Gday team,

Firstly I'd like to say a massive thanks to everyone here for all the information provided, I wouldn't have got this far in a magna mini-restoration without it.

So I have a 2003 TL ES Magna with 300,000 km that's been thrashed to hell and back over mostly country roads and I've replaced nearly everything (except for interior/trans/exhaust - just buy a new car rather than fixing it, but the owner loved the car)

The problem I have is this: Awhile back some child dropped a 5c coin into the broken master switch (center console) which broke the 40A fuse in the engine bay fusebox. Some ~5 years later, I replaced the green 40A fuse, pull apart the door cards, re-grease and everything works just fine (driver seat & all 4 windows)... except it isn't.

The battery, alternator and starter motor are all new (battery is 6 months old) so I don't think there's an issue there.

The battery does not drain if the 40A is taken out (car operates fine except windows/driver seat doesn't work) however, leave the 40A fuse in and overnight the battery is flat (dead flat, lights wont turn on, no lights on dash).

I worked out that the windows only activate with the key in, so it can't be the windows draining the battery and am now assuming it must be to do with the driver's seat. I'm not familiar with airbags and I think there's 3 loom plugs underneath the seat - I wanted to leave it disconnected over night and see if that's the cause, ~~~would you be able to help me with the correct procedure, I don't want to cop an airbag in the face.~~~ brainfart, its in the manual, nevermind!

Any ideas on the battery though?

Mark.

Edit: Have also bought an aftermarket Window Switch from Ebay (for $90 or something such) - If that has any bearing on the situation.

might be the lights in the door?

my brother had that once.

Sounds a bit like ours.
We bought a TL in Dec 2004 and it developed a similar sounding fault.
The discharge current seemed cyclical, on for about 1 minute and off for about 30 seconds when measured at the battery. (Clip-on ammeter.) Failed to crank in the morning.
Turned out to be the body management computer which was replaced under warranty, fortunately. There were no sounds of actuators, relays etc or lights anywhere.
Everything seemed to operate correctly. Took the dealer 3 days to find/fix it.

Sounds a bit like ours.
We bought a TL in Dec 2004 and it developed a similar sounding fault.
The discharge current seemed cyclical, on for about 1 minute and off for about 30 seconds when measured at the battery. (Clip-on ammeter.) Failed to crank in the morning.
Turned out to be the body management computer which was replaced under warranty, fortunately. There were no sounds of actuators, relays etc or lights anywhere.
Everything seemed to operate correctly. Took the dealer 3 days to find/fix it.

Body Management Computer hey... time to look into it and maybe get another.

Again this problem only occurs when the 40A fuse is in - However, the amps measured on the battery (in series with multi-meter) don't change when the fuse is taken out.

EDIT: Is the BMC the "Body Electronics Module" as per page 1465 of the FSM, I'm guessing it is. Although, "Inspection Procedure 22" (p. 1476) states it's either Faulty battery saver function or faulty crash sensor... The car was involved with a crash with a Kangaroo and the horn was disabled as alarm keeps tripping [Might have to do with the bonnet switch not being aligned properly though... & no remote fob, so not a stuck button] - but only headlight damage as far as I know, crash sensor is in B Pillar, so not effected?... I just have to figure out if that 40Amp fuse has anything to do with the alarm or not...

Edit 2: Is the Body Electronics Module linked to the immobilizer & key ? i.e. if i get another BEM do I need to re-program key to start ignition?

Edit 3: There's another crash detect sensor under the center console according to p1482 / 54 chassis electrical - crash detect sensor. Hrm. Will go check this as per the FSM but don't see how it's linked to this fuse. Wait, that's non SRS (airbag?) vehicles.

Body Management Computer hey... time to look into it and maybe get another.

Again this problem only occurs when the 40A fuse is in - However, the amps measured on the battery (in series with multi-meter) don't change when the fuse is taken out.


Is the multi-meter set to measure DC current?
What is the "parasitic drain" of the car? (ie drain with everything off).


