Hey dudes!

Recently bought a TJ 5 spd auto sports wagon. After having a trans flush a piece of the wave spring was found. The car is running great and I'm told most people wait until the trans fails before swapping it over. If this has happened to you, how long did it take for your trans to fail? (I realise this is a bit of a "how long is a piece of string?" question). Thanks in advance

Anthony

While waiting for a response from anyone who found broken wave spring and subsequently had transmission damage, I've gotta say IMO that it could be any time and couldnt be predicted. Firstly, a spring can have multiple breaks. Mine broke in two places. Secondly, it just depends on how a piece travels through the system and whether it interferes with anything along the way. I could imagine one might go forever and another might fail the next day. Just luck of the draw. I think of it as like a ticking time bomb.

I do wonder if its possible for a piece that made it to the sump to be picked up again in the ATF and travel through the system again. If thats likely then would be a good reason to regularly inspect it for pieces and remove them. If not, then maybe that reduces the chance of a transmission failure... If a piece is already in the sump...although as I said mine had multiple breaks.
Actually I think pieces would just continue to break off over time. When I inspected my broken spring I saw it was a fatigue problem and the entire spring was in exactly the same condition for its length.

I recently put the car in for auto service and found spring broken. Got it replaced straight away. I think most fix straight away rather than waiting for massive failure. Much cheaper to swap now.

Thanks guys. Highlander, you got the spring replaced or the whole transmission?

Just to clarify, by swapping it over I'm referring to having a second hand transmission installed. Simply replacing the wave spring now was not suggested as an option. In which case does anyone know a worthy trans mechanic on the mornington peninsula?

I just had the wave spring replaced and a cooler added. An inspection of the transmission was made and there was no damage so was obviously cheaper and only necessary to replace the wave spring.

So, if there trans is running smoothly would I be best to just get the spring replaced without having the trans removed? I'm wondering why this wasn't mentioned as an option by the mechanic. I was told either a total rebuild at $3k or replace with a used model at $1.3k. Mine only has just over 100,000kms on it. Cheers

I'd suggest getting the wave spring replaced. You can get it upgraded to the stronger wave spring of the later magnas and it's only around $800 to do and doesn't require the transmission to be removed. The stronger wave spring will future proof the car from any more wave spring breakage for the rest of the life of the car.

If you're looking for a good mechanic, I'd suggest Mits-Fix in Bayswater. They're a sponsor of AMC and do fantastic work. I cannot recommend them enough!

Check out this link as it may have some answers to your questions about wave spring failure. http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103812&highlight=wave+spring+pr%E9vention

Hope this helps

Thanks TimTam. It was Mits-fix who I went to, based on recommendations from this forum. I will call them tomorrow to discuss again as there may have been some miscommunication as I was under the impression the only viable options were total rebuild or replacement. Cheers

The place that replaced my wave spring (which was not known to be broken at the time) warned me that if it was found to be broken and they couldn't recover all the pieces to make up the complete spring during the in-car replacement, including from the sump, that they wouldn't warrant the work without pulling the gearbox out for a complete stripdown to check everything.

The quote I was given was on the basis the work was preventative maintenance and that the gearbox was operational with no known damage to the wave spring. In my case, the spring came out in 3 pieces however the two small pieces that had broken off were still in place so no further investigation was necessary.

If you already have a piece recovered from the sump, that would mean that many places would not even consider "preventative maintenance" as a basis to quote - there is already a known issue even if the gearbox is still apparently working satisfactorily.

In case you are interested, this thread (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100417) will give you some idea of what's involved.

In my opinion just fitting a replacement transmission now is a waste of money as you might as well wait until (if) yours fails.

As per WytWun, I had mine replaced as preventative maintenance. It also out broken (unbeknownst prior to disassembly).

Seeing as you have a rare and expensive transmission I would recommend having the wave spring replaced. As mentioned if the entire spring cannot be pieced together like a puzzle then the transmission needs to come out for in depth inspection.

You CANT do this with the box in, I am not sure how many times I need to state this but I am sure the "experts" here will tell me otherwise

IF the box is in, how in hell are you going to determine you got all the bits back out of the box, how are you going to change the filter and do the job properly.

"You dont need to change the filter" all the experts say, WELL HOW IN HELL ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE BROKEN BITS STUCK IN THE FILTER OUT!!!!!

Simple thing is do the job properly or simply dont bother doing it at all. "preventative" replacement is a load of rubbish, yes the springs do break, we all know that but reading these forums anyone would think this is the one and only issue with transmissions. Is it not funny how every trans I pull bits of these springs out of have no cooler and the fluid is usually as black as an old car tyre

Sorry, I get frustrated when despite being told so many times that so many with an opinion still think they are experts, hell I have only been doing this most of my life but what would I know hey

..."preventative" replacement is a load of rubbish, yes the springs do break, we all know that but reading these forums anyone would think this is the one and only issue with transmissions. Is it not funny how every trans I pull bits of these springs out of have no cooler and the fluid is usually as black as an old car tyre

Thankyou Mal, I'm glad someone else has also said it. It seems that people are forgetting that torque converters, oil pumps and planetary gears all exist in that big metal box - all of which have been known to fail, independent of a wavespring failure.
I'm all for being proactive in repairs and maintenance where its warranted or economical do to so, but a wavespring replacement by itself is by no means a silver bullet safeguard for F4A51 or F5A51 transmissions.

