Hi, I'm not optimistic anyone will have an answer for this but I can only ask.

Back in 2009/10 i was not happy with the box with the 2-3 change flaring. Mits agreed to exchange the box - happy.

box was supplied by third party / re-manufactured - not so happy.

I did post up a big whinge about the saga at the time.

The short of it is 3 boxes in total were fitted from the same supplier Fluid drive.

each and every box had a new issue and never really been happy with this one either.

In hindsight I should have just accepted my box as it was because it was a minor flaw although each of these replacements had varying degrees of shift flare on 2-3 except box #2 which was perfect except the gear selection was seizing when left overnight and really cold. Yu could not get it in at all untill the motor had been running for several minutes- weird.

Anyway box #3 is now displaying the same issue as #2. I'm in darwin so ambients are not cold but has cooled recently and this box is binding as you go through selection.

D is the hardest. this morning it was binding, after getting it to D when I went to go back i was stuck between D & n , both display lights lit.

After running it for a few minutes it get better and by the time i drove for a few minutes, problem was gone and no indication there was ever a problem.

My wife drives it and even when left all day, in the afternoon it's ok, but overnight first thing it's a problem again.

I've already proven the linkage is not the issue which leaves internal on the valve body manual valve I assume.

anybody ever struck this?

Anyone know more about the mechanics of the manual valve?

i'm stumped on how this can happen unless the body is worn and the valve is not travelling straight.

I can only assume with some heat expansion frees it but how much heat would be generated in only a few minutes in a valve body?

I'm probably talking rot but I've been driving a long time and had a few magnas and I'm blaming the remanufacturing process because 2 boxes in a row from fluid drive have the same issue.

Not really brave enough to mess with the valve body so will work around it warming the car up.

This box has done about 60 000k from install, diff is a bit whiney at low speeds which is how I got it.

cheers.

found this which has the same trans. no pics which is unfortunate but almost sounds like build up around the shaft but his sounds like it was worse. no mention of it being intermittent or free after running the engine.

http://www.club3g.com/forum/problem-reports/160428-gts-auto-transmission-shifter-stiff-wont-shift.html

I'm going to ask the dumb questions, because that's what I'm good at.

It's not just the cable? Between the selector and the gearbox?

Or, the inhibitor switch?

I'm going to ask the dumb questions, because that's what I'm good at.

It's not just the cable? Between the selector and the gearbox?

Or, the inhibitor switch?

I'm good with the obvious stuff. cable is free as a bird. must admit I have not looked at the switch. is that detented at all or free wheeling inside? Never played with one. I may have a look in the morning if it's binding again which I expect it will be.

I believe, but could be wrong, that the switch assembly is the white assembly at the business end of the cable... transmission end.

I'm only suggesting that as a guess based on your comment about the indicator showing two gears selected at once. Can't say I've ever seen that happens before.

Let me re-read everything in your posts again, so I can get my head around "binding". To me that would imply the box selecting two gears at once, like an old Holden four speed. Point is it ends in no drive and pain.

I believe, but could be wrong, that the switch assembly is the white assembly at the business end of the cable... transmission end.

I'm only suggesting that as a guess based on your comment about the indicator showing two gears selected at once. Can't say I've ever seen that happens before.

Let me re-read everything in your posts again, so I can get my head around "binding". To me that would imply the box selecting two gears at once, like an old Holden four speed. Point is it ends in no drive and pain.

Well binding, jamming, tight, restricted. pick one but essentially friction to the point I have to use excessive force to achieve selection and when I went in the reverse direction it was harder and got stuck in between selection points.

I know sounds absurd but this is what is happening. jumped in the car an hour ago. last driven around 12 and there was a hint of stiffness as i slid it into D so i still feel temperature is part of the problem as if i have metal to metal clearance issue. I have it in my head that the manual valve slides in and out of the valve body orifice to direct fluid and i have this horrible feeling it's an internal issue not the external components on the box.

I don't spend time here much now but there's been a lot of magnas over the years and I don't recall reading a post here about this issue. You'd think if this was a normal wear and tear someone would have commented.

that 3G link i found is dated 2012 so that was not around the last time i searched WWW. Anyway, this car is 10 now, i keep forgetting that , solid car though but the box is only 5 yo and 60-70000.

Okay, so its not in the drive of the car - as in it's not a "load" on the car. This is the selection of the gears?

I was always taught to start simple when trying to solve problems. I'd disconnect the selector cable at the shift assembly inside the car - kind of easy to do. This then allows you to check the stick moves normally without the influence of the cable/transmission.

If that's no problem, I'd reconnect the cable to the shift assembly. Then, disconnect the cable at the transmission. Also, kinda easy to do. Then I would check the shifter moves normally. If it does, then you could say with some confidence that the shifter assembly and cable are fine, and, that your issues are (possibly) within the transmission.

You're right in suggesting that this is very unique issue. I've owned three Magna's and never seen this issue. My sons 5spd Manual needed its cables lubed but thats about as close as I get to an issue similar to yours.

My bet is that the cable has been installed incorrectly at the gearbox end. My guess... because that's all I can do.

Okay, so its not in the drive of the car - as in it's not a "load" on the car. This is the selection of the gears?

I was always taught to start simple when trying to solve problems. I'd disconnect the selector cable at the shift assembly inside the car - kind of easy to do. This then allows you to check the stick moves normally without the influence of the cable/transmission.

If that's no problem, I'd reconnect the cable to the shift assembly. Then, disconnect the cable at the transmission. Also, kinda easy to do. Then I would check the shifter moves normally. If it does, then you could say with some confidence that the shifter assembly and cable are fine, and, that your issues are (possibly) within the transmission.

You're right in suggesting that this is very unique issue. I've owned three Magna's and never seen this issue. My sons 5spd Manual needed its cables lubed but thats about as close as I get to an issue similar to yours.

