Hi Guys,

I've just joined this forum recently as my '97 Altera is getting on & starting to get problems. I've already replaced the fan resistors thanks to this forum. The next step is maybe replacing the cd/radio & maybe taking the dash off to try & fix the A/C ducting which I suspect is losing air through the rubbers as it just doesn't get very cold....not looking forward to that job.

Anyway, to the point of this post. Some years ago the air vent lever wouldn't go all the way over to the recycle so I just left it on outside intake & didn't worry about it. Since I have taken out the glove box to fix the resistor bank I believe I have now found what the problem is but I'm not sure how to fix it. I believe the arm that is operated by the lever has popped out of it's location because the top arm, that I believe actually operates the vent, has no connection to the actuating arm that is operated by the lever.

If you can understand what I just wrote then you are much smarter than me!

I was just going to post some photos but I haven't permission, can someone please explain why that may be? It's impossible to explain this issue without a photo.

No idea regarding your specific issue, but regarding photos use Photobucket or similar and post the link here.

I think I follow what you are saying. Cars with standard HVAC heating/cooling (ie: manual twisty knobs) have three mechanical wires, a long one in a black sheath that comes from the HVAC controls and routes behind the glovebox/passenger airbag area, a short black one that routes to the left side of the driver's footwell that controls the airflow position (face, face/feet, demist, etc), and a short blue one that goes to almost the same spot as the short black one, which actually comes from the centre air vents. The blue one is connected to the "cool air dial" on the centre vents, and is used to introduce cool air (when set to the upper/blue position) to the upper body when heating your legs or demisting the windscreen, in order to prevent you from overheating while your feet/windscreen get toasty. For more info, check your car's user manual under "ventilation". This wire doesn't have anything to do with the fresh/recirculating air function, so there's no need to worry about that, unless it itself is not connected to the plastic lever arm under the dash in the driver footwell area - if that is the case, then the cool/"normal" air function as described won't work. The other short black one doesn't affect the fresh/recircuating air system either.

The long black wire is the one that controls the fresh/recirculating air function. As it is a mechanical wire, the sheath is just as important to its operation as the wire inside it. You will need to make sure that the sheath has been latched down in the clips properly and in the right locations. To get an idea of what the wire should be doing, disconnect the end of the wire from the lever arm from behind the glovebox, and move the slider on the HVAC controls left to right to gauge how the wire moves. If the sheath seams to move with the wire, then it hasn't been anchored properly in its clips and could be part of the problem. The wire should move independently of the sheath, and the sheath should remain quite still. Also, manually move the lever arm the wire should be attached to to see where the lever arm should be extending to at either slider position (ie: where the lever arm should be at fresh or recycle positions).

Because it is a mechanical wire, the problem and its solution should be reasonably easy to identify. Just use a bit of logic and a process of elimination and the answer should come up. If you have an internally snapped wire or something like that, then the wire wouldn't move much at the end.

PS: If the cool/"normal" air wheel is having troubles after trying to hook it up, use the same troubleshooting process explained above. Also make sure the wire for this is routed the right way around the dash supports (metal brackets). I can't rember if it should be the left or right side of the bracket, but it will be clear when you look at it as one way will give more wiggle room for the wire to reach the leaver arm than the other.

Great explanation. I am having the exact problem with the cool / normal cable (ie the lever won't move past the halfway mark). If I pull the centre vents out there doesn't seem to be enough "slack" to reconnect? There also isn't enough room to fix this coming in from underneath near the footwell. Is there a trick to this like removing the radio or similar?

With the centre vents, unhook the wire ring from its lever arm by using a pair of pliers or something to pinch the plastic pin on the lever, allowing the ring to come off easily. Also release the sheath from the clip near the top end - this metal clip is often quite tight. You can then pull the vents out easily.

Basically the problem you are having with this set up is the wheel and lever arm positions were not "aligned" properly. Let me try to explain it: in your wheels current state, pushing the wheel all the way up to "cool" has the wire push or pull (whichever way the cool setting for the lever arm is) the lever arm to the cool position. The lever arm cannot move any further in this direction, so you can't twist the wheel up any more either. Pushing the wheel down towards "normal", the wire moves the lever arm towards the normal position, but the wire reaches the end of its travel prematurely (because of the misalignment) - the lever arm still has further to go, but the wire is now the restricting component and the wheel gets stuck at that halfway point. All you need to do is realign this wire and it will be fine.

To do this, look at what the wire does at either end of its travel (whether it is extended all the way out or retracted all the way in at either the cool or normal wheel positions, if that makes sense). Then, move the lever arm from one position to the other as well, to identify which position of the lever arm relates to the appropriate position on the wheel. Choose one of these extremes (ie: normal or cool) as these are the easiest points to align the wire to the lever arm, connect it all up and it should be working properly. Don't forget it is very important that the sheath should be anchored in its clip(s) such that when the wire is in the "all the way in" position, the sheath is not obstructing or hindering the movement of the internal wire (the ring doesn't get stuck at the end of the sheath).

