Is this possible to do without breaking the fuel level sender and float?

I guess I should have dropped the fuel tank.

Secondly does anyone have access to a spare level sensor and float or fuel pump assembly. Sadface.

Ps still no posting pics on this server?

Cheers,
Aj

this is an unusual situation for you to be in

for now- if stuck you should be able to refit the pump/sender frame without it leaking
even so you must have to drop the fuel support strap thread down a ways for best result
this is the 4cyl sedans tank ..Do you have this much room or is there a difference


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/8e91maa.jpg (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/magnabuff/media/8e91maa.jpg.html)
fuel pump V6 TS
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/_57-1.jpg (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/magnabuff/media/_57-1.jpg.html)

Good to see you're still around!!

It's a my second car so no rush, i just may need to replace the unit before I put it back in.

You can see how it sits at the moment. It may still work if I can clip it back in, though I take it the coiled wire outputs upon it's resistance upon the spring.

Given the difficulty to install/remove I don't want to put it back in if it doesn't work.

I have less room than that, i'm pretty sure.

So I should've dropped the fuel tank a bit???

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/ajwasherein2001/Mobile%20Uploads/20140619_195407.jpg (http://s931.photobucket.com/user/ajwasherein2001/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140619_195407.jpg.html)
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/ajwasherein2001/Mobile%20Uploads/20140619_194656.jpg (http://s931.photobucket.com/user/ajwasherein2001/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140619_194656.jpg.html)
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/ajwasherein2001/Mobile%20Uploads/20140619_194646.jpg (http://s931.photobucket.com/user/ajwasherein2001/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140619_194646.jpg.html)

Thinking about it, I needed to guide the float with my hand as I pulled it out.

the float was the problem alright -- needs room under the car ... to twist the whole unit around before extraction

a second hand must be required to press the float and arm closer to the unit as it comes out

possibly out a bit - a bit side ways--- and from there what ever works

will have to drop the tank a bit more if you have less room than in the picture

I am also working on the fuel tank to replace a seized fuel pump.
Mine is a 1995 verada KS sedan and its stuck in my tiny garage.

I can barely creep under the torsion beam and got dizzy having to look at the bits and pieces from a wrong perspective.
Only managed to spray penetrant on all the flare nuts and screws (to hopefully make things easier).

I find the space is very tight and am thinking it might be better to drop the fuel tank completely.
That way it will be easier to remove / install the pump assembly.

I am curious as to how the electrical plug is secured.
(going by magna buff's pictures it looks like its just tab locked).

The electrical plug looks like its covered by some kind of plastic boot.
I'll take some scope pictures tomorrow and post them.

yes it looks like a boot

the second picture shows the clip on the V6 fuel unit-- as a typical magna connection

yes Aqua you are in a tight work area ..the screws are unforgiving
. if you can ...drop the tank down more ..

that black stuff may be rust treatment or body deadening

I had a faulty fuel pump on the TN, I took the tank out gave a good clean out, didn't want to leave any dirt, also a nice coat of white paint. Makes the job of fitting a new pump a lot easier

After putting some blocks under the rear wheels I find the access greatly improved.
If you then jack up the chassis you get a bit more working room.
Doing that, it looks quite possible to extract the fuel pump from the in situ fuel tank.

Still, I think its better to remove the whole fuel tank, as suggested by dennystone 12, and give the whole tank a good clean.

I did take some pictures of the plug and its the same as per the V6 photo from magna buff.
http://i.imgur.com/DUHejTLl.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/5ASn6P4l.jpg

which way does that pump--- need to come out without damage

how did you clear the float and unit through the hole

Car is clean because its been in the garage ever since the fuel pump gave up the ghost.
Just before that I pressure cleaned the under body (I do like clean cars!).

credit goes to you for having such a clean car underneath

A little bit more progress info about removing the fuel tank (in case of interest!).