My bet is that the cable has been installed incorrectly at the gearbox end. My guess... because that's all I can do.

It's been fine for 5 years so wrong installation would have expected be a problem straight up. I'll disconnect at the trans end and check it out again but yeah it's interesting except if this gets worse which i expect it will especially if i get sent south again where it's cooler , winter mornings could be fun. With the other box, I could not even shift it out of park. I remember I was using enough force to the point if I went harder i'd destroy the bushings or damage the shifter assembly.

same deal though, let the car run and warmup and mysteriously it would free itself. but every morning was the same deal.

Moving the selector out of Park can be very difficult if you've parked on an incline and used Park to hold the car rather than the handbrake, loading up the driveline. The car should be allowed to settle on the handbrake in Neutral before Park is selected. If this definitely isn't the problem (from your description it doesn't sound like it is) and this really is a rare fault (I've not heard of it before but that means nothing, check with an auto specialist), considering you've had two transmissions with this problem I'd suspect one of three things. Either the issue is with the selector/cable, Fluid drive do something wrong when reconditioning these transmissions, or there's something specific about how you use or maintain your transmission that's causing the problem. I can only repeat the obvious things, ie. is your fluid ok (not brown or black) and is it of the correct type (OEM is the best, multigrade fluids should be avoided... do you know what Fluid-drive fill their reco boxes with?). If these can all be eliminated I can only suggest taking it to a trusted professional.

Moving the selector out of Park can be very difficult if you've parked on an incline and used Park to hold the car rather than the handbrake, loading up the driveline. The car should be allowed to settle on the handbrake in Neutral before Park is selected. If this definitely isn't the problem (from your description it doesn't sound like it is) and this really is a rare fault (I've not heard of it before but that means nothing, check with an auto specialist), considering you've had two transmissions with this problem I'd suspect one of three things. Either the issue is with the selector/cable, Fluid drive do something wrong when reconditioning these transmissions, or there's something specific about how you use or maintain your transmission that's causing the problem. I can only repeat the obvious things, ie. is your fluid ok (not brown or black) and is it of the correct type (OEM is the best, multigrade fluids should be avoided... do you know what Fluid-drive fill their reco boxes with?). If these can all be eliminated I can only suggest taking it to a trusted professional.

I've been driving for 30 years so I'm full bottle on applying park.

Mitsubishi fitted all these boxes so I'm confident it's SPIII

Mrs car so not driven hard, fluid still looks good probably should change it though but i don't think that's it since the "Brand new " box #2 did it from install

All I can say about these is they have excellent external appearance when presented,internally who knows what they do or use. I even had to get this box resealed on the end cover because they could not even master that part of the job. Quality control and consistent they are not.

Finding a specialist i trust - I'm yet to find a trans shop that does not take people for a ride or knows WTF they're doing. I'm sure they're out there but I've been burnt a few too many times.

If i was in Vic, I'd definitely give madmagna a shot.

anyway , appreciate the input but unless someone comes in and says i had this exact fault and it was xyz, I'll have to work around it for a while. maybe consider getting an exchange valve body complete.

This trans does other crazy stuff like the TC locking up in 4th between 60-70 clicks up a Hill. Pretty sure the TC should released before the engine starts to labour. sticks in 3rd to around a corner i can sometimes catch it in the wrong gear and get a sudden shift when I apply the throttle which i suspect is a pressure problem or something sticking.

i could go on forever, have been tolerating it as it is but this reoccurence of the sticking shifter just brings back bad feelings on the whole deal.

so I joyously looked at it this morning. same deal. cabling is free. Just as you get to N it binds and is quite stiff. i ripped off all the gear to get to the selector shaft and you can feel roughness in the detent as you go through N - d. feels very metal on metal roughness as if the detent maybe worn. Gonna be an internal repair of something but once in D and drive a bit and free as again. maybe some fluid splashes up there and lubes it, honestly don't know.

I've been driving for 30 years so I'm full bottle on applying park.

Sorry, didn't intend to sound condescending, just wanted to ensure the obvious things could be eliminated. From what you describe it does sound like an internal thing but it's beyond my experience, hopefully someone who's seen this before jumps in and can give you some good news but I suspect it won't be possible to diagnose online, unfortunately.

Sorry, didn't intend to sound condescending, just wanted to ensure the obvious things could be eliminated. From what you describe it does sound like an internal thing but it's beyond my experience, hopefully someone who's seen this before jumps in and can give you some good news but I suspect it won't be possible to diagnose online, unfortunately.

That's cool, a wee bit frustrated. yeah you're right all guesses. i usually have a go at most fixes but the auto box I'm very reluctant to mess with. may need to read up a bit and see just how complex working on that selector shaft is. If it gets no worse we can manage it

I did discover along the way why my batt terminal keeps loading up with acid. Exide casing has split in a star pattern around the terminal with pinholes letting acid out. 3yr wty, lets hope they do the righty.

poor girl is showing age, still drives well but darwin heat is pretty harsh

Not much progress with this. I'm down to one car as the galant looks like it dumped a coil or iginitor module. Must be Mits give me the shits week.

Anyway, this is what i did.

I went the whole hog and removed the inhibitor switch but the car had been driven which did not help with fault finding, so although felt a little rough not binding enough to jam.

With the switch off, i felt nothing unusual in that. it's full plastic body and spindle. fully dismantled it and definitely wear in there. you could see scrape marks and portions worn low enough to expose copper under the contact plating. the grease in there was getting cruddy , looked much like a coppery paste in parts.

I fully cleaned it up and repacked it with electrical grease. It is possible to move the selector slow enough to get N & D to illuminate at once. I don't think after looking at the switch there's a fault just it's being exaggerated when the selector stiffens because it's slow and resistive to move.

the contacts are a spring loaded copper head set in a plastic wiper arm. there's no way these can jam from what i see.

