This how much was drained out of the catch can after 5,000km since last drain on my ASX diesel. Imagine all this trapped in the intercooler and intake piping. I am using one of those catch cans for diesels with a filter as normal catch can i had proved to be not sufficient as fumes with oil would simply make it past it (i could see it when i removed hose after it and it was drenched in oil). Second pic shows the depth of the oil in that little jar.

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af244/e363ma78/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140115_194045.jpg (http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/e363ma78/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140115_194045.jpg.html)

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af244/e363ma78/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140115_194052.jpg (http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/e363ma78/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140115_194052.jpg.html)

Quick question mate.
Would an oil catch can be worthwhile on my Jag XFS (3.0 litre v6 twin turbo intercooled diesel)?
Would it help alleviate blocked DPF issues? That is, would it reduce soot build up in the DPF?
I've put about 5,600 k on the car since I got it, and I've had three 'DPF full' messages so far. The middle one of the three was the 'serious' one with a CEL and limp home mode invoked, took three laps of the Port River expressway to invoke the forced regeneration process and clear it.
I've been using Wynn's DPF cleaner (375 ml bottle every third or fourth tank of fuel) and just recently Morey's Diesel Smoke Killer (100ml in each tank of fuel) and so far they seem to be working, no "DPF full" crap for the last 1,500k. And the only fuel I've ever put in it is BP Ultimate Diesel.
But if an oil catch can really helps then I'd like to look into fitting one.

Andrei:
That is scary stuff. How many km has the ASX done? How much oil does it use between changes? To have that much oil in the can means that there must be a lot of blowby. My diesel Pajero has only done 16000 km, but in the first 15000 (all in good conditions (long runs, mostly lightly loaded), the oil level on the dipstick didn't drop at all , so I would expect that a catch can wouldn't get much oil (yet).

Yes DPF is the most useless piece of crap. Fortunately for me i am yet to experience blockage issues, that said however it does do active regeneration quite often when i drive it in the city which causes the infamous oil dilution and overfilling. I have been doing a lot reading regarding DPF and what can be done.

1. EGR. I just paid over $700 for my Triton to have inlet manifolds cleared out from carbon deposits caused by EGR, i did not want to do the same on my brand new ASX so i blocked EGR off. However this thors up CEL light, but no limp mode so i just keep clearing every few days (annoying but i think well worth it). I know for a fact when ASX dpf gets blocked ECU closes EGR valve until it is unblocked. Hence EGR does contribute to DPF blockage.

2. Get rid of the damn thing. But to do this you either need to gutter it but make sure all pressure sensors are not damaged. That way ECU will think filter flowing perfectly but might still do regeneration every now and then (in ASX its every 750ks). OR Pay to have your ECU reflashed, This is your mob http://www.chiptuning.com.au/work-gallery/jag-xfs-dpf-delete/. They quoted me $1500 to have my ECU re tuned which included for DPF disabling (so yo can just take it off and run straight pipe), EGR removal and performance tune (increasing injector duration). When i save up a bit this is the way i will go. It will have to be a bench tune, meaning ECU has to come out of your car opened up and flashed. In your case posting it.

3. Water meth injection. Idea is that adding methanol or ethanol which has slower flame front will burn for longer then diesel and as such will burn off all residual diesel which did not burn therefore reducing soot coming out which block DPF. Looking at $400 for a decent kit.

4. Get exhaust place to take off you filter (cut it off), put straight pipe and fit all the sensors to it, this way you get to keep DPF in case you want to re install it later.

5. Oil catch can, while it might not solve the issue it will definitely keep your intake air clean thus making sure no oil will make it into your combustion chamber thus produce more soot, get it installed regardless. Diesel produces a lot of fumes so make sure to the the one with the filter, normal cans dont work well on diesels. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PRO-VENT-200-CRANKCASE-BREATHER-PROVENT-4WD-/261014128326?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc5a786c6&_uhb=1

Andrei:
That is scary stuff. How many km has the ASX done? How much oil does it use between changes? To have that much oil in the can means that there must be a lot of blowby. My diesel Pajero has only done 16000 km, but in the first 15000 (all in good conditions (long runs, mostly lightly loaded), the oil level on the dipstick didn't drop at all , so I would expect that a catch can wouldn't get much oil (yet).

