I've reposted this as my original post was a bit incorrect.

Ok, So I've just got the car back from my daughter after 5 years, before I gave it to her it ran like a dream, but it was also maintained by myself. Now it seems that I've got a heap of work to to do to get it to run nice again.

Before she took the car 5 years ago it ran like a dream and I consistently got 600-650km from a tank full but now it seems excessive, a short trip about 10km out the highway and back sitting on 100kmh saw it use 2-3 needle widths of fuel.

It's a V6 3.o litre auto trans.

When I first got it back from her it ran like an absolute poo! It would barely idle and it would barely run, mostly due to the severe lack of even very basic maintenance by her :(

Ok so I went through the most basic, common sense list and the obvious issues at hand.

Started with:
* Putting some petrol in it and filled it with 98 octane since she had been running it on the "cheapest" option (Probably the ethanol blend shyte I am only guessing though as I am now not talking to her over this abuse to this car.

* Some nulon fuel injector cleaner in the fuel tank (the whole bottle)

* New sparkplugs, , Sorted the idle issues by cleaning the throttle body and poor performance when driving, but still have a bit of an issue with cold drive off.

* New airfilter (the old one was so packed with dust that it would not even allow water to pass through it :(

* Oil and filter change.

Checked leads, timing, checked for air leaks with soapy water in the spray bottle (including the brake booster) and really gave each and every vacume hose a good dousing too.

Cold compression test shows 175PSI on 5 cyls and 180PSI on 1 cyl but I haven’t had time to do a leakdown test or hot compression yet.

Ok, so it is now a week later and when the engine is cold it will actually start and idle, but it is slightly rough on idle (can feel a slight shake when sitting in the car) and the exhaust has a pfft pfft sound which is similar to the sound of a dropped exhaust valve.

The idle is not what I would consider super rough, the tacho barely moves, and my diagnostic tacho (which is far more sensitive) barely moved too.

When it is cold and you put it into gear to drive off it hesitates really badly and almost stalls. It is hard to describe, but it is like a "miss" and I have found if I rapidly press and depress the throttle that it gets it past that and smooths out.
It is only when the engine is cold, or when the engine has been stopped and cooled off (gone shoppping for a few hours etc) . If it doesn't cool of then it doesnt do it (Ie: if i've been driving for 15 mins and park to duck into the shops for 2 minutes and come back out. It starts fine and drives off fine.

I've been going through the genuine mitsubishi workshop manual (pdf) and trying to diagnose the issues, but seem to have solved everything that I can, and now these issues that I can't resolve :(

As per the service adjustments pages, I've checked and adjusted the following:

* Ignition timing set to 5 degrees with the spark advance earthed out and when removed the engine advanced to just over 15 degrees and then tapered back to 5 degrees.
* Idle position switch and Throttle position switch tested using the digital multimeter on terminals 3 and 4, .55mm feeler between the SAS screw and throttle lever and the TPS was an open circuit.
* TPS test says 3.5 to 6.5 k-ohms between terminals 1 and 4 and mine shows 4.59 k-ohms
* TPS test says to check resistance between terminals 2 and 4 (which mine shows .96 k-ohms resistance) but it does not give a required spec, it just says "If resistance is out of specification or fails to change smoothly replace the TPS.
* Throttle stop screw (fixed SAS) was adjusted until it touched the throttle valve lever and then another 1 and a ¼ turns, then tightened up.
* Idle speed was adjusted by bridging terminals 10 and 12 in the self diagnosis connector, and the spark advance cut terminal was earthed, engine started and let to idle, idle speed was sitting on 850rpm so there was no need to adjust the throttle body SAS (Speed Adjusting Screw that sits under the little plastic cap)

* Car was started and driven for 15 minutes then tested the coolant temp sensor. the manual says at 80c it should be .30 k-ohms and mine showed .22 k-ohms so I would say it’s OK

* All injectors were tested even though they were flow tested last week, and while the engine was still hot (yeah I burnt my arm reaching under the inlet manifold  ) and all of them showed exactly 16.2 ohms with the engine at it’s normal operating temp.