With it off, I clicked by hand the selector and I can feel a definitely difference in feel going in and out of D. from N to R it feels slippery smooth, but N-D it has a gritty feel. there's no corrosion around the shaft and transaxle housing, there was some oily residue maybe from assembly. did not feel like trans fluid, maybe some rubber grease for the O-ring in the switchbody.

I sprayed WD40 around the shaft and rapidly moved it back and forth R-N-D-N-R etc. the WD40 just sat there so that suggests the O-ring around the shaft is good and all I saw was the WD40 mixing with the alloy oxide and produce a grey pool of WD40.

I am thinking worst case scenario that there is wear in the VALVE BODY / manual valve and debris trapped? Or and I don't know if it's possible but severely worn A/T MANUAL CONTROL SHAFT DETENT, or MANUAL CONTROL LEVER SHAFT.

It seems really weird just the one position of the manual valve is giving trouble too if it was debris as I'd expect it to cause all movement to bind up.

I do think I'm looking at internals though now.

I don't see any seals on that manual valve either that could brake and foul, looks like metal on metal in the valve body. (from pictures I've seen)

I did find some other makes with similar syptoms, BMW which there was varied opinions including the trundles in the part that bolts to the arm.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1076763-Stiff-automatic-transmission-gear-shift

I checked my pivot point at the end of the cable, it spins nice and free.

Also Tacoma which has an alloy bodied switch which severely corrodes due to salt also similar symptoms .

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/05-tacoma-stiff-automatic-gear-shifter.153019/page-3

I'm not thinking switch at all now.

If anyone is bored and like to help out trying this for me. I have a TW with tippy.

Try moving the selector from N-D as slow a you can preferably so it is in between ranges and see if the N & D illuminate.

Also I experimented with the switch removed and running the car. removed, no start, which was expected. I then connected it and set the switch to N., i moved to R, went into R with a horribly sharp jolting shift, back to N, car in neutral, then went D, No D?.

I always thought the manual valve gave 3rd and R just in case of electrical failure? But I'm also think R yes, D no since it was in N and not in limp. maybe limp is all solenoids de-energised? I obviously don't know but I'd be interested if what happened is normal.

I put it all back and did the relearn gig(again). A ittle roughness getting to D, took it for a blat and as usual once I get back, goes into D without a hint of roughness.

if i ever get to the bottom of this i'll be posting it but ii really feel it's valve body. I doubt a fluid change will do anything and being the 2nd box from same supplier to end up with similar issues i really wonder how close to tolerance they check these or if they even touch the valve body. All speculation

valve body is out and so far I'm 100% correct. manual valve is jamming in the bore as it approaches the D area of the valving. It completely jammed today and 2-3 seconds to get reverse. i'm hoping as I progress through the valve body that's all it is maybe the valve in the wrong position and debris restricting the fluid flow. there were a few 1mm bits of metal on the sump plug and there is significant wear on the pin the guide plate travels along to slide this in and out. Almost hexagonal in appearance when should be round with grooves and burrs due to the excess force to move the valve.

good chance metal falkes have come off this.

One thing I have an issue, the gasket between this and the trans broke, very brittle.

I'm pretty sure in the parts breakdown there was a note that this part has been deleted and not required.

if anyone has the MITS ASA program and can have a look, my pc crashed and all my good info and manuals are on that but not accessible

here's a nice little surprise, 2 checkballs missing from the internals of valvebody. no i did not lose them but the springs are there.

Thank for the write up ...every little bit of info helps

Thank for the write up ...every little bit of info helps

no worries, it's killing me, about to blow my own head gasket. Got no idea where I'm going to find metal balls from not sure of size either. 13/32 i think wish i had my ASA running

get them out of a blown gearbox should be a wreckers somewhere

get them out of a blown gearbox should be a wreckers somewhere Found me BALLS. they were deep in the orifice next door which just happened to have a hole the same diameter. Thank god for redundancy.....laptop. has all my files and manuals. 5 balls, 3 springs all accounted for.

MF540008 says 1/4 in the spec so I assume 1/4 inch diameter

manual valve is coming along niceley, falls out under it's own weight. I do suspect the valve body is worn and the clearnace may be enough for sediment to build. I have been naughty and not done the fluid soon enough but now that I've seen the alloy pastey film everywhere I can see how things can get sticky.

All the valves so far are scored. some were sticky some ok. there are some special brushes to buff these bores but 1500 grit is doing it although probably not exactly text book stuff. First time experience , will be interesting.

The gasket for the valve body is stated as obsolete/deleted/not required for service and it has been proven no problem with it gone. That's straight out of the MITS parts program.

all in and playing the waiting game for the sealant to set.

The majority of the valves were stuck/sticky and the pressure reg was seized too. looked clean enough but all valves were marked or had fine scores. The back plate of the valve body had unusual wear around the check balls in places. Wish i had the brush buddy set for polishing these bores but used 800 and 1500 wet & dry.

SPN M07016# -1/1

INFORMATION OF A/T VALVE BODY GASKET SUPPLY ABOLITION

Use condition:

GASKET, A/T VALVE BODY(PNC:28082) is stopped to supply for service.

It is unnecessary part for all subject vehicles.

If the vehicles in which it was installed, it is no problem that removed it.

Even if there is no gasket on the vehicles, it's already proved that trouble doesn't occur

Source:

MITSUBISHI ASA (NORTH AMERICA)
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48536

I think you said in an earlier post this gearbox is a recon job with 60,000 km on it?

Can you come up with any reason why it should show this much wear on the valve body, assuming it wasn't already this bad to start with and it wasn't even looked at properly by the people who reconditioned it?
(I did talk to a crowd that remanufactured auto boxes years ago, and I was told the valve bodies usually aren't touched when a box is rebuilt.)

