G'day All
Its been quite a while since I last posted (for a number or reasons, too busy doing other stuff being the main one) though I have a look as a quest every now and then.
Anyway about 15months ago I bought another Awd (3rd). Its a TW that had tinted glass, after market sunroof, 12 months reg etc one owner and 113000klm on it. Paid $5k for it.
I sold my first TL that hasn't really given any problems , with 270,000 klm on it, to my son. He recently had to replace the front rotors and pads and a few other wear items. Its still running fine
The "new" car appeared to be in good condition apart from a few small dings and scrapes on the paintwork. Its now got 133000klm on it. When I first got it sometimes the tiptronic wouldnt work properly when I tried to change down manually. the lighst on the dash would flick down and then go back to "D" other times it work fine. When changing up it would change up but the lighhts would go from the lower gear up to "D" and then back to the gear it had changed to. With use this problem seemed to be improving. I had the transmission "serviced" late last year with no issues even though a service is basically a fluid change and road test. The bloke that doesn my service is very good and I dont fault him in anyway.
So about 2 weeks ago I was rolling up to some traffic lights and the transmission gave a sudden clunk/thump just as the car stopped. When I moved off it gave another hard clunk. At first I wasn't sure if it was the car or the road as the road surface was rough. The car then ran fine for the next week than one night it started making a noise that sounded like I had picked up a stick underneath. Stopped, had a look and there was nothing. Drove off and the noise was gone. Drove the 10klm to work the next day with no problems or noises. Driving home that afternoon it did the clunk thump thing again (about 21 k from home) and then the noise started in 1,2 and 3rd. It then got progressively louder. I got it home and haven't driven it since except to move it yesterday morning to make it easier for the tilt bed to pick it up to go to the transmission shop. I managed to move it a couple of metres and then it locked up.
Verdict is that something has broken inside and it could cost over $4k to repair it.
So basically more than what the car is worth. Dont know if the ecu/transmission unit has caused this either. I dont even know if a fault in the control unit could make the trans try and do something it shouldn't, resulting in the breakdown.
At this point I dont know what I'm going to do. Unfortunatley due to my now, ex, wife almost bankrupting me a few years ago, money is not as flush as it used to be.
I've looked a a few falcon and commodore's around the $6-&k range but all have more than 130000 klm on them and they all look like bits are starting to fall off them. My reasoning for look at rear wheel drive is that if the transmission goes it wil be cheaper to remove it and replace. I could pull one of them out myself in a couple of hours in the driveway. I dont have the space or the gear to pull the trans out of the magna.
I'm tossing up whether I should get this trans rebuilt as the rest of the car is great.
The worry is if I spend $4k ( or possibly more) to fix it will it last another 100000k or cark it again in a year. Or do I buy another std 2wd magna and hope that it lasts a few more years. I'm getting older so having the awd is not that important to me anymore.

So over to the group for your imput.
thanks
peter

Couldn't you buy something like this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-TRANSMISSION-GEARBOX-AUTO-AWD-ALL-WHEEL-DRIVE-07-03-09-05-/281314599522?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item417fa82262

for $1100 plus fitting so costing less than $2000 overall.

Somewhat risky I know, but if you don't have $4000 sometimes you just have to compromise.

Where in NSW are you?

If you happen to be in the west of Sydney, I know 2 reputable, fair dealing transmission specialists
that should be able to give you a reasonably good diagnosis of your problem.

(Unfortunately, I don't live in Sydney anymore, so the search is on for a local replacement that I can trust 100%,
without much luck so far)

Leadfoot
Ok. On the strength of this I've spoken to the auto trans place that looked at my car again and got some clarification. The estimate of $4k was to remove, repair and replace. If I buy a used box the cost to install is $700-$800. so you are correct when you say around $2K. Thanks for the info. I'll probably go that was as if I dont fix it the car's basically worth nothing.

peter

Bad luck with the trans and good luck with the replacement. It is very rare for the TW AWD auto to stuff up. I drove KW GTVi AWD hard and always shifted manually for 140K KMS without any issues.

do these boxes suffer from the wave spring failure like on the Legnum/Galant?

