Hi Guys & Gals,
Just wondering since these cars Have a Lovely Double Negative where to hook the Highbeam Conection for My new LED lightbar on My Tf?

Any help would be Great.

Cheers

Daza

There is a fuse in the engine compartment for the highbeams. Get an add-a-circuit fuse tap and then remove the existing fuse, plug the fuse tap in and replug the existing fuse into the bottom slot of the fuse tap and then insert a new fuse (suitable for your driving lights) into the top slot. You may, depending on the fuse box, need to cut a vertical slot in the fuse box cover to allow the cable to come out without being squashed. Then run this down to your two driving lights.

What is a double negative? Something must switch it at the high beam globes... And whatever that is, why can't that be used to switch a relay? I'm assuming I'm missing something, but wouldn't have a clue what it is... Would love to see your light bar installed on the car!

Double negative as in negatively switched at the relay and negative ground at the light bulbs. Daza888, I forgot to mention that you should also get a relay and feed the cable from the fuse tap into pin 85 of the relay and ground pin 86. You should then get a feed directly from the +ve terminal of the battery with an inline fuse to pin 30 and then feed the driving lights from pin 87. Let me know and I will draw up a diagram for you.

Just had a look at the fusebox diagram. So standing in the front of the car and counting from the back to front and left to right, 1 and 2 (red) are tail/parkers, 3 and 4 (red) are low beams and 5 and 6 (blue) are the high beams. The first row has relays. Just need to tap into one of the fuses unless you want to run the two sides separately.

Hi Vlad,
I have the rest of it wired up to all areas, relay power switch earth etc, just when went to hook it up to the highbeam so it's legal,

Where do you get the bit you speak of?
Cheers
Daza

Hi Vlad,
I have the rest of it wired up to all areas, relay power switch earth etc, just when went to hook it up to the highbeam so it's legal,

Where do you get the bit you speak of?
Cheers
Daza

Ebay or perhaps jaycar etc. However, ones in jaycar are not the add-a-circuit type, just a plain fuse tap so get 1 10amp one or two 10amp ones if you want to separate the left and right ones.

Standard Jaycar one (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SF5110) or the mini one (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SF5120).

The Jaycar one if probably fine as you will only be using that to switch a relay and not power things so should be protected by onboard 10amp fuse. The add-a-circuit ones are only if you want to have a different rated fuse to tap off the same car circuit.

Ebay single item (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Add-A-Circuit-Fuse-Tap-for-Mini-APM-ATM-Automotive-Fuse-/330894056884?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0ad29db4)

Ebay twin items. (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-Blade-Fuse-Tap-Holder-Add-A-Circuit-Line-ATM-APM-Car-Truck-with15A-Mini-Fuse-/160993233161?pt=AU_Boat_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257bf1c909)

i have always run myn through to activate the relay from the actual high beam socket. It can be done and i cant remember the exact diagram to do it but virtually you are running the relay backwards. This way was only recently done on AWD juniors car as well

Tania, you could use a crimper to tap into the +ve of the highbeams at the back of the light but it is safer to do it via the fuse and relay combo. Even then, I would still use a relay to draw power from the battery and the highbeam tap to charge the relay.

but i am only using the high beam wire to trip the relay not drawing power through it to feed the lights

but i am only using the high beam wire to trip the relay not drawing power through it to feed the lights

sorry tania, for some reason i went blank and did not read the "activate relay".

The "double negative" system means that the lights on/off switch on your stalk earths the HB and LB relays (which are badly named really, since the LB relay also powers the HB filaments in the outer lights on Magna, the HB relay only powers the inner lights), providing 12V to your globes (to the common pin on the double-filament globes). The globes are then earthed through the HB/LB selector on your stalk. So, to trigger your additional lights relay, you need to provide 12V to the relay (switching circuit) which earths to any of the red wires behind your lights (these are the earth wires for HB). Then, via a suitable fuse possibly in an in-line holder, you need to source 12V direct from the battery through the switched circuit on the relay to your lights. Basically, the Magna's HB circuit provides an earth for your relay rather than 12V as in 'normal' cars!

