Hi all,
P
Firstly I've noticed that after gearbox goes to forth gear is seem to drop into overdrive after being at a steady speed ( revs drop even further for cruising)
Am I just I imagining it or is it to do with the torque converter lockup.

Is there a way of turning off. I will be towing and would prefer not to be sitting in an overdrive gear. May prolong the life of the box. If it's the torque converter is there a way to keep it locked electronically?


Cheers
Dayne

If you are talking about the Magna 4 speed, this gearbox isn't overdriven-ie- it has 4 forward gears with converter lockup. If you are towing just leave it in D, the trans will select whether to lock up the converter based on load, if you are really worried then keep it in 3rd provided its not revving its ring off.

Yeah magna 4 speed. It's in a 3.5 verada. I would prefer to not just leave it in D, I've mostly towed with manual granny's and best not to have it in the highest gear as it's for cruising and not as strong, best to tow in the gear that is 1:1. having the ability to keep it locked will give me engine braking too. from reviews I've read on other forums there was a bit of an increase in fuel economy due to converter being locked at say 90 rather than locking and unlocking and less heat from the tranny. A few people said it drops their revs about 1-300 rpm at cruising speed when towing. I guess it's all personal preference.

I've seen kits to lock up the torque converters and they vary in price from $20 dodgee eBay to $300+

Yeah magna 4 speed. It's in a 3.5 verada. I would prefer to not just leave it in D, I've mostly towed with manual granny's and best not to have it in the highest gear as it's for cruising and not as strong, best to tow in the gear that is 1:1. having the ability to keep it locked will give me engine braking too. from reviews I've read on other forums there was a bit of an increase in fuel economy due to converter being locked at say 90 rather than locking and unlocking and less heat from the tranny. A few people said it drops their revs about 1-300 rpm at cruising speed when towing. I guess it's all personal preference. I've seen kits to lock up the torque converters and they vary in price from $20 dodgee eBay to $300+

I don't know if messing with the transmission is a good idea. I think you can reprogram it to some degree, but my knowledge is limited.

If what you're looking to do is limit its shifts to "1st - 2nd - 3rd" I'd look at using the vanilla (non-tiptronic) shifter/selector. That way you could select "3rd" and it'll stay in "3rd".

Also, get an oil cooler if you're towing. I'm a nervous nelly so I'm going to say get the BIGGEST oil cooler you can get... but I'm not sure that's good advice and you're better off asking a professional.

I don't know if messing with the transmission is a good idea. I think you can reprogram it to some degree, but my knowledge is limited.

If what you're looking to do is limit its shifts to "1st - 2nd - 3rd" I'd look at using the vanilla (non-tiptronic) shifter/selector. That way you could select "3rd" and it'll stay in "3rd".

Also, get an oil cooler if you're towing. I'm a nervous nelly so I'm going to say get the BIGGEST oil cooler you can get... but I'm not sure that's good advice and you're better off asking a professional.

Oil cooler is sitting in my garage waiting for me to get a couple of hoses made up. It's a factory pajero oil cooler so it should help the radiator in its cooling duties.

I will be using the selector to keep in an appropriate gear for the terrain. Just looking at keeping it locked in gear, the torque converter acts like a clutch but with oil pressure when just coasting along it unlocks and it's kinda like your in neutral. Which is not great when going down hill pulling a caravan that weighs nearly as much as your car. There is a lot of hilly terrain plus a massive mountain to go down before I hit nice coast. So best to be prepared and travel safe.

Does anyone know if the ecu can be flashed and a switch hooked up to lock up the converter? I couldn't really find any good information about how the torque converter lock up kits work.


Cheers
Dayne

I think the fourspeed locks up in both 3rd and 4th gears, but only after a few minutes at steady speed, and under low load.

I'd be wary of forcing the transmission into lock-up outside of the parameters built into the transmission control unit, as you may cause excessive mechanical loads on the clutches and planetary gear set. The torque converter acts like a big shock absorber when it is unlocked.

How about:
Fitting an oil cooler.
Fitting a transmission fluid temperature gauge.
When loaded, accelerate gently and reduce cruising speed.
Observe the rated unbraked/braked loads for the car.
(Honestly, a caravan that weighs as much as the car? That's your problem right there, you had better have good brakes on that caravan!)

Going down hill with a load and you want to use the gearbox to provide some engine braking? Just shift manually to 3rd or depending on speed, to 2nd.

I think the fourspeed locks up in both 3rd and 4th gears, but only after a few minutes at steady speed, and under low load.

I'd be wary of forcing the transmission into lock-up outside of the parameters built into the transmission control unit, as you may cause excessive mechanical loads on the clutches and planetary gear set. The torque converter acts like a big shock absorber when it is unlocked.

