Ok so my brother needed my fuel container in which he filled it up with water. Me not knowing, needed fuel and put the water in the fuel tank. I've driven few weeks with it and noticed that it sounds like it's missing every now and then. In idle you can notice it. But wasnt so bad, again, I still don't know about the water. But moreso lately it's gotten worse and worse to the point where if I put any more than half throttle the engine will just stall. It's as soon as I put a some throttle into it, every time..

he then told me.
-So the first thing I did was replace my fuel filter, car worked fine for two or three days then went exactly the same as it was before.
-I've removed the fuel pump and sucked out all the fuel/water that was still left in there out, but can see like rusted bits on the bottom of the tank.

But still the same.. Car is a TL Magna
Any help would be appreciated

I don't know. Likely someone who does will answer shortly. I think along the line that the computer reads input from various sensors and set things accordingly. You've sucked the contaminated fuel out and refilled with good fuel and tried and found it still runs not so good. If there's not too much fuel in there what about putting in a couple of litres of metho and high octane additive to the fuel and just let it run to see if it in time clears?

Remove fuel tank from car and wash out with steam to remove rust. Dry thoroughly.
Clean filter sock on fuel pump.
Blow out all fuel lines with compressed air.
Replace fuel filter again.
Remove fuel injectors and clean.
Reassemble car.
Add fresh fuel.
Smack brother in the mouth.

on another cheaper note, that might work if this hasent been for too long, there is a product called flash lube, it works great for recent water/fuel issues. just use as directed by the bottle, and use a couple of bottles. after as/above, smack brother in the mouth :P

-Filter sock on fuel pump has been cleaned
-tried metho

How would one go about blowing out the fuel lines?
And is cleaning injectors something you can do yourself? Or does it have to get professionally cleaned?

Ps Smacking him in the mouth is compulsory I know. Lol

Also I eliminated that the problem was the tank itself, as I pulled the fuel pump out connected the fuel filter and connected the fuel line. I put the fuel pump in a bucket of clean petrol and started the car that way, still same problem when I put over 50% throttle.

Sounds like the fuel pump is stuffed and not able to pump at a high enough pressure. Can you fit a pressure gauge somewhere and see what it is doing?

I have a TH magna would it be worth swapping over and trying that?

I'd give it a go. Easier than swapping injectors and other stuff.

Tried it, no difference at all :(

first off how much water did you put in?

i hate to burst your bubble but it could be bad news, ive seen a few cars over the years with the same story as you...and all came with the same outcome except one....the rest all buckled engines.the one that was lucky will be explained below...

first, check for water in the engine oil mixing with each other, if its milky say bye bye....if not

i would read any error codes then go from there...

then this was done for the car that got saved

-remove inlet manifolds
-ultra sonic clean inlet manifolds
-clean inlet manifold chambers with petrol and allow to breath
-replace inlet manifold gaskets
-remove injectors, fuel rails and ultra sonic clean
-replace injector seals and tips
-replace fuel pressure regulator
-replace fuel lines rubber and hard lines
-replace fuel filler mouth/tounge
-replace fuel cap
-replace fuel tank
-replace fuel filter
-replace fuel pump
-replace spark plugs
-replace charcoal canister and lines
-replace ALL emissions valves and lines including, pcv, check, purge etc etc...
-inspect o2 sensors and replace if necessary
-replace engine oil and filter
-fill system up with 5 litres of 91 octane fuel and allow to idle for 30mins
-replace engine oil and filter
-fill system u FULL with 98-100octane and drive


its allot of work....the guy filled up a bad batch of fuel and magically got warranty and that was a rough list of what was done...so yeh

Probably about 4 L worth.. Checked for any milkiness, but doesn't look like it at all

1)Insult brother whilst conducting procedure.
2)Pull your front bank of plugs...check for globs of goo on them.
3)If goo found, repeat on rear.
4)Gut full of Subaru upper cylinder spray into open throttle body...half a can...to collect any remaining moisture in inlet system
5) Warn neighbours of impending large smog cloud
6) Crank and start
7) Empty remains of can through vacuum line at throttle body whilst revving.
IF she is good, stop here...
8) Remove charcoal canister and sit in the QLD sun for a day or 2 away from ignition sources
9) Refit and retry
10) Add 1Litre of metho to tank
11) Fill tank with 98 and injector cleaner (Full bottle)
12) If no run= big problems probably

(I'm a big fan of $2 solutions)

Let me get this advice straight jdisnow...

