I have a few newbie questions, I'm interested in improving the handling in my AWD and thinking about the suspension. I've never felt the need to investigate this before with my FWD. Grateful if someone could explain the basics for me.

I understand the stock setup is struts in the front. Are coilovers preferred over struts or are struts just as good with the right setup?
Are the front shocks usually replaced with the whole strut as one assembly, or are the shocks usually replaced separately?
Are the rears just a shock on their own?
I assume we can replace rears from the fronts seperately, i.e.: mixing up brands/types without any issue?
Is there any difference between FWD and AWD as far as shocks/struts go?

Are the Koni "yellows" a performance strut/shock combo? And is Koni considered the most reliable and quality brand? If not Koni what else is good quality?
What would be the recommended Koni product to improve handling over stock without introducing too much harshness?

Are "lows" referring to shorter springs than stock? Do lows provide better performance than stock? Do they introduce too much harshness? Or are they more for looks, giving a more aggressive stance?

I dk whether suspension or lower profile tyres/wheels is the way to go, as to which will give the biggest result.

Too many questions I know, but would appreciate anyone able to help me understand any of this, thanks.

Bump... Im really interested in this stuff! Just the basics atm. Im a little confused between the differences between a strut and coilover. For example when installing coilovers do they replace the stock strut or are they installed into it?

coilovers replace the strut and spring

Coilovers are really only for people who really want coilovers......

Best shock, spring combo I know of for these cars are boge shocks combined with dobinson springs

If you are changing over to lowered springs it is best to replace the shocks at the same time....shocks dont realy like going from standard height to lowered height

From memory, the rears are a spring and shock combined together, much like the front struts...

I understand the stock setup is struts in the front. Are coilovers preferred over struts or are struts just as good with the right setup?


Coil overs are generally for ricers and racers. Usually quite stiff but adjustable for road or track. Just depends on what you do with your ride. To my understanding a strut is a coil and shock contained as one unit. So really a coilover is the same setup Someone correct me if I'm wrong.... I grew up in Western Sydney. Education wasn't the highest priority. Lol




Are the front shocks usually replaced with the whole strut as one assembly, or are the shocks usually replaced separately?
Are the rears just a shock on their own?

I replace shocks, keep springs unless your unhappy with ride height and strut tops if there worn replace as needed. Generally as pairs for replacement of shocks.

Hope it helps.

Good info all,thank you, keep it coming, I'm like a sponge soaking up the details, lol!
I'm also wondering about my KH now. I think i've only ever replaced one strut a couple years ago, (front passenger side, as it was leaking), otherwise everything else is original at 235k's, lol. Maybe i should consider new shocks for it? it does seem a littke harsher than I remember going over the speed bumps!
Are the struts and rear shocks interchangeable between models? I'm thinking if i swap anything out on my KL can i re-install it into the KH? (KL components are fine), so that would be AWD to FWD as well?

As for my AWD handling, at this point my options seem to be:
1. Lower springs,
2. Lower profile wheels/tyres,
3. Coilovers that are tighter than my stock struts.

Whats going to be the most effective option taking into account performannce and cost?

As far as I'm aware fwd front and rear are interchangeable between models for sedans but wagons have a seperate coil and shock in the rear. Not 100% sure with awd but I would assume
Differences would be with ride height and spring rate between models like sports VRX and the like will be different to a base model. I'm not sure if the shocks are "valved" different from factory but aftermarket parts numbers are the same.

I get a lot of my info from part numbers, same part numbers to check interchangeability.

I'm waiting on eBay struts, (should arrive today) for the rear of my car as I'm putting hd springs in the rear to help with towing. I nearly always replace when I buy a new car. Easiest way to check your shocks is bounce each corner of your car, I give it say 4-5 good pushes down rhythmically pushing harder each time, if it settles quickly (like 2 oscillations) you're shocks are in reasonable condition. If she keeps bouncing like a $2 hooker I would replace. Boat like wallowing means they aren't doing what they are designed for.

If you have a spare car for parts just rip stuff out and try. Whole strut assemblies can be changed fairly quickly. last time I did all 4 took me like two hrs. With no special tools really needed. Set of spanners a and a socket set will be fine.

Cheers

I will not get into the coil over debate

In my opinion, and the opinion of most of my customer, Sachs (boge) and Dobinsons are the best combination. They are priced well, give great comfort for a car that has been lowered and at the same time are a real improvement over the standard which was made for comfort more than handling.

As for Koni, I have the last set here in existence, Koni no longer make them for Magna's. This set is on hold for another member so unfortunately you have just barely missed out on these by a couple of days.

If you want prices let me know, give me a call. There are a couple of options as far as height goes as well, you dont need to go real low

As for my AWD handling, at this point my options seem to be:
1. Lower springs,
2. Lower profile wheels/tyres,
3. Coilovers that are tighter than my stock struts.