Not sure where to source the 12V switching power from, you could possibly tap it from the 12V side of any of the globes (Yellow/Red,Green/Red,White/Red or Red/Blue...NOT Red/White which is LB earth) but depending on the relay's switching circuit resistance it could overload the fuse. Probably best to tap into the relay side of any of the two 10A HB fuses or 15A LB fuses with a separate inline fuse.

NOTE: The above wire colours etc. is based on TH/TJ, not sure if TF is different.

As I said before, either use two fuse taps to tap into both hb fuses to trigger two relays (one for lhs and one for rhs) or crimp into the dedicated hb +ve wires on both sides to trigger the two relays. in each instance, connect the trigger wire to pin 85 of the relays and ground pin 86. Then hooh up two wires to +ve of battery and connect to pin 86 of each relay and then connect pin 87 of each relay to the driving lights' +ve wires and ground the -ve wires of the driving lights.

this way, when you turn on the hbs, they charge the coils in the relays which closes the switch/circuit of the driving lights.

I ve done it by tapping into parker wires on my old ks v6xi to trigger after market fog lights and tapping into the parker fuses on current car to trigger DRLs.

If op wants, can pass both wires from pin 87 of the relays to the cabin to a switch so they can be independently switched off and then back out to the +ve of the driving lights.

So Vlad,
If i get the Wire tap and Hook the Rest of the Wiring for the Light bar to it i should be sweet?
The rest of it is a wiring loom that i bought and made a few modifications to suit the LED. The light bar is 40 leds 120 watt.
bought it off ebay from a seller in Melbourne i believe it looks better and will work better then Conventional Driving Lights
cheers
Daza

So Vlad,
If i get the Wire tap and Hook the Rest of the Wiring for the Light bar to it i should be sweet?
The rest of it is a wiring loom that i bought and made a few modifications to suit the LED. The light bar is 40 leds 120 watt.
bought it off ebay from a seller in Melbourne i believe it looks better and will work better then Conventional Driving Lights
cheers
Daza
where abouts are you? maggie3.5 aka mike or myself can have a look at the loom. as long as that part is ok then tapping either to fuse or hb wire for trigger is fine. btw are the leds from bright light auto parts by any chance?

If it's a negative trigger, id take the constant live and negative switching wire from behind the left high beam globe and connect them to the relays solenoid. Then take a live with a decent gauged wire coming from the battery and run it across the relay. Too easy really!

If it's a negative trigger, id take the constant live and negative switching wire from behind the left high beam globe and connect them to the relays solenoid. Then take a live with a decent gauged wire coming from the battery and run it across the relay. Too easy really!

The only concern I'd have with this (and I agree it's the simplest option) is that the brightness of the globe might be affected, since the relay is basically in parallel with the globe, or that the fuse might overload. Definitely worth the experiment though, worst case scenario is a blown fuse.

The only concern I'd have with this (and I agree it's the simplest option) is that the brightness of the globe might be affected, since the relay is basically in parallel with the globe, or that the fuse might overload. Definitely worth the experiment though, worst case scenario is a blown fuse.
the relay coil does not draw enough current to cause the light it is tapping off to go dim, again for fuses. if rrally pedantic about it then use the add-a-circuit fuse tap with separate fuse plugged into the hb fusebto trigger the relay. in each case the additional lights, be it leds or halogen should draw power directly from battery via inline fuse. i have said this lots of times already. perhaps i should post up a diagram tonight.

You aren't running it off the same power source as the high beams. You're wiring it's own live which needs it's own inline fuse. It just uses the high beams to switch it. How are you mounting the bar anyway? Do you have a driving lights bracket? And how many watts is it anyway?

