Hi Guys,

Haven't been here in a while, but have come back for some advise. My Magna TJ 2002 just wen in for a service and to have the front boots replaced, its been about 3-4 weeks since that work was done.

Had a problem with the transmission that has happened twice now - 1st time drove the car cold (5 min drive) got back in car (after about 10 mins) went to reverse out, had no reverse gear. Turned car off, back on, tried again and reverse gear came back but with a bit of lag (as in it engaged say 5 or so seconds after) and it didn't seem to be engaging the gear properly - like a loss of power. So reversed out, and had the same problem with drive. Drove down the road and seemed to have a loss in power through the gears. got close to 60kmh and gave it a good rev and seemed to respond well to that. Got to my destination, again about 10mins later jumped in the car and it was all fine?

2nd time was the other morning, cold start and exactly the same thing as above etc. nursed it along but this time I noticed it was completely slipping out of gear - as though putting it into neutral while driving along and seeing the revs go up. Jumped back in later that day (a good 8 hrs later and all was good)

The other thing I have noticed is when in drive and stationary (foot on the brake) there is a very audible rattle coming from the engine. When I put into park, the rattle goes.

What would is the likely cause of the symptoms I have described above and could it be related to the recent service I had?

Car has done around 120,000km and serviced regularly.

Thanks

Ben,

When was the last time the transmission was serviced (did they service it this time around)?

Do you have wet carpet in the front passenger foot well (right up under the dash)?

Ben,

When was the last time the transmission was serviced (did they service it this time around)?

Do you have wet carpet in the front passenger foot well (right up under the dash)?

I'll have to check the receipt, and I'll have to check the front carpet, this car only gets driven to and from the train station in my daily commute, so it's only getting quick, short trips these day's.

What are you thinking, loss of transmission fluid or leak?

Ok, so have checked carpet - fine. Checked receipt - service done 21/08, no mention of transmission serviced only

"...conducted full inspection of vehicle and driveline....."
"...topped up other fluids...."
"engine flush"

also the rattle is present when in reverse and at a complete stop.....

I would have to go back through my reciepts but im pretty sure the transmission hasn't been serviced unless its part of the standard service schedule in the log book.....

I think what flyboy was suggesting is that maybe the heater core leaked water onto the ECU/TCU causing damage.

Did you check the ATF level? If low I believe it may cause these issues

Thanks Spetz and flyboy for your resonses, I check the ATF level and looked fine (cold) and the oil colour looked clean.

Might just call the mechanic on monday....

Cheers

Just thought I would update, phoned my mechanic and explained the problem, dropped it off the other day, had a good chat and both went for a drive.

When I picked up the car, they did a trans flush and found some metal fragments in the trans sump, also gave the trans a treatment (guessing this is some kind of additive to clean the internals of the trans?), did a few other touch ups on the engine.

Although I haven't driven it much since, the trans does feel a lot more responsive and less sluggish, the idle rattle is gone.

So the metal fragments, - could this be early signs of wave spring failure or just general metal fatigue in the trans? When I first bought the car, it used to have a shocking down gear change from 4th to 3rd, would make a loud clunking sound......

Just thought I would update, phoned my mechanic and explained the problem, dropped it off the other day, had a good chat and both went for a drive.

When I picked up the car, they did a trans flush and found some metal fragments in the trans sump, also gave the trans a treatment (guessing this is some kind of additive to clean the internals of the trans?), did a few other touch ups on the engine.

Although I haven't driven it much since, the trans does feel a lot more responsive and less sluggish, the idle rattle is gone.

So the metal fragments, - could this be early signs of wave spring failure or just general metal fatigue in the trans? When I first bought the car, it used to have a shocking down gear change from 4th to 3rd, would make a loud clunking sound......

You would know if it was the wave spring, a sickly feeling in your stomach would be felt as you look at bits of solid metal 2-3 cm's long.