I'd be taking a lot of pictures and letting Mitsubishi know that FluidDrive reman boxes are a bit shonky!

I think you said in an earlier post this gearbox is a recon job with 60,000 km on it?

Can you come up with any reason why it should show this much wear on the valve body, assuming it wasn't already this bad to start with and it wasn't even looked at properly by the people who reconditioned it?
(I did talk to a crowd that remanufactured auto boxes years ago, and I was told the valve bodies usually aren't touched when a box is rebuilt.)

I'd be taking a lot of pictures and letting Mitsubishi know that FluidDrive reman boxes are a bit shonky!

would be a waste of my time and effort now 5 years on but I should have bailed and just kept my box as it was just the 2-3 shift flare I wanted sorted which from what I've read is predominately the loss of sealing in the end cover. Even showed them the TSB from the US which outlined it and the bit to replace which could have been done in car. at the time from what I gathered they no longer worked on boxes and just did the outsource thing which effectively transfers the wty to the rebuilder.

Any issue with the box , it was box out, box in and that's how I ended up having 3 in succession put in. the 2nd box really a valve body would have fixed that and it was good apart from the same issue of a seizing manual valve.

I think what you say is probably the case, evidence does support it. makes you wonder who sets the standards and what accreditation is all about. Smoke and mirros for the uneducated.

I did have a lot of questions about the in & outs of what was reconditioned and Fluid drives response was built to OEM sepecs which could simple mean Mits was dictating the level of rebuild or a price per unit limit? Who knows but seeeing the wear and the sticky valves which was in fact a suggestion when this box was put in with issues.

i remember saying the symptoms indicated a pressure / valving issue. It's never been 100%

Hoping this box comes back to life it will be interesting to see if it behaves better now that I know all the valves are cleaned up and free.

I've had nothing but bad luck with auto trans people, But having seen the video on a full rebuild, apart from a couple of special tools for compressing the clutch packs it looks doable if you have some skill, having a clean environment to do it in may be an issue. the kitchen was a workshop last night.

I should also mention even the torque converter is not balanced correctly in this one.

Not sure what to report at the moment. It's in and kind of ok. first few shifts were weird but settled down. Will have to wait till tomorrow to see if this shifter jams, still feels like it may come back. But I am having intermittent delayed gear selection . After the battery disconnection it does it for first couple of times and seems to adjust itself. Spent 1.5 hrs doing mixed hwy and suburban and seemed pretty good. get home park it then go neutral - reverse and it must have been 2-3 secs before i get a gear. shut it down , stomp around it disgust for 5mins, then out of disbelief I start it again, select R, straight in, D straight in. Do it numerous times, then reverse out on a slight incline, D, good, R good etc etc, then just once D did not illuminate, no gear neutral, go n it illuminates, R good into gear, back to D illuminates and in gear.

So, looks like I may have 2 issues at once and a suspect inhibitor switch which is why I was hoping someone would see if they slide the shifter N-D slow and see if the N & D can illuminate together when in between ranges.

I'm going to get a switch anyway because I now suspect that's the delayed gear is not trans but electronic and there are several contacts made at once inside this so maybe something is intermittently going open cct.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48545
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48544

So the current situation is it's in and car is driveable but with noticeable differences. Cold it's still notchy gettin to D but nowhere as bad. I do believe that the VB is worn and or the manual valve and it's kinking within the bore going off center and catching the orifice.

delayed engagements at random but I have a new switch coming and it's done a few weird things like the D and P lights going out suggesting the switch is worn too which i did see evidence of inside it. i could also be off a little with the alignment of it but seems ok most of the time, regardless a new one is going in to eliminate that variable.

when cold i now get a little shift flare 1-2, and 2-3 is now flaring more than in the past but a few minutes of driving settles and then after that i would say normal shifts which are pretty good. some feel more crisp no doubt with freeing up of the valving but in the back of my mind is that gasket and there was evidence of coarse sanding on the plate around a couple of the areas where the check balls are so I suspect some leakage of the cct.

i think I will drive as is and then get a remanufactured VB rather than another box as i believe the rest apart from the noisy diff is ok plus i can do this in car. The VB does appear to have a huge influence on the operation and that's all that's been touched so a good VB and I'll get a gasket should get this back to normal.

all in and playing the waiting game for the sealant to set.

The majority of the valves were stuck/sticky and the pressure reg was seized too. looked clean enough but all valves were marked or had fine scores. The back plate of the valve body had unusual wear around the check balls in places. Wish i had the brush buddy set for polishing these bores but used 800 and 1500 wet & dry.

SPN M07016# -1/1

INFORMATION OF A/T VALVE BODY GASKET SUPPLY ABOLITION

Use condition:

GASKET, A/T VALVE BODY(PNC:28082) is stopped to supply for service.

It is unnecessary part for all subject vehicles.

If the vehicles in which it was installed, it is no problem that removed it.

Even if there is no gasket on the vehicles, it's already proved that trouble doesn't occur

Source:

MITSUBISHI ASA (NORTH AMERICA)
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48536

thought I'd try and get a gasket, no joy, quoted verbatim what I posted originally, deleted item , not required. Local dealer

Manual valve also unavailable with no date of stock- great stuff mitsubishi

Is this what you are after?

F4A51-F5A51-Valve-Body-Cover-Gasket

http://cobratransmission.com/F4A51-F5A51-Valve-Body-Cover-Gasket-82300AF

Also suits the AWD W5A51 'box.

They have a helpful "Live Chat" facility which may help you find some of the other more obscure bits & pieces.

They do postage to Australia.

Is this what you are after?

