Hi all,

This is my first post, so hello - i've been following these forums on and off for a month or two now as a guest and decided it was finally time to sign up. :)

I've recently purchased myself a TR magna, because I'm getting my P's in 17 days (but who's counting). I did a lot of research and decided this was gonna be an awesome first car. And it is! I'm incredibly happy with it, i got myself a 3.0ltr manual, (quite rare, not many for sale i found out) sunroof, rear spoiler, colour coded bumpers, half decent stereo etc etc - so im completely happy with my ride for the moment.

But there is one thing that's bugging me. It doesnt happen every time, but often enough to be a concern. Its very hard to explain, but basically from a standstill - if i give it a lot of power while bringing the clutch out, the entire front of the car bounces and hops like crazy. It doesnt lose traction however, it just physically jumps about. This also happens twice as much in the wet when it loses traction.

I've been driving RWD commodores my entire life and this is foreign to me, but i've been researching all night and i think i have narrowed it down to a thing called 'wheel hop' - but i could be completely wrong. Also, my car steers slightly left if i let go of the wheel (eg. it will turn a wide bend by itself) so i got my wheels aligned, but it didnt fix it. The guy was talking about CV joints needing replacing??? Don't know if these two are related.

Any light shed on what this is, how i can fix it, cost of fixing etc etc would be awesome.

Thanks!!
Shane.

Sounds like you got a good ride mate, a 3.0L Manual TR with a sunroof... SCORE!

As for your problem, welcome to the world of FWD! Its commonly reffered to as axel or wheel hop and is and occurs when the car gets too much traction on a hard lauch (yes its possible). Im not an expert on this subject but this is what i've been told.

The best fix to this problem is your launch technique, you will find you will need to take of lightly to get the car rolling then plant it instead of revving it to 3000rpm and dumping the clutch.

Other ways to help solve the problem included upgrading your front suspension and or engine mounts. Stiffer engine mounts will help combat the problem as will stiffer suspension.

My reccomendation would be to install a set of lowering springs which will drop your ride, get it looking good and seriously upgrade handling. This combined with a slight adjustment of your technique should solve the problem completely.

Sunroof? Color coded bumpers? Spoiler? TR?

is it a verada or elite? definatly not an exec

I want your sunroof btw. how much? :D



Nice to see yet another Vic member also.. hope you find this place as usefull as i have mate.

Nothing a decent suspension setup (springs/shocks etc), good tyres and above all else sensible driving wont cure imo... though others may argue?

In a moderatley powered FWD vehicle axle tramp & torque steer are usually the result of heavy (excessive?) acceleration though torque steer is not uncommon with higher powered vehicles especially those running forced induction.

The addition of a front strut tower brace will help with torque steer and are readily available for the TR from Whitline - Part #KSB607. AU$203.64 RRP.

https://www.whiteline.com.au/store/

Did they do a balance and alignment or just the latter ?

Hope this helps.

'axle tramp' is the wheel hopping. make sure ur front tyres have the correct pressure in them firstly. try and find out wat tyre pressure ur tyres are supposed to have and set it to that. (mine take 32psi but mine is a 4 cylinder. dunno bout weight differences etc) if thats alright, then yeah... suspension etc. lowering the car at the front should also help alittle. and improve handling and takeoffs etc...

just my 2c

brendan

How is a strut tower brace going to help with torque steer? It is a characteristic of unequal length driveshafts, i.e. most FWDs.

How is a strut tower brace going to help with torque steer? It is a characteristic of unequal length driveshafts, i.e. most FWDs.

yeah! you tell em jim!!
:D

you're my hero tek..... :cool:

Tell us a bit about the car. How many kms it's done, how much it cost you, what colour etc and some pics would be good.

Get your CV joints checked.

Your breasts are looking as plump as ever Angelina :D

yes, you rike? i rike! velly noice...

Hi again all,

Sorry for not replying, i haven't been near a computer for days! Thanks for all the feedback, its all appreciated so much. I will look into the parts/advice recommended.

Yes, i have to agree that it is primarily my technique because the hopping used to occur heaps more when i first purchased the car (approx 2 months ago) and i wasnt exactly an experienced manual driver. It has settled down a lot since then, but still does occur every now and again.

As for the wierdness of my car - well, i was driving with a mate yesterday, and he thinks the sunroof may be aftermarket because of the switch that is used to control it, but i'll find out soon because i have to get the seals replaced. :mad: Oh, also, another wierd fact - my car did roughly 160,000 kms in the first 2 years of it's life!!