Thanks for the responses. As confirmed by Mits-fix and transmission specialist, the transmission needs to come out to replace broken spring. I'm going with this option. Obviously when it's opened up if there is any other issues they'll need to be fixed too. So I should definitely add an aftermarket cooler? Once again, thanks for your time

Yes, definitely consider fitting a cooler.

You CANT do this with the box in, I am not sure how many times I need to state this but I am sure the "experts" here will tell me otherwise

IF the box is in, how in hell are you going to determine you got all the bits back out of the box, how are you going to change the filter and do the job properly.

"You dont need to change the filter" all the experts say, WELL HOW IN HELL ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE BROKEN BITS STUCK IN THE FILTER OUT!!!!! <snip>
What Mal states here is very important and needs to be taken into consideration if you're planning on replacing the wave spring without removing the box. When I had mine done the fellow warned me that if he couldn't find all the bits of spring then the box would have to be removed (and job would take an additional day to complete).
I was totally shocked when they told me the wave spring in my car was broken, but very happy to hear that they'd located the broken piece. You can place the spring and broken piece together and see that the spring is complete which means no piece is missing.
But its a risk. Also, my box had 75k's on it which is why I'd assumed the spring probably wouldn't be broken.

As mentioned previously the spring is put together like a puzzle. If it is not complete then yes the transmission does need to come out.

Just to report back. Got the transmission pulled out, dismantled, broken wave spring replaced with stronger one, checked clutch packs and replaced reverse frictions (?). One day for $990 at Bayswater Automatics. I asked about installing an additional trans cooler but was told that unless you're towing with 5 adults and a bootfull of luggage there is no need. Not to throw fuel on the fire of that argument but there is one opinion. Anyway, thanks all for the advice dudes :)

I think the opinion is taking into account automatic cars in general. From what I gather on these forums most automatic cars came with half decent external ATF coolers standard (in the case of the 2nd gen, and Ford/Holden equivalent cars for example) unlike the 3rd gen which seemed to have received less than ideal cooling from factory.

Just to report back. Got the transmission pulled out, dismantled, broken wave spring replaced with stronger one, checked clutch packs and replaced reverse frictions (?). One day for $990 at Bayswater Automatics. I asked about installing an additional trans cooler but was told that unless you're towing with 5 adults and a bootfull of luggage there is no need. Not to throw fuel on the fire of that argument but there is one opinion. Anyway, thanks all for the advice dudes :)
Thats same day? I think that sounds pretty good for the price. Mitsubishi should be recalling these though and fixing the problem at no, or at least at low, cost. I'd accept a deal where we pay say a couple hundred on an out of warranty basis.

Thats same day? I think that sounds pretty good for the price. Mitsubishi should be recalling these though and fixing the problem at no, or at least at low, cost. I'd accept a deal where we pay say a couple hundred on an out of warranty basis.

I'd say the chances of that happening considering the affected cars are, at minimum, 10 years old is zero. Most are well outside what manufacturers would consider the vehicle's useful/planned lifespan (earliest are almost 19 years old now); and most would have occurred outside the planned lifespan of the transmission (approx 180,000km)
Not in your case, obviously, given the low mileage, but the car is still over 10 years old.
The time for owners to get vocal about it was 10+ years ago.

Ok, so I've heard so many myths, legends, facts, bullsh1t, whatever about this bloody wave spring... can anybody who actually knows (ie. mechanics and others who've worked on 3rd Gens a lot) give an estimate of how likely the are to actually explode? Are we talking about 10%? 50%? Or is it more like 90%? I change my fluid regularly (4sp tippy), never letting it get black or anything like it, but have not fitted a cooler despite running a few 1000km+ trips annually, sometimes towing a tinny. The standard advice will obviously be to fit a cooler, and I plan to, but honestly, how worried should I be?

Ok, so I've heard so many myths, legends, facts, bullsh1t, whatever about this bloody wave spring... can anybody who actually knows (ie. mechanics and others who've worked on 3rd Gens a lot) give an estimate of how likely the are to actually explode? Are we talking about 10%? 50%? Or is it more like 90%? I change my fluid regularly (4sp tippy), never letting it get black or anything like it, but have not fitted a cooler despite running a few 1000km+ trips annually, sometimes towing a tinny. The standard advice will obviously be to fit a cooler, and I plan to, but honestly, how worried should I be?

I am neither, but personally my TJ1 non-tippy sedan hasn't had a rebuild or replacement box in its 267,000km travelled (90,000km of which during my ownership) to my knowledge. Flushes at 190k & 247k (and assumedly at least one prior to my ownership as the fluid was somewhat red) and no cooler.

On the otherhand my TJ2 4sp-tippy wagon had a reco box fitted at 168,000km, not during my ownership so I unfortunately can't shed light on the cause.

I seem to hear more about wave spring failures happening to tippy-equipped vehicles, or is it just me? I can't see how, as they're the same box if I'm not mistaken?

While you're waiting, also see here (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97495&highlight=Eave+spring)

While you're waiting, also see here (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97495&highlight=Eave+spring)

Interesting, but considering how many Magna's are out there the sample size on the poll is too low for the figures to be considered in any way significant. Thanks for the link, much appreciated.