Hi all just wonder what is better the 4 or 5 speed auto, just looking a KL Verada with a 5 speed auto with 185,000k's. Cheers

Only own a pair of 4 speed Magnas, so I don't know the difference.
The 4 speed has long gearing, which is great on the open road. Around town though, the 3 to 4 change is too close to the 60 kph limit, so if I get it into fourth and let the speed drop down to 55, it changes back to third. Back and forth, etc. Don't know if the 5 speed does that.

Can't help you but i'm interested in this topic. I have a 4 speed and I think 2nd gear is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. Who needs to do 170kph in 2nd?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Y5uazwtL8

The problem is the 50-80kph region, in 1st you're hitting the redline then, and 2nd it's not in the power curve. So if you have to overtake on an uphill 80kph section and behind a truck or some such, it's pretty sluggish until 80kph when it can start to lay down power. After that you're golden and can put the foot down at any time and move in a hurry

Shift patterns can be dealt with in the ECU. The standard 3->2 shift map for the 4 speed in particular doesn't look all that attractive to me, as WOT is required to force the downshift at any speed over about 40-50kmh.

Millenium7, I very much doubt 2nd gear is capable of that speed - 3rd yes.

I installed a 5 speed auto in my KH when the engine was changed to the 3.8. The gearbox seemed much smoother, and the gears are much better spaced. First is tiny, and the addition gear is positioned between 1 & 2 for a 4 speed. The engine does a little more revs at 100kph, but around town its a much more cohesive package. The INVECS seems smarter also.

Mike

The 5 speed will be the better of the two, without a doubt.

I've only driven the 380 5 speed which was amazingly smooth and intuitive compared to my 4 speed.

I think the 4 speed is suited to the motorways. 1st gear WOT is good but at normal speeds it will to hold 1st far too long that you're required to back off the throttle for it to change to 2nd which is quite annoying and in contrast to newer cars I've driven which change from 1st to 2nd asap for smoothness and fuel efficiency. Unless you can get it into 4th around town the car never really feels comfortable; it's hard to describe but it feels as though the car is being held back and just wants to hit the open road. I agree with Millenium7 that the WOT in 2nd below 80kph is very sluggish. Ability to downchange from 4th to 2nd at ~100 kph for quick overtaking is great however. You need to press your foot to the carpet pretty hard to get the downchange but then it just flies.

The four speed needs to wind out in first because second gear is so high. A pain around town, who needs 3,500 rpm in first? (tippy mode can be put in second for sedate takeoffs) On the other hand, having 3 speeds available on the open road is nice. I imagine the 5 speed doesn't have this problem at takeoff, and gives you 3 gears at 100 kph too.
As above, the 380 gearbox is smooth and always in the right gear. After a while you stop thinking about which gear it may be in, unlike the 4 speed Magna box.
If the 5 speed Magna box is anything like the 380 box, you are on a winner. Alas, I'm only driving the povo 4 speed models.

Issue with the 5sp Auto is they will jump into 5th at about 70kph, unless you drive on perfectly flat roads this is useless.

Millenium7, I very much doubt 2nd gear is capable of that speed - 3rd yes.

I have pulled a confirmed 160kph in 2nd (235/45/17) , so with slightly smaller tyres, yes it'll show 170

Well I hope that wasnt on the open road :)

I prefer the 5 speed, mainly as I am now a granny driver, so shifting into 5th so early isnt really an issue fir me....our old ralliart used to shift into 5th at 55km/h....def not suitable for that kind of car

5 speed all the way for me.....I miss the 6 speed of our old outlander

Issue with the 5sp Auto is they will jump into 5th at about 70kph, unless you drive on perfectly flat roads this is useless.

Mine (ralliart ECU) seems to get into 5th at 55 or so kph. With a 3.5 I would think this can bog the car down and become tedious, but no issues with the 3.8 it is actually preferable.