Just thought I would update, phoned my mechanic and explained the problem, dropped it off the other day, had a good chat and both went for a drive.

When I picked up the car, they did a trans flush and found some metal fragments in the trans sump, also gave the trans a treatment (guessing this is some kind of additive to clean the internals of the trans?), did a few other touch ups on the engine.

Although I haven't driven it much since, the trans does feel a lot more responsive and less sluggish, the idle rattle is gone.

So the metal fragments, - could this be early signs of wave spring failure or just general metal fatigue in the trans? When I first bought the car, it used to have a shocking down gear change from 4th to 3rd, would make a loud clunking sound......

Did you keep the fragments? photos? Did they look like case hardened material, or shavings . What colour? Grey metallic paste is fairly standard on the plug

Not the clearest picture but on the outer edges you can see gouging from the broken wavespring trying to escape. You can see the opening where if it falls through ends up in the sump.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/naIyCPRNDuw_mCuvNi7iW0v8Qm5uLeu3EcbjebyVBaA7Efc7NJ rv8ghWS4eOYNWBxT0f9cPSE0vnz0HO6yvxxYKQ3SnzqF18-nKjPx9AtwC533prf3MAPv2QFcxK4Y1SBcFi3JUPxroLz3IMQl-18A4a6IFTpRo3Ck5DdBMc3YLUFiW9ZFuy07wY_X4Nuh1lWKp5Y iWXig-_Yap0ACsDzhId8Gp8FAUm9T-8_pyzhuvzMCr-bOyHu0zBY-rScZLFD_ocrUgjyawR7j838x7KbzyWkHrTC5OgXZ2nUP0fTJ58-REl1tbOrCT28WhMdeNsRPBR4v-2YzMQjqxE3le7EwLY7B8wqQAtifZ4GzG6QX9AWjKAMJ9IZZo6n TmGOxC0vjuBl7zvW8WnPRZwzCkDrHcVGG9yLORcsQv4dJ4Vfxz yo0pYxIzL41RReCI9UbUHRIlX4kmEyuLzIsU1th8uEMQvySZNF AJjAunekUw5AE6mkodcE3bAz26k9tOKMVwKlV0N2PKRG0lUJ14 pEFo60Nl732UDW7rV7nXnrc0yviY=w1217-h599-no

That does not sound like wavespring......planetary gears more like.....my opinion...

No, didn't see them as it was my mechanic that did the work, he just said small metal fragments had collected in the trans sump. Im not very mechanically gifted myself, and not set up to do work on it myself (space and tools). But it sounds as though the trans is inevitably going to fail?

Well, break out the violins cos its finally died. When I put it in drive nothing happens, give it a decent rev and it seems to catch, but very sluggish, slips out of gears as you drive - has become unsafe to drive.

So guessing the trans is completely stuffed, what would I be looking at cost wise to either have the trans fixed or get a reconditioned trans fitted? Car is less than 120,000 km's. Thanks.

A reconditioned transmission installed is generally around $3,000.
You can get a replacement second hand unit fitted for less. If you do that, while it is out have the wave spring changed. With the transmission out of the car I was told it's only a 2 hour job

Wow, $3k! Is that just because of labor or is a recon trans that much?

Wow, $3k! Is that just because of labor or is a recon trans that much?

I would get quotes as they vary quiet a bit.

It must be a combination of both.
The cheapest quote I saw was $2,700.

Cheers guys, gonna make some calls and get some quotes, I'll let u know how it goes.

Just an update, rang a few Auto transmission places and got quotes similar (around the mark) to what Spetz said - all around the $2.5K + GST.
Thought long and hard about what to do, but decided I want to keep the car running for years to come (had it around 11 yrs now) so I booked it in.