F4A51-F5A51-Valve-Body-Cover-Gasket

http://cobratransmission.com/F4A51-F5A51-Valve-Body-Cover-Gasket-82300AF

Also suits the AWD W5A51 'box.

They have a helpful "Live Chat" facility which may help you find some of the other more obscure bits & pieces.

They do postage to Australia.

Hi, thanks for looking. No that's the front cover gasket which there is not one fitted, normally liquid gasket.

http://cherylist.com/images/b11/MN168327.jpg

I've found a fully remanufactured VB, by VBX which is a division of SONNAX who produce a large range of improved parts and fixes for a wide range of valve bodies
http://s3.amazonaws.com/sonnax-dev/uploads/valve_body_layout/vbl_file/26/Mitsubishi_F4A_F5A_VBL.pdf

Sorry.

Yes, now I see what gasket you were after.

But you seem very knowledgeable about the internals of these 'boxes and you may be able to answer a question I have.

I have the W5A51 box as per all AWD models.

They do not have a spin on external fluid filter like the earlier F4A41 version.

I believe this is the correct type of filter:

http://cobratransmission.com/filter-mitsubishi-km-f4a41-km-f4a42-chrysler-1003012-1

I have been told by a local transmission repairer via telephone that I can't change the internal filter without major dismantling - which I believe involves removing the valve body.

From looking at what parts schematics I can find, I think he is correct, but it seems strange to me that a modern transmission would not have an easily accessible filter.

Can you point me in the right direction.

I have been told by a local transmission repairer via telephone that I can't change the internal filter without major dismantling - which I believe involves removing the valve body.

From looking at what parts schematics I can find, I think he is correct, but it seems strange to me that a modern transmission would not have an easily accessible filter.


That sums it up nicely. If no external filter, it is internal and only changed at overhaul.
The filter is big enough not to clog up during its nomal life.
Some auto transmissions also have magnets in the bottom of the sump to hold iron containing wear material.
Wear material from the clutch plates will be caught by the filter if big, or circulate along with the fluid, turning it a darker colour.

Thanks Max.

So, that being the case, and it seems not routine to remove the valve body side cover plate, I'm wondering
how/where broken pieces of wave spring are being found/extracted
before any major overhaul/rectification work has been carried out?

This is only an attempt on my part to check on this component, as my transmission seems to be performing
quite well but I am just curious and would like to make sure.

All sorted, I'm getting new VB, manual valve and gasket thrown in for free from Ohio, cincinnati

I'm not that knowlegeable, only know what I've read and taking the cover off is as far as i want to go. Dismantle for access to internal filter and the few posts I've read i go the impression people were finding broken parts of the wave spring when they did a drain.

But I have no personal experience , i have put a youtube link in this thread if you want to see a complete strip down and rebuild, 5 part series by a young bloke in the US on a F4A42 whic for intended purposes of learning would be simialar. i found it very interesting. watched it twice now

If you were seriously concerned about wave spring failure. I think the only thing you could do which is extreme would be to remove the box, dismantle it , strip it down where the wave spring is and see if it's the old multi layer type which fractures or if it has the new one piece type. a lot of time , effort and money but i think some have actually had this done. May save money in the long run but i personally would not do it unless it was a relatively cheap process but to remove and install a box labour alone I'd expect $500 and I'm guessing. The OEM spring itself is cheap from memory

Updated wave for mine is 2741A007 and it's a $13 item ex japan

https://e-a.d-cd.net/d1d944cs-960.jpg

Won't have to worry about the VB now. Gearbox just detonated Reverse.

I should have just parked it and I just decided not to drive it until I got the VB. but it been driving ok but very erratic with pressures. Randomly if sitting at the lights it would drop out of gear.

I just got home from a trip and noticed the engine labours,it was loading it up and the TC stall was only 1200 rpm. So I let it sit, just went out to do a stall test. selected D, and a little low but got to about 2000-2100RPM.
I went to do a stall test in reverse, felt like it was engaged, engine rpm had dipped but it must have been only partial, put the foot on the gas to load it up , went past the stall point then suddenly engaged reverse and a horrendous bang.

Now nothing but grinding noises, I'm literally a nervous wreck and in tears.

I think I still have drive. Not sure if this would be stripped splines or what but I'm pretty well f...ed now. Of all places, darwin is not the place to be.

Won't have to worry about the VB now. Gearbox just detonated Reverse.

I should have just parked it and I just decided not to drive it until I got the VB. but it been driving ok but very erratic with pressures. Randomly if sitting at the lights it would drop out of gear.

I just got home from a trip and noticed the engine labours,it was loading it up and the TC stall was only 1200 rpm. So I let it sit, just went out to do a stall test. selected D, and a little low but got to about 2000-2100RPM.
I went to do a stall test in reverse, felt like it was engaged, engine rpm had dipped but it must have been only partial, put the foot on the gas to load it up , went past the stall point then suddenly engaged reverse and a horrendous bang.

Now nothing but grinding noises, I'm literally a nervous wreck and in tears.

I think I still have drive. Not sure if this would be stripped splines or what but I'm pretty well f...ed now. Of all places, darwin is not the place to be.

Can you just get a good second hand box fitted?

Can you just get a good second hand box fitted?

I think that's where i may be but wreckers here are thieves. I was thinking it may be salvageable but be hard to trust . Don't know what freight would be from melbourne but seriously thinking I need to call Mal on this one.

I'm such a dickhead, I warned the Mrs if it dropped out of gear which occassionally it has and she put the boot in it would blow, well I just proved it. total brain fart, by the time it clicked I was in the danger zone and not in gear it was too late because at that instant it engaged, I think I had the foot on the gas still and brakes hard on otherwise might have got away with it with wheel spin

some updates. got the box out but what a job on jack stands and it's heavy. will be weeks before I get another box and no idea if I can handle getting it in. did an autopsy today and i was trying to guess what part had failed. Now i would have thought that the clutch packs would be the weakest link and i expected they would have spun and stripped, but not so. i started with the pack closest (underdrive clutch) to the pump housing, it was fine with a couple of metal flecks on one plate but apart from that no scoring or burn. the housing though had some wear but this is a recycled boxed (remanufactured to MMAL spec! via Fluid drive) with reused hard parts.