Asx only has 20,000ks. You gotta watch out as all new Pajeros have DPF, meaning while it is regenerating some diesel finds its way into the sump, so you will find that dipstick oil level will never drop, in my case it actually rises. I have same can installed on my triton (same engine as pajero) and results are the same if not worse (due to higher capacity of the engine). Its also to do with the fact that due to high compression ratios of diesel, crank case gets a lot of blow by gases with unburned diesel which obviously vents back into intake diesel under high temperature also fumes up a lot, hence why so much crap gets into intake.

Some good reading about the issue

http://www.chiptuning.com.au/provent-style-oil-separators/

Thanks mate.
Been doing plenty of research and already checked out DPF removal, Chiptuning, Provent, you name it.
As you say, with removing the DPF on my Jag I need to get a full and proper ECU/ECM retune, and that's a specialist job requiring removal of the ECU from the car and opening it up. Only one mob in all of Oz willing & able to do it, and guess what, that's Chiptuning. Problem is, I need to take the car to their workshop in western Sydney to have it done, and they have quoted me $1,999 to do it. Factor in travel costs, fuel, accommodation etc and I'm looking at not much change out of $4k. So my plan at the moment is to see how I go with the two additives I am using, they seem to work, and in two week's time I'll be making regular fortnightly trips to and from Coonalpyn, which is a round trip of around 330k and which should prevent 'DPF full' problems.
I'll keep looking into buying and fitting a Mann & Hummel Provent 200 diesel catch can.

Andrei what exactly did the $700 carbon cleanup do, and how effective was it?

Andrei:
For what it is worth, my Pajero doesn't have a DPF, and as far as I know, all newer NW Pajeros don't. Certainly with the early NT models, only the autos had a DPF, not the manuals. Whatever, I am looking at doing an EGR blanking plate, but all I read conflicts with each other, I have concluded that (1) the engine will take longer to warm up; (2) the inlet manifold will stay cleaner - the main aim; and that (3) I think that it should use less fuel. I say that is should use less fuel because the engine would then get celan air all the time instead of regugitating its own exhaust gasses. EGR is put there for emission control and where I live and drive, emissions are not a problem.

Have you noticed any change in fuel consumption and performance since you blanked off the EGR?

I have a scangauge II, which is supposed to be able to clear CEL codes. Have you thought of getting one of these? Amongst other things, it allows you to monitor boost pressure, inlet air temps, cooling water, and lots of other parameters. Fortunately, I don't think that I have had any codes, so I cannot confirm this, but the book says you can.

I'm assuming the mess in the bucket is carbon (soot) mixed with diesel fuel.

So let me see if I'm on the ball here . . .
The particulate filter sits in the exhaust system and filters out the soot. When it clogs up the ECU injects extra diesel into the exhaust system (or cylinders) which is then supposed to burn off the carbon in the DPF. Any unburnt fuel/soot mixture is then recycled back into the intake system somehow.

How hot and for how long must the DPF be heated before the thing is clean?
How much fuel does this use up?
How can the unburnt diesel end up in the sump to raise the oil level?

On the ASX, how were the 5,000 km accumulated - lots of short trips which resulted in poor regeneration attempts?
Where does the unburnt fuel re-enter the engine normally? Hopefully not before the hot turbo, or the intercooler.
What effect does burning soot laden fuel have on the performance and life expectancy of the engine?

I have to wonder - if you pay a small fortune for a Diesel Jag (or anything else) or half a small fortune for a Diesel ASX, and get this problem, how suitable really are these cars with DPF for urban transport? (Long trips at sustained open road speeds would't be a problem I imagine.)

