Hi everyone.

92 efi stopped while driving it the other day. After some searching on here i found the way to bypass the relay for the pump and was able to drive it home. Interestingly when i got home and pulled the wire i had running from the battery the car still kept running (i expected it to stop straight away if the relay was faulty)

Since then the car starts and runs a bit but you can hear the relay clicking off and on every so often. The engine either misses or stops depending on how long the pump is off for i guess. I swapped the pump relay and the same thing still happens.

What could be turning the pump relay off? There seems to be more clicking from the engine bay while this happens but i havent worked out exactly where or if it is a relay or just the fuel pressure going high then low that is doing it.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Do you have an alarm/immobilizer?

Nope.

page 1059 of the manual (4 cyl MPI) shows the 'engine control relay' at pin 2 supplies power (12 Volt) to the fuel pump.
As a first step, confirm that the pin has 12 volt when the pump should be running.
The particular relay seems to have 2 coils and at this stage I'm not sure what the two coils do. One of the coils is activated when the transistor in the ECU goes into conduction, and at pin 7 of the engine control relay, the voltage at this point should be zero when the transistor is conducting and hence the relay must be conducting.
check this details and see what happens.

Sounds like either you have a broken trigger wire, or the component controlling the triggering is defective.

Grab a multimeter and check the conductivity of the trigger wire, more than likely it is broken at some point along its length. Depending on how much effort you want to put in finding the break determines how much wire you need to replace.

Basically what the bloke above me said.

Sounds like this is going to be a fun job. Any idea why the pump relay is so complicated? I assume the relay is doing more than just a simple off/on function but not sure what. Car runs fine with 12v going to the pump connector on the firewall but i am pretty sure bypassing the relay with a switch isnt going to be a good idea long term.

Any idea what would be making clicking noises around the intake area? Not sure is there is anything there that would be triggering the relay to go off and on. Ill do some more testing. EDIT: looking at the wiring diagram there is a purge valve in there somewhere controlled by the same relay.

Downloading the manual now as i cant find where i saved it from last time i needed it. Ill work out what the trigger is for the relay and see if it is flicking off and on as well.

I did get the spare from a wrecker there there is always a small chance it has the same issue. You would think a relay either works or doesn't, 2 being intermittent sounds like the relay itself isn't the issue.

Relay is energised when you turn the key to start and then should switch from that to alt circuit once the alternator excites.
This way if you have an accident the alt stops working and electrical supply is cut to the fuel pump to prevent fuel spraying everywhere if a line is cut in the accident etc.
Might be dirty contacts in the relay....swap it out and see if it still does the same.Eliminates that then go from there if the problem persists.
Clicking in the intake area is not the fuel pressure relief valve making noises is it?? Vee

Thanks, that makes sense.

I swapped the relay with one from the wreckers and the problem is the same.
I guess the connector to the ECU could have some corrosion. A bad connection to the ignition switch could cause issues as well i imagine

Not sure where the clicking was coming from, Ill have to get someone to start the car so i can listen for it again. Often stalls before i get the chance. Actually the other day it was still clicking away after the car stalled which is weird.

Might be that alternator connection. I think the ignition key would be ruled out if it is the fuel supply only and not spark as well as the fuel pump runs off the alt once engine running and key only provides power to pump while cranking. Vee

Good idea, ill check those connectors.

Duffy,
P1051 shows the Ignition switch in its 3 states. 'ACC - ON - STart'
I'm sure the switch diagram says that terminal #5 is at 12 volt when STarting and terminal #4 is 0 volt; and when ON, term 4 is 12 volt and terminal 5 is 0 volt. Wire color from terminal 5 is 2B -Y and from terminal #4 is 2B-W.
Then on P 1059, the ECR is energised through pin #9 when starting and the other coil connection through terminal 6 is earthed. When the engine starts, the ECR is energised through pin 3 and the current goes to earth through the switch transistor at pin 56 of the ECU. This transistor MUST be conducting at all times the engine is running. If it is faulty or intermittent then the relay will drop out and the fuel pump will stop.
The reason for the double coil arrangement is to isolate the starting circuits from the running circuits. This allows the fuel relay to drop out if for some reason the engine stops. The switch transistor will be turned off by the ECU.
As a first step, check all the connections.
Reference to the alternator is a bit off the mark in your case. The alternator keeps the battery charged and if it is not generating, then you still have the battery supply voltage. Close examination of the electrical power distribution circuits will show this. Just dont want you to run off at a tangent.
Timitf talks about the 'trigger wire' but I dont know what he means.
In order to do a diagnosis, you might think to check the voltage across the RELAY coil DIRECTLY BETWEEN PINS 3 AND 7 if the pump is stopping. Also check the fuel pump voltage between pin 2 of the ECR and ground. The fuel pump voltage must be 12 volt and the relay coil voltage must be 12 volt. Anything else indicates a problem.
Is this all clear?