Put half a can of incompressible liquid into the intake of a non running engine and then start it up, to help FIX engine problem?

Putting any liquid into a stopped engine's intake and then starting it up = hydrolock, and BANG.

Follow the directions with the product and don't hydrolock the engine.

Or better still, keep flushing the entire fuel system over and over until there's no water ANYWHERE.

First thing I would do is test some fuel samples from the fuel rail with water detecting paste. No water - engine most likely stuffed, or water detected - keep flushing entire fuel system until it's gone.

One question to ask, is how far did the water and rust get in the system?
I'd start by pulling the front injectors and take it from there.

Is there a way to check how far into the system it got? Can you tell by looking at the injectors? Or is there a way to test them?
What's the easiest way to flush out the fuel system?

Running the fuel pump will circulate the fuel through the fuel rails and back to the tank via the pressure regulator. That should flush most of it out. Have you checked the fuel pressure regulator? It may have become jammed open if rust got into it, letting the pressure escape. Should be able to check it for leakage from the fuel rail to the return hose just by pulling it off the car and seeing if petrol runs freely through it.

Where is the fuel pressure regulator? Lol sorry

Let me get this advice straight jdisnow...

Put half a can of incompressible liquid into the intake of a non running engine and then start it up, to help FIX engine problem?

Putting any liquid into a stopped engine's intake and then starting it up = hydrolock, and BANG.

.

Flyboy I won't debate you on the compressability of newtonian vs non-newtonian fluids just yet......however the next time someone sprays "Start ya bastard" down a carby i will of course warn them of your dire predictions of death...besides...these fluids turn into gasses by evaporation in about a minute..

The subby head cleaner is actually hydroscopic, ie it is water absorbing, thus eliminating the possibility of water inside the intake...Beyond that its made out of compressible hydrocarbons, but i digress...

The vehicle (during posts by the originator) had been running subsequently for "A FEW WEEKS" after water injestion, and the tank can be eliminated as the source, given that the problem can be replicated with the fuel pump sitting in a bucket of fuel (also originator.) and originator states it also ran after the tank had been drained.

So, why the subby head cleaner you ask???...Given the originator had a previous recent post about the same car running rotten following first start in 7 months...i would hazard a guess that it isnt water related at all....possibly a piece of the "rust and crap" from the bottom of the tank is lodged somewhere in the fuel system..

Does anyone know if there is a "last chance" screen in the fuel system after the filter? If so, where is it?

Procedure above will eliminate intake full of muck producing the problem, as well as drying out any potential residual fuel in the canister, and find out if plugs fouled from stale fuel.

-So the first thing I did was replace my fuel filter, car worked fine for two or three days then went exactly the same

A *sort of friend* (the ones that only visit when they need your help) bought a Suzuki 900cc van (AKA death trap) - the seller sold it cheap as it wouldn't go - but had great custom paint job. It had no fuel cap and had sat out in Cyclone Oswald, the seller had got it to start but it didn't run long before it stopped.

The *sort of friend* and me (mostly me) found the fuel filter totally blocked - fitted a new one - it ran - for maybe 10 minutes? and stopped - the new filter was blocked.

So the *friends* wallet paid for a removable bowl filter and I think he emptied it at least once a day for weeks and weeks before all the rust and gunk cleared up and the little van ran well.

So what I'm saying is the replacement filter is possibly re-blocking, due to all the rust in the tank from the water and the emulsion you get with fuel/water mix. Maybe try and get a visible fuel filter that you can fit in line or as a replacement to see if it is blocking up.

JDISNOW, You can turn it into a physics argument if you like and I will happily engage (just so I can feel like I'm getting my money's worth from my science degree) but the simple fact is the technique you described is incorrect.
Spraying half a can into the intake of a cold engine to where most will adiabatically condense into a liquid is risking hydrolock.

Perhaps you should have cut and paste the instructions.

THE ENGINE IS FIRST WARMED TO OPERATING TEMPERATURE. The hot engine is then STOPPED, half the can is sprayed in to the HOT intake. Then the car is NOT started until a certain time, allowing it to evaporate by absorbing the ambient heat.

Then the car is started again with no risk of hydrolock.