Thanks, I'll give it a go this weekend and let you know. I see there might be an issue with the cable not "clipped" onto one of the brackets at the metal support. I'll take photos for the next person with this issue.

Thanks for very much for the help guys. Link to photos below via Dropbox. I have made some notes with Paint on the top photo which you will have to zoom in to read. I dont think I have the issue noted by Hyphen regarding the vent but it does assist with the understanding of how these air flows work. Much appreciated.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1w8vhj5vua1a4hj/AADajrGAroHSw9ra_7H5KXwHa?dl=0

What Im asking is does the vent work just by the operation of the bottom arm i.e is the vent under the phillips head screw of the bottom arm? Or does the bottom arm need to be pinned to the top arm? I assume it does have to be pinned otherwise the top metal rod cant be activated in its current state & I believe the top arm is the actual vent....sorry for the convoluted explanation?question!

In a word: yes. I'm not quite sure what is behind the other levers, if anything, but the upper-left lever arm must be connected for the system to work. You are right in saying the large, bottom arm should have its plastic pin inside the hole in the smaller, top arm. I took a quick peek at my own car's configuration to confirm this.

For reference, I have drawn the system in its two ultimate states — recirculating (top) and fresh (bottom) — as I didn't really want to pull my dash apart too much to grab photos instead.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s367/TehHyphen/AMC/recirc900_zpsnnjennkw.png


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s367/TehHyphen/AMC/fresh900_zpsj979gbbz.png

Thank you very much Hyphen! I can't believe the trouble you have gone to assist me with this problem.
This forum is an amazing resource. I have just purchased some globes from the UK after reading the headlight thread.
I was pretty sure this was the problem so had already tried pinning the arms back together but it popped out as soon as I moved the lever. Not surprising as something has to be wrong to make it jump out in the 1st place. May have to do some fiddling around to see what the problem is.
Thanks again...now to check out the forum for faster wipers thread :)

BTW, are you are graphic artist? That drawing is brilliantly done!

[QUOTE=Hyphen;1623575]

The long black wire is the one that controls the fresh/recirculating air function. As it is a mechanical wire, the sheath is just as important to its operation as the wire inside it. You will need to make sure that the sheath has been latched down in the clips properly and in the right locations. To get an idea of what the wire should be doing, disconnect the end of the wire from the lever arm from behind the glovebox, and move the slider on the HVAC controls left to right to gauge how the wire moves. If the sheath seams to move with the wire, then it hasn't been anchored properly in its clips and could be part of the problem. The wire should move independently of the sheath, and the sheath should remain quite still. Also, manually move the lever arm the wire should be attached to to see where the lever arm should be extending to at either slider position (ie: where the lever arm should be at fresh or recycle positions).

Because it is a mechanical wire, the problem and its solution should be reasonably easy to identify. Just use a bit of logic and a process of elimination and the answer should come up. If you have an internally snapped wire or something like that, then the wire wouldn't move much at the end.



Hello Hyphen. After trying to put the bottom arm into the top arm it kept popping out so I started fiddling with the sheath location as per your 1st post above in relation to lever position & presto, it no longer pops out. The air vent lever now works perfectly. The sheath was fixed & wasn't moving so I don't why but it must have moved all those years ago. Because of where it was positioned it must have been putting too much strain on the arm which made it flex & pop out of it's location. Great job mate, thanks.

I'm glad you were able to come up with the solution and that I could be of assistance. I may have neglected to mention or not explained the problems with the sheath properly (that's the hard part about writing help articles, how-tos and user guides, the reader often has no idea what you're writing about so you can't leave anything out, even when it makes perfect sense to you). If the sheath was pinned down in the wrong location then the system wouldn't work as intended either, just as how you've found out here: having the sheath pinned too close to the levers would put undue stress on the levers, causing them to pop out of place - yet another misalignment issue. I can see now from your photos that the clip's "teeth marks" near the end of the sheath meant that the wire was being held too close to the levers. As I'm sure you noticed the clips are very tight and strong, so it wouldn't have happened "naturally" as its designed this way to avoid this. This could have happened if somebody has done work on this area in the past and ignorantly threw it back together "near enough is good enough" without realising the consequences.

I appreciate your compliments too, but no I'm not a graphic artist. I'm a (student) Engineer who knows how to use Paint.NET very well - I really should learn how to use Photoshop or GIMP, but the simplicity of Paint.NET (which has all the features MS Paint should have, plus more) wins almost every time. I guess I could have used AutoCAD too, but we didn't need that level of accuracy. So thank you, and again, you're welcome.