So the next stop was the rear cover which has the reverse , O/D clutch. definitely more metal in this area and shards of case hardened material and softer shiny material which turned out to be washers(was).
The O/d area was ok but as soon as i got to the reverse that was shredded and scores big time. reverse was the gear that engaged when it blew.

Also along the way copper/brass coloured chunks as well. So at this point it was looking like planetary failure needless to say when I arrived there it very evident as the fragments were getting bigger.

this box did have the updated wave spring, a small consolation.

pulling the planaetary set out, more mangled bits coming out. more of the same, teeth, washers and shims and it did not spin free. would turn a bit, jam then turn a bit jam etc.

So disassembly and wow, 1 tooth on one of the planets sheared and then munched up at least 3 teeth in the low/reverse annulus, still coppery chunks falling out and some of which embedded along with parts of washers.
The planetary reverse sun is scored, the output planetary carrier assembly failed. Gouged and scored but this is the interesting part. Although no doubt the sudden shock ended its life, it was already doomed from what i see and I highly suspect was already defective on assembly.

When this went the car was stationary, and then i crept it forward about a metre and back about 2 after crunch time.
so what have i found? In the O/P planetary there are 4 gears each run on large pin held in place by a rather tiny rollpin. Above each gear is a washer set comprising of a steel washer, brass shim and another steel stacked. these are the fragments i was finding earlier.

Of the 4, 1 was still intact with its washer set and rollpin, another the rollpin fell out of the assembly and the washer set also came with it as the pin dropped when I lifted it. potentially this one went at the time or very recently.

The other 2 however display quite clear evidence that they have been failed for quite a time, potentially at assembly or not long after. this box has always had a distinctive whine in 1 & 2 going quiet at about 50 and in 3rd. i always thought diff but now I'm thinking it was the planetary assembly all along.

Of the last 2, both pins had dropped and were making contact with the O/d planetary slowly grinding the pins away. each of these pins has a slot like for a large screwdriver head to align the pins to allow fitment of the roll pins. One you could just make out the slot,this one had one single steel washer hanging on, the other 2 gone and muched up. the other large pin completely ground away and chamfered and not a single washer of the three set present.

Now before i terminated this and dove into the VB with the jammed manual valve, I'd drained this and saw the same shiny bits of the washers, coppery bits and hard casing material so the problem was already there. i've since tried to drain some fluid out of the torque converter and it appears that's where most of the copper washer has gone and most likely the other fragments too.

Admittedly there was more hard casing this drain with the destroyed teeth but personally sometime in the near future that planetary would have let go anyway as 2 of the pins were gone maybe the 3rd but does not matter now.

i doubt there's a way to clean out and salvage a torque converter with metal contamination.

So the way i see it at best doing a dodgey, I'd need a VB, T/C, complete planetary , rebuild the reverse/ O/D packs and a seal kit. that's a fair chunk of $ without paying anyone and probably not a smart way to go.

Another thing which i found intriguing. rust and pit marks on components? makes me wonder where this box was sourced from in the first place or their quality control ethics at Fluid drive.

will try and get some photos up so you can get a grip because it's hard to explain in words the detail i 'm trying to convey.

This is a youtube that touches briefly on planetary failur, the second assembly mentioned when he talks about pins droppin out, that's waht has happened to mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIWT3TS-u7I

EDIT:
just some more notes. If anyone was keen and skilled enough, the wave spring could be replaced in car via the rear cover but the valve body needs to come out to as there is an internal seal that butts up against the snd brake piston inserted from the VB side

ironically, if i wanted to do an emergency touch up to keep running , I could have left the box in the car and replaced just the damaged bitsvia the rear cover until just to keep it going until i could have afforded another rebuild or had a good used box to go, but This is a first time adventure inside an auto trans for me.

Brilliant description of the fail points in this gearbox. Sounds like it was reconditioned badly - or only minimally to get it through the warranty period + 10 Km - and was doomed from early on.

Road freight of one from the Eastern States could be expensive, but what choice do you have?
I was in Darwin a few years ago and noticed "used" cars (read - wrecks ready for the scrap yard) were very pricey up there.

Brilliant description of the fail points in this gearbox. Sounds like it was reconditioned badly - or only minimally to get it through the warranty period + 10 Km - and was doomed from early on.

Road freight of one from the Eastern States could be expensive, but what choice do you have?
I was in Darwin a few years ago and noticed "used" cars (read - wrecks ready for the scrap yard) were very pricey up there.

I'm just analysing a few photos and I hang on tight, i was mad then, just as mad now and the images speak for themselves.

Lucked out with mal, surprisingly freight $140-170 that's eastern from BNE _Syd_MELB. Wish I had the F5A, more of them around and prices seem more respectable to K's travelled. Some of these places wanted close to $800 and boxes with up to 200-220 000 K.

About 2 weeks away before the box arrives, paid for it last monday only got shipped today with ETA of 9-10 days. been told 124k on it it so if it's been serviced and not been towing should be ok.

how do you tell the MRS when It arrives i'm going to pull it apart first? Plan is remove the bell housing, replace internal filter, that means I'll need new o-rings to reseal ports and the pump, probably should do the torque converter seal, then at the rear cover I have to go in deep to reach the wavy which I guess take a punt or be sure. that's more o-rings and seal rings. I guess I'll get some idea what condition it's in too

Read varied opinions but i wish someone could nail this for sure, TL still had the multi layer wave, TW got the update but not sure if this is myth or fact. i just happen to have a spare updated wave spring at the moment, LOL.

