Hi everyone. I had my 1990 TP 2.6 EFI Auto. Magna's transmission replaced by (someone I regrettably found out was a junk-yard dog) and there-after the fuel economy plummeted from 14 ks per litre to just under 8 ks per litre. Plus the transmission oil didn't even register on the dip stick when it was checked a few days later.

When fronted about the matter he went all hang-dog and totally mystified etc. When asked about the lack of transmission oil he just said it must have all leaked out. Uh huh. Four and half litres? Yeah, right. So if you're in the Raymond Terrace area, I'd be careful about getting any work done at a wrecking yard.

I'm absolutely gutted because being on the pension is tough enough without having been scammed and treated like this by this character. (However, I won't bore you with the all the other grief he put me through).

So I want to ask the forum what may have been done to see the economy drop so badly.

I'm here in Mareeba, Q. A reward is on offer. I'll pay $50 (via PayPal) if your suggestion cures the problem. As you can tell I'm quite desperate for a solution.

I went to a guy in Toowoomba when I was down there, who was supposed to be good but sadly found out he'd used a meter on the car that wasn't suitable for the TP. "Oh well, we did the best we could." Holy Stupidity Batman! So there went another $90 for nothing. Unbelievable.

Anyway, guys, it's over to you.

City driving - drive with overdrive off below 70 km and power
Highway O-D on above 70 KM and economy

reset the ECU computer --pull out the efi fuse for 20 sec.. or undo the battery terminals for say a miniute

tranny .
4 and a half ltrs-- you just gave the tranny a quick service

Check for CV seals leaking the cv circlips may be weak ..or the front gearbox seal

Next
replace the fuel filter and or use injector cleaner into the tank

you can do the cars diagnostics with an LED test light (will flash code numbers )

EFI Diagnostic link http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1600733#poststop

engine diagnostic plug -- is the round plug near the disy ... checks EFI system

the tranny diagnostics ..tucked up above the glove box frame

even more

you can go further and fit the blue sec gen injectors
rocker roller conversion
check the fuel pressure regulator is working (its vacuume operated )

topic on TP economy from archives 5 pages http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1605950#poststop

Hi SunriseBoy, was the running ok before you had the transmission fitted?

I often ((it's seldom it doesn't hapopen) find that if I have my car worked on by a mechanic there is something that has not been tightened, plugged in, done right. not done or done wrong. (at least if I do it myself I know who to blame! I swore off getting my hands dirty with oils a couple of decades ago, Now, in my dotage, I've reverted to my youthful interest in engines with a greater appreciation for cleanliness and systematic methodology.) There is an exception : across the bridge at Margaret River is an honest genius! Most I know personally, like me, backyard diy's try. Those who want money for trying are serving two masters.)) Often a pluglead is loose. Basically : don't just trust any mechanic, or parts supplier for that matter, until they have earned that trust and even then, don't. If you have a manual go through the removal/installation steps in turn and check that all steps have been followed, You may find something not done properly. Something not plugged in right or tightened or left off or altered. Are all cables positioned correctly. Are all plugs seated.

Sorry about being late to the party but I was travelling yesterday. Fuel consumption is usually quoted as litres per 100km. For country and highway driving, I consider 10 litres per 100km (or 10 kms per litre) as the benchmark to aim for with an auto TP and that is what I currently get. In the city, 12 litres per 100km is fairly normal and it may be as bad as 14 litres per 100 km in heavy traffic.

Your figure of 14 kms per litre equals 7.15 litres per 100km and I've never heard of a TP achieving that. The best I've ever measured with mine is 8.9 litres per 100km and I suspect on that occasion the fuel bowser cut off prematurely before the tank was full. 8 kms per litre is 12.5 litres per 100 kms which is definitely not good if that was country driving.

What rpm does your tacho show in top gear overdrive at a steady 100 kph on a level road? It should be around 2,200 to 2,300 rpm (assuming standard tyres). If it is 2,400 rpm or more, the lockup clutch on the transmission may not be working. If it is working, when you go up a slight incline and maintain 100 kph without dropping out of overdrive, you should see the revs rise to 2,400 - 2,600 and settle down again to 2,200 to 2,300 once back on the flat.

If the lockup clutch is the problem, maybe the transmission that was fitted already had that fault. Alternatively it might be just a simple wiring fault such as the plug from the transmission's oil temperature sensor not being plugged in. Obviously the higher rpm caused by a faulty lockup clutch affects fuel consumption.

I'm inclined to think your problem is elsewhere though and the oxygen sensor is the usual culprit. It may have been left unplugged after the transmission swap. It screws into the exhuast manifold and has a single wire and plug. If it is plugged in, check the ecu diagnostic codes with a multimeter or led tester to see whether it is giving an error code. Just ask again here if you don't know how to do that.

