Hey Guys,
Replaced an o-ring in my engine bay yesterday (Camshaft end plate o-ring) as it was leaking and then degreased the right side of my engine so I could see if it had fixed the leak (Degreased, then washed down with water). Car started fine after that.

Got in my car today, started fine, drove perfectly fine for around 2km and then lost all power. Seemed to be hunting quite a bit for idle and running rough (Miss firing quite a bit). I unpulugged the MAF and plugged it back in and the idle got better, but still miss-firing/running rough. The idle is a bit unpredictable still, fine sometimes and then unstable a few mins later. Sounds almost normal when idling though. And starts easily.
Car is basically undrivable, just lurching, losing power, missfiring etc. Its a manual too.

The car will die (Lose all power, shudder, drop revs very low etc) when I pump the accelerator, however if I rev up slowly it's ok (Can still hear a bit of a missfire though). Sounds very backfirey/missfirey when accelerator pedal is depressed and engine revs drop.

Have taken out spark plug leads to check for water, but looks fine.
Have also taken off the distributor cap to make sure no water got in and there's no sign of any moisture. Gave the terminals a bit of a clean too, but hasn't made any difference.

I'm thinking maybe a vacuum leak or MAF sensor problem? Any idea's? Really do need my car so need to get this fixed asap! Cheers!

I'd be checking the injector plugs and leads carefully and basically any of the connectors around the engine, particularly in the area that got squirted, not forgetting the TPS plug on the throttle body. Not sure of your ride but if it has an EGR valve check the EGR solenoid connector too. Sounds kinda like it's running very lean as it will idle and rev very slowly but opening the throttle kills it, which makes me think injectors or dodgy TPS. Also, check all your fuses.

Long shot and probably not related but have you check the voltage? Does the battery charge ok? Water does not get along well with voltage regs.

Thanks guys. Injector plugs all look ok, spark plug leads do too. But haven't actually 'tested' them...
I could never work out to get that TPS connector off so I never have! Looks like it has some sort of metal clip which holds it on?
Checked all fuses, all ok!

Just started up the car again now that its cold, and its behaving a little better. Idle is pretty steady now, but still just judders and dies whenever I push the throttle down (Unless I go slowly). After I push the throttle and the rpm dies, when I release the throttle, the rpm's jump up by around 800rpm and then drop down to idle again.....
There's a bit of a fuel-y smell, but this may be because i'm revving it......

I'll check the voltage, but I don't think the batt is the problem! It's an Optima yellow top. I've started the car around 6 times today, while sitting still, and still starts up fine!

Car is a TF with the 3L and Cruise if that helps!

Have you got access to a compressor? If I were you, id be blowing compressed air at all the connectors you washed in an attempt to get rid of any lingering water.

^ Have blown everything out, but hasn't fixed the problem... The car has also been running quite a bit today (trying to work out the problem), engine bay's been pretty warm so everything should be nice and dry now I would have thought!

It makes sense that the issue is either related to something disturbed during the o-ring replacement or something electrical got wet during the cleanup. Check that all vac lines are tightly fitted, any chance one has come loose during the O-ring replacement and dropped off? Also check that you haven't pinched any of the injector leads. The TPS lead can be removed by pulling out the little wire clip with a pair of pliers, it's a fiddly little sh1t to put back in and make sure you don't lose it!

Is water in dist cap or is dist coil seal is defective under coil

I find easiest way to remove the TPS is to actually undo the screw headed bolts, then turn it over and pry the clip off with a small screwdriver, careful not to lose it, but I dont think thats your problem so I wouldnt remove it. If you do though mark is position so you put it back in the same spot to prevent idling issues.

It makes sense that the issue is either related to something disturbed during the o-ring replacement or something electrical got wet during the cleanup. Check that all vac lines are tightly fitted, any chance one has come loose during the O-ring replacement and dropped off? Also check that you haven't pinched any of the injector leads. The TPS lead can be removed by pulling out the little wire clip with a pair of pliers, it's a fiddly little sh1t to put back in and make sure you don't lose it!