The only thing that I didn't test was the o2 sensor (in the exhaust underneath the drivers floor) as I couldn't get under the car at the time.

Could it be the o2 sensor?

The car seems to be rather heavy on fuel, and my thinking is that if it is reading wrong then the resulting rich air fuel mixture would be the cause of the pfft pfft noise the same as a burnt valve.

I finally found a post about how to make a little LED light tool thing to check the light codes, and have used it 3 times after driving for 10-15 minutes but it just constantly blinks out what the manual says is "Normal state"

"Idle position switch and Throttle position switch tested using the digital multimeter on terminals 3 and 4, .55mm feeler between the SAS screw and throttle lever and the TPS was an open circuit."

Actually loosen the screws on the TPS and turn it, so it is closed circuit. Then move it so it just barely opens.

If this solves the problem or improves it, look at the gear change points as well, as the TPS controls not only the fuel transition from closed to open throttle, but the gearbox activities too.

Test light won't show up a lot of things, like injectors that are leaking or partly blocked or lazy at idle.

Here's a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.

It seems to be a cold start prob.
May seem obvious but the temp sensor is a NTC resistance. Which means that the hotter it gets the resistance goes down not up as in a normal resistance.

I repaired a Holden Camira years ago that had this prob.
The lead to the sensor had water in it at some stage and sulphate formed on the copper connector.
The resistance got so high after months of sulphate build up that the ECU thought the car was in Alpine conditions.
It just kept getting richer until it was towed to the shop.
There was so much soot in it, even down to the end of the tailpipe.

Now the clue here is the fact sensor is reading a low spec.
Showing .22k instead of .30k could be a reason the eng is running rich.

The other thought.
The injectors have been cleaned. Did they test for a dribbly injector.

If it leaks when the engine is off, theres still pressure in the fuel rail, might explain the difficult cold starts.

If you can't get at the Lamdba probe, find the wire colour and see if you can trace it.

Good luck.

"Idle position switch and Throttle position switch tested using the digital multimeter on terminals 3 and 4, .55mm feeler between the SAS screw and throttle lever and the TPS was an open circuit."

Actually loosen the screws on the TPS and turn it, so it is closed circuit. Then move it so it just barely opens.

If this solves the problem or improves it, look at the gear change points as well, as the TPS controls not only the fuel transition from closed to open throttle, but the gearbox activities too.

Test light won't show up a lot of things, like injectors that are leaking or partly blocked or lazy at idle.

Thanks MadMax, will look into that tomorrow :)

I drive with the trans in "power" mode as I prefer the way it drives, I always found the TR and TS magna's sluggish in the economy mode.

When you say to look at the gear change points do you mean on the tacho, speedo or both?

I have noticed the test light function is next to useless :(
No injectors are visibly leaking
I noticed that after I had disconnected the battery and left the headlight's in the "on" position for half hour, reconnected the battery, started and then let it idle for 12 minutes and it is definitely running heaps smoother than when she dropped it off to us so that's gotta be a plus right?

Another question, I can't hear any leaks in the exhaust but the rear muffler and it's 2x tailpipes are rotten.

I'm going to replace them but haven't been able to get underneath the car yet to check the rest of the exhaust because of my disability's , but what's the best idea for the exhaust?
The guy at the shop says to put a 2 and a half inch system on it with cat convertor and rear muffler only, is this a good idea?

Another thought.
The cyl with the 180 psi reading, do you remember what the spark plug looked like when you removed it?
Darker than the others?

You take a very great risk using a test light on a car with an ECU.

The computer will see it as a short circuit. Touch the wrong wires and Pop there goes the ECU.

Only use a DVM.

Here's a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.

It seems to be a cold start prob.
May seem obvious but the temp sensor is a NTC resistance. Which means that the hotter it gets the resistance goes down not as in a normal resistance.

