Checked the timing belt a couple nights ago out of curiosity and found that it was all aligned correctly, no problem. Aside from rotating the camshafts I didn't actually unplug or move anything other than the 2 timing belt covers. But since then i've had an occasional misfire at idle. I also noticed it sounded a bit different under acceleration. It's particularly noticeable undercover, sounds deeper and louder almost like I had a slight hole in the exhaust. And finally if I jab the throttle quickly at idle it'll stumble. If I rapidly pull the throttle cable on and off at low rpm then release it, the idle drops and it runs very rough for a second or 2. Couldn't hear any vacuum leaks in the engine bay

I'll have a better look over the weekend when I can raise the car up and check the underside as well. In the meantime any ideas where to look?

No one chimed in so far, strangely, but it sounds like you moved (not intentionally) the crank position sensor wiring/plug etc when you were dealing with the side timing covers. Just judging by what work you did and symptoms described I wouldnt check anything else first. It should be the crank position sensor somewhere along the way to the loom. Check the wiring/covers etc.

possibly. The rear cover over the timing belt was the shittiest thing in the world to remove and then reinstall. Actually broke it in the process
Where is the crank sensor itself? What am I looking for to set it back?


I actually went an replaced the spark plug leads since I have had a misfire from them in the past, rerouting the cables fixed it. They have 1998 written on them so I figure they're the original leads and about time to be replaced anyway
Doesn't seem to have helped much, if I stab the throttle hard at idle it'll stumble and stall

possibly. The rear cover over the timing belt was the shittiest thing in the world to remove and then reinstall. Actually broke it in the process
Where is the crank sensor itself? What am I looking for to set it back?


I actually went an replaced the spark plug leads since I have had a misfire from them in the past, rerouting the cables fixed it. They have 1998 written on them so I figure they're the original leads and about time to be replaced anyway
Doesn't seem to have helped much, if I stab the throttle hard at idle it'll stumble and stall

Try being gentle with plastic bits. They get brittle with age.
Crank angle sensor is at the crankshaft cam belt cog/gear, to the left of it. Not adjustable in any way.
Try being gentle with the throttle, why stab the throttle hard at idle? Never tried this with any car, so I don't know if the stumble/stall is normal or not.

I couldnt actually find a decent picture right now because lazy+++ so a quick google netted me some crappy pics but you may see how a pinch point could be created. Maybe unplug it and plug it back in too (Crank position plug).

http://s215.photobucket.com/user/beam514/media/Galant%20Photos/7-789-09024.jpg.html
http://s215.photobucket.com/user/beam514/media/Galant%20Photos/7-10-09027.jpg.html
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/topspot/DSCN1456.jpg
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/topspot/DSCN1455.jpg
http://s432.photobucket.com/user/rlyons7/media/mivec6g72timing.jpg.html

Dont mind the amount of cams in the last pic the wiring is what you are interested in.

The shitter problem is you can't reallllllly easily fault the cable/crankshaft position sensor wiring even if it looks good. Its sort of in a shielding jacket so it hides well even if there is a potential break in the wire. Its something really easily picked up on a osiloscope however...

Found some of my pics but they are not the best still as didnt intend for this purpose. However im still sticking with it being your crankshaft position sensor

https://plus.google.com/photos/109240826075005387517/albums/6117912609110658673/6117912611119414098
https://plus.google.com/photos/109240826075005387517/albums/6117912609110658673/6117912662149365090
https://plus.google.com/photos/109240826075005387517/albums/6117912609110658673/6117912625715469010

Try being gentle with plastic bits. They get brittle with age.
Crank angle sensor is at the crankshaft cam belt cog/gear, to the left of it. Not adjustable in any way.
Try being gentle with the throttle, why stab the throttle hard at idle? Never tried this with any car, so I don't know if the stumble/stall is normal or not.

Plastics on my car are still quite pliable, However I spent about 20 minutes trying every possible angle and double checking nothing was in the way before I got aggressive with it, it just won't come off. Getting it back on was even more frustrating and difficult. It just catches on every little thing, it's not a simple slide out and away job. The right side cover (from the perspective standing on the front right of the car) came off and went back on easy, the left one is just a maze of frustration. Unless i'm missing the secret technique of getting it on/off easily?