I don't think it would be to do with the O-ring install, pretty much only removed the very front part of the air intake to replace the O-ring. From there, was just two bolts on the side of the engine! Have checked all vac lines and they all look ok! Injector leads look good too! Hahah noted!
I think its very likely to have happened from moisture! Just cant work out exactly what has been affected!


Is water in dist cap or is dist coil seal is defective under coil

Took the dist cap off, had no sign of any moisture in there! How do I check the coil seal?


I find easiest way to remove the TPS is to actually undo the screw headed bolts, then turn it over and pry the clip off with a small screwdriver, careful not to lose it, but I dont think thats your problem so I wouldnt remove it. If you do though mark is position so you put it back in the same spot to prevent idling issues.

Hmm, alright, might not touch it then, don't want to be creating more problems just yet! :/

Perhaps check all the air intake parts from the snorkel to the throttle body. I had the same issue when I drove through flood water with a stupid ricer cheap attempt at a cold air intake.

Check for moisture, clean the whole throttle body while you're there. Basically what happened to me is water was forced (don't ask) as far as into the air cleaner box ( had a pod filter in it at the time) and that in turn caused the engine to stall when the accelerator was pressed. Would also idle bad and stall after a few seconds.

Also try cleaning all the connectors with electrical cleaner.

Perhaps check all the air intake parts from the snorkel to the throttle body. I had the same issue when I drove through flood water with a stupid ricer cheap attempt at a cold air intake.

Check for moisture, clean the whole throttle body while you're there. Basically what happened to me is water was forced (don't ask) as far as into the air cleaner box ( had a pod filter in it at the time) and that in turn caused the engine to stall when the accelerator was pressed. Would also idle bad and stall after a few seconds.

Also try cleaning all the connectors with electrical cleaner.

Will do! Cheers! I'll see if I can get a video up once i've cleaned everything out (if its still not running properly!)! Hopefully it will make it easier to diagnose!

Cleaned the MAF and sprayed a bunch of connectors (With electrical contact cleaner spray), hasn't fixed the problem.
Got a vid though!
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt310/Rory_Newton/th_IMG_23951.jpg (http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt310/Rory_Newton/IMG_23951.mp4)

This was the first start after taking intake off and cleaning plugs etc. Was a bit rough, started much quicker on the second start (After this vid). You can see the problem though, when I pump the accelerator, the car dies, then gives a quick rev when I depress before returning to idle. Car was cold, so idle was a little high.

Any thoughts??

It kinda seems like the fuel supply via the injectors is not responding to the throttle valve opening, ie maintaining a correct air/fuel ratio. This could be because no fuel is available (fuel regulator, fuel filter, fuel pump, line blocked) but this is unlikely to be caused by washing down the engine. The more likely reason is that the ECU doesn't know you've opened the throttle or can't correctly measure the air flow, suggesting dodgy TPS or MAF or a leaking or split air duct between TB and MAF. I've personally had MAF issues in my TJ that were danged hard to diagnose (caused the EGR valve to play up, not a problem in your case), could be that it has failed and the timing is just coincidental. Maybe disconnect the MAF and run the engine, if it doesn't change then that could be the culprit. Otherwise I guess it's a case of checking each plug and sensor in turn, the manual includes procedures for this.

+1 for checking the TPS. I was lucky, both my original and a throttle body i grabbed from the wreckers had clear white out on the TPS so I could adjust it to neccessary (reccomend using a multimeter to get the correct resistance though)

Cheers guys. If I disconnect the MAF, the problem gets worse, car wont idle properly, jumping all over the place and sounding like its about to stall. However it was doing this yesterday when the problem first started (or when I first noticed) with the connector still plugged in (but has since fixed itself) so that's weird. Other than unsteady idle, it didn't seem to fix or create more problems....

I'm guessing the TPS should be relatively easy to check? Unplug connector, use multi on top two (?) prongs, and see what the results are when I open/close the butterfly valve? Does that sound right? I might have a look for it in the manual now! My current TPS does have the whiteout on it, and looks like it's in the correct position......