How about:
Fitting an oil cooler.
Fitting a transmission fluid temperature gauge.
When loaded, accelerate gently and reduce cruising speed.
Observe the rated unbraked/braked loads for the car. A 2T caravan needs something more robust than a Magna!

Going down hill with a load and you want to use the gearbox to provide some engine braking? Just shift manually to 3rd or depending on speed, to 2nd.

I was wondering when you would chime in madmax :)
Oil cooler is just waiting to be installed, trans temp gauge is a good idea. Didn't even think about that one. Good thinking
Edit : you wouldn't happen to know the normal temp range of the ATF?

The full loaded weight of the caravan should be no more than 1300kg and is electric braked. I wouldn't have the converter locked up all the time, just in certain situations. Situations that mitsubishi didn't feel the need to factor in when they were designing a car for the masses. Nor did they need to.

I don't see why all the caution about locking the converter? It's what it does, it's what it's in there for. Ideally I would be using a manual but I like this car as auto. Any of the more tech savvy users know how to lock it on command? Or can point me in the right direction as far as pin out on the ecu to supply power or earth to lock?


Cheers
Dayno

From my observations the torque converter only gets locked once the engine/trans is fully warmed up. Once in 4th gear it will always be locked unless you force it to stay in 4th using the tippy and push the accelerator to the floor. It appears to unlock itself when coasting/down hill to save on fuel by not slowing the car. Not sure about locking in other gears or when using tippy mode.

If the throttle position sensor is not functioning correctley or is out of adjustment then the gearbox can change up to a higher gear too soon. I would check this out before looking to modify the ECU programing.

I was wondering when you would chime in madmax :)
Oil cooler is just waiting to be installed, trans temp gauge is a good idea. Didn't even think about that one. Good thinking
Edit : you wouldn't happen to know the normal temp range of the ATF?


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2312501

Thanks mad max. Just as I thought.

Jimbo I don't know if the torque converter stays locked in 4th. Well mine doesn't seem to anyway. Will do some more testing over the coming days. When I add the cooler and change the ATF I see if it makes any difference. One my last magna I was going down bulli pass in traffic, very steep and in 1st gear, converter would lock and unlock intermittently. Don't know if this is normal for magnas but this is the sort of thing I'd like to avoid when towing. I would rather save my brakes for when they are needed........

In mad Max's link one of the posters said that he changes into 4th when trans fluid temp is getting high to lock the converter and his ATF temp fluid drops. Seems to be the consensus when converter is locking and unlocking it causes the fluid to heat.

Thanks for the input gents.

Just a correction. All Magna/Verada has OD gear. It is the 4th in the 4spd and 5th in the 5spd autos. Prior to E series, you were able to lock the 4th gear out with a button on the gear knob. E series and onwards, there is no longer a button to do that. The TCU is smart enough to determine which gear it should be in. It will automatically down change to a lower gear if required. OD means the ratio of the gear to engine is lower. Gears 1 to 3 on a 4spd and 1 to 4 on a 5spd are reduction gears.


Best to hook up that transmission cooler inline with the exiting in-radiator cooler. I have done that and have towed quite heavy trailers without issues. Then again, I always use the tippy and select the gear I want. You can manually do this as well in your 4spd. Just start with L, then go to 2 and then to 3. If you leave it in D, it will go to 4th when it can.

Just a correction. All Magna/Verada has OD gear. It is the 4th in the 4spd and 5th in the 5spd autos. Prior to E series, you were able to lock the 4th gear out with a button on the gear knob. E series and onwards, there is no longer a button to do that. The TCU is smart enough to determine which gear it should be in. It will automatically down change to a lower gear if required. OD means the ratio of the gear to engine is lower. Gears 1 to 3 on a 4spd and 1 to 4 on a 5spd are reduction gears.


Best to hook up that transmission cooler inline with the exiting in-radiator cooler. I have done that and have towed quite heavy trailers without issues. Then again, I always use the tippy and select the gear I want. You can manually do this as well in your 4spd. Just start with L, then go to 2 and then to 3. If you leave it in D, it will go to 4th when it can.

I was gonna hook it up inline with standard radiator cooler, I was going to run the second cooler post radiator but am open to suggestions as to pre or post.

I'm assuming like most cars the second last gear is 1-1 ratio? So I'm assuming 3rd in my 4 speed would be 1-1.

I'm assuming like most cars the second last gear is 1-1 ratio? So I'm assuming 3rd in my 4 speed would be 1-1.

1-1 = 0, you mean a 1:1 ratio?

