Before taking the car for it's rego I thought I would fix up the tiny leak from the rocker box cover near the water pump.

So I removed the cover cleaned it all up and used some gasket stuff I bought because the sealastic I used a year ago had dried up even though I put the cap on properly.

First time I put the cover back on oil pissed out everywhere.
Did it again and this time I only had a little come out so it needs doing again but I thought I would get the inspection done and if there wasn't too much work to be done I would do the cover then.
Half way to the garage there was a rattling start from under the hood. It was difficult to change gear and then suddenly I couldn't. The clutch was going in and out ok but it wouldn't go into gear.
I couldn't see a problem when I looked so I tried again to no avail. I put the car into gear and started it again with the clutch depressed. Cant do that in an auto.
I let the clutch out slowly and moved forward so I threw a U'ey and started to drive home very slowly in first. Sometimes I had to stop for lights, traffic etc, and when I used the clutch the car would stop but it was still engaging a little as the car would want to move forward.
When I got home I backed the car into the garage by turning it off putting it in reverse and backing in.

Is there any chance this has been caused by the oil leaking from the rockerbox cover and falling over the transmission or is the gearbox really fubar?

Not related to rocker cover.
More like no brake fluid, or failed master clutch or clutch slave cylinder.

Master cylinder is only a couple of months old. I will check the slave as I have a new one sitting on my shelf.
Thanks.

Well I got the old one off and connected the fluid line to the new one but I am having a problem putting it back on. I can't get the clutch lever back far enough for the slave cylinder to slot into place.
I am also worried now that even if I do it means that the clutch will be permanently engaged slightly, any thoughts on this?

Disconnect the fluid line, then put it onto the gearbox. Just push the rod back in, without fluid in it that should be easy to do.
Once filled with fluid and bled, it should be ok. If you find the clutch pedal doing strange things, adjust freeplay at the clutch pedal.

take the line off again. Now why didn't I think of that?

Nope it doesn't make any difference. The plunger of the slave cylinder is in as far as it will go and the clutch arm lever just won't move back enough to get the cylinder into position. It is only about 1 mm stopping it but that is enough.
When I changed the clutch a year ago I followed the advice about putting a washer onto the ball part for the clutch arm but it seems to me now that may be the problem? With a new master cylinder and slave cylinder the arm is now raised too much?
The arm goes about half way in the window like it said to do in the replacing clutch instructions.
FOr the sake of 1 mm I am close to pouring petrol over it and setting it alight.

Have you tried shining a torch into the bell housing to see if the clutch arm lever is properly connected to the ball part & the release bearing?

if it wasn't it wouldn't have been working properly for the last 12 months would it? And if it wasn't the arm would be floating around loose, it does move forward and back ok just not back far enough now. No I don't think that is the problem thanks.

Well something has obviously worn out by the sounds of it. Sounds like you need an adjustable slave cylinder rod that can be adjusted to suit.

Cheers

The second gen clutch is a pain. It's fine out of the factory, but when you get to replace worn bits, it can do all sorts of weird things. I must have just been lucky with mine when I put two 2 mm washers under that ball pivot to get it right.
Short of replacing the clutch plate, pressure plate, ball pivot and lever arm, it becomes a guessing game.

Did the new slave cylinder come with a new push rod? If so, compare it in length to the original. A shorter rod would be nice, personally, I'd break out my angle grinder and shorten it a bit.

Did the new slave cylinder come with a new push rod? If so, compare it in length to the original. A shorter rod would be nice, personally, I'd break out my angle grinder and shorten it a bit.

No it didn't come with a new rod or boot cover. I compared the two before I put the new one in and they appear to be exactly the same size even with the push rod in. I am having horrible thoughts of having to pull it all apart again, something I definitely don't want to do, especially as I don't know if I will have to do any major work to get it through rego.
It won't take me months again to do it but it is not something I want to do in a hurry

It's a waste of time too if the engine is going to pack up soon because of no rust inhibitors

I did try checking through the inspection hole as Max Diver suggested but couldn't see anything, might try to get a dentists mirror.
If everything is working properly should I be able to push the lever back by hand and feel the plate move? Maybe I am just not strong enough or maybe diver is right and the lever has come off and I need to strip it all down. I just don't know what to do.

take a bit off the base or top of the push rod to make it fit

if you get problems after the inspection .. then worry about it ... ...at the end of the day

its only a mm you want off to fit the slave .. then you have a car for now

take one day at a time .