Just read through all the ideas and totally agree with what's been said. For my own curiosity when the battery is disconnected does the ecu "forget" it's fuel trimming and then have to relearn it from the O2 sensor,or is it just a matter of it is what it is and just gets trimmed from the O2 sensor every time you drive? I was just thinking that maybe it lost its memory of trimming fuel to suit the engine and the O2 may be buggered and not sending any outputs to let the ECU relearn? Apart from that,like was mentioned by Coldy ,check cruising rpm ,who knows it could be slipping or maybe not engaging in OD? Dragging brakes? On average I seem to get 8.8/100km or thereabouts on the highway,but stop start traffic kills that back to about 12/100. Keep us informed on what you find! Good luck with it. Cheers

Tpwagon, I think all the fuel injection parameters are stored in permanent memory. However the ecu uses "real time" information from the oxygen sensor to trim the mixture. If it receives no response from the oxygen sensor, it uses a predetermined program that errs on the side of rich mixture. It also sets an error code indicating that the sensor is faulty. If the battery is disconnected, all error codes are cleared from the ecu's memory. However it doesn't need to re-learn its functions.

IMPORTANT: The oxygen sensor error code is the only code that is not saved when the ignition is switched off. Hence you can only check for an oxygen sensor error code with the engine running and warmed up. (well, you can check for it without the engine running but you won't find it, so you will think the sensor is ok when it may not be).

...wonder where the car is now
bit worried about the auto internals after it was driven
a few days later without that much oil

Gotta wonder if it was slipping a lot with low oil and burnt the clutches or something? It's a shame,but you really have to do as much as you can yourself....it's getting hard to find good help.

Roger that. Nearly 14 ks per litre. After, just under 8 ks per litre.

And a strange thing is the engine won't rev to the average of 2600 whilst in third and Overdrive. It only averages 2000 now.

OK. This is brilliant. I've got such a lot of info here and will start to do some point by point work in the next few days.

An adenda to the fuel figures. I've done an accurate calculation using a website and the figure is 12.33lts per 100ks.

But guys, thanks so much for all of this. I think I'm now going to be able to resurrect the old girl's fuel numbers.

This wasn't a gradual loss of economy. It was literally overnight. Bang. Down from 7lts/100ks to over 12. And it's important to get something clear here. There are zero oil leaks from this engine.

I know that's hard to believe but that is the case. I had an older chap in Toowoomba who is a brilliant Magna man, say he'd never seen and engine on a Magna like this one. And just for the record, the last time it was steam cleaned was nearly four years ago. It's just such a great car.

Yep, you're right about that. The dumb-arses in Toowoomba who were supposed to be good, were just as thick as two short planks. As I said, $90 and no change. Wow.

Colamus, you are a thinker, I can tell. I'll get O2 sensor looked at hot foot.

As to the lock up clutch, I think you are on to something there. Previously it revved at 2600 at a 100 ks. Now it's 2000.

It changes up and down just fine. So I guess my hysterics about the rev change were completely unwarranted. (As most hysterics are!) So as you appear to have discerned the lockup clutch is working on this one and it may not have been on the old one.

There was a detail I omitted to offer and was only noticed the other day...the tip of the exhaust pipe was running absolutely black, then I just noticed it is now clean as a whistle.

But thanks again for the guidance; I now have a number of things I can work on. And I can't tell you how much of a burden has been lifted with the hope of actually fixing the issue.

Will someone instruct me how to get the new messages sent straight to my email address please.
The Grey Nomad is not such a hot cyber-space kinda guy!

Well,I guess I'm a slightly grey nomad! I'm about to do the drive again from Sydney up to the Gold Coast.. I'll see what economy I'm getting now the engine is well and truly run in, but it sounds like you were getting very good figures before your problem....extremely good for an early Magna! The old girls do a fine job,I regularly drive between Bris and Gold Coast now I live up there,as well as quite a few Sydney trips and she's always does a fantastic job,pretty comfortable as well !

Will someone instruct me how to get the new messages sent straight to my email address please.


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Thanks for the advice MB. Nearly all of those points are covered as a matter of course. But thanks again for the heads-up.

Thanks for the settings directions also.

And thanks for that link for the metering stuff. I've put that into my favourites and will get my mate in Toowoomba to have a Captain Cook at it.

My economy in a TP wagon,1 person and about 200kg in the back with aircon running was 8.8/100km...almost exactly what Coldamus quoted. Mine was taken over 400km highway and 140km of no traffic suburban driving and some highway. It would be a good day to get low 8's ...but probably do able...certainly in a sedan...but I wouldn't expect 7's out of a Magna..My wagon has a fresh roller cam engine and a new trans with lock up working. Just thought it may be useful as a yardstick to see what you get. Cheers

Thanks for that TPW. As mentioned I was getting better than 7 lts / 100ks previously. Now it's 12 plus. I'll get onto the O2 sensor and the other things Colamnus suggested. Plus the other things mentioned by the rest of the crew. Thanks again everyone.