As for reprogramming ECUs or removing DPFs, sounds highly illegal and a cloud of black smoke would give the game away rather quickly.

I'm putting this into the "too hard" basket and crossing diesels off my shopping list for my next purchase.

Thanks mate.
Been doing plenty of research and already checked out DPF removal, Chiptuning, Provent, you name it.


Yep can see you did you research! What additive are you using i might give it a go to increase regen intervals.

Andrei:
For what it is worth, my Pajero doesn't have a DPF, and as far as I know, all newer NW Pajeros don't. Certainly with the early NT models, only the autos had a DPF, not the manuals. Whatever, I am looking at doing an EGR blanking plate, but all I read conflicts with each other, I have concluded that (1) the engine will take longer to warm up; (2) the inlet manifold will stay cleaner - the main aim; and that (3) I think that it should use less fuel. I say that is should use less fuel because the engine would then get celan air all the time instead of regugitating its own exhaust gasses. EGR is put there for emission control and where I live and drive, emissions are not a problem.

Have you noticed any change in fuel consumption and performance since you blanked off the EGR?

I have a scangauge II, which is supposed to be able to clear CEL codes. Have you thought of getting one of these? Amongst other things, it allows you to monitor boost pressure, inlet air temps, cooling water, and lots of other parameters. Fortunately, I don't think that I have had any codes, so I cannot confirm this, but the book says you can.

Oh so manual Pajeros were spared! Lucky you! To honest i didn't really notice any noticeable improvement in fuel consumption. That said when i took of the EGR pipe it already had carbon building up there, this was only after 7,000ks on the clock. Does scangauge II have a special way of clearing codes? I have been using Torque for Adroid to monitor engine aprameters and clear CEL, problem CEL comes back on after 8 hours of driving or so. Whats the max boost of you Pajero (asx runs 22psi).

Andrei what exactly did the $700 carbon cleanup do, and how effective was it?

Basically carbon build up was to a point where it severely restricted the airflow into the cylinders, car would would have no power, smoke would pour out the exhaust, horrible economy. After clean was done it was like a brand new car, i have put in catch can and blocked EGR since then.

I'm assuming the mess in the bucket is carbon (soot) mixed with diesel fuel.

So let me see if I'm on the ball here .

This is what happens. In normal diesel without the DPF soot just goes out the exhaust, normally when diesel did not burn properly that's why sometime you bit of black smoke from diesel under high load. Now some genius though lets trap this soot, thast what DPF does. It obviously has to go somewhere, so the idea is when you are cruising on highway and engine is running lean, exhaust temperatures are high and soot will naturally turn into ash (passive regeneration). Unfortunately not everyone drives on the highway, so this is where active regeneration comes in, diesel is injected at the exhaust stroke, it flys out the exhaust valve at about 600c this temperature will turn soot into ash and unblock the filter. However people who do lots of short trips often turn of their engine before regen could be competed, thus filter remain blocked. and if this happens few time in a row you will get CEL about this issue and it can get to a point where DPF will have to ge taken out for a clean.

Diesel does not get into the sump via EGR, small quantities of it sips past the piston rings into the sump during DPF regeneration. The actual oil in the catch can is a result of fumes coning out the PCV valve, this appears to be not related to DPF regen issue, as my Triton has no DPF and catch can still traps lots and lots and lots of oil.

I dont think removal of DPF is illegal as not all new diesels even come with one (as i just found out for instance manual pajeros). Its a junk technology as any potential benefit on the environment you might have by not releasing soot is more than offset by the fact that you waste shit loads of fuel to burn it and instead of black smoke you have white smoke out the exhaust during the regen (so embarrassing)

I dont think this should turn you away from diesel. I never looked back, i can average just 6.0 per 100ks in the city not to mention all the torque that come with it.

Yep can see you did you research! What additive are you using i might give it a go to increase regen intervals.