And lastly, you can spray it all you like down the intake - but it won't make a difference. The fuel gets injected right before the intake valve, not way up near the throttle body. The engine has been run, so any tiny traces of water between the injector and intake valve evaporated a long time ago.

Either there is still fuel in the fuel system (my bet), or the engine is damaged.

4 L of water will sit on the bottom and be picked up by the fuel pump. It will be pumped to the fuel rail, the injectors will try to squirt it, excess pressure will send the water through the fuel return to the tank.

No magic potion will make the water disappear. What is needed is a strip down of the fuel system, a thorough clean and dry, and reassembly. Then the engine itself needs to be checked for water intake, like the spark plugs may need cleaning or replacing. Depending how good the fuel filter is (can it stand up to 60 psi water without the filtering element rupturing?) there may well be rust throughout the fuel system and engine too.

I would look at the spark plugs and injectors of the front bank to get an idea of how far the water/rust got, then pull off the fuel filter, cut it open and see how much water/rust it has picked up.

No magic potion will make the water disappear.

Methylated Spirits has been used for years to help remove water from fuel tanks. It will absorb water and still burn, the water exiting the exhaust as steam.

Nice theory. So he should put E10 in the car?

Not wanting to spark any arguments but metho being used to allow the water in a tank to mix in with the alcohol content has been around for many years:

http://autoexpert.com.au/buying-a-car/qa/how-do-i-fix-water-in-the-fuel-tank

Just so you know that the car that I started for first time in 7 months was my other magna.

Flyboy I won't debate you on the compressability of newtonian vs non-newtonian fluids just yet......however the next time someone sprays "Start ya bastard" down a carby i will of course warn them of your dire predictions of death...besides...these fluids turn into gasses by evaporation in about a minute..

The subby head cleaner is actually hydroscopic, ie it is water absorbing, thus eliminating the possibility of water inside the intake...Beyond that its made out of compressible hydrocarbons, but i digress...

The vehicle (during posts by the originator) had been running subsequently for "A FEW WEEKS" after water injestion, and the tank can be eliminated as the source, given that the problem can be replicated with the fuel pump sitting in a bucket of fuel (also originator.) and originator states it also ran after the tank had been drained.

So, why the subby head cleaner you ask???...Given the originator had a previous recent post about the same car running rotten following first start in 7 months...i would hazard a guess that it isnt water related at all....possibly a piece of the "rust and crap" from the bottom of the tank is lodged somewhere in the fuel system..

Does anyone know if there is a "last chance" screen in the fuel system after the filter? If so, where is it?

Procedure above will eliminate intake full of muck producing the problem, as well as drying out any potential residual fuel in the canister, and find out if plugs fouled from stale fuel.


Just so you know the car that wasn't started in 7mths was an entirely different magna altogether!

The first fuel filter I replaced I cut open and was full of rust. I ran my fuel pump into a bucket of clean petrol to the fuel line without the fuel filter and still the same.
So I'm pretty sure that eliminates the fuel tank and fuel filter?

Just in neutral u can tell as soon as you open throttle quicky it'll just die in the ass. Is there some way I can maybe post a video? Would that help?

Posting a video won't help.
Cleaning the fuel system will.
Have you looked at the front spark plugs and injectors yet?

Spark plugs look fine.. How or what is the best way to know an injector is fine?

Spark plugs look fine.. How or what is the best way to know an injector is fine?

Take one out and look at the end where the fuel sprays from, should be clean and the holes unblocked. (I'm guessing here, putting them on a test bench to check them in action would work best. But if any rust has passed that far, that is where the blockages would be. Of course, if you had a spare set of injectors, you could swap them over.)

Take them out and take to an auto electrician or EFI specialist.

But be aware that if you pay for them to be cleaned and tested, but there's still tiny traces of water and rubbish in your fuel system, you are wasting your time and they will be stuffed again.

Getting the fuel system tested for water and COMPLETELY clean should be done before any injector maintenance.

Take them out and take to an auto electrician or EFI specialist.

But be aware that if you pay for them to be cleaned and tested, but there's still tiny traces of water and rubbish in your fuel system, you are wasting your time and they will be stuffed again.

Getting the fuel system tested for water and COMPLETELY clean should be done before any injector maintenance.

