I am doing my timing belt and before I pulled it all apart I aligned the marks on the cam sprockets with the matching marks in the covers. Then I looked at the harmonic balancer mark for setting the ignition timing and it was not even on the scale, it looked to be about -10°.

Then after doing the oil seals and water pump I put it all back together with the marks aligned on the cam sprockets and the crankshaft dot aligned with the mark on the engine case. Gave it a few turns to make sure it still matched up which it did. After putting the harmonic balancer back on I notice it's mark is now at 0° on the plastic covers scale.

Is this correct? I'm thinking the dealer who did it before I got the car may have got it one tooth out, otherwise I have it wrong.

What effect would having the cams retarded by one tooth have on power, economy and idle quality? When putting the cam sprockets on it appears you can rotate them a very small amount back and forth, I set them rotated clockwise as this is the way the belt would pull them and also the bolt when tightening. Also there is a small amount of play in the crank angle sensor position which I'm guessing doesn't matter.

Is this correct?

Yes. If the belt is on correctly with the cam sprockets and crank sprocket on their correct marks, the plastic cover will line the "0" mark with the "V" notch on the harmonic balancer.
Basically is says "Everything is lined up correctly on for TDC on number 1 cylinder, belt is on properly".

10 degrees out on the bottom pulley sounds a lot, I wonder how many teeth that represents at the cam pulleys?

Looking at the manual there is 24 teeth on the crankshaft and 48 on camshaft. One tooth would be 15° and 7.5° respectively. Going to get some more coolant tomorrow to fill it back up, then put it back together and see how it runs.

Looking at the manual there is 24 teeth on the crankshaft and 48 on camshaft. One tooth would be 15° and 7.5° respectively.
However, since the cams rotate at half the crank speed, one tooth out on the cams would still translate to 15° of crank angle.

The important thing he has it all lined up correctly now and it should run better if it was originally out.

I am doing my timing belt <edit> I put it all back together with the marks aligned on the cam sprockets and the crankshaft dot aligned with the mark on the engine case. Gave it a few turns to make sure it still matched up which it did. After putting the harmonic balancer back on I notice it's mark is now at 0° on the plastic covers scale. <edit> What effect would having the cams retarded by one tooth have on power, economy and idle quality?

I think you did a better job than the last mechanic.

My new(er) car had the belt 3 Cam teeth out of alignment - when I bought the car the fuel economy was Huge! compared to the old; more than 4L/100 worse than the old Magna, I've posted the long version - but after discovering the miss timing (after the car totally failed to run) and setting it all back to the same settings you have the car for #1 - started - #2 the economy went back to near normal #3 the plugs went from a filthy black to a nice grey/white , the car had a little more zip but not earth shatteringly so, I think the ECU does an amazing job to adjust for the problems

I finished it today. Runs about the same. Maybe a bit better in terms of low down torque but hard to say. The idle is smoother but this may be due to resetting the computer when I disconnected the battery.

After taking it for a drive I set the timing mark to 0° on the harmonic balancer then took off the right hand cover. It seems to be off by a tiny amount (less than 1/4 of a tooth).
http://s8.postimg.org/rnafp717l/2015_02_05_21_15_45_6.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/rnafp717l/)
http://s8.postimg.org/mallb2db5/2015_02_05_21_15_59_90.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/mallb2db5/)

What's involved in checking the cam timing?
I've checked basically everything else that could possibly be the cause of shit economy (14L/100km around town, even driving normally) except for the cam timing, a friend mentioned it previously but I never actually checked it. Be interested to see if it is infact out

After taking it for a drive I set the timing mark to 0° on the harmonic balancer then took off the right hand cover. It seems to be off by a tiny amount

The Tiny amount is OK the Cam Belt Tensioner will flex the belt a bit which will turn the Cams a tiny bit but much less than a tooth

I set the timing mark to 0° on the harmonic balancer then took off the right hand cover. It seems to be off by a tiny amount (less than 1/4 of a tooth).

Noticed that both times I've done a cam belt. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

One more question about my cam belt. After changing it, when I start it up from cold I can hear a very faint rubbing noise. I took the cover off and the belt is rubbing on the inner flange of the water pump pulley. If I spray some water on it the noise goes away. Once warm the noise is gone completley. On inspection of the old water pump the inner flange is shinny indicating that this is the direction the belt tracks in. I think it may go away in time as it all beds in. Could just be a high spot on the pulley as the noise seems to repeat at about the frequency the pulley rotates (10Hz at idle). Any thoughts?

How do I check the cam timing? Not interested in anything else, by all means let me waste time on a futile exercise. I'll even come back and say "you were right" if it makes you feel better

Remove plastic covers from top that cover cams, rotate engine until the marks on the cams line up with notches in housing, There's a mark on the inside of the harmonic balance it should be pointing at 0 on the timing cover scale.

One more question about my cam belt. After changing it, when I start it up from cold I can hear a very faint rubbing noise. I took the cover off and the belt is rubbing on the inner flange of the water pump pulley. If I spray some water on it the noise goes away. Once warm the noise is gone completley. On inspection of the old water pump the inner flange is shinny indicating that this is the direction the belt tracks in. I think it may go away in time as it all beds in. Could just be a high spot on the pulley as the noise seems to repeat at about the frequency the pulley rotates (10Hz at idle). Any thoughts?

So no one has an answer for this?

Jimbo you will never get the timing marks lined up exact, you will always be 1/2 a tooth out, believe me, ive been down this road once before. as for the rubbing try edging the belt away from the flange, but usually the belt will align itself again.

Jimbo you will never get the timing marks lined up exact, you will always be 1/2 a tooth out, believe me, ive been down this road once before. as for the rubbing try edging the belt away from the flange, but usually the belt will align itself again.

Well, half the width of a tooth, anyway - only done the cam belt twice, that's the best I could do. That was on the rear cam, didn't check the front.
Call it "manufacturing tolerances" shall we?

The flange keeps the belt aligned. It is bound to rub on one side or the other as it does its job.
Have a look at the old belt if it does any damage - don't imagine you will find any.

Why the hate?

Hug it out you two!

Magnas are all different. My TL wagon does 11 on a long trip, my TJ gets 7.7 on the same trip.

I think the OP has been answered and this thread has devolved into the continuation of an old one that wasn't very informative either. Probably time to wind this one up?

Millenium7, as far as I can tell, in the previous thread (which I have fully re-read) basically everything that could possibly be the cause of your bad economy has been mentioned, and some have been eliminated. In your position I would re-read the thread taking note of all suggestions, get hold of the workshop manual (if you don't already have it) which shows how to test/align/adjust each component, and methodically eliminate each one. I would also recommend not mentioning top speeds that are illegal just about everywhere (and maybe just a bit optimistic) as this tends to get you labelled as a certain kind of driver. I would also not recommend driving like a granny or like a hoon, as both will tend to give shite economy.

I would also suggest a more accurate fuel usage calculation, since your model lacks the trip computer. Each time you put fuel in, fill it to the brim and record the litres pumped in alongside the current odometer reading. This will give accurate fuel usage figures, particularly if run over a few months.

Why the hate?
Hug it out you two!
Magnas are all different. My TL wagon does 11 on a long trip, my TJ gets 7.7 on the same trip.

Some good thoughts there mate.

As for those who are going back and forth arguing in a Technical thread... Please stop and only post if you have something constructive.
I think most of you have had time to say and read each others views and thoughts - so I have cleaned the thread up.
I apologise if any 'good' info has been deleted, I tried to keep all on-topic posts.