What is the interest in the 1:1 ratio, and how does it relate to your desire to tow a heavy caravan with the torque converter locked up?

Stronger gear.... Blatantly obvious you haven't done a lot of towing mad max.......

What's your interest in correcting me when obviously you knew what I was talking about? Or are you just trying to get to your 9000 posts quicker. :)
Was mainly aimed at Vlad as he has done some towing with his mitsubishi

All relates to questions surrounding the auto box that I will be using. If that's ok. If not I can make a new thread.

Yes, the 3rd gear would be stronger than the 4th gear, the 2nd stronger than the 3rd and 1st stronger than 2nd. Really don't want sudden jolts when towing and in OD with torque converter locked. Heck, I destroyed the 4th gear on my dad's EA Falcon (not even towing) due to a sudden jolt. The auto tranny guy asked if the car had been in an accident as that is typically what would cause it.


Question for those with non-tippy autos, if you leave it in 3, does it start from L or 3? If L then just leave it in 3. This will lock it out of 4th.

Stronger gear.... Blatantly obvious you haven't done a lot of towing mad max.......


Yep, if you are talking about a rear wheel drive manual gearbox.
On an automatic, the engine torque goes through an epicyclic gear set. No one gear is mechanically "stronger" than the others.
Also, the torque converter, when not locked up, acts as a shock damper and protects the planetary gear set from shock loads from the engine. Hence I would NEVER deliberately lock up a torque converter in a front wheel drive by overriding the design parameters coded into the gearbox control unit by the factory for torque converter lockup conditions. (Think about it)

(If I'm wrong, Mal will chime in and call me a $%^%$#&& fool, as usual. lol)

Really don't want sudden jolts when towing and in OD with torque converter locked. Heck, I destroyed the 4th gear on my dad's EA Falcon (not even towing) due to a sudden jolt. The auto tranny guy asked if the car had been in an accident as that is typically what would cause it.

Question for those with non-tippy autos, if you leave it in 3, does it start from L or 3? If L then just leave it in 3. This will lock it out of 4th.

Thanks confirming what I was thinking, that locking up the torque converter puts extra load on the gearbox. Logical then that the Mitsu engineers have programmed the gearbox to only go into lockup at steady speed for 5 minutes or so and at low throttle opening.

In the "3" position the 4 speed box will go 1->2->3 as per usual, but not go into 4th.

EDIT: The 4 speed also has a freewheel function (= sprag clutch ?) in the torque converter, when going downhill with throttle off and you esentially have no engine braking. Don't know what would happen under those conditions if the torque converter is locked . . .

TL;DR:

My advice is not to muck about with the lockup function. But it is your car, do what you like.

Thanks confirming what I was thinking, that locking up the torque converter puts extra load on the gearbox. Logical then that the Mitsu engineers have programmed the gearbox to only go into lockup at steady speed for 5 minutes or so and at low throttle opening.

In the "3" position the 4 speed box will go 1->2->3 as per usual, but not go into 4th.

EDIT: The 4 speed also has a freewheel function (= sprag clutch ?) in the torque converter, when going downhill with throttle off and you esentially have no engine braking. Don't know what would happen under those conditions if the torque converter is locked . . .

TL;DR:

My advice is not to muck about with the lockup function. But it is your car, do what you like.

The freewheeling down hill is ideally what I want to avoid. But if it's gonna do major damage to the box I might just see how it goes without the on demand lockup function. First big test will be a trip down the Coast Aussie day long weekend.

I assumed that the fwd gearboxes were setup the same as rwd just in a more compact unit. I guess I'll just make sure that the revs are high enough for it to lock itself into gear.

I'll just stick with rear raised springs, LT tyres on the rear and oil cooler. See how that goes....


Thanks for all the input gents.

How heavy is the caravan and specifically, what is its tow-ball weight? If it is heavier than 150kg you will need a load balancing hitch. You won't need LT tyres, just make sure the tyres are pumped up to at least 35, preferably 38. Having LT tyres at the back will mean different overall diameters to the front ones and is not a good thing on AWDs' centre diff.

Stronger gear.... Blatantly obvious you haven't done a lot of towing mad max.......

What's your interest in correcting me when obviously you knew what I was talking about? Or are you just trying to get to your 9000 posts quicker. :)
Was mainly aimed at Vlad as he has done some towing with his mitsubishi

All relates to questions surrounding the auto box that I will be using. If that's ok. If not I can make a new thread.

Max just feels the need to post up in the forums despite most of the stuff he posts is wrong (and that is being polite)

To begin with, the 4sp Auto, the 4th is an overdrive, Converter will lock up under low to moderate load when engine warm (this is the second rev drop you get) and this will not do anything about heating the trans

The link Max gave is a totally different car, different drive system and totally not relevant.