Thanks for that TS. I'll write down all the things here and get on to them. I've got a 1600k perambulation coming up so am hoping to run this to ground soon.

Hi Coldamus. So, I take it I have to get someone to put a multi-meter on the car and check the O2 readout.

Having done that; how is the problem rectified if the reading is bad. Is it only the sensor that has to be replaced? On replacing does any other adjustments have to be made?

you just undo the old sensor and fit a new one ..its a better cheaper option

they do fail

you may have to break the top off the old one to get it off
if you dont have the right deep socket

the diagnostics link ( post 2) can help also

Hi Coldamus. So, I take it I have to get someone to put a multi-meter on the car and check the O2 readout.

Having done that; how is the problem rectified if the reading is bad. Is it only the sensor that has to be replaced? On replacing does any other adjustments have to be made?

Sorry, I hadn't checked back here as I've been travelling.

You can't test the sensor directly. Use an analogue multi-meter or 12v l.e.d. test probe to read the ecu diagnostic codes. The test must be done with the engine running and warmed up. However, as magna buff said, if you have to pay someone to do that, you may as well just replace the o2 sensor yourself.. They cost anywhere from about $60 dollars upwards. e.g. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-OXYGEN-SENSOR-MAGNA-EXPRESS-LANCER-STARWAGON-/310160994342?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4837093026

I always remove the manifold heat shield so that I can get at it with a ring spanner (28mm I think). Then you don't need a long socket. Undo the connector and feed the spanner over the wire. The sensor will be very tight. Don't use an open-end spanner or you will just round off all its corners. No tuning or adjustment is necessary although personally I check the ecu diagnostic codes afterwards to confirm it is working.

Hi Guys, I've got a bit of riveting trivia after all the arjee-barjee of my previous entreaties. I had to drive from Mareeba down to Rubyvale (in Q.) Filled up in Townsville and headed across to Charters Towers for the night. It was so blasted hot I had to stop every couple of hours to dry out. It took me 11 hours all up to go from Mareeba to CT. It was a hell of a day, let me tell ya.

Any way on my way out of CT, I stopped at old Norton's to fuel the car; just on the left hand side there over the railway line. (And while I'm on the topic of fuel how come this little bloke with four bowsers and couple of papers and the milk and stuff can sell fuel a cent cheaper that Woolworth's discounted price. He was a cent cheaper. Go figure).

So, I top up the car. Spilt a bit because I knew it would be around 18-19 litres sort of thing. No way Jose! Right on 11 litres for 151 ks. Do the math!

I'm back in town with the economy. What a relief.

Of course you're all going to ask, 'Well...what did you do to it'? That's the thing, I didn't do anything. Absolutely nothing. So I'm still as mystified now as I was a week ago. But the numbers tell the story so it's not just some silly old bugger making up a story.

And Calamus, I'm taking your sage advice and am getting another O2 sensor just for maintenance purposes.

All the best boys. And thanks for all your kind advice. This is the 'old' Australia I grew up in.

Best regards to all of you.

SRB.

Of course you're all going to ask, 'Well...what did you do to it'? That's the thing, I didn't do anything. Absolutely nothing. So I'm still as mystified now as I was a week ago. But the numbers tell the story so it's not just some silly old bugger making up a story.


Probably the weather conditions and the sort of trips you do account for the differences.
My third gen will do 7.7L/100 km on a long country drive in summer, while going down to the shops only numerous times, in winter, bumps it up to about 16.

EDIT: wife's Lancer got 7.4L/100 km (38 mpg) in city driving today, air con on - so if fuel consumption is important to you, keep the Lancer in mind when you trade up.

Well the 'weather' might account for something in your experience but this has been going on since July last. And I've clocked up some seven thousand ks since then under very similar conditions; so...the weather...I don't think so.
But I remember a story about a chap in Melbourne who had a 1983 Statseman DeVille. He was getting, wait for this over 80 miles to the gallon. Re-read that. He wrote to GMH and told them his story. It went on for nearly five years. They didn't say it straight up, but in essence they said he was bulltishing!

He had five engineers reports who all confirmed his claims. The NRMA gave him one also. GM finally gave in and said let's have a look at it. So they did. After three months of testing and investigating they gave the car back to him. He asked for the report that was originally promised when he gave the car to them. Their reply was "No comment".

So with cars and women...ya just never know what's gonna happen next!

Yup about 8 miles to the gallon in an old Deville sounds about right if your in the city. They were a heavy and somewhat sluggish car back in the day.
You can get about 20 miles to the gallon on the highway if you kept your foot off. The old 91 litre tank ensured you could get somewhere in one. Efficiency has come along way....... Vee