Yes.
Clean the tank, clean the pump, blow out the fuel lines, replace the filter, clean the injectors, then add fresh fuel and start the car.
Starting the car without a good cleanout will just spead water/rust throughout the system again.

Any ideas on the best way to blow out the fuel lines?

Also how difficult would the tank be to take out without a hoist? It's a wagon too btw

Any ideas on the best way to blow out the fuel lines?

Compressed air. Blow out every fuel line and the fuel rail (off the engine).


Also how difficult would the tank be to take out without a hoist? It's a wagon too btw

When empty, they aren't too heavy. Hoist not needed. Two people can do it, I've seen it done. (Brother is helping, right?)

some things I've encountered with removing rails and injectors. It's a good idea to remove the fuel lines from both sides of the rail and pulling them out straight. This enables pushing the rail up in line with where the injectors are pointing. Locate and observe any spacers too. They can be a problem.. Before pushing the rail off, take a good look around the injectors and anything coming off and remove any debris so it doesn't enter the engine. keeps rags packed around to absorb spillage and don't smoke while doing it. A rubber spacer might be elft behind below or above the injector. Collect all together. It may be that a soak in a acetone kero (with orings, rubber spacers removed, have alook at then after washing in soap water. Prob replacing all round is a good idea but to get things going if they are not too old etc they often can be reused though it's not recommended.) mix and backflushing when holding the solenoid open briefly. The microfilters might clear to where you have all round a reasonable flow rate. Determine this and decide whether or not to have them procleaned. If you want to do it diy there are ways

guys, no need for arguments....


because he has RAN the car and driven the car the water is now through the entire fuel system and engine....he needs to do what i said before if he has hopes saving this car.....its timley and costly and still could not be a 100% fix......if he filled it and did not run the car, then a basic fuel filter, clean out of the tank would have done the trick but becuase it has been ran multiple times the water is now through the entire system

just my 2c worth

Wow, the discussions in this thread are amazing, guess I will never get those minutes back

We see this often, especially on cars with LPG systems which dont initially run on petrol prior to switching to gas after warm up, cheap asses use E10, drive on gas for 6 months, try petrol and it all stops.

IF you have rust in your tank REPLACE IT, dont clean it, flush it or bother trying anything with it, it is stuffed and is a bin job (or you could try blowing it up for fun but dont do this at home)

Remove tank, remove lines at the fuel rail, blow out as best as you can, use some Rostoff on the lines and blow that through. Inside the lines generally (and I say Generally) dont get rusty as they are coated unlike the tank which is not.

Remove fuel rail, remove injectors from rail and blow out the rail. Even if a little bit of water is in the injectors this will blow through pretty much as soon as clean fresh fuel is added.

Install new tank and NEW pump, not used one and not your old one. Fuel pumps as soon as they start sucking up water and other contaminants generally will no longer be any good for anything.

This above is what we do on these sorts of cars, I know your tank did not have water in it for very long but it does not take very long to do the damage. Most fuel filters although not water traps will prevent most of the water getting past BUT I have seen where even the fuel rail is corroded internally from water damage thus why you clean the total fuel system out.

Oh and yes,
Metho is a great thing to use if the contamination is minor and reasonably fresh but as soon as the rust starts Metho is useless
Not sure what the theory of spraying half a can of stuff into the inlet was, did not bother reading back that far but to be honest the chances of a hydro lock on a motor with half a can of cleaning fluid, a lot of which is just gas and some of which will evaporate while being sprayed is pretty dam remote especially given most of these cleaning tins are quite small. When we clean throttle bodies quite a bit of fluid will enter the inlet, we start the motor asap to stop the stuff running in open valves and then ending up in the engine oil. Takes quite a bit to lock the motor and at crank there would be no issues either

Now I just went and found that post, putting half a can of subaru upper cleaner will not harm the motor hot or cold but at the same time as is useful as pissing into the wind.

Even if there was moisture in the inlet manifold (not that I can see how) as soon as the car starts the air flow will soon dry that out.

The issue here is in the fuel system, not the intake system

Also, milky oil from engine immersion (not that this case is that either) will simply need a good oil change and perhaps a flush. HRD2GT did this twice, and twice I cleaned out his motor, both times engine was running when it sucked up a gut full of water from the dumb CAI that was installed, both times the engine survived fine. He did break 1 motor doing this but that was his old motor which had many hard miles on it.