It is definitely a TR Magna Executive, with all those extras, it now has roughly 212,000kms on the clock (thats the major downside, i would have liked a little less :)) its white, and i paid $5000 for her with 12 months reg and RWC. I want to start modifying her asap, exhaust system will prob come first as i have NO cash atm and that is relatively cheap.

Thanks all, again, i appreciate any advice you guys have cos i am new at this whole FWD (and magna) thing!

Cheers,
Shane.

p.s - Jim, you are a legend, you have stood out in my mind ever since i started browsing these forums with your knowledge and helpfullness - it's people like you that makes places like these work.

p.p.s - Pics will be posted soon, when i'm at home next :)

Nothing a decent suspension setup (springs/shocks etc), good tyres and above all else sensible driving wont cure imo... though others may argue?

In a moderatley powered FWD vehicle axle tramp & torque steer are usually the result of heavy (excessive?) acceleration though torque steer is not uncommon with higher powered vehicles especially those running forced induction.

The addition of a front strut tower brace will help with torque steer and are readily available for the TR from Whitline - Part #KSB607. AU$203.64 RRP.

https://www.whiteline.com.au/store/

Did they do a balance and alignment or just the latter ?

Hope this helps.
As Akko said.. new suspension.. ie. STIFFER. My Lancer used to have it something FIERCE, & when I replaced the fronts with Kings Lows, & Monroe GT Gas shocks, it removed the problem almost immediately. The problem is caused when the wheels bounce on the spot, & the suspensions rebound rate is too slooooow.. the stiffer suspension simply helps keep the tyres stuck to the road better.

As for torque steer, live with it, & you'll learn to enjoy it eventually... I'll never forget the look on the face of a mate I raced in a V8 Fairmont, when the Magna lerched about 2feet toward his lane when I launched it hard with T/C off... he nearly **** himself, but I knew it was gonna happen, so it was all good! :D

Sunroof? Color coded bumpers? Spoiler? TR?

is it a verada or elite? definatly not an exec

I want your sunroof btw. how much? :D


Yep they are called SE

You get everything a Verada's got minus climate and electric windows/locks (optional)

Also, my car steers slightly left if i let go of the wheel (eg. it will turn a wide bend by itself) so i got my wheels aligned, but it didnt fix it. The guy was talking about CV joints needing replacing??? Don't know if these two are related.

Shane.

Im not sure how accurate this is, but ive been told all cars built in Australia will do this as its meant to be some sort of safety thing. So say if you fall asleep while driving the car will drive off the road ratrher than steer into the truck coming at you.

But yeah, if anybody else who actually knows can shed some more light on this?

Im not sure how accurate this is, but ive been told all cars built in Australia will do this as its meant to be some sort of safety thing. So say if you fall asleep while driving the car will drive off the road ratrher than steer into the truck coming at you.

But yeah, if anybody else who actually knows can shed some more light on this?

Sounds like rubbish to me. I've had wheel alignments that track dead straight. Besides, how can it be a safety feature to have you veer off the road into a tree at 80km/h? :D

As Akko said.. new suspension.. ie. STIFFER. My Lancer used to have it something FIERCE, & when I replaced the fronts with Kings Lows, & Monroe GT Gas shocks, it removed the problem almost immediately. The problem is caused when the wheels bounce on the spot, & the suspensions rebound rate is too slooooow.. the stiffer suspension simply helps keep the tyres stuck to the road better.

As for torque steer, live with it, & you'll learn to enjoy it eventually... I'll never forget the look on the face of a mate I raced in a V8 Fairmont, when the Magna lerched about 2feet toward his lane when I launched it hard with T/C off... he nearly **** himself, but I knew it was gonna happen, so it was all good! :D

Yeah i have surprised myself when accelerating out of a corner really hard, in RWD you can just let the steering wheel slide through your hands slightly but i almost ran off the road when i loosened my grip on my Magna!!! Torque steer is quite annoying but i'm getting used to how NOT to accelerate now :)


Yep they are called SE

You get everything a Verada's got minus climate and electric windows/locks (optional)

The thing is, it isnt even an SE! (well there isnt an SE badge on the back anyway) Confusing car... :nuts:

P.S - Pictures going up tonight!

