Hay all
some timing belt questions for you
took my front timing belt cover off just then wanted to check to see if the mechanic actually changed it, paranoid i know what if found was this
the section of the belt that is in the middle is loose by this i mean looking at the car side on looking at the front cam pully the outer side is tight is this normal its loose enough that its not sitting in the teeth
can i start the car whilst the cover is off

Can you put up a photo?

Can you put up a photo?

Wish i could Rob don't know how to the car runs fine just thought it was odd i started it up then stoped it and it was tight then the next time the opposite side was loose i assumed the belt would be tight at all times

go to www.tinypics.com

upload a photo then paste the forum data into the body of your post.

be careful around the timing belt.....i'll have a stab and say your tensioner needed replacing and wasn't done.

go to www.tinypics.com

upload a photo then paste the forum data into the body of your post.

be careful around the timing belt.....i'll have a stab and say your tensioner needed replacing and wasn't done.

Cheers Zilo
does that mean the belt should be tight at all times running or not yes i was very careful

go to www.tinypics.com

upload a photo then paste the forum data into the body of your post.

be careful around the timing belt.....i'll have a stab and say your tensioner needed replacing and wasn't done.

Cheers Zilo
does that mean the belt should be tight at all times running or not yes i was very careful

Cheers Zilo
does that mean the belt should be tight at all times running or not yes i was very careful


when running...yep...that's what the tensioner is for.

when running...yep...that's what the tensioner is for.

What about when its not running does the tensioner hold tension on the belt I imagine it is like you said sounds like the tensioner is failing I'll do some reading about how they work

What about when its not running does the tensioner hold tension on the belt I imagine it is like you said sounds like the tensioner is failing I'll do some reading about how they work

It's normal for a belt to be tight when the engine is running but slack when the engine is off.

A failed tensioner will rattle badly when you first start a cold engine.

It's normal for a belt to be tight when the engine is running but slack when the engine is off.

A failed tensioner will rattle badly when you first start a cold engine.

Thanks for that I had a little of the cold start rattle when I got the car but since 3 oil changes including a flush each time it has not done it since I should have got the water pump done when the belt was done the mechanic said the tensioner was ok but done it anyway live and learn

It's normal for a belt to be tight when the engine is running but slack when the engine is off.

A failed tensioner will rattle badly when you first start a cold engine.

I wouldn't say slack is normal, a bit looser, but not much, I just checked on a 380 on the hoist a few minutes ago.

It depends on where the engine stops, a single car on a hoist will tell you nothing at all

In some cases the slack part will be at the front part or the rear part of the belt, other times between the cams, as the engine sits stationary the cam shafts will try and rotate if valves are not on rock, ie are halfway up or down a lobe (little complicated to explain on a forum). This will cause that cam to turn slightly and over time the tensioner will pull back. As soon as you crank the motor the slack is taken up and if the tensioner is working it will take up the slack on the back side of the belt immediately.

If there is a little slack on the water pump after sitting a while that is fine as long as this is taken up straight away

Great post there Mal.

I've only ever done 2 belts on the V6, both times there was some slack at the water pump and it was easy to turn the water pump by hand once the covers were off.

It depends on where the engine stops, a single car on a hoist will tell you nothing at all

In some cases the slack part will be at the front part or the rear part of the belt, other times between the cams, as the engine sits stationary the cam shafts will try and rotate if valves are not on rock, ie are halfway up or down a lobe (little complicated to explain on a forum). This will cause that cam to turn slightly and over time the tensioner will pull back. As soon as you crank the motor the slack is taken up and if the tensioner is working it will take up the slack on the back side of the belt immediately.

If there is a little slack on the water pump after sitting a while that is fine as long as this is taken up straight away

Thanks for the details Mal I appreciate it puts my mind at ease

Well in your first post you said it was so loose that the belt wasn't sitting in the teeth.

Doesn't sound all good to me.

You can always get another secondhand motor from madmagna/mitsifix if it's not right I suppose.....:)

Good luck.
.