Anyways, your logic for a rwd having a cheaper box to replace is false, they auto trans units themselves are often quite similar in price for refurbed units, labour is usually a margin smaller but you'd only be saving yourself $2-300 there.
a lot of the falcons and commodores (more so the commo) are falling apart.
I personally wouldnt touch a falcon before the FG, and i wouldn't give a commodore to my worst enemy...
If you have the availabilty of a second hand box to be fitted for reasonably cheap, thats the way to go.
I dont know how viable it is to you, but it might even be worthwhile keeping the old failed box and rebuilding it later as a spare?
But, having said that, you may spend a decent chunk of money fixing up a spare that will never be needed...

The waves spring issue was resolved in the L/W series.

It might be more accurate to be a bit clearer about this.

An AWD owner of long membership in this forum says:


I believe they introduced the improved spring type either with the TW or very late in the TL run.
I don't think there would be many TL's with the new spring.

do these boxes suffer from the wave spring failure like on the Legnum/Galant?

Anyways, your logic for a rwd having a cheaper box to replace is false, they auto trans units themselves are often quite similar in price for refurbed units, labour is usually a margin smaller but you'd only be saving yourself $2-300 there.
a lot of the falcons and commodores (more so the commo) are falling apart.
I personally wouldnt touch a falcon before the FG, and i wouldn't give a commodore to my worst enemy...
If you have the availabilty of a second hand box to be fitted for reasonably cheap, thats the way to go.
I dont know how viable it is to you, but it might even be worthwhile keeping the old failed box and rebuilding it later as a spare?
But, having said that, you may spend a decent chunk of money fixing up a spare that will never be needed...

I couldn't agree more with this post, there are a lot of people that say RWD is a lot cheaper to replace or work on than an AWD but only by very small margins. Over FWD however they don't have any benefits at all really apart from it being RWD and cool yo'.

In terms of magna's I would be happy to pull out an engine/gearbox and replace it all in the one day. It's pretty damn easy DIY job. Anyone in NSW able to help the op out?

@ free00z: Re the wavespring washer: it's the last of TLs that got the revised wave spring washer (read late 2004), the earlier & mid cycle TLs don't. All of the TWs have it.
If it is the wave spring washer that's causing the issue, it usually means that pieces have pierced through the internal filter & gone through the transmission oil pump (which will cause it to eventually seize up - according to the transmission specialist who replaced my wavespring washer a couple of years ago).

Are you sure it isn't the metal dust boot that may have come loose (located at the front of the tailshaft just behind transfer case) it can be pressed on and gently tapped into place with a rubber mallet. Mine came loose after I swapped engines and it made an annoying loose & rattly interminent sound.

@ free00z: Re the wavespring washer: it's the last of TLs that got the revised wave spring washer (read late 2004), the earlier & mid cycle TLs don't. All of the TWs have it.
Funnily enough my old April 2004 TL is still going with no trans problems, My son has it now in Qld and it has in excess of 270,00klm on it.

If it is the wave spring washer that's causing the issue, it usually means that pieces have pierced through the internal filter & gone through the transmission oil pump (which will cause it to eventually seize up - according to the transmission specialist who replaced my wavespring washer a couple of years ago). The blokes that looked at it have made an educated guess and think that one of the needle roller bearings may have failed.


Are you sure it isn't the metal dust boot that may have come loose (located at the front of the tailshaft just behind transfer case) it can be pressed on and gently tapped into place with a rubber mallet. Mine came loose after I swapped engines and it made an annoying loose & rattly interminent sound. Ooh I wish. Unfortunately my luck doesnt run like that. The trans keeps locking up, in 1st or reverse so its pretty serious.
Car is booked in to have the trans changed over next tues. Hopefully the replacement will be ok.

peter

I couldn't agree more with this post, there are a lot of people that say RWD is a lot cheaper to replace or work on than an AWD but only by very small margins. Over FWD however they don't have any benefits at all really apart from it being RWD and cool yo'. Fair point, I've also been doing a bit of research on Fords and Commos and have come to a similar conclusion. The ones I've looked at all seem to be falling apart inside.