The guy I took it too gave me two scenarios;


Wave spring had failed, little damage done to planetary gears (SP?) and maybe pump slightly damaged - he would repair and would be around $1500 to fix

Wave spring failed, major damage done to planetary gears and pump - replace all damaged parts, fit and test (full reconditioned) $2500 + GST


unfortunately it was number 2 :(

He rebuilt the trans with an after market heavy duty wave spring so this shouldn't happen again, and gave me a 2 year warranty (just need to take it back for a service in 12 months time)

Just not what I needed right before xmas......

Thanks though for everyones input, hopefully my experience will help someone with similar symptoms, makes me think if I had it looked at when the problem first happened, it may have not done so much damage and would have saved me some $$ but coulda woulda shoulda.............

The heavy duty wave spring they use is actually a Mitsubishi item from an older model transmission (2nd gen 4 cylinder auto Magna if I am not mistaken?).

Good to see you fixed up the car though

I was in the same boat last month...big hit to the savings, but just as yours does, my rebuilt one has a 2 year warranty so it give me some peace of mind.

My damaged one didn't really have any major symptoms in terms of how it performed...just the typical 3-4cm long wave spring fragments when I had a service done, but when it was opened up the damage was pretty clear and it would have gone at any moment.

The heavy duty wave spring they use is actually a Mitsubishi item from an older model transmission (2nd gen 4 cylinder auto Magna if I am not mistaken?).

Good to see you fixed up the car though

As far as i can work out it's a completely new revised part and the Trans in the 2nd gen is a completely different generation of gearbox. But the construction of the wave spring is a single layer and in appearance looks the same.

Just an update, rang a few Auto transmission places and got quotes similar (around the mark) to what Spetz said - all around the $2.5K + GST.
Thought long and hard about what to do, but decided I want to keep the car running for years to come (had it around 11 yrs now) so I booked it in.

The guy I took it too gave me two scenarios;


Wave spring had failed, little damage done to planetary gears (SP?) and maybe pump slightly damaged - he would repair and would be around $1500 to fix

Wave spring failed, major damage done to planetary gears and pump - replace all damaged parts, fit and test (full reconditioned) $2500 + GST


unfortunately it was number 2 :(

He rebuilt the trans with an after market heavy duty wave spring so this shouldn't happen again, and gave me a 2 year warranty (just need to take it back for a service in 12 months time)

Just not what I needed right before xmas......

Thanks though for everyones input, hopefully my experience will help someone with similar symptoms, makes me think if I had it looked at when the problem first happened, it may have not done so much damage and would have saved me some $$ but coulda woulda shoulda.............

So what had failed then? wavy and planetary. was the pump ok? Does sound similar to what happened to my 60 000k reman, planetary set had come loose and metal grinder from then on until the metal started jamming the VB up and eventually detonated itself

My damaged one didn't really have any major symptoms in terms of how it performed...just the typical 3-4cm long wave spring fragments when I had a service done, but when it was opened up the damage was pretty clear and it would have gone at any moment.
This is scary. My spring came out in 2 pieces which matched up, so got all of it.
What kind of damage was found when it was opened up?

So what had failed then? wavy and planetary. was the pump ok? Does sound similar to what happened to my 60 000k reman, planetary set had come loose and metal grinder from then on until the metal started jamming the VB up and eventually detonated itself

I was told the wave spring had broken apart, fragments had gotten into the planetary gears and stuffed up half the pump - im not an auto trans expert but he was telling me it has two parts (the pump) and normally can salvage half of it when they are reconditioned - my pump was only half stuffed.

I was actually luck I could even drive it there, I lost R gear, and when taking of you needed to give it a decent rev before it engaged, and even then it bunny hopped along for a bit before it got to second, or sometimes it would go straight into third. Also helped that the guy was only 10 mins drive, and partially down hill so used N alot.....

This is scary. My spring came out in 2 pieces which matched up, so got all of it.
What kind of damage was found when it was opened up?

Similar to what Ben described just above in terms of the planetary and pump, plus a few worn clutch plates and a couple of other wave spring fragments elsewhere in the system.