Read varied opinions but i wish someone could nail this for sure, TL still had the multi layer wave, TW got the update but not sure if this is myth or fact. i just happen to have a spare updated wave spring at the moment, LOL.

Just opinions. Unless a Mitsu insider knows when the spring got changed, and come up with a serial number for the change, I'd play the "nobody knows" card.

My opinion is that the spring got changed as a running change and the change doesn't coincide with the model change.
So there may be TLs with the good spring, or there may be TWs with the bad spring.

Just opinions. Unless a Mitsu insider knows when the spring got changed, and come up with a serial number for the change, I'd play the "nobody knows" card.

My opinion is that the spring got changed as a running change and the change doesn't coincide with the model change.
So there may be TLs with the good spring, or there may be TWs with the bad spring.

actually I may have some clue. The exported MMAL F38A SIGMA March 3 2005 on was fitted with the update 2741A007, so I would expect the local product would also be updated close to this date.

that would mean max you could be correct. So my original box being June production most likely had it, slim chance though the used box is from a later TW. Exported Diamantes never got it last production was july 2004.

I'm just in the process of doing a google album which should be far easier than trying to upload here.

Image collection which I'll be buildng on over time. Will get the VB out again and get a shot of the backing plate which has incredible wear around one of the check balls.

https://goo.gl/photos/q9f5Ybg54y7tRaHM8

Trans arrived today. how's this. Picked up mid morning last tues 23/6/15 from QLD, SYD on 24th, and from what i can tell Adelaide 26th, darwin 29th at lunch time. God bless those truckies they must work bloody long hours to manage that.

I can't even get that service from Auspost standard service.

Anyway, not much to report other than the fluid was pretty dirty what did come out, cracked the end cover for a peep and looks pretty good, clutches and steels look clean, no burn, no marks or scores. Does have the old wavy though which appears to be intact but i quit on it rather than rush it. Will swap it out with the update. The axle and torque converter seals are much better than I expected still soft and no cracks. Axle seals better than my rebuilt box which were starting to perish on the outer lip. best news so far is the planetary is ok and no metal or sparkly bits of anything showing in the residual fluid in the bottom of the box or the old fluid out of the TC .

Shift selector feels perfectly normal too in all positions, not a hint of roughness like mine. Reasonably happy so far, it's a lottery ticket but if it functions ok I won't be surprised if it lasts longer than the remanufactured rubbish I just pulled out.

Fingers crossed this works out.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X2WaKH0TMChofopkjnCHZ6eNExZgf5W5JUWweUYZUBE=w801-h551-no

Though obviously I'd prefer you hadn't had all these transmission issues, it's been a helluva learning curve from the peanut gallery. Never having had the intestinal fortitude to dismantle a self-shifter before I have to say that the blow-by-blow descriptions and the images have been marvelous. Hope the new box works out and thanks for keeping everybody in the loop. Priceless information!

yeah, I'm a drama queen but I like sharing bad experiences and there is something to learn. just learnt something else, don't count the chickens before they've hatched. Just convinced the Mrs that the best place for me to work on this is inside the house. LOL.

Just continued with the wavy inspection, and yep, you all know what I'm about to say, stuffed, totally in 6 pieces not even one complete circle. I did not see any chunks in the bottom where the filter is but will have a closer look. Praying that the pump is intact but the piston is damaged, may get away with it, may not..

Anyone gone into their box like this and run it with a marked piston assembly?
I'm now also in the predficament someone recently asked the question, what does a complete one look like, have I got all the pieces?

Now it's probably unfair to crap on the person that sold me this. pretty sure virtually no one out there is going to strip a box apart to check this prior to selling it.

Or is it in the filter or is the pump stuffed? Not sure if there's a way to check the pump is not blown apart with this assembled ?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YTf2JiAwu44M_Xhe2eRDuqxJxmi3pDpjjOA_72Ohbjo=w868-h428-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pfg5ey5EhzF5NJDTx-d0IEdeb2_xg5aoQ0Rywl_uwwA=w799-h599-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3b2aaUkdQ0Fmu_VMsrFpCjc6c1s22xsL1s_ZaoXAYzY=w799-h599-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wHnpJuED3VwXhj3jfZ_L6G0E5i2bqIaqK0B3PIp9alI=w799-h599-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eMno5d4GqOukQsAFtisyNG-0mqBMViT2WdL1i1iS7sc=w799-h599-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xJpAOhx0og0_5WviqPjoGAOkCIoTFVETGllGtXdhmIg=w799-h599-no


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QLaxRm-hftleEYlx3ZPZBJUSpigOlhBlgqrAy_uJZFs=w625-h599-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6GEZSbx08NeYW3oLhvpnNTXze3OARvzTyXJNpjicJuw=w476-h599-no

not sure if the link is working for the replacement box photos

https://goo.gl/photos/VBKrqf7W7iCzxn5S6

some info. If the end cover is removed and you to remove the 2nd brake piston (#27438 in above image) without removing the valve body, then the 2nd brake piston seal (item #27435) first then that seal gets torn as it protrudes into the case and butts up against the piston. It's inserted from the underneath the valve body.

OMFG, how do you get all the metal out of the cooler lines? man, the clumps of metal in there.

OMFG, how do you get all the metal out of the cooler lines? man, the clumps of metal in there.

Fire?

Soak them, then compressed air? I've never pulled apart an auto box before, so I'm just flapping my gums.