Hi All,
Vlad if you can put the Wiring Diagram up would be great. I went to Jaycar and got the bit wired it in and was getting the same result as before. Turned the fuse around and Cooked the Relay and all.
I will be re wiring the lot as i didn't like the feel of the of the Wiring kit that was supplied as was 3mm wire 40 amp fuse 40 amp relay.

Shezza I have a ECB Bullbar on the car so mounted the Light bar off that. Is a 120 watt 40 Led Light bar same as this one.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/24-120W-LED-WORK-LIGHT-BAR-FLOOD-BEAM-ALLOY-4WD-UTE-DRIVING-LAMP-SAVE-ON-180W-/261137409012?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccd00a3f4&_uhb=1

Now Vlad i have the switch wired up to the relay and Earthed. had the relay earthed and power to the relay via a fuseable link. and the wires running to the Lightbar, and the trigga Point.

The switch is 6 mm wire. and will be wiring the rest of it all with the same.
Thanks again for all the help.

dazza, will post it later but first, do you have one or two light bars so i can do it correctly.

Vlad i have the one.
I think 80 % of the problem tonight was the relay in the wiring kit was a all in one type. I am going to take the wiring out of my old TE and put in the TF.

Is it blowing instantly? 40amp fuses and relays are well sufficient and 3mm should cover you as well. If it doesn't even light up, you're wiring it up with a short.
Wonder how well this light bar performs... What is its strong point supposed to be? I imagine you'll get better speed for your peripheral vision. Please do post pics of how it looks mounted as well as its lighting power... If you could be bothered, would be awesome to see before and after light spread :)

Dazza, did a mockup with MSPaint as I do not have Visio at home. Anyhow, here it is.

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab124/vbednikov/Fog%20Light%20Mod/driving-lights_zps5d7ac663.png

Note I have used the add-a-circuit fuse tap in the diagram. You could use the normal fuse tap from JayCar as well, especially if you are not going to fit the isolation switch in the cabin. Those LEDs draw 16A at 12V so a 20A inline fuse should be adequate enough to protect the circuitry and the relay should be rated at least 20A.

Any questions, please let me know.

Awesome diagram Vlad! Adding the switch is a great idea as well! Any thoughts as to why they claim it to draw 16A when their wattage suggests it draws 10A. Realistically, it'll be closer to 14v which suggests around 8.5A.

Awesome diagram Vlad! Adding the switch is a great idea as well! Any thoughts as to why they claim it to draw 16A when their wattage suggests it draws 10A. Realistically, it'll be closer to 14v which suggests around 8.5A.
Not sure there. Plenty of them are like that. Could be quoting nominal in one area and max in another etc.

So, in summary, always isolate the source with a relay and source power from the battery instead of piggy backing on it directly for power, unless it is very low current draw like my reverse camera and reverse sensor controller where the delay on relay draws power from the reverse light for both the coil pin and the feed pin.

I guess that makes sense! They are probably trying to advertise it on the lower end of its consumption.
What exactly is the purpose of your delay on relay?

I had a question about your diagram... Isn't the fuse constantly live? As in - doesn't the 86 pin need to be connected to the high beam negative trigger wire? If not, what is switching it besides the in line switch? Assuming I'm missing something as your the electronics whiz here... But if I don't understand, I'm not learning anything :)

I guess that makes sense! They are probably trying to advertise it on the lower end of its consumption.
What exactly is the purpose of your delay on relay?
That was to prevent the 7" screen and the reversing sensor beeping as I shift past R when going to D or back to P. It waits roughly 0.75 seconds before charging the coil to trip the switch.

I had a question about your diagram... Isn't the fuse constantly live? As in - doesn't the 86 pin need to be connected to the high beam negative trigger wire? If not, what is switching it besides the in line switch? Assuming I'm missing something as your the electronics whiz here... But if I don't understand, I'm not learning anything :)

Those fuses are not constantly live. When you turn on the HB, the coil will be charged and trips the switch in the relay to turn on the additional driving lights. Without the additional switch, the LED lightbar will come on/off with the HBs.