I have 1 customer who towed a 4x4 camper trailer in his TF wagon loaded up with a family of 5 around Australia in the middle of summer. We fitted a decent cooler with an external thermostat on it and when he got back after 28000km of driving including driving through the outback, trans fluid was still like new. I also have to add when he left Vic the car already had over 220k on the odo so was far from being a new car

Personally, if your van is over 1400kg you would need another car anyway, if not, fit a decent cooler with thermostat, before or after the radiator makes sfa difference, use genuine fluid and you should be fine

Also Max, you are trying to say that a Magna torque converter free wheels down hills, next you will be trying to tell us the pistons were left over from the Concorde

How heavy is the caravan and specifically, what is its tow-ball weight? If it is heavier than 150kg you will need a load balancing hitch. You won't need LT tyres, just make sure the tyres are pumped up to at least 35, preferably 38. Having LT tyres at the back will mean different overall diameters to the front ones and is not a good thing on AWDs' centre diff.

I wish I had an awd, lol just a fwd. ball weight was 82kgs (personally weighed) as per rego papers tare was 890 but I don't believe it's that low. Ill weight before leaving on the maiden voyage. I have lpg and will be towing with a boot load of crap so I thought best to go the LT route just for peace of mind. I need new tyres anyway.


Madmagna thanks for the info, I was gonna fit a cooler but don't know how I would fit a thermostat inline, do you have one I could buy with casing for the thermostat or is there one that's specific for oil cooler lines as they are smaller than a normal radiator thermostat.

Cheers

Dayne

Sorry Dayne, was thinking of another member. The issue with the Verada is that it is running 215/60R16 tyres on 16x6 wheels so will sag quite a bit, especially with the caravan. Why not upgrade the wheels/tyres to better ones since you will be towing a caravan.

Sorry Dayne, was thinking of another member. The issue with the Verada is that it is running 215/60R16 tyres on 16x6 wheels so will sag quite a bit, especially with the caravan. Why not upgrade the wheels/tyres to better ones since you will be towing a caravan.

They do sag a bit. I have no objections to rims and tyres except for the cost of new. What size do you think vlad? 16x7 with same width tyre?

Won't LT tyres have stronger sidewalls and not sag as much?

Edit what size you running vlad?

They do sag a bit. I have no objections to rims and tyres except for the cost of new. What size do you think vlad? 16x7 with same width tyre?
That will be good enough. Bob Jane is having a massive car park sale this Saturday. 16x7 are from $129 from their latest catalogue and may be cheaper on Saturday.

Won't LT tyres have stronger sidewalls and not sag as much?

Edit what size you running vlad?


LTs do have stronger side wall but look hideous. I run 18x8 with 235/45R18 tyres. Tyres lasts a lot longer (even though they are sports tyres) compared to OEM Bridgestone ER300 215/60R16 on 16x6. Had too much shoulder wear considering the GTVi AWD weighs in at 1700kg at the kerb.

Surely there are normal car tyres available with a higher load rating. The rear end of the Magna is much lighter than the front which runs the same tyres. Loaded up I reckon front and rear might be even. From memory the magna runs tyres with a load index of 94, these are good for 670kg each.

Surely there are normal car tyres available with a higher load rating. The rear end of the Magna is much lighter than the front which runs the same tyres. Loaded up I reckon front and rear might be even. From memory the magna runs tyres with a load index of 94, these are good for 670kg each.

They are 95 load rated. Only the later sports and VRX (non AWD) have 94. It is not the thres but the wheels, being 6" wide is too narrow and causes the sidewalls to flex inwards too much and sag. I don't have sagging issues with 235/45r18 or 225/45r18, both on 18x8 wheels.

Wife's zg outlander xls with 225/55r18 on 18x7 wheels is slightly better but still sags a little and more when loaded up.

(If I'm wrong, Mal will chime in and call me a $%^%$#&& fool, as usual. lol)

Thanks Mal, reliable as ever. lol
The main concern I have in this thread is the OP's desire to lock up the torque converter when he wants, like using it to get engine braking when going down hill. Not a good idea, in my opinion.



The link Max gave is a totally different car, different drive system and totally not relevant.
Also Max, you are trying to say that a Magna torque converter free wheels down hills, next you will be trying to tell us the pistons were left over from the Concorde

The OP inquired about ATF fluid temperatures in the Magna. The link contained relevant numbers. If not relevant in your opinion, what temps should the ATF in a Magna run at?
By the way, there are no pistons in the good old Concorde engine, so I assume this is your attempt at humour. Hope someone laughed at the joke!