Andrei,


From my first post in this thread: "I've been using Wynn's DPF cleaner (375 ml bottle every third or fourth tank of fuel) and just recently Morey's Diesel Smoke Killer (100ml in each tank of fuel)...". They both claim to reduce the frequency of passive regens, just in different ways.


As you guessed I have done many hours of research on DPFs, regeneration, removal, retuning etc etc, and like you have come to the conclusion that DPFs are a massive waste of time, money and resources. The 'need' for them was driven by European Greens, and they achieve nothing but extra cost and hassle for owners of modern diesel cars.
Maybe some good news on the horizon, a possible 'hi-flo' sports DPF, see this page: http://www.carformance.com.au/blog/dpfdelete/

Andrei,


From my first post in this thread: "I've been using Wynn's DPF cleaner (375 ml bottle every third or fourth tank of fuel) and just recently Morey's Diesel Smoke Killer (100ml in each tank of fuel)...". They both claim to reduce the frequency of passive regens, just in different ways.


As you guessed I have done many hours of research on DPFs, regeneration, removal, retuning etc etc, and like you have come to the conclusion that DPFs are a massive waste of time, money and resources. The 'need' for them was driven by European Greens, and they achieve nothing but extra cost and hassle for owners of modern diesel cars.
Maybe some good news on the horizon, a possible 'hi-flo' sports DPF, see this page: http://www.carformance.com.au/blog/dpfdelete/

Thanks, i will give Morey's Diesel Smoke Killer a go and will see if it increases regeneration intervals

Thanks, i will give Morey's Diesel Smoke Killer a go and will see if it increases regeneration intervals

Mate, I didn't switch from one to the other, I'm using both at once, which seems to work.

Andrei:
It is illegal to remove any anti-pollution stuff from your car. That said, how are they to know that you have blocked off the EGR pipe? I am looking to do this with my Pajero but am concerned about possible side effects. Pollution is not an issue with me because the car rarely goes near a city.

Regarding boost, I think it is about 18 psi maximum, but the actual level depends on engine revs. I get momentary boost to 22 psi, but then I think the ECu pulls it back to around 18 max. You only get that if you are towing my caravan, or going up a long steep hill. Most hills which will bringon max boost are normally too winding to allow you to use max output anyway 'cause you have to back off for corners.

It is because there is a variable vane turbo on the thing that I bought a Scangauge. I have read that it can clear codes, but as yet I haven't had the need to do so (I haven't blocked off the EGR). From what I have read on Pajeroclub.com.au, the CEL doesn't seem to come on with the later (NW) pajeros, but it certainly used to with the NS and NT models. I have emailed off to suppliers about getting a blanking plate but as yet they don't want my business....

Because you have a blanking plate fitted, it is possible that there is more blowby when the engine is on the overrun. This could cause more oil in your catch can.

Blanking plate shouldn't affect how much blow by gases you get under load, as anything past 10 (or 15%)% of throttle and EGR valve is closed anyhow to prevent air from getting into the exhaust via the EGR valve due to boost which turbo will start to generate under load.

If you have the space available, ie: 4 x 4 sized vehicle, these systems
http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=Technical
are claimed to increase combustion efficiency to approx 95% and reduce soot emissions which should in theory mean less work for the DPF.

Cheers

Hahaha you wont believe it. I have received recall letter from Mitsubishi. Excessive blow by gasses from EGR may cause carbon deposits to form on piston rings, heat up, deform and cause engine damage. Fix is to bring the car back to the dealer to get "software upgrade" which will reduce EGR flow to safe amount.

I dont think DUH! will quite cut it.

"Thank you for being a Beta tester for the ASX."

Signed . . . the Mitsu Engineering Division

Doesn't instill much confidence in Mitsu development of the diesel in this form.

"Thank you for being a Beta tester for the ASX."

Signed . . . the Mitsu Engineering Division

Doesn't instill much confidence in Mitsu development of the diesel in this form.

Yea exactly, now i have to get the car to the dealer to fix an issue that was OBVIOUS