As for stabbing the throttle, it's just one of the symptoms. No engine should stumble and stall with a fast jab of the throttle. If I take off casually from the lights it might stumble a little, but quick acceleration in neutral will stall the car if at idle, anything above 1500rpm is ok. This makes me think its a vacuum leak more than anything, as the engine speed hasn't changed enough for the cam position or sensors to make a big difference. And it was a cam sensor it would have an affect at any RPM surely?
I'm also significantly down on power, by about 30%. Couldn't find any vacuum leaks with water but thats not fool proof so i'll give some carburetor cleaner a try when I get a chance (yes i'm aware of the chance of fire, precautions will be taken)

However a vacuum leak doesn't explain the increase in engine noise, unless there's a hole before the O2 sensor. But if there's one after the O2 sensor would it make any difference to the mixtures?
I'll get underneath the car and have a good look later on

edit: as for the cam position sensor. As above surely it would affect the car at all rpm's and cause a misfire regardless of load or RPM. Which is not the case, it's down on power but it doesn't misfire above 1500rpm. Pretty sure the engine won't spark at all if the cam sensor is disconnected. The camshafts aren't electronically controlled are they? If they are that could explain the difference in engine noise though if it's opening the exhaust valves longer than usual

Jabbing the throttle sharply increases the amount of air entering the plenum chamber, if the ECU doesn't proportionally increase the amount of fuel being injected it will cause a lean mix, and the engine will stumble or stall. This could happen if the MAF was dodgy since the ECU will be acting on incorrect data, or it could happen if air is entering the plenum without passing through the MAF. In fact, there's a whole bunch of reasons this could happen, though none I can think of relate directly to checking your cam timing. If you've double-checked every vac line is on and not split, all PCV pipes are fitted, clear and intact, snorkel isn't split, EGR valve and solenoid are working properly (if fitted) etc. etc. then I'd be thinking MAF, though it's odd that it would go at the same time as the work done at the other end of the engine.

EDIT: If the engine revs smoothly up to decent revs under a light throttle, like just off idle, but dies with a heavier foot, the coil is a likely culprit.

That is the case, the engine will rev up just fine with light throttle, or even with heavy throttle if the revs start off high enough (above 1500-2000rpm) without any stumbling. But on the road it's significantly down on power when doing so so yeah I think it's also something to do with the intake charge

I just tried spraying all the intake components, all around the fuel injectors, intake manifold, hoses etc with some intake cleaner, no change in idle at all

If I disconnect the MAF the computer will just assume 'lots of air' and artificially richen up the mixture won't it? If it were a lean condition (which I think it is) then doing so would effectively richen the mixture. If there was an intake leak this should effectively counter that and cause it to run better wouldn't it?
I'm not sure how the car is supposed to run without the MAF connected though, and for all I know it could be so overly rich that I effectively have the same symptoms

What about the o2 sensor? I bought one not long ago (few months back) from mitsfix so i'm assuming its a good unit. However just assuming its faulty can I also disconnect that and see how it goes? Heck its possible it's come loose and there's the source of the noise and the shitty performance

Sorry, left out the word 'coil' in the edit (fixed). On thinking about your symptoms further, it sounds more like a dodgy coil. They can go without warning, mine was ok driving to work, cactus driving home. Disconnecting the MAF will shunt the ECU to failsafe mode where presumably it calculates the mix based on other inputs (TPS, revs etc.). The motor will run but with horrible economy, something like 30 or 40 litres per 100km. By all means check your O2 sensor for correct fitting and no leaks, but I'd be surprised if that was the cause of your issues.

Coil is built into the distributor isn't it?
Can't I check that with a multimeter?

Coil is built into the distributor isn't it?
Can't I check that with a multimeter?

Yes. In distributor.

Not really. A low voltage like a multimeter may give normal readings, whatever they are, but a coil may still be shorting out internally or going open circuit under normal high voltage running conditions.