Edit: Looks like its pin 1 and 2, not 3 and 4?

I believed it was pin 2 and 4, positive probe on 2. You need to check the connector while its still connected otherwise nothing will change with the butterfly open.

Hmm ok. Do you know how I would go about doing this?
Looks like I might have to pinch the wires (Which I don't really want to do...)?

Edit: Managed to get the little bit of plastic off the top and now im sticking paper clips down the little rubber bits to make contact...

Ok, so just did the test with the ignition in the ON position. Standard value was 0.68ish volts (Pin 3 and ground), and then went up fairly evenly all the way up to around 4.3 with butterfly fully open! So this seems fairly normal? Manual states standard value to be between 400-1000mv so this seems right.....

Does that rule the TPS out?

Judging by that first place I would start is with a new dist

Judging by that first place I would start is with a new dist

Is that not an expensive place to start? Don't they run for a few hundred minimum?
So annoying that a simple $5 o-ring change can turn into this!!

I think you have had water enter under the coil, this will fry the coil
Just go to a wrecker and get a secondhand one off another 3.0l and you will then determine what is going on here, they usually go fro around $65 for a used one

I think you have had water enter under the coil, this will fry the coil
Just go to a wrecker and get a secondhand one off another 3.0l and you will then determine what is going on here, they usually go fro around $65 for a used one

Ah alright! Where is the coil? In the distributor?


Nvm, found this! Looks like its in the dist!


I pulled apart a distributor and here are the steps:

1. remove cap - 3 screws: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorcap.jpg
2. remove rotor arm and 3 screws circled in red: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorinternalplate.jpg
3. remove cam angle sensor plate: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorcamsensorassembly.jpg - you just undo the screw in the middle of the triangular nut
4. remove the 2 screws shown: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorpowertrans.jpg
5. remove the 3 screws hiolding the coil shown: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorcoil.jpg
6. this will leave the distributor body:http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorshell.jpg
Reassembly is the reverse process. However, make sure the No. 1 cylinder is at TDC, line up the cam angle sensor plate flat section in the centre hole: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z447/peteroptions/distributorcamsensorplate.jpg and when the rotor arm goes in it should be pointing to the cable for cylinder 1 on that distributor cap.

If I bought a second hand dizzy off ebay or the like, would it come with the coil? My local wreckers charge new prices for second hand parts.....

It should come with the coil but dont quote me. If I had time I would go get you one from a wreckers down here but sadly I dont have time at the moment.

Sweet! All good, I appreciate the thought man!

What Mal said. Your symptoms are exactly the same as my car has had. I did not wash the engine, it just got drowned from lack of an inner guard liner. Anyhow short of it (no pun intended), distributor was totally FUBAR, once replaced, car was 100% again. Your lucky, I paid auto elec $325 for this, incl distributor. Had no choice, but you do. :)

Good to know! Cheers man! Local Mechanic wanted around $330 just for the distributor (new) so should be able do it for much cheaper than that with a second hand dizzy!

Tried to start the car yesterday, wouldn't even start! So I think that's probably a good sign it is the dizzy! Might see if the leads are still firing tomorrow!

Distributor coil is buggered. So my thinking goes along these lines

Water entered the distributor
You started the car and got it up to operating temperature
The coil killed itself
You checked the distributor after the water had dissipated
Coil is still dead.

Replace the whole distributor with one off a 3l.

or it could be the ECU as I have seen similar symptoms when that has gone.

Yeah that's probably what happened!

Car started alright today, just waiting on second hand dizzy to come now! Felt I should probably order some new leads while I was at it (While most of intake is already off to make it easier to get to dizzy). Don't think the leads have been changed in the 6ish years i've had the car, actually no idea when they were last changed! They are genuine and looking pretty old, so for all I know they have never been changed! Mitsu wanted $148 for a set of genuine, so i've gone Bosch instead (for $70ish dollars less). Hopefully they don't give me any problems.

Hopefully its not the ECU! We will soon find out though!