Whats going to be the most effective option taking into account performannce and cost?
Depending on what your demands are, there is no absolute requirement to go lower - I fitted standard height Lovell's springs with Boge (as they were then known) shocks in my AWD and got a noticeable reduction in body roll and a somewhat firmer - but quite acceptable to me - ride (still on stock 16" tyres/wheels). The ride height came in at about the same as the unsagged side of the original suspension - 5mm lower at front, same at rear (eyebrow heights 405mm and 375mm respectively).

The turn-in was still compromised a bit by the 6" wide stock rims allowing the tyres to roll a bit during cornering; 7" wide rims would have improved that without compromising the ride.

The AWD uses the same shocks and springs as the FWD sedans.

Depending on what your demands are, there is no absolute requirement to go lower - I fitted standard height Lovell's springs with Boge (as they were then known) shocks in my AWD and got a noticeable reduction in body roll and a somewhat firmer - but quite acceptable to me - ride (still on stock 16" tyres/wheels). The ride height came in at about the same as the unsagged side of the original suspension - 5mm lower at front, same at rear (eyebrow heights 405mm and 375mm respectively).thats interesting thanks WytWun. I assume the springs are stiffer than stock.


The turn-in was still compromised a bit by the 6" wide stock rims allowing the tyres to roll a bit during cornering; 7" wide rims would have improved that without compromising the ride.
If Im going to replace the rims then I guess I may as well get a lower profile tyre on them as well, or are you saying that in your case the stock profile was fine?

Remember I'm a newbie on this stuff, so are these the brands mentioned in this thread:
Lovell (http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/index.php)
Sachs (http://www.zf.com/na/content/en/united_states/sachs_us/homepage_sachs_us/index.html)
Dobinsons (http://www.dobinsons.com.au)
Boge (http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/boge/homepage_boge/homepage_BOGE.jsp) (Looks to be the same company as "Sachs"?)
Koni (http://www.koni.com)

I've also noticed Monroe (http://www.monroe.com/en-US/) popping up in search results a lot but no one mentioned them here. They're not relevant for our cars?
Last thing, you guys dont mention models (apart from "Koni Yellows"), just the brand names. Does that mean that the car model dictates which product (spring/shock/strut) is relevant?

I'm also seeing that the strongest recommendation so far is Boge shocks/Dobinson springs combo. Any particular brand/model codes for those? I think a few members, both here and in other threads, have said Koni yellows are the best, but Mal has informed us they're no longer available.

On my TW at 115k I replaced my front shocks with Monroe GT which I think are close to stock, and immediately found a huge improvement. Handling had become vague at speed, it was bouncing after speed bumps, and bottoming out. The new struts fixed all this. You'll probably see a big improvement no matter what you fit.

On my TW at 115k I replaced my front shocks with Monroe GT which I think are close to stock, and immediately found a huge improvement. Handling had become vague at speed, it was bouncing after speed bumps, and bottoming out. The new struts fixed all this. You'll probably see a big improvement no matter what you fit.
Thanks cooperplace! All my struts and shocks on the AWD are in very good condition, I'm just looking to reduce body roll and improve handling without adding too much harshness. As for my KH, yeah anything is going to be better.

Pedders get mentioned alot because people use them...

They are not referenced by anyone here as a recommended product, not because they are crap, just there are better products out there for a very similar price

If you want to improve your ride when your current suspention is still in good nick, then really, the sensible choice is Boge/Sache shocks and dobinson springs, your choice to go lower or stay near standard height...

On my TW at 115k I replaced my front shocks with Monroe GT which I think are close to stock, and immediately found a huge improvement. Handling had become vague at speed, it was bouncing after speed bumps, and bottoming out. The new struts fixed all this. You'll probably see a big improvement no matter what you fit.

Did the ride become more compliant by any chance?
At 200,000km I find my car transmits small bumps too much, ie, if I go over a road reflector I really feel it.
In contrast larger bumps at higher speeds get soaked up really well.

If you want boge, now called sachs, i stock them.

Same goes for springs

Kh will most likely need front strut tops and bump stops at the age the car is

thats interesting thanks WytWun. I assume the springs are stiffer than stock.
Yes.


If Im going to replace the rims then I guess I may as well get a lower profile tyre on them as well, or are you saying that in your case the stock profile was fine?
Again, I think that depends on your demands of the car's handling vs ride quality. The stock 215/60R16 tyres would be fine on 16"x7" rims (I never tried 16"x7" rims, went to 17" instead...); the problem with running those tyres on the stock 16"x6" rims is the tyre roll effect in cornering. In 16", the only other practical tyre size is 225/55R16 which would be best on 16"x7" rims; they are somewhat smaller in overall diameter (by about 10mm IIRC) but are available in the right load and speed ratings and I believe have been used successfully by a number of AWD owners - were I to go back to 16" rims (and I might yet) I would look at tyres in both 225/55R16 and 215/60R16, but only on rims at least 7" wide.

Er, at this point and after a lot of reading, I believe what I would like to do is fit 17"x7" rims and the better springs and shocks - Sachs (boge) and Dobinsons.

The lower profile and wider rim should provide a good improvement in handling.
The springs and shocks should maintain good comfort.
I assume I need to go a little lower in ride height than stock for aesthetic reasons only, given the lower profile wheels and tyres.