Mike

My 5speed auto drops into 5th as soon as 60kms. I normally let it reach 4th automatically then lock it there through the suburds. I drive it for economy not performance not sure what it would hit in second. I'm happy getting between 9.5 and 10.5 litres per hundred out of it. Still travel at 110/120 up and down the M5 freeway every day

My 5speed auto drops into 5th as soon as 60kms. I normally let it reach 4th automatically then lock it there through the suburds. I drive it for economy not performance not sure what it would hit in second. I'm happy getting between 9.5 and 10.5 litres per hundred out of it. Still travel at 110/120 up and down the M5 freeway every day

Totally agree. My Audi gets into 6th gear at 60kph doing 1000 rpm exactly. Economy is averaging 11.5 from 4.2L engine in the city because of this.

I have a 5 speed in KJ, the gear ratios seem way too short to me IMO. I'll be driving up Greenhill road past Fasta Pasta and the gearbox will slot me into fourth to tackle that incline, making the tiptronic necessary. However I do like how the first gear is so short, hated driving in a few mates TJ S1's with the 4 speed, would belt in first under little load!
I do find the gearbox shifting into 5th at 60 kmph annoying, however it's probably because i'm used to driving a manual XR6 for so long, those thing rev a lot lower and cruise in 4th everywhere until you need 5th for 80-90 km h plus.

Am I also write in saying that the 4speed is a lot more reliable, I hear about a lot of 5 speeds going early on without a trans cooler.

5 speed will give you more acceleration/sporty feel, 4 speed will give you better economy (well that's what i experienced in my old TJII).

With a 3.8 in my wagon + 4 speed, I already lose traction too easily, shorter ratios would be a nightmare for me under normal driving conditions.

Oh and I've definitely seen a 4 spd wind out to 160 in 2nd, could probably push 170 redlining it.

Millenium7, are you holding it in gear? In that case you might hit 170 bouncing off the rev limiter... normal auto 2->3 upshift would be around 145 which was what I was considering - sorry for not making that clear.

There's a couple of videos on youtube of Magnas doing 170 in second, also Booya doing 280 KPH in his, while saying "don't try this at home". Funny fella!

Thanks to everyone for your input, I have a TF advance and it changes gears faster than my KH Verada, the KH seems to hang on to long before changing up which can be a pain plus it goes back gears to easy, totally opposite to old KR Verada it would go into 3rd or 4th way too soon and it didn't want to change down unless you gave it a bit, would stay in 3rd going around a roundabout wheres as the KH goes back to second or even first coming off a roundabout. My KH has done 268,000k's with the original auto, so is it true the 5 speed auto aren't as reliable?

All the 5 speeds, Ralliart included, have 4->5 upshift shift maps that are identical up to a TPS reading of 75% (above which is considered WOT).

If you use the throttle really lightly, you can get them to shift into 5th at about 47-48kmh on a flat road. Those who are saying that the shift speeds are higher are naturally using slightly more throttle and/or the TPS sensor is responding or adjusted slightly differently. According to the shift maps in the ECU, 47kmh applies up to about 28% TPS, 55kmh would be about 31% TPS; 60kmh about 33% TPS and 70kmh about 36% TPS.

Having fiddled with the shift maps in my own car and someone else's car (both 5 speed), I can say that sometimes very small adjustments can make quite noticeable differences in apparent shift behaviour. Sometimes changes that work well in one set of conditions (e.g. Canberra) don't work so well in another set of conditions (e.g. Sydney).

The differences in shift quality between the 4 and 5 speed boxes may be down to construction differences between them, however as exactly the same computer code is used for both transmissions it seems to me that something in the parametric data differences might also be contributing.

TH 4 speed (Bought at 40,000km)- bullet proof got down to 7.8L / 100 on the road with 3.5L Wagon still shifted smooth after 360,000Km

TJ 5 speed Sports (Bought at 130,000km)- Dastardly bad auto fluid - probably never changed, after change/flush, much, much smoother than the 4 speed but the 5 speed does tend to hang onto low gears too long at light throttle but nail the throttle and the 4 speed is dust....

Having driven both I have to say I like the four speed. It gives a good accounting of itself when you have the floor the pedal and is silky smooth (so is the 5). Drive an old VR/S Commodore to feel what a real agricultural auto is like!

It took me a while to get use to using the triptronic manually but now I use it when I feel I need to hold a gear such as entering a freeway(well toll road few highways are free these days) or in traffic and it's great compared to the old 4spd in the TH.