You need a 14 mm - deep socket or pipe spanner to get at the nuts that hold the front fuel tank straps (of course I didn't have them!).
At the back there are 2 securing brackets and also the straps are hinged.
I think the possible swing arc on the hinges is quite limited (maybe 10 to 15 degrees).
Probably intended to just lower the tank by unscrewing the front mounting nuts to the bottom of the bolts.

http://i.imgur.com/9EcUOAKl.jpg

Great to see that you have such a clean underside to work on, the straps fit into slots not hinged

Did you get the pipe nuts off? I had to cut mine.

Impossibly tight vs my level of patience. Even with spray penetrate.

right --cutting off the fuel pipe nuts -- Oxy or Angle grinder hahaha :chainsaw:


Is there any room to use two brake pipe spanners - in a grip action

no doubt as tight as the fuel filter nuts

Great to see that you have such a clean underside to work on, the straps fit into slots not hinged

By hinged I meant that the slots have some clearance that allows the straps to rotate on the pins hanging inside the slot (albeit through a small arc).
I am presuming that this is to allow the front of the fuel tank to swing down on lowering the front mounting bolt nuts.

Hopefully doing that, plus putting the rear wheels on 200mm high blocks and then jacking up the chassis a bit more, will give some working clearance to undo one of the flare nuts on the fuel line.
When you jack up the chassis, the anti roll bar lifts up on one end and this makes for one nice scissor like instrument with the torsion beam.
Should your chassis stands fail this might scissor your hands off, hence I am doubling up on the chassis stands to feel safer.

right --cutting off the fuel pipe nuts -- Oxy or Angle grinder hahaha :chainsaw:


Is there any room to use two brake pipe spanners - in a grip action

no doubt as tight as the fuel filter nuts

Yes, they are tight, if you undo the one nearest the pump, put a small piece of wood between the hose and the tank, it stops it from breaking the metal pipe

Those flare nut couplings are impossibly tight.

There was no way I could undo the one nearest to the fuel tank as there just isn't the space to get any kind of leverage on the spanners.
I gave up and tried the one on the other end of the hose as there is a little bit more space there.

Here you can block the 19 mm spanner against the boot wall and then get some leverage on the 14 mm flare nut spanner.
Despite that, you have to be an absolute brute and hope nothing breaks.
In the end I did get that one undone but the fuel pipe seems to have become misaligned in the process.

To me the rubber hose seems kind of soft for a high pressure hose, but maybe that is normal for this coupling.
Wouldn't mind knowing what others have to say on this bit of hose.

I didn't expect this mess.
The whole inside of the fuel tank is encrusted with a brittle brown/black tar like substance.
Although hard to tell, there doesn't appear to be any sign of rust inside the tank.

The fuel pump itself was unrecognisably covered in the same stuff.
Presumably the same crap has deposited on the inside of the fuel pump and caused it to seize.
Anyone have any ideas how to clean the inside of the fuel tank?
Only thing I can think of is to try an use my pressure cleaner - hope there are no breakable baffles on the inside.

http://i.imgur.com/awaUwY0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q0lObWM.jpg

some one has been there before you -- and just replaced the pump motor and wiring

that special holding clip at the top of the mounting plate - looks too new -the gauze isnt clogged as much as you would expect

your fuel filter and injectors must have suffered

yes pressure cleaner -- then a bottle of metho to evaporate the water inside

have to wait a few days to dry out

sad to hear the tank has to come out

no rust ..hmmm that isnt rust preventative stuff is it ..tossed in the tank and swished around

This whole mess is my own fault as I left the car sitting in the garage for over 10 years.
The fuel in the tank went bad, but unfortunately I didn't know that it would degrade.

I also had the thought that it might be a rust preventative coating .
But dismissed it because it is brittle and grainy and loose.
When you rub it some will flake off and some bits disintegrate - staining the water rust brown.

If it is a rust preventative coating it would be a factory applied treatment.

I think these deposits might be components of the fuel that have settled out and have slowly been deposited onto any galvanised surfaces.
That retaining clip is probably a different metal (stainless steel!) and is perfectly clean.

There are lots of baffles in this tank and it is impossible to get behind them with a pressure cleaner.
The pressure cleaning did nicely remove this stuff on all the accessible surfaces.
Maybe 60% clean but the 40% remaining still makes the tank not fit for purpose.