In terms of magna's I would be happy to pull out an engine/gearbox and replace it all in the one day. It's pretty damn easy DIY job. Anyone in NSW able to help the op out? Thanks for that kind thought. In my youth or even 20 years ago I would be doing exactly that but these days I dont have an area to do that sort of work anymore and I'm developing arthritus in my hands which makes it even harder for me.
Word of advice to all you young blokes- Look after your hands - I'm a fitter by trade and I didn't look after my hands as well as I should have when I was young and thought I was invincible. It's catching up with me now.
When I first got my license back in 1975 my first car was a heap of rubbish Mini Cooper S (the original ones - which I loved) After a while I was able to pull the motor/gearbox out in 15 minutes flat. Id start on friday night after I got home from work, do whatever had to be done, and have the motor back in and running by 10 am sat morning. They were a lot less complicated in those days though.

regards
peter

It sounds like a planetary gear has broken...not common but it does happen

It sounds like a planetary gear has broken...not common but it does happen
Someone else I was speaking to mentioned that as a possibilty as well.
peter

if its that... buy a second hand box...it happened to me i managed to get a good second hand one for $450

Here we go again, "wave spring wave spring wave spring wave spring wave spring"

Seems to be the only thing people know

You say the trans also kept on locking up, this is generally caused by the Planetary set failing, this also, surprise surprise, happens in Legnums, Galants, Magna's and pretty much any auto in any FWD Mits of that era, there is a large nut holding it all together, it comes loose and then the set hits the trans case and it is all over.

Either way, your best bet is to get a replacement used unit, is much cheaper than a rebuild. If you do get a rebuild, then yes get the revised spring, get the planetary set welded etc and you will have a nice strong transmission

Would there be an chance a malfunctioning transmission control unit could cause the trans to try and do something it shouldn't thus causing this failure?
The reason I ask is the tiptronic hasn't always worked properly in this car since I got it. This is from my first post.
When I first got it sometimes the tiptronic wouldnt work properly when I tried to change down manually. the lights on the dash would flick down and then go back to "D" other times it work fine. When changing up it would change up but the lights would go from the lower gear up to "D" and then back to the gear it had changed to. With use this problem seemed to be improving.
I've been told that this problem is probably caused by a faulty micro switch/s in the shifter, but they appear to be just a std type micro switch that you could get something similar from Jaycar. To my way of thinking if a micro switch was faulty it would either work or not work. As described above,when changing up, if the switch wasn't working properly I'd expect that it just wouldn't change at all. Just like it does sometimes on the down change.
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
I'm considering replacing the control unit as a precaution but would prefer not to have to spend another $300 on it if I dont have to.
thanks in advance
Peter

tiptronic issue sounds like the micro switches and no I can't see how it would have damaged the box, separate issue I would say.

I had that fault under warranty with my TW. twice in fact because the replacement unit also had dicky switches. Mits replaced the entire shifter assembly in my case, did not go down to the individual parts level, I don't think you can get just the switches. there's a chance the switch is ok but maybe out of position or maybe they're just not making contact with whatever actuates them. I know with the second unit I had it worked most of the time but if I had just the smallest amount of sideways pressure on the shifter it stopped working suggesting the swithch may not have been making contact with the lever. never got in there to look at how it's assembled.

I'm joining the planetary gearset side of things having just had a failure. From what I saw in the FWD F4A51 box I just installed myself having never seen or tackled such a task before at 47 there are 4 large pins which needle rollers rotate around with the 4 planet gears rotating on them. From what i saw these are held in by some very small pins which appear to break then the large pins drop and just start grinding metal. when the pin wears away enough the pin drops enough for the washers to then fall out, get minced up and then circulate. then the valve body starts jamming up including the manual valve which was the first sign something bad was happening.

draining the fluid and having a good look expect to find metal

not sure if these are rollpins or not but I did get a bit of help from my one and only trans guy on some of the reassembly of my used TL box I purchased which had the old and yes broken wavy and he said two things. On a rebuild/reman, with the small pins they either stake these or weld them.

the planetary assembly in mine was held together with snap rings. The only large nut I've read about coming loose is the one on the transfer gear / output shaft the planetary set drives.

just thought I'd wack an image of my FWD box gears, not the AWD version you're talking about i know