Yeah thanks I did think about it but I also thought about the fact that one minute the car was working perfectly and the next minute it wasn't. That's why I was asking if I should be able to push the arm back by hand. It maybe that something is wrong with the clutch itself as I seem to remember that a slave cylinder on it's way out makes things spongy before actually going and that never happened. Come to think of it I did have trouble getting the old one out and maybe I did knock the clutch arm off.

I am going to see about getting a dentists mirror tomorrow and using that to inspect the clutch a bit better.

Half way to the garage there was a rattling start from under the hood.
If your driving along and the above happened i doubt it would be anything to do with either end linkages.
They donot do anything while your moving to make a rattle sound under the bonnet.
Unless the slave one popped out and was vibrating against the motor/gearbox housing.
Sounds more like the clutch throw out bearing or something else that has come loose Imo.
On another note:
As for using silastic gaskets. Both surfaces have to been clean of any old oil residue. I clean mine with wax and grease remover and never get any problems. Vee

I managed to get a nice little inspection mirror on a telescopic handle with a movable head for just $2.50 from my local $2 shop. Didn't help much at all so I think I might have to strip it down to see what's happening. At least I could finally see that the fork is still on the ball.
When this happened I said I had to turn the engine off and put it in gear and then start it. I kept m foot on the clutch but the car would still move forward, albeit slowly. Does this sound like the clutch itself was sticking or what the call clutch grab?
If that's the case maybe the oil got inside it?
If that happened can it be cleaned cause the manual says fit a new clutch?

You will have to open it up again to see what happened, unfortunately.
Oil on the clutch plate is a possibility, but I've cleaned one up with petrol and it worked ok afterwards.

Have the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel come loose? Can you see with the mirror?

you are very capable ..

if there is oil on the clutch the rear seal needs to be replaced that means flywheel off

can you do this ?

you did have trouble back then after fitting ...

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1428502#poststop

No Madmax can't see if the bolts have come loose but I wouldn't be surprised if the have because I didn't use a torque wrench when I put everything back together.
If they are loose then I will see once I have it all off *sigh*

Thanks Magnabuff, yes I can do it but I don't have the strength or energy. At least now I know what I am doing having done it twice already and I have the tools so weather permitting I am hoping to have it done in a couple of days but probably a week. Will start tomorrow if it isn't raining.

you are very capable ..

if there is oil on the clutch the rear seal needs to be replaced that means flywheel off

can you do this ?

you did have trouble back then after fitting ...

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1428502#poststop

The manual doesn't say anything about the flywheel or a seal?

if the clutch does have oil soak or seal is leaking oil ....then this seal needs to be replaced


if you have a gregories its in the engine rebuild section
flywheel /drive plate removal page 74
rear crankshaft seal page 66

6 bolts to undo for the flywheel 17 mm .. bolts tension 130-140 nm... easily rounded as the heads of the bolts are not high but flat

then the seal is a in a carrier frame ...10 mm bolts

Yep I have the Gregory's and read page 74. It doesn't mention anything about a seal but there it all is on page 66 just like you said. Drat and double drat.
So what you are saying is that if the clutch grab is being caused by oil on the clutch it has come from the crank shaft and not by oil from the rocker box cover dripping into it?
I find that hard to accept because it was all running ok until the engine got covered in oil from the rocker box cover. It would be a huge coincidence if the crankshaft oil seal went at exactly the same time. Anyway I will have the tranny off within the hour and should be able to see with any luck.
I am not going to be able to do the flywheel seal so if that is what it is I will have to scrap the car and hope I win my court case next month and get enough money to buy another car. That is if I don't die of another heart attack first 'cause of walking up the hill to the shops. I had to take the day off doing things yesterday and spend most of it in bed cause the old ticker was giving as much trouble as the car lol.

This may sound like a stupid question but if there is no fluid in the transmission that wouldn't cause the clutch to grab would it?
It's just that before when I parted the bell housing from the engine the transmission fluid leaked out everywhere. It was the easiest way to drain it as the drain plug is on the side and I wasn't able to get it off and wouldn't have been able to get the fluid out properly anyway.

