Bought a TL a year ago, brakes were really poor - lots of pedal travel, little retardation unless I pushed hard. Not confidence inspiring.

No worries says I , new pads and a bleed will fix it.
Nope - pads were fine, plenty of meat, didn't need changing. Bleeding showed some air in rear circuit.

No improvement in brakes. Mmmmmm.
Checked the rear brakes yesterday - brakes felt like one end of the car was engaging brakes, then pedal had to move down further for the other end to start braking - no air in the system, pads still less than half worn after 1 year and 20,000 km country km, left them as is.

Pulled the front pads out, still lots of meat on them. But I did find they were still carrying the original shims, as well as being glued onto the caliper on one side and onto the piston on the other, with some rubber like material (silastic possibly?). Put new pads in with their own shims,
no glue, brakes came up brilliantly. Nice high pedal and it now feels all 4 corners bite at the same time.

So the question is - glue the pads in with the recommended goop by all means, but should the original shims be left off if you do that? I have never used the goop, so I don't know what is recommended - shims or no shims?

EDIT: front pads are probably glazed, rears would be too - I better replace them at some time too. I won't be happy until the TL stops as well as the TJ. lol

I'd sooner use shims over goop.
If you have them and they're still in good shape, or if your new kit has them, use them and a bit of anti-squeal and be done with it.

Don't forget to lube the guide pins, etc., obviously.

Yes, goop is off my menu. lol
Front pads came with shims, no funny noises from the front brakes on a test drive, no anti-squeal used. So all good.

I was just wondering if the combination of goop, shims and possibly glazed pads could have been responsible for the sub-acceptable brake performance though.

old pads = Ferodo fer7164, new pads = RDA gp max RDB1203SM

The brake bleed and fresh fluid may have helped to some extent as well I would imagine. Depends on how hard you tested the brakes and operating temperature.

Was the goop an orangy red colour?
If so that is a normal sort of goop used to stop brake squeal.
The shims are there for the same purpose.

I've found copper compound the best and don't forget to put a smear on the edges where the pad rubs against the caliper.

Sounds like glazed pads to me also.

Nope, more the colour and consistency of very old clear silastic. Meh. No matter.

I was just wondering if it is ok to use both shims and goop together.

Part number on the old Ferodo pads don't come up on their website, so I can't tell if they are standard, or whatever, type of pads.

Never heard of using silastic before and I don't think it would be successful anyway.
You can use the shims or not. They're there to stop brake squeal.
I reuse them if the new pads came without them.
The best Goop I've found is copper compound.
I always use it.

When you take the old pad out, you will see shiny metal on the lugs that fit into the caliper frame. Coat those surfaces with compound
and you shouldn't have squeal probs.
Don't forget to file a chamfer on the leading and trailing edges of the pad.

I have been playing with Brakes since the mid seventies as an Apprentice Diesel Mechanic and when inspecting the disk for inappropriate wear I always give them a rub with emery paper to take the glaze off the disk/or drum (handbrake), and that is only providing that they don't need either a reface, even new ones are cleaned and then a light emery. Make sure that any anti rattle pads are replaced either new or the old ones, slight chamfer on the leading/trailing edge of the pad again with emery and a quick wipe over the pad surface with emery as well. then reassemble have rarely had squeal problems even with disks on truck trailers. The other thing is bedding in the brakes, no unnecessary high speed brake stops for a few days as they WILL glaze the pads and disks, reduce stopping distance and make noise.

Always bleed the brakes as part of the brake service in fact if possible do a brake fluid change regardless of whether the book says its due or not, makes sure no air or moisture has entered the system that last problem can seriously degrade braking after a few heavy stops, the fluid boils!

And finally remember this legal problem, if you repair your brakes and go out onto the road and kill someone because of brake failure you can be charged with manslaughter. If you don't know EXACTLY what you are doing don't wing it check the manual and do it by the book!

All good points!

I have been doing my own brake work since . . . . well, it was about the middle of last century, roughly . . . haven't killed myself or anyone else, fingers crossed.

In fact I do brake work myself to make sure they DO work well. lol
Give the new pads 1,000 km of easy driving, then try some OMG panic stops to see if they work evenly and the ABS is doing the right thing.

(Currently waiting on some plastic syringes from eBay so I can suck out old fluid from the reservoir, then replace fluid and do a full bleed.
That will do until the pads need replacing again, then pull the calipers apart, clean out and rekit all 4 corners. And lube pins. And get discs skimmed if needed. )

If the discs are worn, file a chamfer top and bottom of pads.
They will bed in quicker.
When bleeding brakes start at the wheel furthest from the M/cyl.