Hey Rumpfy. Sorry for the late reply, had a birthday party to get the house ready for so put the car on hold.

I have just been out having a look at it and something really weird is happening. It starts and runs fine for about 30sec, then not just does the pump relay click on and off but there are all sorts of noises i cant identify around the intake area. I have uploaded a video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvDgivRa9m4

Strange that this wasn't the original problem with the car. It just stopped at first and was not getting any fuel, wouldnt start at all. I ran 12v to the test conector and drove about 2km home, since then it has been starting ok but then stopping like this. Did running 12v to the pump test connector in the engine bay break something else?

I'll get the multimeter out now and check those voltages. I am probably going to have to do this with the car running i imagine which is going to be interesting. Battery is pretty poor now and all this starting and stopping will have it flat in no time i imagine. Really annoying.

I need to get the Magna going so i have a 2nd car going while i pull the diesel pump out of the delica to replace a seal. I think i must have done something to offend the Mitsubishi gods.

Edit: Battery went flat before i could get a proper reading on the pins while it was running. Noticed the clicking in the engine bay stops when you pull out the pump relay, starts again when you plug it back in.

Is yours auto as have had noises like that from the auto when there has been battery problems the solenoids click like crazy.
Try running 12v to the pump direct to see if the pump runs ok.
Engine control relay??
Definately an electrical problem i think......... how good are the earths and battery connections on the car?? Vee

Have you felt with yours hands to see what is actually doing the clicking as you will feel it easily?? Vee

Hey veeone. I had tried but hadnt had much luck, i disconnected several of the connectors around the area and the noise still happened. Battery is charged now so i went to have another look.

I was thinking about that noise (other than the clicking) and it sounded like the noise you get when a transformer is about to blow.
Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhq-biENbOY

I checked the connectors around the (whatever the replacement for a coil is). not bad. checked the rotor and found this:
http://i.imgur.com/vUGW4yR.jpg

Then inside the cap i found this:
http://i.imgur.com/T5Ht9xJ.jpg

Note the part from the centre is actually not attached any more bits of plastic and carbon stuff everywhere. How has it even been starting at all like that?

I guess it is time for a new cap and rotor. Hopefully the pump relay has just been turning off because the car is picking up the engine not firing.

FFS.

New cap on, rotor cleaned up. No difference. Even before starting the car, just turning it to 'on' now, before even stating and the clicking starts in the engine bay.

I worked out what the noises are.
1st, the purge control solenoid. (that is the black thing on the firewall with 2 vac pipes isnt it?) Stops when you unplug it.
2nd, Inside the intake, unplug the brown connector and that noise stops.
3rd, something in the high voltage section, I unplugged it for now so nothing gets cooked (or me zapped)

All clicking stops if i pull out the fuel pump relay. I am guessing either both fuel pump relays i have tried are faulty or the ECU is damaged.

Could the ECU have been damaged when i originally broke down and ran the battery dead flat trying to get it started? This wasn't the original problem with the car.

Battery is reading at around 12.9v. I am guessing if it had such a bad earth before trying to start it wouldn't be able to crank it now.

OK so i pulled out the ECU.
Cap/caps look to be leaking, I guess that could cause the weird issues i am having.
http://i.imgur.com/GyJSdug.jpg

Guess i am off to the wrecker again on a hunt for an ECU.....