This time when I parted the bell housing no fluid at all came out so that means the the tranny was dry but that wouldn't affect the clutch would it?

Have you been able to confirm if there is any fluid in the tranny? If their is no fluid in the transmission then some of it may have leaked past the gearbox input shaft seal and found it's way to the clutch plate which would then cause it to grab. The clutch may also grab due to wear or rusting of the clutch disc hub splines (usually on vehicles that aren't driven that often) or gearbox input shaft splines. Having no fluid in the tranny would place extra load on the clutch as the gearbox bearings would run hot due to increased friction/lack of lubricating fluid which would then lead to bearing failure.

Have you been able to confirm if there is any fluid in the tranny? If their is no fluid in the transmission then some of it may have leaked past the gearbox input shaft seal and found it's way to the clutch plate which would then cause it to grab. The clutch may also grab due to wear or rusting of the clutch disc hub splines (usually on vehicles that aren't driven that often) or gearbox input shaft splines. Having no fluid in the tranny would place extra load on the clutch as the gearbox bearings would run hot due to increased friction/lack of lubricating fluid which would then lead to bearing failure.

Oh great news thanks. The first time I did the rocker box cover gasket I went out for about 3 ks and then put the car back in the garage.
A couple of hours later I took my friend home and when I got back and opened the garage door saw a small pool of oil I assumed had leaked from the rocker box cover and dripped down. After reading your post I think it is most likely to be tranny fluid. I remember wondering at the time how that much oil could leak out and drip down the engine.
*sigh*

By the way, that's not something I have ever heard happen before so what would be likely to cause it?

Repaired a friends LJ Torana gearbox back in the late 70's. It had an input shaft bearing noise due to low fluid level in the gearbox. As the input shaft sat at the top of the gearbox it was receiving very little splash lubrication due to the low fluid level. When we stripped it down the bearing cage that holds the ball bearings in place had broken and the bearing assembly was a nice straw brown/blue colour from the heat generated. This in turn had heat damaged the input shaft oil seal which sat alongside the bearing. Whilst not a common everyday problem it can happen. When we were fitting the clutch assembly we found the clutch splines were a such tight fit on the gearbox input shaft it wouldn't slide properly so we had to remove some manufacturing (machining) burrs from clutch plate splines. Once again not a common everyday problem. As for the sticking clutch plates this normally happens on vehicles which are left sitting idle for months on end (club registered vehicles hobby vehicles) and either the clutch face sticks to the flywheel or the clutch splines stick to the input shaft splines. Once again not a common everyday problem. In the past before installing a clutch assembly I've always checked the clutch is free too slide on the input shaft splines and smeared a tiny amount of high temp wheel bearing grease over the splines before wiping it off with a rag.

well I can safely say that the car hadn't been sitting for months, it had been driven almost everyday if only for a few ks. The clutch is fairly new and I have been using it for the last 12 months without a problem. What I don't understand is where the fluid would leak out from as the puddle it was directly under the centre of the engine.
After it had leaked out I only drove the car about 1/2 a K and then parked it overnight. The next day I drove it about 2 k's when the trouble started and then I drove it very slowly back in first gear. The engine hadn't even reached normal working temp.
So I am hoping that maybe the gearbox isn't stuffed but where would the leak be, not the end cover?

Well in between all the rain and sickness etc etc I finally got the clutch housing off again just 15 months after I put it on and guess what I found?
A broken spring. Some of the flaps that hold the springs in also bent.
So this is probably why the clutch lever didn't return properly as the broken spring was probably jamming it up.

So what would cause a spring to break just a year after installation?

I still can't see where the transmission oil would have leaked out from though.
One thing is that the locating lug? on the left side broke off when I lowered the **** and there was oil around it. Is that going to be a problem?

are you saying the pressure plate collapsed ..damage to the the new clutch is possible
if not aligned properly on fitting or the input shaft bending the pressure plate diaphram or while not getting the box in straight

the locator dowel makes it easier to refit the box .....one from a wrecker might be found

The oil does it smell like gearbox oil or engine oil ....we were talking rear engine seal a few months ago ..the gearbox has a front seal on the input shaft

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/Mitsubishi/download.jpg (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/magnabuff/media/Mitsubishi/download.jpg.html)

are you saying the pressure plate collapsed ..damage to the the new clutch is possible
if not aligned properly on fitting or the input shaft bending the pressure plate diaphram or while not getting the box in straight

the locator dowel makes it easier to refit the box .....one from a wrecker might be found

The oil does it smell like gearbox oil or engine oil ....we were talking rear engine seal a few months ago ..the gearbox has a front seal on the input shaft

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/Mitsubishi/download.jpg (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/magnabuff/media/Mitsubishi/download.jpg.html)
That is my problem. There is no visible oil but when I pick up the clutch disk I get a dirty oil like stain on my fingers but it is grey rather than black.