Well I thought i'd give the car a go with the MAF disconnected. Car just would not start at all
So I decided to pull the whole thing out and give it a good spray clean again, as well as any of the other connectors I could find. Well it may not be related to the issue, but when I went to unplug the crank sensor plug it just shattered into a dozen pieces, completely exploding the outside part of the connector..... ok........ right... anyway I also disconnected the plug to the left of it that runs off the same wiring. It's a single yellow wire to a small plug, well that was absolutely full of crud so that might be the culprit. Gave it a good clean out. Problem though is after reassembling everything and bodging the crank sensor back together, car won't start. So i'm letting it sit to reset the ECU and will try again

Can I purchase the crank sensor plugs somewhere?

As for the coil/distributor. Better to purchase them seperately or as a whole unit? Go for one from a wreckers (no way to know if its good though?) or new?

I think you'd need specialist equipment to test the coil properly, maybe an auto elec could do it? Dunno, in my case Mal (MadMagna) diagnosed the cause of the fault (correctly) from the symptoms, which were essentially identical to yours. Usual practice is to swap out the dizzy rather than buggerize around with pulling out the coil, though some on the forum have done it that way. The way I figure it, swapping the dizzy is relatively simple and it's a good opportunity to fit a new O-ring seal, since this seems to be a common-ish leak point if this forum is any indicator.

Crank angle plug:
Can't imagine these are available new.
I would go to a wrecker, and cut the plug and socket off a wreck, with 10 to 20 cm of wiring at both ends. Then cut and splice, match up colours on your wiring, solder, heat shrink tube, etc.

Well the cars just plainly refusing to start now. I left the battery disconnected over night just to make sure the ECU was properly reset. It cranks but won't fire up, I occasionally get a cough but thats it
I pulled the 3 front spark plugs and they're all sparking as it cranks over so I guess that rules out electrical. Plugs were all very wet so i'm assuming the fuel injectors are firing
So probably MAF on its way out and it finally died when I cleaned it?

Got it started by jumping with another battery and cranking it for longer. Ran like utter shit for a minute or so and needed the throttle nursing to keep it going. I tried disconnecting the MAF and it was even harder to start and just wouldn't idle, so it is working to some capacity but how well I don't know. It's still doing the same thing as before, misfiring, still loud, 0-100 is used to be about 9 seconds now its 14.5
So supposedly it could be MAF or ignition coil. Surely the coil would work better at high revs though? I can understand a crappy idle but being down on power by that much when there's no misfiring at higher rpm?
I don't really want to just start chucking parts at it if I can help it. At the moment i'm still leaning towards MAF

Do the KF's have the capacity to check fuel trims with a scanner tool to see if it is actually the MAF?

Still yet to check the underside of the car

Bad MAF won't cause that, engine will start and run fine without it, just with very bad economy. My guess is still the coil.

Found someone with a magna willing to swap MAF for a while to see if it does change things. If its much the same, i'll get a new ignition coil

Went to patch up that cover with some epoxy, thought i'd check the timing again while i'm at it. I have no idea how but it seems the timing belt has jumped 2 or 3 teeth. It was correct when I checked it before, now its showing the camshafts need to be 2.5 teeth clockwise in order to line up with TDC on the crankshaft marker.

So, easiest way to remove the timing belt and set it back correctly?

edit: Starting a new thread since this is almost certainly the issue

Hi guys. Same problem here. My 97 TE Magna V6. In sudden acceleration the car misfires and stalls. Replaced the plugs, filters and pump still has the problem.

In my case my timing belt was out by 2 teeth. So the lesson is DO NOT turn the engine over by the camshafts, as that caused it to skip 2 teeth. Quite amazing the ECU can compensate so much
I found this out by checking the timing again, in the process causing it to skip some more and lock the engine. Thankfully I never used the starter motor and only tried to turn it over by hand, but had to get it towed into a workshop and have them pull the timing belt off and reset everything. Now it runs perfect again, infact a little bit more response at light to mid throttle openings. Except my fuel consumption is still utterly dreadful so it was just an expensive exercise in futility

Least they did my A/C which is now cold enough to make a polar bear uncomfortable