I need another way the remove this substance.

ten years sitting with old fuel does that ..Wow

dont know of a product ..that can soak off the inside the tank .. but not affect the metal

if you were to use a chemical cleaner there is no way of seeing the hidden sides of the baffles

CLR is only a scale cleaner ..a diluted Acid would be too harsh

trip to a wrecker for another tank .....is an option

Another tank would be the way to go, that tank may develop leaks

Already making enquiries with the local wreckers, but so far no luck at all.
Not even for the magna TS version (which may have the same fuel tank).

Tank already seems to be rusting on the cleaned areas, but these tarry deposits also leach brown so ?

Picture taken with an endoscope - looking at the filler tube.
http://i.imgur.com/KLyeNNz.jpg

do you mind sourcing from NSW

theres two tr/ts wrecking on ebay- there is trading post wrecking-- and also gumtree if lucky

Wrecking whole car
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-VERADA-4-CYLINDER-OR-V6-TR-TS-RADIATOR-WRECKING-WHOLE-CAR-/281197767321?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4178b16a99&_uhb=1

depends on where you are in the ACT
http://www.yellowpages.com.au/act/dodsworth/queanbeyan-auto-dismantlers-13223650-listing.html
http://search.mail.com/find?q=canberra+wreckers&lang=en&ae=00000&at=4&ab=2&from=adm149

I was most surprised that I could not source a second hand fuel tank from a local car wrecker.
There was a station wagon at one wrecker but its fuel tank had separate holes for the fuel pump and sender.
Since mine is a sedan I suspect it wouldn't fit anyway (but no-one here knows for sure).

If wreckers in NSW have one and will freight it at reasonable cost I am quite willing to do a deal.
I will do some more searching and follow up on those links (thanks for that - already send an email to rural recycling).

When I removed the fuel pump from the bracket, underneath the rubber end cap / filter retainer, there was a very thick and very sticky black goo.
So looks like this stuff is definely some form of crystalline tar.
Its very hard to dissolve even with acetone, new gasoline and mineral turps.

Its an interesting excercise and hopefully it informs others not to make this stupid mistake.
I do wish I had given this job some priority many years ago.

Going to Flynns Wrecking Yard in Cooma to pickup a fuel tank.
They want $221 so I hope its the right one and good one!

The hunt for a fuel tank was pretty dismal, none to be found in Canberra, and almost all interstate wreckers didn't bother to reply.

Just a tidbit:
I found that soaking the asphaltine coated fuel pump in cleaning vinegar gave a reaction that loosens the stuff.
Plan B therefore is/was to slosh around some aquarium gravel in cleaning vinegar and hopefully dislodge and clean more crud out of the tank.

wish there was a company close by for you that could -- dip clean then galve --the whole tank

Yes, I also wish we had more industrial services here.

There may well be something around that could at least help clean the tank (a radiator cleaning facility?).
But I've shied away from that option at the moment because:
1) Not sure it would get at the asphaltine (apparently you need to steam heat).
2) Probably looking at $200 anyway once you add cost of cleaning and a fuel tank liner/coating.
3) I think I am better of with a tank that hasn't been pitted by acidic bad fuel for 12 years.

I'll post a picture of the cleaned pump bracket that shows such pitting on a bit of the internal fuel line (took me a day to scrape/clean that bracket!).
That scenario would also be present on the fuel tank walls, and those areas are bound to be a recipe for developing leaks with a simple anti rust coating.

An interesting problem, but one I could have done without for sure.

sorry to hijack the thread, having a tj magna wagon now, have found when dropping the tank, its best to jack up both sides ( if you have enough jacks and stands ) as well as after that ( with a 3rd jack ) jack the axle up a little, gives good access when dropping the tank, this procedure may be just as good for just removing the pump too ( unfortunately, having done all this, and reinstalled everything, am yet again to may have to do this all over, as the pump keeps jamming........could also be an electrical problem from anywhere from front of the car to the rear plug that plugs into the pump )...anyways best get back to it, just thought i'd throw it out there incase it helps anyone in the future....hooroo