Duff,
Sorry, I've been a bit slack.
Your post #12 is the key; "got ot get the multimeter out...."; I think you have to confirm what the fuel pump supply voltage is doing. This is all assuming the fuel pump is stopping. testing will show!!.
The pic in post 15 might be relevant. I think the pulsing for the fuel pump comes from the LV side of the ignition; but still, it all needs to work. So as you find faults like dodgy distributor caps, then rectification is the only way to go. I have to say I am always reluctant to 'rush out and buy a new one' until after I have 'diagnosed' then corrected. If the dist cap looks bad, then make a mod to check that aspect, and then proceed from there.
The pic of the ECU looks interesting but hard to say anything.
The thing marked T5Z28 looks like a high current diode which is out of context with what else is there. Looks like C44 maybe leaking but a check of the fuel pump voltage is the first place to go.
The copper tracks where TR14 is written look like heavy current tracks and there is a component to the north west of C 14 that looks odd.
The device T5Z28 looks horribly like a Toshiba 5Z27 which is described as "Toshiba silicon power surge suppressor for automotive applications". Has there been a 'surge' that has taken out the component to the North west of C14. The 5z28 should be open circuit in both directions when tested with the multi meter, depending on what else is in that circuit. It should NOT be less than at least 30 to 100 ohms tho'. I'm pretty sure this thing is actually a 27/28 volt high current fast zener diode and will be connected to PLUS on the terminal with the band (RHS).
What shits me about all this stuff is things like the device IC6. It's a 68 pin package and when this stuff goes haywire, repair is virtually impossible. you cant even unsolder it without stuffing the PCB tracks.

I've had another thought. If the fuel pump relay is pulled, then measure the fuel pump current by connecting an ammeter in the lead to the fuel pump. this should be around 1 amp or less I guess. Pull the relay, get the fuel pump running and try to start the car. See what happens. If its OK it may be something in the ECU detecting a faulty fuel pump circuit and may be trying to protect itself by repeatedly shutting down the fuel pump relay. I think some of the earlier posts were saying something like this.

Thanks for the reply.
I was getting 12v at the relay, i was getting 12v at the purge control and switching off and on like crazy. Even without starting the car the clicking starts and goes crazy in the engine bay.

Some googling found these ecu caps have a tendancy to leak or blow.
eg: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-74626.html

The brown is definitely cap internals that have been ejected from the bottom, the whole thing is covered in a layer of glossy acrylic stuff which i assume is stopping the caps leaking from the top like i would expect them to. Looking side on the entire underside of the cap is brown crap.

I figured for the same of replacing a couple of caps i would give it a go.
like this guy: http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=11465

I got to the shop, got out of the car, the stupid tag on the keys caught on the board and it slipped out of my hand. It landed in exactly the wrong spot and now it is beyond repair.

Don't really have a choice now, have to go and find an ECU. I will update this with how it goes.

Looking at the board good chance the capacitor is a problem. Did you trace to see which pin on the ecu it connects too??
That way In the manual you can see what it controls.
Should not be too hard to get an ECU plenty being wrecked around the place. Only difference maybe manual or Auto ecu. Back then though there may not have been much of a difference like you get nowadays. Goodluck Vee

Just got back from the wrecker.
What i had was: aw319647

What i found was aw335189 (has new caps on it which was a plus, looks to have been re-manufactured)

Did some searching and it looks like the ECU i have been using is for a manual up to 10/94. The one i found was in an Auto of a similar manufacturer date to my car so i thought i would take the risk.
Interesting that someone has put a manual ECU in my Auto at some point before i got it.

Anyway, put the new one in no clicking so far. Started fine ran fine for 5 min or so. Haven't taken it for a drive yet but it looks to be fixed! Woohoo.
All up cost about $85 for the ecu and the dizzy cap. Not bad.

Lessons learnt
1: If you havent checked the caps in your ECU it probably would be a wise move. One of the others i found at the wrecker had leaking caps as well.
2: If you get really weird clicking off and on of various circuits, check the ECU caps.
3: Dont drop ECU circuit boards on concrete. :/

Just to let you know, all 4 cyl ECU can be interchanged in second gens which are 4cyl and all 6 cyl ones can be used in any 6cyl car. In short provided you have an ECU to match your motor you are good to go

Same with the TCU, provided you have the right amount of plugs (ie 2 or 3 plug) does not matter if oyu have a 4 or 6 cyl one