Little update on my belief that my timing belt was not right on Saturday the GTL timing belt slipped 2 or 3 teeth
engine has been stripped and inspected with no damage found thank goodness the belt was still tight when we opened her up all very strange and before anyone asks the tensioner was purchased by me from MM the new one also from MM
My mechanic provided me with a loan car the tow was free thanks to NRMA
I took the day off and was allowed to watch everything that was done and inspected everything its good to have a good mechanic
I suggested that while everything was off we do the water pump and he said no problems and that he would do it for free including the parts as part of good will (not many people left like this anymore)
so all in all a lucky great result
I ended up slipping him a $100 and a box of beer the bloke dropped everything Monday morning and committed to my car all day till around 7pm
My mechanics opinion is that a couple of mm slack in a timing belt is acceptable anymore at any stage is not

Read post #2 again.

hey i have a 2005 380 vrx with the dreaded morning rattle, at first i thought lash adjusters but then reading through the forum looks like its a timing belt issue,, pre tensioner?? to try keep costs down i will strip the belt off and rebuild , looking at some you tube videos it doesnt look that difficult? what i would like to know is does anyone know the measurements of the tools needed to do the job,
im sure i could fabricate something if i knew what size to make them? the MD998716 crank rotating tool looks reasonably easy to make? also timing belt tensioner doesnt look that hard either , any pointers regarding a rebuild to get rid of noise would be much appreciated , thanks in advanve

hey i have a 2005 380 vrx with the dreaded morning rattle, at first i thought lash adjusters but then reading through the forum looks like its a timing belt issue,, pre tensioner?? to try keep costs down i will strip the belt off and rebuild , looking at some you tube videos it doesnt look that difficult? what i would like to know is does anyone know the measurements of the tools needed to do the job,
im sure i could fabricate something if i knew what size to make them? the MD998716 crank rotating tool looks reasonably easy to make? also timing belt tensioner doesnt look that hard either , any pointers regarding a rebuild to get rid of noise would be much appreciated , thanks in advanve

Read the manual for the procedure. It's very detailed and needs to be followed to the letter.
The only tool I've had to buy is the little 1/4" drive 2 pronged gadget to turn the eccentric idler pulley when adjusting the belt tension.

It's not hard, but you will need to get the cranskshaft pulley off to get the hidden timing cover bolt off.

In an emergency I have used an allen key jammed in the pulley slot and then jammed in compression against the chassis rail.

After that it's an absolute piece of cake if you are reasonable familiar and cover your backside double checking everything.

The tensioner can be changed easily if you are careful not to let everything unravel...LOL

hi all, excuse my ignorance but when i see mentions about the dreaded morning rattle, which my 2006 vrx has! it seems the majority of people say it is a problem with the pre tensioner?
what are we talking about ? is it the hydraulic tensioner on the timing belt? or the tensioner on the power steering belt or alternator belt? i have noticed that there is a lot of sideways movement
on the tensioner for the power steering belt? how do i approach fixing this problem? ie is it going to be a timing belt issue and do i need to replace everthing in order to fix this bloody noise! thanks in adavance, Alan

Hay Allan
After my little experience Get it fixed
Have you had your timing belt done is it due or overdue if so get it done its not worth neglecting
How many klms on the car
The referance is to the timing belt tensioner a self contained unit so changing oils won't help
Having said that it may not be your problem as you mentioned your PS belt has movment so it could be a noisy pulley
There is alot of info here regarding ways to dignose a tensioner soft state (i think that is what it is referred to)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your timing belt has never been done often this is the case as it is a expensive service
Dont skimp get the whole lot done and hope you don't get a dogey tensioner like I did
Depending on klms consider the waterpump as well
The tensioners on the serpentine belt and PS belt are mechanical they use a lock nut and a adjusting bolt
I think there is a 380 workshop manual here somewhere I just bought mine from ebay for 10 bucks either way well worth having
Inspection adjustment and replacement of the serpentine and PS belts and pulleys is easy if that is the issue definitely a DIY if you're handy with the tools
The timing belt however for me is more than I could handle ATM having watched a professional do it
One day if I have a practice car maybe
Now alot of people claim to have had or have the morning rattle BUT I have yet to find anyone who has had their belt jump teeth like mine did
mine was caused by a new tensioner which over 6 or 8 weeks failed I was just lucky and a honest mechanic
Get the manual sort out the external belt issues then reassess
Good luck mate

