Firstly, i dont know much about cars.

whats the difference between turbo and supercharge? and car they be done to anycar? and whats the cost involved?

How TURBOS (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm) work.

Difference between turbo and supercharger (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm)

Also to add to the above articles, i didnt read them so it might have mentioned this. because a supercharger runs off the Cam it is giving a boost over the whole revrange, whereas a turbo has to "spool" up before it gives a boost, u may have heard the term "caught off boost" this is what wogs in wrx's use when they get beaten by anything as they were in the wrong gear or whatever.

In theory u can do either to any engine.....just depends how much money u have to spend and whether there is room in the engine bay to do it.

your looking at AT LEAST $4000 for a very basic turbo setup

so a super chargeer would cost more?

I would supercharge personaly, with a piggy back ecu, m90 eaton, and stock internals.

give you a decient 40-50kw gain straight up. and if you do the work yourself you could get away with it for under 3000 dollars i reckon.

even better, get me to do the work :cool:

i would except you arent in adeaide!

super charge is what id rather do

your looking at AT LEAST $4000 for a very basic turbo setup

Yikes!
/me would like to see where you could get a turbo setup for 4k.

the most basic of parts for the budget of setup.
*turbo
*manifolds (remember, there isnt any offtheshelf kits for us, so its custom manifolds, and there are only two places that make em, and there aint too many second hand turbo magnas getting around, so no cheap second hand manifolds lying around.
*piggyback/replacment ecu
*fuel pump
*braided lines, oil lines, whatevernot
*dyno tuning.

that would be BARE MIN.

Yikes!
/me would like to see where you could get a turbo setup for 4k.

the most basic of parts for the budget of setup.
*turbo
*manifolds (remember, there isnt any offtheshelf kits for us, so its custom manifolds, and there are only two places that make em, and there aint too many second hand turbo magnas getting around, so no cheap second hand manifolds lying around.
*piggyback/replacment ecu
*fuel pump
*braided lines, oil lines, whatevernot
*dyno tuning.

that would be BARE MIN.

hmm. you can go single turbo but, rite?, do you have to have braided lines? i didnt think it was a nessacary. Would something like a G-Ready E-Manage do the trick for the computer? and how much can you assume the manifold would cost.. cheers ben ;)

You can use a Greddy E-manage no probs. Dave from RPW is using an e-manage in his TT and is running almost 12s flat atm. I think tooslow is another e-manage customer?

Booya's got a big angry single turbo. :badgrin: but full replacement ECU.

hmm. you can go single turbo but, rite?, do you have to have braided lines? i didnt think it was a nessacary. Would something like a G-Ready E-Manage do the trick for the computer? and how much can you assume the manifold would cost.. cheers ben ;)


yep, single turbo with all the parts you could possibly replace - replaced :badgrin:

yes, emanage would do the trick, so would normal non braided fuel and pressure lines, but with a budget, you run risks and lower quality.

manifolds custom made, i dont think you'll find someone who'll do it for less then 2.5/2k very rock bottom.

then again, you get what you paid for :doubt:

ahhh.. ok, i didnt think a manifold would cost that much, i would of assumed 1/1.5k. I want to put a turbo on myne just for a little bit of extra grunt, but i dont want to go to far, the idea was to start of with a basic setup. But saying that i would want a good manifold as i know the bad sides of them (cracking etc). Ok, im going to buy the parts as i get the money (i dont earn much), now what would be a decent cheap turbo, like can i get a TD04 and fit that?
Sorry if i sound stupid but i have had 4 turbo cars but all of them have come out with turbos, so i havent had to go into this much detail before.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10144&page=2&pp=10

Should be enuf info on a basic setup.

your looking at AT LEAST $4000 for a very basic turbo setup

Hehe, thats where my good ol $1200 kit comes in :D

you can get 2nd hand sc $1000 pace maker headers $450 pullies@ belt say $200 a bit of pipe work $1000 and ecu then fiting tunning $2000 then you can about 50% more power and dont forget a new air filter

my turbo kit has come in at around $5500 - $6000

either way - supercharge or turbocharge, it's an improvement on horsepower.
Just depends wether or not you are willing to part with the money.

I got quoted for about $1500 - $2000 max for custom single turbo manifolds.
Mine has cost about $500 but only because all labour was free and I got all the parts cheap.

When buying parts though, have a good look around, you can save heaps by doin this.

Yikes!
manifolds (remember, there isnt any offtheshelf kits for us, so its custom manifolds, and there are only two places that make em, and there aint too many second hand turbo magnas getting around, so no cheap second hand manifolds lying around.
manifolds custom made, i dont think you'll find someone who'll do it for less then 2.5/2k very rock bottom.

then again, you get what you paid for

Hey BOOYA... get off yer arse, get a life, get out into the real world, get some skills, get some tools, get some experience. Go buy yourself a welder, make your own manifold. Until you've done this, you cannot inteligently comment on how cheap a job can be done, and what sort of results you can expect for your dollar.