I repaired a Holden Camira years ago that had this prob.
The lead to the sensor had water in it at some stage and sulphate formed on the copper connector.
The resistance got so high after months of sulphate build up that the ECU thought the car was in Alpine conditions.
It just kept getting richer until it was towed to the shop.
There was so much soot in it, even down to the end of the tailpipe.

Now the clue here is the fact sensor is reading a low spec.
Showing .22k instead of .30k could be a reason the eng is running rich.

The other thought.
The injectors have been cleaned. Did they test for a dribbly injector.

If it leaks when the engine is off, theres still pressure in the fuel rail, might explain the difficult starts.

Thanks for the reply Verandah,

The temp sensor seems to be fine and I also checked all the engine bay connector's for signs of water ingress and cleaned them all with GP thinners and a cotton wool tip anyway.

I only found 1 dodgy connection and that was the single wire on the actual temp gauge sensor but since I really want to solve this problem I'll definitely check the temp sensor resistance again in the morning when it is cooler :)

Oh and the exhaust pipe is black as inside, powdery black soot.
The daughter only drive the car around town and it rarely saw anything over 70kmh (only 2 or 3 times in the past 5 years).

I've had it out on the highway and given it a really good hard and fast blast (to 100kmh) for about 15-20 minutes after I did the computer reset. I cant fault it on the highway, it's got loads of balls and the transmission seems to shift nice and smooth at what I would consider a reasonable shift point.

I didn't take the temp when I read the temp sensor, but it immediately after I stopped the car after it had been at normal operating temp for about 15 minutes and I couldn't find my laser temp gauge (again, damn kids) so I'm only guessing that it was around 90c?

I'm not sure exactly what was done to test the injectors, but the guy is a mate who does injectors for a living and I've had other injectors done by him before with no problems, so I trust he knew what to do lol :)

With the starting, since I have had the car back for a week now and done the list of things above, the car actually starts as easily, it's when I put it into D and go to drive off that it sort of stumbles, like it has stalled. If I punch the GO pedal a few times quickly it gets past that (but that is really scarey, and likely dangerous too)

Another thought.
The cyl with the 180 psi reading, do you remember what the spark plug looked like when you removed it?
Darker than the others?

The were the bosch 4 electrode plugs and all looked the same: very dark black which would indicate to me that it was running rich, and likely outcome of the conditions that I described in my original post above, the air filter was so blocked that when I removed it water wouldn't even drip through it.

I'm actually totally amazed that the car started and ran because in all my years working in the automotive industry, this was by far the worst air filter that I have EVER seen, and the obvious lack of maintenance and servicing by said daughter astounded me :(


You take a very great risk using a test light on a car with an ECU.

The computer will see it as a short circuit. Touch the wrong wires and Pop there goes the ECU.

Only use a DVM.

I read a couple of articles about the use of an ECU test light and I used an LED with a 10k resistor which worked fine. Obviously I was very careful and wasn't about to connect it to the wrong pin though as I've always been very careful with any form of computer.

The Digital volt meter didn't respond fast enough, the manual says NOT to use a DVM, only use an analogue meter and I haven't had one of them for about 25 years now :(

So how does it go if you punch it from standstill, just the once, no jiggling the pedal? Like half throttle?
lol
Left foot on brake, right foot on accelerator, wind revs up slowly to 1500 and let go of brake. If it takes off smoothly, it's the TPS adjustment.

PS. Girls and car care. It's like a washing machine, right? You use it when you need to and the rest of the time you ignore it. lol

So how does it go if you punch it from standstill, just the once, no jiggling the pedal? Like half throttle?
lol
Left foot on brake, right foot on accelerator, wind revs up slowly to 1500 and let go of brake. If it takes off smoothly, it's the TPS adjustment.

PS. Girls and car care. It's like a washing machine, right? You use it when you need to and the rest of the time you ignore it. lol

lol will loook at that tomorrow too thanks MadMax :)
It actually rev's fine in neutral, doesn't cut out at all.

Girls that are not my offspring yeah!!!

Well it seems you have the problem well gripped in hand.
I'll bow out and leave you with it.