Thanks for the info, my research leads me to believe that the previous owner noticed the noise after he had the new cam belt fitted,
And just lived with the noise ! Im guessing that the pre tensioner was not torqued correctly, hence the start up noise ? I have looked on e bay ect ect
To purchase the 2 pronged adjusting tool , they all seem to be from the USA, i cant find anything in australia ? I will very shortly
Fit a new kit just to be sure , seems straightforward if instructions are followed correctly ??.ps with a drill a welder and a good file im surei could make that 2 prong tool
If i had the dimensions of it ?? Anyway ill let you know the outcome when i have completed the job ,
Ps my mileage is 162000 and the engine runs really sweet and strong, im going to replace everthing including the power steering belt and idler bearings
im pretty sure fingers crossed its the pretensioner ? Start car on morning rattle rattle, turn engine off wait 2 or 3 seconds restart and noise gone, then good for rest of the day !!!,

the 2 pronged adjusting tool?

I ordered one from the US but couldn't wait, I used two 3 mm drill bits reversed with a screwdriver for leverage to set the belt tension. Worked ok, 37,000 km later everything is still ok.
Bit fiddly though, levering with one hand, check the pin for clearance with the other, adjust, then grab the torque wrench to do up the bolt, while watching the eccentric idler doesn't move when I nip the bolt up.

The tool arrived in time for me to do the other Magna though, a bit easier with that.

thanks mad max , im going to order that tool today Md 98767, and in the meantime make sure im organised with all other parts, so i get it done right first time! i have the feeling that the back street mechanic was maybe too
heavy handed with the pre tensioner adjustment ??? i will post the outcome on here when i have done the job, watch this space ha ha !!!

It's important to have belt slack in the right place, ie at the rear cam to crank and nowhere else when doing the tension adjustment, then rotate the engine 2 full turns by hand and checking the lock pin in the hydraulic tensioner still moves freely before you pull it out permanently. If not, leave the pin in and set the tension up again. Can take a couple of goes to get it right. The first time you do it anyway.

I miss the Second gen and Lancer systems, just a big spring to set the initial tension. Loosen the right bolt, spring takes up the slack, tighten the bolt, rotate engine 2 turns, loosen bolt, spring does its thing, tighten bolt, all done. No hydraulic tensioner to go wrong.

Anyhow, when you do it, follow the manual procedure and it should go ok.
I imagine a few mechanics don't look at the manual and are confident enough to do it their way because they have done belts on other cars/models/makes. And they are in a hurry because time is money and don't double or triple check things. Or their torque wrench is out of reach so they tighten things by feel, or somesuch.

I'm due to do 2 Magna belts and 1 Lancer belt in about 2 to 3 years' time, gotta watch that overconfidence factor when I do!

Change your tensioner, is not that hard. You can use the drill bits and screw driver if needed, as long as the lock pin is free to move in and out when done up the tension is correct

Only use NTN tensioners, dont use the Gates, Dayco etc etc as they have very very high failure rates on these cars, may be fine on other makes but not on the 6G7 series motors.

If your belt is not due yet, then you dont need to remove the belt, put it all on TDC and if you have enough finesse you can change the tensioner, lock the new one, back off the adjuster and re adjust without touching the belt itself. We do this all the time and also stock the NTN tensioners.

Only time I have seen a belt jump is when the belt was too lose in the first place ie not installed correctly.

I'm in the middle of replacing my timing belt, found a lot of slack especially above the water pump, it's that slack you can actually lift the belt off and move it to the next tooth? Not good!!, haven't got to the tensioner yet , I can't get the crank pulley off so I can remove the bottom cover to see !