Its possible that the inertia of the instrument is too slow to register some kind of impulse drain.
Analog multimeters are usually worse in this regard.
Digital multimeters may have a peak hold function that might help.

What is powered via this fuse (vehicle alarms?).

As far as I can tell, the 40A fuse only powers the windows and driver's seat, possibly the alarm, The TJ/KJ manual isn't helpful other than "Fuses are here" (not what they are :( )

But again, if I leave the fuse out, the battery is fine for weeks. Leave the fuse in and the battery is drained over night.

peak hold on multimeter, right, will investigate further.

Edit: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/23/00/b7/large/0996b43f802300b7.gif 20 - Power Windows 40 Amp fuse. (For a 2000 Diamante but same thing)

http://www.justanswer.com/mitsubishi/4ecb6-mitsubishi-fuse-located-electric-windows-magna.html#




That 40A fusible link is for the power windows, seat and sunroof. I would inspect the connections of the 40A fusible link to make sure the connectors are OK and not creating a closed circuit some how. I would also check the fuses for the power windows and power seat and make sure their connections are ok as well as the seat connections and the power windows connections.

[Babow - definitely green fusible link 40amp fuse] and I had bought it brand new. All other fuses have been checked and deemed okay.

Might just disconnect the seat (via the 3 plugs underneath) and see if that does anything over night.

AFAIK, there are no 40A fuses used in the Magna/Verad. I am looking at the electronic manual. There are only two fusible links that are rated at 40A.


CENTRALISED JUNCTION
FUSIBLE LINK (Relay box in engine compartment)
No. Used Circuit Type Colour of housing Rated capacity
19 Ignition switch Connector type Pink 30
20 Power window, sunroof, power seat,
exclusive fuse Nos. 18 and 20 Connector type Green 40
21 Headlamp Connector type Green 40
22 ABS Connector type Yellow 60
23 Fusible link Nos. 2 and 3, charging Screwed-in type White 120
24 Exclusive fuse No. 17, general purpose
fuse Nos. 1, 2, 3, 10 and 11 Screwed-in type Yellow 60


Fuses 18 and 20 are in the small fuse block next to the in-cabin fuse panel.

Narva also makes the female fusible link 40amp plug as well.
https://www.autobarn.com.au/narva-fuse-link-plug-40amp-female-53040bl

Oh, my mistake, I cocked up. It is that green 40Amp fusible link.

Sorry, Fuses 18 and 20? Under the kickpanel, there's the normal fuse block which is full and next to that there's the extra 4-piece fuse block and there's only 1 lime green fuse (15 or 20A I think) in there.

18 and 20 are in that 4 fuse block. Number starts from top left, 18, top right, 19, bottom left 20 and bottom right 21.

Pull 18 and 20 out on separate nights to see which circuit is at fault. But yeah, could just unplug the seat connector and try that first.

18 and 20 are in that 4 fuse block. Number starts from top left, 18, top right, 19, bottom left 20 and bottom right 21.

Pull 18 and 20 out on separate nights to see which circuit is at fault. But yeah, could just unplug the seat connector and try that first.

I only have 1 fuse in that fuse block, oh dear. This sounds like it could be what's wrong then...

I only have 1 fuse in that fuse block, oh dear. This sounds like it could be what's wrong then...

Not necessarily as base model variants generally do have missing fuses which protect circuits for additional equipment only found in upper spec models like sunroof etc.

Roger.

Will disconnect fuses and play with multimeter again. Then will disconnect driver's seat overnight and see what that does (should just be the 3 plugs underneath)

Thanks for your help so far, appreciate it muchly.

Edit:

So with doors shut, no visible lights on and the key out, the car is drawing ~.4A (~.6A with the driver door open) The seat uses ~2A, the windows uses ~4A. When turning the key to ACC, it jumps to 12A.