Yeh you can get axle tramp in RWD's aswell, its a case of the tyre griping then slipping then gripping. With the torque steer you need to learn to control the throttle through 1st rather then the foot to the floor technique! It's easy just to punch the clutch a bit until you get going but in the long run throttle control is a far better way to go about it.

Also in regards to the pulling to the left issue. Most roads are slightly cambered so water doesn't build up in puddles.

Re the car "drifting to the left" this is the definitive answer (I am working on an exact same case at work and it is giving me a hernia because the customer is so 2 dimensional and anal):

A car that is set up for enthusiastic driving will have symmetrical alignment when you compare left to right sides of the car. This is ideally set whilst the car is at it's normal laden weight with the driver in the seat. This is because as soon as you change the weight distribution of the car, it changes the alignment.

A symmetrical alignment means that the car will have the same handling characteristics when taking either left or right hand corners. Bearing in mind a public road is not a racetrack, there is one disadvantage of this type of setup. Essentially 99% of public roads are cambered, or sloped to one side of the road (sometimes two sides on wide roads). This camber allows for runoff of water, road debris etc into the gutters.

Now as your car is set up for symmetric ("race" if you want to call it) handling, the car is going to follow the camber of the road if you don't guide it. I.e. the car will tend to drift left if the road slopes to the left, and vice versa. There are basically 2 things steering a car, your hands on the wheel and the surface of the road. Let go of your wheel and the road will steer.

Now in terms of manufacturers biasing cars one way or another, it can be true in some instances; they do this by running uneven caster on the car (angle of steering axis to the verticle axis of the wheel). This will compensate *somewhat* for the camber of the road. The issue with this is that european cars which have been converted from LHD to RHD, an if they do not convert the suspension as well, i.e. swap the caster compensation from left to right, the compensation will be towards the wrong side. For example in France they drive on the right hand side of the road and the road is often cambered to the right. If you bring a French car to Australia, the caster compensation coupled with our roads which camber left will cause quite a great tendency for the car to want to drift off the road.

Another factor that can amplify the effect of the road steering the car, is tyre width and tread. A wider tyre will follow the road more. A directional tyre will also follow the road more. Certain tyres will also exert more radial pull (ref to your old physics books), even non directional tyres.

Bottom line: Keep your freaking hands on the steering wheel and get a good 4 wheel alignment (even those with rear beam axles). And re comments about going into trees if you fall asleep, it is a much better option than going into oncoming traffic.

PG: Thanks for the kind words, it's always great to be of help :D

whoa man, nice description - yeah that does make all logical sense, i like it. Hehehe, yeah i will keep my hands on the wheel :D

Here's some pics of my ride, she's beautiful as is but i can't wait to slap a set of wheels on her - twill make her ultimate. lol

Any one watch NASCAR. I don't. But I do remember from a computer game (and the're all correct) that they set the car up to steer to the left 'cause that's all they do. 500 times per race, or there abouts.

Road camber is the most common cause of cars steering to the left. Suicide is the most common cause of them veering right into the path of on-comming trucks. Driver fatigue is usually blamed, even when a suicide note is found it never makes the press. Funny that (in a peculiar way only).

Don't ask me to explain the police/government reasoning for this because I can't. I just find it interesting that they put on the news that an accident was caused by 'driver fatigue' or even better 'speeding' when a suicide note was found describing how the person was planning to kill themself - by driving into a truck. I have seen this type of thing more than once.

If anyone wants to get into a debate about the waste of tax payers money in the search of more taxpayers money by 'politically correct' means then please subscribe to MOTOR magazine.

Any one watch NASCAR. I don't. But I do remember from a computer game (and the're all correct) that they set the car up to steer to the left 'cause that's all they do. 500 times per race, or there abouts.

Road camber is the most common cause of cars steering to the left. Suicide is the most common cause of them veering right into the path of on-comming trucks. Driver fatigue is usually blamed, even when a suicide note is found it never makes the press. Funny that (in a peculiar way only).

Don't ask me to explain the police/government reasoning for this because I can't. I just find it interesting that they put on the news that an accident was caused by 'driver fatigue' or even better 'speeding' when a suicide note was found describing how the person was planning to kill themself - by driving into a truck. I have seen this type of thing more than once.

If anyone wants to get into a debate about the waste of tax payers money in the search of more taxpayers money by 'politically correct' means then please subscribe to MOTOR magazine.

One word - Insurance.