Recapping what I have is.
puddle of oil or probably transmission fluid on ground.
Clutch stuffed.
Stuffed clutch was broken spring and will have to be replaced.

Bolts were loose when removing pressure plate but I thought I had read that they shouldn't be overtightened.
But that probably cause of clutch stuffing up.

No fluid in transmission. Could be a coincidence and separate problem.
Bolts around housing were not properly tightened.
Remember I had to tighten the starter motor bolts a few months back? I did tighten the others but maybe not enough.
That dreaded reverse bolt at the back of the transmission was missing as I thought the hole was just the locator plug. No bolts would tighten up in it.
Discovered it does need a bolt. Housing would move every time clutch was pressed so that may be cause of transmission fluid leak?

It is hard to know whether to fix this or buy a sedan because I can't find a manual wagon with the same sort of space in the back. They are all glorified hatchbacks and I hate them.
But fixing it may be a waste of time if I can't find the cause of the leak.
$200 for a new clutch kit is a lot of money to waste.
Oh woe is me.

till you decide on another car
might try and find the nm on the clutch bolts
I cant say the gearbox has had much damage without oil because you havent done the kms
grey oil may be engine or gearbox oil with some clutch metal in it .....
i cant find a front gear box seal as a part ......off to look at the repair manual
and try and find the right bolt ..one . that is missing

Did you know you could buy a clutch or pressure plate from a wrecker - to do for now
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah_au ....Quote
That is my problem. There is no visible oil but when I pick up the clutch disk I get a dirty oil like stain on my fingers but it is grey rather than black.

Recapping what I have is.
puddle of oil or probably transmission fluid on ground.
Clutch stuffed.
Stuffed clutch was broken spring and will have to be replaced.

Bolts were loose when removing pressure plate but I thought I had read that they shouldn't be overtightened.
But that probably cause of clutch stuffing up.

No fluid in transmission. Could be a coincidence and separate problem.
Bolts around housing were not properly tightened.
Remember I had to tighten the starter motor bolts a few months back? I did tighten the others but maybe not enough.
That dreaded reverse bolt at the back of the transmission was missing as I thought the hole was just the locator plug. No bolts would tighten up in it.
Discovered it does need a bolt. Housing would move every time clutch was pressed so that may be cause of transmission fluid leak?

It is hard to know whether to fix this or buy a sedan because I can't find a manual wagon with the same sort of space in the back. They are all glorified hatchbacks and I hate them.
But fixing it may be a waste of time if I can't find the cause of the leak.
$200 for a new clutch kit is a lot of money to waste.
Oh woe is me.

oh I have the right bolt. Just might have put it in the wrong hole. After I finished I actually had two bolts left over. I couldn't find where they went and thought someone was playing a joke on me. Someone had made a comment about always having parts left over and I replied if you do it right you have nothing left over. I should have listened to my own advice.

Yeah I might look at getting one from a wreckers but they are so far from where I live near the city and I don't know what to look for to make sure it won't fall apart in 5 mins. I hear what you are saying though. Should hold long enough to see if the oil leak was a result of loose bolts.
Just the thought of doing it all over again when that one goes.
I will take the fly wheel off and see what is behind door #3.
Cheers

the repair manual mentions a gearbox seal and an o ring
but not clear in the exploded view
it is in the part where the pivot arm for the thrust bearing rests over
..
Pressure plate to flywheel 15-21 nm
engine bolts to gearbox 43-55 nm

$154 clutch kit . from WA

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-92-94-2-6L-TR-4-cyl-8V-SOHC-EFI-Eng-code-4G54-CLUTCH-KIT-/271455207244?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f33fdbf4c&_uhb=1