Put simply, when electricity flows (I am not talking about current flow), it comes in on the left leg of the fuse tap and out on the right leg of the fuse tap. The fuse tap consists of two parallel circuits, the blue would be the original to allow electricity to flow to the main HBs, and the red which would allow the electricity to flow to pin 85 and then out to ground on pin 86. When the coil is charged, the switch in the relay is closed allowing electricity to flow from the battery, via an inline fuse to pin 30 and then out from pin 87 to the LED bar.

Vlad, if my interpretation of the circuit diagram is correct (and it very likely isn't) I think your diagram might be incorrect with respect to the earth at pin 86 on the relay. Both HB and LB relays are live when the lights are on, the HB/LB selector stalk alternates the earth for the globes. I'm pretty sure if the lights were wired this way the light bar would not be linked to the high beams and would glow on low beam as well (so long as the inline switch was on). If the earth at pin 86 ran to the earth side of any of the HB globes or filaments it would work correctly, since this would provide the earth only when HB is selected.

Below is how I think the circuit should be, superimposed on the circuit diagram for the lights (blue/red is what I've added):

http://s21.postimg.org/72712ltjn/Spots_Circ.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/72712ltjn/)

The red wire is the critical one, this triggers the relay only when HB is on. Apologies if I've misinterpreted your diagram or misunderstand the Mitsu one. I've also left off the inline switch by mistake, this would be fitted as per your diagram on the line leading to pin 85.

(Note: The trigger circuit [pin 85/86] could also span the dash light in the combination meter, shown at the left side of the diagram above. This might be a better access point if you want to have the switch inside the cabin somewhere.)

Shezza, The Ebay Link on Here has a picture of it and the light spread etc.

Vlad, i have figured that the reason it did what it did last night was 1 the relay was a all in one type if you know what i mean? and i had the Relay earthed and the switch fused.
I don't think i need to earth the Switch this time???
I will use the wire from the switch and hook it to 85 with a link to the tap in etc and follow the rest of the diagram.
you say with the double one to use a 10 amp and a 5 amp fuse? should i replace it with a 15 amp fuse if i just get the tap in??

Vlad, if my interpretation of the circuit diagram is correct (and it very likely isn't) I think your diagram might be incorrect with respect to the earth at pin 86 on the relay. Both HB and LB relays are live when the lights are on, the HB/LB selector stalk alternates the earth for the globes. I'm pretty sure if the lights were wired this way the light bar would not be linked to the high beams and would glow on low beam as well (so long as the inline switch was on). If the earth at pin 86 ran to the earth side of any of the HB globes or filaments it would work correctly, since this would provide the earth only when HB is selected.

Below is how I think the circuit should be, superimposed on the circuit diagram for the lights (blue/red is what I've added):

http://s21.postimg.org/72712ltjn/Spots_Circ.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/72712ltjn/)

The red wire is the critical one, this triggers the relay only when HB is on. Apologies if I've misinterpreted your diagram or misunderstand the Mitsu one. I've also left off the inline switch by mistake, this would be fitted as per your diagram on the line leading to pin 85.

(Note: The trigger circuit [pin 85/86] could also span the dash light in the combination meter, shown at the left side of the diagram above. This might be a better access point if you want to have the switch inside the cabin somewhere.)

ensoniq, yours is not right. fjrst of all, you are tapping the lb fused line, secondly fuses 5 and 6 only have power when the hbs are on. have tested that yonks ago, likewise the parker fuses 1 and 2 and lb fuses 3 and 4. 3 and 4 may also have power when the hbs are on. basically ive tapped into the parkers to turn off the drls via nc relay the same way i am suggesting to tap into the hb fuse with no relay to turn on aux lights.

btw daza, the right pin of the hb fuses are +ve when looking from the front of the car so need to have the fuse tap with the tail on the left.