(Great thread btw)

If possible is probably worth running an in line filter on the cooler return line to catch those unwanted bits of metal before they recycle themselves through the transmission.
(Great effort on this-keep up the good work)

Regards

If possible is probably worth running an in line filter on the cooler return line to catch those unwanted bits of metal before they recycle themselves through the transmission.
(Great effort on this-keep up the good work)

Regards

Cheers, but unfortunately supercheap appear not to have anything and REPCO struggled to understand WTF I was on about but they have fuel filters, yippeeeeeee.

Any suggestions where to find?

that was what i wanted to do but stuck between a broken car and a hard place.

About to cough up $120 for a davies external and just delete the radiator one.

Anyone fitted the 677 Hdydra cool system ?

Try these guys
http://automatictransmission.com.au/

Cheers

Cheers, but unfortunately supercheap appear not to have anything and REPCO struggled to understand WTF I was on about but they have fuel filters, yippeeeeeee.

Any suggestions where to find?

that was what i wanted to do but suck between a broken car and a hard place.

About to cough up $120 for a davies external and just delete the radiator one.

Anyone fitted the 677 Hdydra cool system ?

Is this what you are after?:

http://www.magnefine.com/

If so, REPCO do sell them.....$42 retail .....Sydney price.

Most Aussie retailers I can find want about that for them.

I purchased one for my other car a few years ago cheaper through Amazon.com, but i am assuming you want one yesterday.

Is this what you are after?:

http://www.magnefine.com/

If so, REPCO do sell them.....$42 retail .....Sydney price.

Most Aussie retailers I can find want about that for them.

I purchased one for my other car a few years ago cheaper through Amazon.com, but i am assuming you want one yesterday.

you're kidding. The person on the phone had no idea.

Oh well bought a $120 cooler. It's hard to gett good help. Should have asked sooner but the clock's running out. Might get it any way then put the external cooler inline with the old system.

cheers though.

I called REPCO Shellharbour the other day.

I needed to explain to the lady who answered the 'phone what it was all about. :tired:

I called REPCO Shellharbour the other day.

I needed to explain to the lady who answered the 'phone what it was all about. :tired:

Maybe they're related, it was a lady too. there are some that have better knowledge than blokes but got the wrong person. Anyway at least I can be 100% sure no metal in entering the box this way.

Just finished testing it for the last 2 hrs.

good news.

It works
No leaks
No more bloody loud whining in 1 & 2
Super smooth shifts up and down
no more labouring up a hill in 4 with lock up TC at 65kph, releases the TC then a nice sharp smooth kick back to 3.

The bad news.

damn 2-3 shift flare. ok driving normal but give it the full monty and flares about 500-1000rpm at WOT

Will wait and see how it goes 1st thing in the morning cold.

I know the very original box use to like giving a good dose of flare on the very first 2-3 for the day

This one though at WOT it's the same, dose not improve no matter how many 2-3 shifts in a row I do.

I know this is comparing apples to oranges, but my AWD's five speed needs a dedicated hours with of "first, second, third. Stop. First, second third. Stop" driving just to clear its second to third gear flare. No amount of gently accelerating to sixty or trickery with PNDR/RDNP with the selector does it.


Having said that, this issue disappeared after I put the 6G75 in.

I know this is comparing apples to oranges, but my AWD's five speed needs a dedicated hours with of "first, second, third. Stop. First, second third. Stop" driving just to clear its second to third gear flare. No amount of gently accelerating to sixty or trickery with PNDR/RDNP with the selector does it.


Having said that, this issue disappeared after I put the 6G75 in.

interesting. sounds as if software upgrade helped to remove it. Am I correct thinking with the 6g75 the ecu which is also the tcu would have been swapped over from the 380?

6g74 ecu is still used .....most people get the ralliart tune flashed into them

Well, there is a happy ending. Driving home this afternoon gave it a bit of stick in 2nd and noticed the shift flare had reduced. So next opportunity i got to gun it from standstill i went tippy. Held second to about 100 then shifted, no slip. good indication box is fine and it was shift adaptation issue. I've noticed whenever the battery was removed you'd have to do the relearn and 3-4 always flared about 4-5 times before it corrected each time you'd see a reduction in flare. for whatever reason last night 2-3 did not seem to adjust much . Anyway after dinner I went for a 150k run down the stuart hwy, hitthe 130 kph area and then i just kept slowing down and gave it the kick down to 2nd at 80 and then varied the upshift at different speeds and low and behold the computer started adjusting. 140 seems to be the max for 2nd and now it no longer slips.

now have what i consider about as perfect a box you can expect with these. It's so much smoother kicking back and in the correct gear, up hills first hint of 4th labouring and it just glides back to 3rd, no thud.

Quite surprised given the fluid that came out was blacker than sump oil. Pretty lucky, external cooler to boot now.

For sealing the case and covers this stuff is awesome. It's the same spec as specified in the manual. Got it from Toyota for $46, has a 15min window when applied to assemble. it's actually three bond product as far as I know, 1281

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDM1MQ==/$T2eC16FHJIYE9qUcNSt1BQK1+MPMs!~~60_12.JPG

6g74 ecu is still used .....most people get the ralliart tune flashed into them

Correct.


interesting. sounds as if software upgrade helped to remove it. Am I correct thinking with the 6g75 the ecu which is also the tcu would have been swapped over from the 380?

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well.

I only put the 6G75 engine in, no ECU tune/swap/hack as yet. No changes to the transmission when I swapped the engine either - no cooler upgrades, cooler line placement etc. I did have to add a fair amount of fresh (genuine) fluid to the transmission after the swap, and, I did dedicate a day to cleaning the engine bay/electrical connections before dropping the new engine in.

The fact I didn't touch the transmission or ECU to make the 2nd-3rd flare go away has me thinking I had a dirty connection. Some other quirks also disappeared with the engine swap also, the engine used to randomly cutout for a split second, and occasionally seem to run on five cylinders after you closed the throttle at high RPM. Post engine swap all of these issues are gone.