Might attempt to get my dizzy off tomorrow, given my luck it will probably be a real pain in the ass the get off! Any tips for doing this? Looks like I need to get piston 1 at TDC? I'm guessing I can just check timing marks by removing timing covers? Or can this be done by just cranking and checking which way the dizzy rotor is pointing?

Got the dizzy off today! Much easier than I thought it would be! Now just got to wait for the replacement to come in the post!

The dizzy only goes in one way and there's no timing adjustment needed (this being handled by the crank angle sensor at the other end of the block) so it isn't really necessary to turn the motor to any particular position first. Having said that, if things are a bit worn it is possible to force it in 180 degrees out so have a look at the shaft union both in the motor and on the end of the dizzy and kinda line it up a bit before shoving it in. One tip is to give the replacement dizzy a bit of a rub with light emery paper around the bit that inserts into the block before giving it a smear with a bit of clean oil, it can be tight as a nun's whatever to get back in and removing any oil varnish should help. Best to use a new O-ring as well, if you haven't already got one or it isn't coming with the dizzy.

You will prob regret the Bosch leads, we only use genuine and refuse to even fit aftermarket ones

You will prob regret the Bosch leads, we only use genuine and refuse to even fit aftermarket ones
Who produce the OEM leads? And in what way do you think he would regret the Bosch leads?

My NGK leads haven't missed a beat on either this car or my old Falcon, If Genuine leads were only a matter of a couple of dollars more Id happily fit them.

My NGK leads haven't missed a beat on either this car or my old Falcon, If Genuine leads were only a matter of a couple of dollars more Id happily fit them.
Bursons supply us with NGK and nothing else... also havent encountered any issues.

Mal is a True Believer when it comes to using OEM parts. Nothing else will do for him. The rest of us can buy cheaper parts and put up with the consequences, if any.

Some after market leads are fragile or brittle in the internal conductor - excess load can break it, and you get a misfire that is hard to trace.

Life is like that. Sometimes you take a shortcut and get away with it. At other times you don't.

No doubt OEM is the safest route to go. Perfect example - A car was having overheating options, traced it to the thermo fan switch. Changed it with a Tridon switch and he came back with the same problem. Went with an OEM switch and the problem was properly solved. Clearly you can only rely on aftermarket products "so" much! I probably should have priced some OEM HT leads before I put in my NGKs which were hardly cheap anyway!
Sometimes the cheaper way is anything but cheap...

Cheers guys. Hopefully the Bosch leads work alright, just wasn't willing to pay that $70 premium! If they give me issues, lesson learnt! I found that the bosch leads seem to 'fit' better on the plugs, you could feel them grab as you pushed them down, whereas my mitsu ones just sort of clunked on! Might be because they were old though...

Finally got my dizzy today! Was posted last monday, paid for express, came regular. Brilliant.... Been a longggg week without my car!! Thanks Ensoniq5 for the tips! Will be going down to Mits today to get a new o-ring for it before I stick it in!
Didn't realize how worn my current dizzy cap was until the other one came today! My centre electrode bit is actually recessed into the little hole! I figured it was probably level when new so no big deal, didn't realize it was supposed to stick out so much! Spring loaded too it seems! Looks like the cap I got is fairly new!
I am tempted to just swap over the coils though, my dizzy (the main bit, not the cap), looks to be in much better condition. The bit that sticks into the engine (inside bit) on mine is a nice bronze colour with fairly clean oil on it. The one I got today is a dirty black with dirty oil! Trying to clean it out a bit, but its pretty hard!

Fingers crossed it is the dizzy that's the problem! Will soon find out!

Fitted the dizzy and leads, problem solved!! Must have been the coil!

Cheers guys!! :D

Cool, good to know (and I've learned something new!).

Fitted the dizzy and leads, problem solved!! Must have been the coil!

Cheers guys!! :D

Keep the old distributor as a spare, or something to pull apart just because you can. lol
Have a play with the distributor cap too, the central carbon rod is spring loaded as you say, maybe you can get it to pop out and keep it for a spare.
New coils are about $55 from eBay, I have a spare new one sitting in the shed just for the day i need it. lol