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9HzIJUfGAOKgiNuWSHp6kZ1KXjH-S22DxbAEgABHVqI=w511-h644-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/12V6fHgncDlypQHBwtjlLwrW8lPCJLERzcJJYkJnc2g=w777-h643-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3A2G-V89OhGXW0CpqirpZXQGOukcEcSDW6aKofyH7Ak=w858-h643-no

Something else worth mentioning, my built-in oil cooler and lines in the radiator was clogged with metal and I was unable to fully get the debris out to my satisfaction so i ditched it and installed an external unit. what i did want to do was install an inline magnetic filter on the return line to the trans from the cooler but none of the parts places knew what i was on about but since have discovered there's a Magnefine filter, magnetic and available in 5/16 fitting at REPCO about $45. had to drive down there and have a discussion with the manager to establish they had it just whoever i got on the phone was unaware.

Someone kindly replied to my other post about the filter and that encouraged me to try again.

TW2005
Thanks for taking the time to type up such an informative reply. I appreciate that. Expensive looking pics. I was also thinkign abotu an external cooler for the same reasons.

regards
peter

Well the Magna is going again. I've only driven it about 5 k so far but it seems fine (what I was expecting and hoping for)
So cost breakdown
$1240 for a used transmission (130,00klm) without the transfer case including freight.
$937 to fit.
$152 tilt tray.
Just hope that this one is ok.
Thanks for the input everyone
peter

I meant to add that I'l take the trailer down and pick up the old one soon. When I get a chance I'll open it up to see what happened.
peter

Was going to say - could've bought my whole TJ AWD for less than that, stolen gearbox then sold off rest.. But too slow..

Was going to say - could've bought my whole TJ AWD for less than that, stolen gearbox then sold off rest.. But too slow..

For less than $1240?

I'm pretty sure the TJ AWD box isn't a straight swap into the TL/TW AWD as the TL/TW speedo pickup is sourced from the ABS system & not the gearbox speed sender unit like the TJ's.

Cheers

For less than $1240?

Yep. Had it on aussie magna buy swap Facebook page for about 5 weeks at 1k. Not in a real hurry to sell.


I'm pretty sure the TJ AWD box isn't a straight swap into the TL/TW AWD as the TL/TW speedo pickup is sourced from the ABS system & not the gearbox speed sender unit like the TJ's.

Cheers

I'm surprised. Wouldve thought they were in penny punching mode and not changing anything.

Yep. Had it on aussie magna buy swap Facebook page for about 5 weeks at 1k. Not in a real hurry to sell.

What about the cost to remove it from one car and install it in another car? :)

Well after driving around a bit over the last few days, the replacment transmission seems to be a lot smoother than the old one ever was. (not just the last couple of klms before it died.:D )
I've been trying to work out if it is actually smoother or if its just wishful thinking on my part. I'm pretty sure it is smoother. So maybe the old one has had an issue for a while.

peter

Well after driving around a bit over the last few days, the replacment transmission seems to be a lot smoother than the old one ever was. (not just the last couple of klms before it died.:D )
I've been trying to work out if it is actually smoother or if its just wishful thinking on my part. I'm pretty sure it is smoother. So maybe the old one has had an issue for a while.

peter

Without getting into the old box and seeing what happened hard to say. i'm certainly interested in you getting in there especially the planetary gearset. i do have some insight to this. If it was churning up metal and the particles get small enough they will start getting past the screen in the valve body. i can say with mine there is no doubt this is what was happening causing the valves in the VB to start to plate themselves with metal debris which is why my manual valve was binding. To the naked eye I could not see anything except some fine scoring. I know that most if not all of the valves in mine were sticking hench the poor shifts and delayed shifts and the pressure valve in mine was stuck.

are you still getting the old box off them?

I guess you did not go to the extreme of partially pulling this new box apart and fit a new internal filter?

I picked th eold box up yesterday afternoon. Not sure when I'll get a chance to open it up but that is on the list. Hopefully in the next week or so
The used box came with a 3 month parts warranty and I was told if it was opened up the warranty was void (If I make a claim under warranty its still going to cost another $880 or so to remove and refit) but also that if they were to do that it was going to cost another pile of money in parts and labour so I decided to take the gamble.
I've never won a big prize in the lottery or lotto so hopefully this will be it.:happy:
peter