Hmm, that means the circuit diagram supplied with the PDF manual is wrong, since this clearly shows that both HB & LB relays operate in unison. It also shows that the HB filament in the outer lights is actually powered by the 15A "Low beam" fuses and relay. I'll get my multimeter out and check my car tomorrow, if the diagram's wrong I need to know so I don't stuff up any wiring myself. Apologies for adding to the confusion!

Hmm, that means the circuit diagram supplied with the PDF manual is wrong, since this clearly shows that both HB & LB relays operate in unison. It also shows that the HB filament in the outer lights is actually powered by the 15A "Low beam" fuses and relay. I'll get my multimeter out and check my car tomorrow, if the diagram's wrong I need to know so I don't stuff up any wiring myself. Apologies for adding to the confusion!

ensoniq, the pdf is correct. i also have the full set. you can see that fuses 5 and 6 are dedicated ones that only power the H1 bulbs whereas fuses 3 and 4 are for the LBs in the H4 bulbs as well as the HBs in the H4 bulbs, hence they are 15amps instead of 10 amps.

If you want to add aux lights that come on/off with HBs then tap into fuses 4 or 5. If you want to add aux lights that come on/off with parkers then tap into fuses 1 or 2. If however, you want to add aux lights that come on/off with LBs then you will need to tap into one of each of 3 or 4 and 5 or 6. tap off 3 or for with no relay and then tap off 5or 6 with nc relay. basically, say, 3 into pin 85 of no relay and ground pin 86 of no relay. feed +ve battery via inline fuse to pin 30 of no relay and connect 87 of no relay to pin 30 of nc relay and then connect pin 87a of nc relay to lights. meanwhile, connect pin 85 of nc relay to fuse 5 and ground pin 86 of nc relay. this is pretty much what I did with my drls. timer no relay to ignition fuse (in cabin) and nc relay to parker 1 fuse.

edit.just had another look at that pdf diagram and i see where the confusion lies. the hb and lb relays do have a common exit at point A but via a harness plug B74. that most likely has two two going into different pins.

Shezza, The Ebay Link on Here has a picture of it and the light spread etc.

Vlad, i have figured that the reason it did what it did last night was 1 the relay was a all in one type if you know what i mean? and i had the Relay earthed and the switch fused.
I don't think i need to earth the Switch this time???
I will use the wire from the switch and hook it to 85 with a link to the tap in etc and follow the rest of the diagram.
you say with the double one to use a 10 amp and a 5 amp fuse? should i replace it with a 15 amp fuse if i just get the tap in??

daza, sorry did not see this before on phone. to my knowledge, using higher fuse to protect two differing rated items on the same circuit is not ideal. If say 12 amps come along the fuse will not pop but the H1 HBs may. the relay coil should be able to handle quite high currents. check it specs for both coil and switch ratings.

if you already bought the one from jaycar then try the 10A first. If tat keeps blowing then try 15A. If the HBs then start to go, you will need the add-a-circuit ones.
basically current is combined in parallel and voltage is combined in series. that is, two parallel circuits each drawing 1A from a battery will actually draw 2A. a circuit with two items each requiring 6 volts will draw 12 from a battery. so say two bulb, each need 6V and 1A, in series will need 12V at 1A and in parallel will need 6V at 2A.

Understood re the 10A fuses powering the inner single-filament lights and the 15A fuses powering the outer, dual-filament bulbs (which is why I figured it was ok to tap into this wire since it supplies both HB/LB to the outer lights), but surely this means that both relays MUST operate in unison (both on or both off) as the wiring shows (R-Y wires from pin 3 on both relays joining and leading to the lights on/off switch) since all 4 HB filaments are powered when HB is selected (ie. power must be running through all 4 fuses in this condition). If this is the case I don't understand how the additional relay in your diagram will be triggered by the HB circuit. Anyway, I'll check my car tomorrow and I'll see if I can work out where I am getting confused. Cheers.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw your edit! Cool, all good.

no probs . you will notice the fused lines also go to B74.