So now I have a perfectly good set of standard rims and tyres on the car with plenty of tread... So I guess I will either have to wait until the tyres are due or try and sell them.

My only remaining question is whether the 17x7's wiil affect the speedo and by how much, and I also want to check with the RACV on the impact on my insurance.

There will be no impact on insurance as Magna's came with 17" wheels for the fwd, effectively the same body on your car.

If the correct tyres are fitted then the speedo will not change as the rolling diameter will be the same

There will be no impact on insurance as Magna's came with 17" wheels for the fwd, effectively the same body on your car.

If the correct tyres are fitted then the speedo will not change as the rolling diameter will be the same
Thanks Mal!

Ok, after a bit more research I believe worn shocks and struts may not necessarily result in bottoming out or bouncing unless they're practically unserviceable.

I think it is possible though that after 90,000 k's and 10 years that they could be worn enough to contribute to body roll and instability. So I've decided to replace the shocks now instead of waiting for the next tyre change.

Question about the front struts, are these sold seperate to the spring seats, bump stops and strut tops? Or are they sold as a complete kit? (I assume the springs themselves are sold seperately).

I believe when you buy struts, that is the only thing you're buying.
So you'd need to reuse all your parts, and ideally replace some (eg, bump stops, dust boots etc)

Ok! I've replaced the dampers all round in both my KH and KL.
That included the strut tops, Sachs struts, bump stops and sway bar bushes.
Original springs and wheels retained.

KH (FWD)
The original dampers were all original, except for one strut replaced a few years ago due to leakage. The other three had about 245,000 k's on them. I decided these were due because the gf complained of noise and handling issues and was asking for a new car.

Result:
Very good improvement in handling. These are firmer but do not detract from the comfort level at all. I'm not the regular driver of this car, but gf states it feels like a new car :)

KL (AWD)
The original dampers had 90,000 k's and seemed to be working normally.
My aim here was to reduce the normal AWD sway by fitting the Sachs, given they were probably worn this age/mileage anyway.

Result:
Great improvement in handling, with the boaty, sway almost totally eliminated.
Much firmer ride, with the dampers strongly and quickly responding to the road surface.
Ride has a harsher, more sporty feel.
Over small bumps in the road there is harshness, but no issues with control.
Larger bumps are soaked up without increased harshness.
Undulations are easily controlled with no hint of bottoming out, although a bit of an abrupt lift as the dampers recoil.
On a smooth flat road the ride feels very level and solid.

The most surprising outcome is noise and vibration level which has reduced considerably in the cabin.
I notice the noise being transmitted into the cabin from outside has lessened significantly while there is some increased squeaks and creaks from the interior when going over harsh bumps due to the firmer ride. Overall much quieter. The steering wheel vibration at idle, which was always very slight in this car, has reduced to almost zero.
I dont know why the noise and vibration would have reduced like this but a welcome bonus.

My next step will be lower profile wheels should I want to increase handling further, but won't look at that option until my tyres need changing.

Big thankyou once again to Mal and Brendan at MitsFix for doing a great job looking after my cars; with special thanks to Brendan for getting everything done same day, awesome job as I had a few things besides the suspension needing doing that day.

Did the KL end up with a firmer ride than KH? Even though the parts used are the same?

Did the KL end up with a firmer ride than KH? Even though the parts used are the same?
They're both firmer, but the KL seems to sink slightly more in the road dips, probably due to the extra weight.
Neither are uncomfortable or too harsh, just harsher than the original dampers.
No sway!

I'll have to drive the KH a bit more to feel what the difference is to the KL.

Took the KH for a drive on the weekend. I noticed the ride is similar to the KL.
I think there are a few differences; KL AWD is much heaviier, with firmer rebound and some understeer present. The steering in the KH has a rumble or rattle over corrugated surface while steering in the KL hasnt and is more responsive.
The KL feels a little more consistent in the stance in terms of control over poor surfaces.

As to the comfort level, i believe the new Sachs dampers are slightly less comfortable than stock but the handling is improved. Same outcome as for the KL really.

The rest of the suspension components may be more or less worn on each car too though.

I noticed that even though my shocks are clearly worn out (212,000km on originals) this only really shows at higher speeds over bumpier roads.
City driving, and to some extent even highway driving on smooth roads is completely fine

The rest of the suspension components may be more or less worn on each car too though.

I noticed that even though my shocks are clearly worn out (212,000km on originals) this only really shows at higher speeds over bumpier roads.
City driving, and to some extent even highway driving on smooth roads is completely fine
Well I have had no problems with the springs in either car and they're original.
I only noticed potential shock problems when driving over non-smooth surfaces, and that was only the KH which has far more mileage. The issue with the KL was noticeable sway.
So far very happy with the results. KH continues to feel renewed and the KL has no detectable sway now.
I don't think I need to bother with lower profile wheels now, although I spotted a red Magna on the fwy today that had been lowered and looked great.
Mal and the team checked everything else out and all was good.