Been following this thread for instructions www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57352&page=5

Edit 2: I've pulled all the fuses (engine bay and under driver kick panel) and nothing changed on the meter - didn't pull the 60A or 120A fusable links (bolted) though. I've got it left on and will check in a hour or so to see if it's still sitting at ~.4A. Has been suggested that this is just a dead battery (even though it was new) and should take it to a proper place who can test it with load and whatever other white magic.

Edit 3: Battery has discharged completely several times while trying to find this fault - Has been charged overnight multiple times with a trickle charger - maybe the battery is just dead and was a coincidence that a power window motor (well, we thought it wasn't working, unplugged, replugged and suddenly working again) was playing up (hence me thinking it was related to that 40A fuse)

Everything is stock electrically by the way , no speakers/subs/amps/headunit, all genuine OEM factory mitsubishi. Battery is a Platinum Power 2000 - N50MF (http://www.independantbattery.com.au/products/product/ibd-range/platinum-power-2000-calcium/n50mf1)

12 amps is too much for simply selecting ACC....but...


disconnect the alternator and see how much is drawn from the battery, then the starter motor solenoid.

Both easy to do.

Update:

So playing around with the fuse box in the engine bay and fuses 10 & 11 are in a yellow "bucket/pot". When I pulled the pot upwards, the ammeter dropped to 0 or 0.1. Aside from the door light not being on, everything works. Pushing the bucket/pot back in and it goes back up to .4A.

I think this might be the cause, anyone know what it (the bucket thing) is? I can get a photo if required.

Assuming the battery is about 50 AH in capacity (typical good battery!).
1 day of voltage limited charging will bring it up to about 80% capacity from flat.
So to "flatten" the battery overnight (12 hours!) you need, roughly, a discharge current of say 3 amps (very approximate!).

Now 0.4 amps parasitic current is too much for a car, but even at that current it would take 4 days for the battery to go totally flat (again very approximate!).
Assuming the battery is somewhat stuffed then RC maybe only be 2 days worth, meaning it would still have enough juice to try and start the car next morning (not dead!).
A small lamp would only be a few watts (say 4 watts), so if one is on, it could easily raise the reading from 0.1A to 0.4A (maybe boot light switch stuck on?).

Seems to me, from the above, a faulty windows or seat circuit is a good fit.
Except for this, a steady DC current flow of a few amps should be measureable by a typical multimeter.

I am suspicious of the accuracy of these multimeter readings and state of health/charge of the battery itself.

http://i.imgur.com/bfZjwNT.jpg Is the yellow fuse "cup" inquestion, when I pull it up it seems to isolate those two circuits Fuses 10 & 11 ("Audio, Room Light") and that's when i'm drawing 0.1 Amps as opposed to 0.4 Amps (when that fuse cup is pushed in).

Which seems to point to the problem being interior lights - Everything is visibly off except for the dome light which has no bulb or Audio. This along with the health/charge of battery could be the issue. Although I'm still confused as to the window/seat nonsense.

Deleted

So... may have found the culprit.

I removed the fuses from the yellow cup - you have to lever one of the prongs to the side then they pop straight up. Put them back in and now i'm showing 0.03A drawing as opposed to the previous .4A.

Theory: High resistance joint at the fuse - Upon refitting it scrubbed some of the corrosion off - Have taken the 15A (culprit) back out and given it a light scrub with a light abrasive pad.

Hopefully that's Solved.

Much thanks to everyone who pitched in.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. A poor electrical joint can not draw current of its own.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. A poor electrical joint can not draw current of its own.

yes and no http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Electrical_Circuit_Faults "High resistance connections".

either the current draw magically disappeared or it had something to do with me pulling the fuse in/out. As that was the only electrical thing I did other than move a window up and down to adjust its max height.

it's still a sloppy finish unfortunately as I can't say that was 100% the cause, or if it was a combination of things.

I am with flyboy.
Corrosion on the fuse/plug contacts isn't going to increase current flow.


But it is possible that corrosion residue around the fuse holder is tracking current to ground!


Either way 0.3 amps isn't enough to flatten the battery overnight.


