, completely shutting off all external cooling is how the bypass thermostat is meant to work - they're designed for use in cold regions (e.g. Canada) - perhaps because in real life the transmission oil normally heats up faster than the coolant in the radiator.

I sell Derale units, they are about $115 each as are the filter Kits

With the 5sp auto there is a spot on the trans ideal for fitting of the filter assy, the trans cooler fits in front of the radiator and is actually attached to the air con condenser so is an easy fit but still requires access to both sides of the aircon condenser. You can remove thermo fans and then push radiator back enough to do this

Macropod, from what I understand the ideal ATF temperature is pretty much the same as the engine temperature (around 80 degrees C). Wouldn't that mean it would be good for the ATF to pass through the radiator no matter what?
I have no idea how long it takes for the ATF to warm up with or without the radiator pass.

Madmagna, do you sell kits with brackets etc for the 3rd gen?
And, would it be best to use a TruCool thermostat and slightly larger than necessary cooler, meaning the ATF temp would always be "ideal"?

Macropod, from what I understand the ideal ATF temperature is pretty much the same as the engine temperature (around 80 degrees C). Wouldn't that mean it would be good for the ATF to pass through the radiator no matter what?
Agreed re the ideal temperature, which is why I use the present setup - it keeps the ATF temperature in the 'goldilocks' range and gets it there sooner than it might otherwise do. It's no good overcooling the ATF, which is exactly what one risks in a Canberra winter with an auxiliary cooler, especially one that's plumbed in after the built-in one.

I assume that with a very small auxiliary cooler there isn't such a risk as it will only just drop the temperature a bit lower than it would normally be, but when going big cooler (or twin like your setup) you'd really need the bypass valve.

Another thought crossed my mind, the ATF radiator cooler is at the bottom, and I assume that the flow of coolant is from top to bottom so where the ATF cooler is, the coolant should be at a lower temperature than that of the engine as it's been cooled down by the radiator?
I am not sure on this, just an assumption

I assume that with a very small auxiliary cooler there isn't such a risk as it will only just drop the temperature a bit lower than it would normally be, but when going big cooler (or twin like your setup) you'd really need the bypass valve.
But then you also wouldn't be able to get the full benefit of the larger cooler you might need to cool the ATF effectively for towing a heavy trailer/van in hot conditions (like this week)...

Yes of course, though I meant it from a personal perspective where I neither tow anything nor drive fast, so just a small additional cooler to drop the temperature down a bit would suffice.
Of course, when I go to the effort of installing a cooler I will get a large one with a bypass valve just for peace of mind

I have had a gauge on a trans for a few months and regardless of what we did the trans temp was consistent. With cooler removed the temps often spiked

Mal, what cooler was this, and was there a bypass thermostat installed?

What would happen when driving on a highway, empty car and really cold weather outside, would the ATF temp drop beyond what it should?

I have had a gauge on a trans for a few months and regardless of what we did the trans temp was consistent. With cooler removed the temps often spiked

Can you elaborate on this. What size cooler is it and how is it plumbed in (before or after rad, bypass valve etc) and temps/driving conditions. Thanks

I don't know whether all TR and TS v6 cars had a cooler, but my TS Advance had a cooler and I think there was cooling in the radiator also. There was simple plumbing, no temp measurement and no shut off. Is this not all that is needed?
Maybe it is simply cost cutting, but why did Mitsubishi drop the external filter on later 3rd gens.
Anyone who has fitted an external cooler- how much debris does it collect. Would frequent changing/flushing not be adequate?
John

Maybe it is simply cost cutting, but why did Mitsubishi drop the external filter on later 3rd gens.
Anyone who has fitted an external cooler- how much debris does it collect. Would frequent changing/flushing not be adequate?
John

I think the main reason they dropped the cooler was to save on costs. I also think the reason they dropped the filter and changed the serviced interval to 100k was to make the car more appealing to fleet buyers (ie. cheaper to service over the life of the car), they would most likely have gotten rid of the car by the time the expensive servicing was due and it was now the 2nd owners problem. Plus the transmission would be unlikley to fail within the first 100k due to not changing the oil, even though it may cause problems later in the car's life (once again not the fleet owners problem).

I fitted a Magnefine inline filter to my TJ and it seems to collect a reasonable amount of debris over a couple of years, similar to what you'd find in an engine oil filter. I also fitted a cooler from a 2nd gen (plumbed in before the radiator) and this seems to keep the oil in good condition for about 3 years/45,000km. It doesn't stay red like new oil but it certainly does not turn dark like it did before I fitted it, the transmission shifts smoothly even when warmed up (prior to the cooler the shifts were only smooth when the oil was still cool, but only while the oil was relativley fresh).

People usually put inline filters before the cooler so no debris should get into it

People usually put inline filters before the cooler so no debris should get into it

Passages in the cooler are large enough to handle debris, therefore the filter goes after the cooler to catch anything that may come away from the cooler. This means the last step before returning the oil to transmission is to filter it. Kind of like a quality gate.

I thought to safeguard the cooler the filter would be before it?

From what I remember if you get a transmission shop to rebuild a busted transmission they will put an inline filter after your cooler to catch anything that may have gotten in there from the transmission blowing up.

That makes sense, though when installing a brand new cooler on a transmission that hasn't had a need for a rebuild then it should be before the cooler I assume?

With cooler removed the temps often spiked
I wonder if the spikes pose any problems to the transmission or if the real threat is just to the ATF?

Could these spikes in temp over time lead to pump, spring or other component failures?
Or is the quality of the ATF the prime factor?
I'm curious as to what happens to the quality of ATF when repeatably heated to, say, 100c?