I hope you have a happy ending.

Cheers.

So how does it go if you punch it from standstill, just the once, no jiggling the pedal? Like half throttle?
lol
Left foot on brake, right foot on accelerator, wind revs up slowly to 1500 and let go of brake. If it takes off smoothly, it's the TPS adjustment.



As expected, it does the same, assume the position for "doing a line locky" left foot on brake, start car, right foot pressed the go pedal once.......... The engine instantly had a massive miss, and virtually stalled completely as soon as pedal was pressed. :O

So I went back to the manual,

Thank you to MadMax and Verandah for your assistance with this issue!

I just posted most of this onto another thread in relation to fuel filter, but just wanted to update my original post.

I think I will just replace the TPS as well (MadMax) as there is still a slight issue there, even after setting the position :(

Oh I also spoke with my mate who did the injectors, long term mate and I do trust him, but it turns out that one of his apprentices had looked at my car, only plugged in the ECU reader and that was all that he did :( (my mate did not charge me for this "work" either lol)

I asked my daughter what fuel she had been running the car on, she said "the cheapest option"

When I previously had the car I always ran it on 95 premium or 98 ultra, NEVER EVER on E10............

As you know, when I got the car back it would barely idle (or run) but with the assistance of several people who replied to this post, I have been able to rectify almost all of these running problems (Thanks MadMax) and ran through a long list of things to do, check, clean, replace, etc etc.

Servicing your vehicle is NOT just about fixing things that are broken. It is about preventing things from breaking down.

Ok, so these photos are a prime example of the lack of even basic servicing.

Aftermarket fuel filter cost was $16.50 and took me approximately 45 minutes, including a few other things that i was doing at the same time.

Stripping and cleaning the fuel injectors took 2 hours including the ultrasonic cleaning, and the new seals and strainer baskets were the princely sum of $26.50 from my local autobarn.

The fuel filter on this car had been changed by me approximately 6 years ago and my daughter got the car from me roughly a year later, and as i have said, she ran it on the cheapest option (being E10).

Ethanol (same as methylated spirit) is a cleaning agent, so it has released all the dirt from the fuel system, and lodged it into the fuel filter.
I don't know if the fuel filters for vehicles which run on ethanol blended fuel are different, but I can tell you that the paper element in this filter had started to rot.

Here are the photos of the contents of that 6 year old fuel filter, The jar shows the direct contents including fuel that I was able to shake out of the filter after removing it, the white container is the contents of the paper element after I split the filter and washed it through.

The paper element had broken down, passing this muck into the injectors and blocking the strainer baskets that are in the top of each injector :( Any wonder it wouldn't blood run!!!

THe thing that really surprised me was that it ran fine at high revs????


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/GS750/Cars/MAGNA/PA131567_zps3147e2e5.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/GS750/Cars/MAGNA/PA131569_zpsb56d3616.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/GS750/Cars/MAGNA/PA131568_zpsebbf60f2.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/GS750/Cars/MAGNA/PA141573_zps99a92424.jpg

These injector baskets were all but blocked. This image was taken after I had removed most of the gunge from them.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/GS750/Cars/MAGNA/PA141573_zps99a92424.jpg

So today I decided that I'm going to order a new ISC (idle speed controller) and TPS (throttle position sensor with built-in idle position switch)

While looking around evilbay for suitable new parts, I discovered that the ISC part numbers seem to really vary. Mine shows E9T15371 but none of the listings have the TS V6 listed? I think this motor actually came from a TR V6 about 12 years ago from memory but all the evilbay listings and part numbers seem to indicate this is not the ISC for this motor??.

The evilbay listings show:
IAC419N
E9T15371C
E9T15271C
MD628059
MD628053
731501M
731503M
so which one is which?? Are they all the same??

Also noticed when I took this photo the water pipe next to the ISC has some rust / corrosion on it. Any ideas what this feeds to??

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/GS750/Cars/MAGNA/PA151578_zps10e9ba08.jpg