Will be interesting to if you still end up with a flat battery,

High in-line resistance won't drain a battery (actually more likely the opposite) without a load or short to complete the circuit. On its own, a high-resistance joint in a DC circuit will act like a resistor, effectively reducing the current flow and creating heat. Hopefully your problem is gone but if not I'd be having a very good look around that fuse holder to see if there's any shorting going on or a melted insulator somewhere.

I've stuck the battery back onto the smart charger-thing for the time being - had to play with the windows a bit to clean & re-lube, was about 11.8V though. Have to do a few other jobs here and there but will keep thread updated as to how the battery voltage is going over the next few days.

11.8v is too low for a no load voltage.

yes and no http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Circuit_Faults "High resistance connections".

A high resistance connection on an open circuit (in this case) or even in a closed circuit, can not increase current, and I'll eat my science degree if you care to prove me wrong.

I hope whatever you've done does the trick though!

11.8v is too low for a no load voltage.


I had been playing with the windows i.e. moving them up and down so i could dry-PTFE lube them and also to correct alignment so the doors shut properly. Hence why voltage was low.




A high resistance connection on an open circuit (in this case) or even in a closed circuit, can not increase current, and I'll eat my science degree if you care to prove me wrong.

I hope whatever you've done does the trick though!

I am but a simple mechanical pleb, electronics is still white man magic (hence clutching at straws)... but I hope so too!

At the end of the day, I think it'll be alright. Although the battery has sure copped it and will probably end up being replaced a lot sooner rather than later.

Edit/Update 1: Battery is at 13.38V after overnight charge.

Update 2 - Battery installed: Battery was at 12.97V (3pm 4th august) after running car for ~10 minutes (trying to bleed cooling system).

And Battery currently is 12.37V (2pm 5th August) 24 hours later. A good battery should sit at 12.6V? Sounds like I had multiple issues and the battery is a bit worse for wear, oops.

Update 3: Battery is at 11.8V (1pm 6th August). Oh dear, either something is still draining, or battery is U/S - NFG. Might have to go for a BOSCH one at Costco. - Did a current draw check with multimeter and it's showing 0.4A again. Piss.

For **** Sake.

I thought I had checked the boot light but...

On my wild goose chase I thought it might have been a glove box light but then thought, well, magna doesn't have one, what else could "Room Light" electrical system be... the boot light? but I've already checked it...

Sure enough, boot light is on when the boot shuts.

At least this is officially problem solved now.

Edit: I have mashed the absolute hell out of the lock & component area under the boot (with the fuse isolated) with brake cleaner, let it dry and have lubricated liberally with WD40 Dry Lube PTFE. Seems to have done the trick.

Hmm, were you ever able to lock/arm the car with the remote? If your Magna had factory alarm then it won't am if the boot light is on. This was the case with my old KS Verada and KW Verada as well as dad's TJ S2 Magna. The horn will sound two short bursts.

Car never had a remote, only one key. So I can't say whether or not the alarm has had anything to do with it.

There was an issue (according to the owner) where the horn goes off (so alarm) but I think that's due to the bonnet alarm button (needs to be shimmed or something?) and as such the horn has been disconnected - I'll plug it back in and see how it goes though.

Glad you got it sorted.

You might find the battery is on its last legs because of the repeated draining, but see how it goes - you might be lucky and it may recover.

Dry lube/wd40 not good for electrical components - get some electrical contact cleaner and give the switch a good blast with that.

Get the bonnet switch sorted and you'll then be able to reconnect the horn too.

Take the battery out and put it on constant current charge of about 500 mA for a few days.

This will gas the battery to remove any electrolyte stratification and give it a good equalising charge.
At the end of that you will have reversed all the recoverable lead sulphate (as good as its going get).

And if the battery was nearly stuffed it might shed some active material to kill it completely viz
Battery will seem to be fully charged but won't supply enough CCA to start the car.

So it was a combination of the boot light on and stuffed battery or inadequate recharging of the battery.
Battery condition remains to be tested.

Last few posts - how sad!