Hi Vlad from looking at the info it is that the tap in was in the right way and the Relay Didn't Like it.

do i earth the switch or Not???

Hi Vlad from looking at the info it is that the tap in was in the right way and the Relay Didn't Like it.

do i earth the switch or Not???
which switch? the in cabin one? if so no, the switch will have two pins. use a twin wire or dual core wire. one wire/core from fuse tap to switch pin 1 and the other from switch pin 2 to pin 85 of relay. if you ground switch pin 2 then nothing goes to pin 85. basically with my diagram, if you add the switch then ignore the dotted red bit. if you dont want to add the switch then ignore the orange line and the dotted red then is solid.
i have edited the diagram assuming use of switch.

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab124/vbednikov/Fog%20Light%20Mod/5d8addc9-af80-4ee6-a399-d6f9c9a85dc2_zpsa4ed8b80.jpg

I already have the cabin switch fitted but only via a single cable that i had run spare when i fitted my UHF.
is there a way around it with out running twin wires?

I already have the cabin switch fitted but only via a single cable that i had run spare when i fitted my UHF.
is there a way around it with out running twin wires?
afraid not. where is your switch mounted and where is that single wire routed? would it be easy to route the return via the same path?

Nope as it was i changed the Earth on the Uhf so didnt have to remove the inner guard etc.

I'll figure something out lol will let you know how it goes.

you can wire it all up minus the cabin switch and can always add the switch later. anyhow, i thought someone on here found another route from cabin to engine via the grommet in the centre of the firewall that goes through to the ecu area for the main harness loom.

Have sorted the switch wiring it up now. Got the add a circuit from supercheap as jaycar don't stock it. While at jaycar I bought a relay with a fuse in it. Do I run an inline fuse still?

no need. just make sure it is 20A rated is for the switched circuit and not the switching one. as mentioned, jaycar only has the normal fuse tap. how much was the add a circuit fuse tap from SCA? also how did you sort out the switch wiring?

Circuit was $9.95 With the wiring I just re wired the uhf to a different position under the cupholder. The relay has a 30 amp fuse in it at the moment but I'll put 20 in

Vlad I have wired as per your diagram and it stays on with lowbeam too only way I can get it off is with the switch in the cabin

Vlad I have wired as per your diagram and it stays on with lowbeam too only way I can get it off is with the switch in the cabin

hey? did you use fuse 5 or 6? when I tested fuses 5 a while ago with a multimeter, it only registered 12v when the HBs were on. basically:
1. nothing on, 0v
2. parkers on, 0v
3. LBs on, 0v
4. HBs on, 12v
5. nothing on, flash HBs, 12v.

The dedicated HB fuses are the 3rd pair on the second row counting from back of car to front and drivers side to passenger side when standing in front of the car.

I didnt factor in the stock relay... So because it works on an earth switch, I figured the live was constant. Was being a bit too simplistic I guess!
I like your use of on delay relays, only ever heard of off delay... But I now see the purpose!

I didnt factor in the stock relay... So because it works on an earth switch, I figured the live was constant. Was being a bit too simplistic I guess!
I like your use of on delay relays, only ever heard of off delay... But I now see the purpose!

The delay on timers are very useful. Got one from eBay seller in Bulgaria for the DRLs (small black box with 4 wires coming off it) and one from eBay seller in HK for the reverse camera/sensor (larger unit for DIN mount) as it was easier to adjust the delay. The DRLs are delayed 4 seconds where as the reverse camera/sensor was delayed 750ms.

Have tried both but am limited for space to turn them add a circuit around. As long as it works even by switch for now as am off to Melbourne this weekend

should have enough room to use #6 with it turned around. i use #2 with it turned around.