:owned:

imagine the flaming if i had said that :D

yes, emanage would do the trick, so would normal non braided fuel and pressure lines, but with a budget, you run risks and lower quality.

why risks?

you can get 2nd hand sc $1000 pace maker headers $450 pullies@ belt say $200 a bit of pipe work $1000 and ecu then fiting tunning $2000 then you can about 50% more power and dont forget a new air filter


You say youse is S/C. How much in total did that cost to do?. and where would you pick up a second hand S/C from in good nick? The other gear is no big deal, but i dont know much about the S/C. Ummm doesnt this mean you have to take the A/C compressor off but? When i supercharged a mates lancer, we had to remove the compressor to do so. Is this the same with the magnas? Cheers guys

Hey BOOYA... get off yer arse, get a life, get out into the real world, get some skills, get some tools, get some experience. Go buy yourself a welder, make your own manifold. Until you've done this, you cannot inteligently comment on how cheap a job can be done, and what sort of results you can expect for your dollar.

with all do respect. i have a welder. i have a welding cert and my father owns a company where any part, piece and tool is readily available.

welding isnt just about tacking a few pieces of metal together. not every joe and so can understand how flow works, and some people would worry me if given the handle of a MIG or a TIG welder. its ok for you who may work with this kind of stuff all the time. but also remember, in this day and age, time is a killer, where people are asked to work longer, harder and for less wage.

for those who's never used a welder before, by the time you take a welding course, buy a welder, some scrap metal/real metal for your manifolds, some welding sticks, you'd alreay be at the one grand mark easily. so then you say well then your one grand in front right? you may be if your design your manifolds right, but if its wrong, back to the drawing board, another 200$ worth of steel and for someone who doesnt know what they're doing, a lot of frustration.

remember not everyone can fly a plane. not everone can do handstands for more then 10seconds. not everone can weld.

sure with time comes practice, and practice = perfection, but things dont always go to plan.

and for the record, i bought all my own steel, alloys. i planned, cut and welded the supports for the boot install. what i didnt weld is the actual tank, and the manifolds were welded using the pieces i suppled.

so mate, before you start mouthing off about DIY, its nice to know the background of your arguements.

BOoya

Well said booya, old mates comments about you were out of place...i get everything on my car done by professionals...why??? coz if i do it myself, my car will end up like all those run down piece of sh*t commodores on the streets that are f*cked coz the owner 'thinks' he knows what he is doing, when really he may be able to use a welder or angle grinder, but has no idea of how the car was setup and what needs to be done to the car to keep it in collaboration with the way it was designed.

But what do i know...iam a graphic/web designer :bowrofl:

why risks?
why risks?

why risks?


your right. there isnt any risks. just downsides. like your eyesight may dissapear if you dont wear the right helmet for your welding equiptment. or that a nasty 10c piece sized piece of slag may land on your leg and burn the f- outta you. you may also miss what your welding and welding someting on wrong.

you might get distracted, and arc out the wrong piece of metal, also your dog may be blind cos he's watching everthing your doing. your sister might distract you, you put down your tool and melt something.

you could also try use a angle grinder that has the wrong disk for cutting the metal your dealing with, thus making more mess, or you just might slip under pressure, slice your fingers off etc.

yes, i say there are no risks. just mishaps. mishaps that could of been avoided if you wernt trying to be a hero with a tool that you've never used in your life before for the sake of trying to "cost cut"... id imagine for someone who's never used a welder before, i wouldnt be surprised that their first project would cost more then getting one made up with a more superior design, better build quality, and a warrantee.

BOoya.

There is no doubting that someone with mechanical knowledge, skills, tools & time can save considerable money when it comes to modifications. Good for you.

But honestly i think the majority of us are in the position where we need or want someone qualified to do most of the work for us if it is something major like a turbo installation.

Therefore i think it is perfectly reasonable and correct of Booya and others to quote expensive and realistic prices when people enquire about mods.

Feel free to let us know how much you cheaper you can do it yourself but if someone is asking a general question and about price issues etc it is a pretty good indication that they won't be doing the work themselves.

booya i was talking about the braided lines for fluids. its all wank if u ask me. but i guess if u have the money u may as well. i couldn't justify it tho, its a un-nessisary cost

booya i was talking about the braided lines for fluids. its all wank if u ask me. but i guess if u have the money u may as well. i couldn't justify it tho, its a un-nessisary cost

Its not totally un-neccessary, its for CHICKS remember, just mention those braded fuel lines and the chicks will be on tap :badgrin: .

Also to add to the above articles, i didnt read them so it might have mentioned this. because a supercharger runs off the Cam it is giving a boost over the whole revrange,
Umm... they don't run off the cam.

super charger its always on the ready, waiting to go soon as you put your foot down... although also goin would be you fuel pretty quick :confused:

so supercharge bout bout 4-5 grand roughly????
you wouldnt beable to have extractors???

alot of boosters on here how many have done s/c setup????

++++
Greetings All.


booya i was talking about the braided lines for fluids. its all wank if u ask me. but i guess if u have the money u may as well. i couldn't justify it tho, its a un-nessisary cost
Oh come on TC...You wouldent want lines cracking and blowing from the added pressure...

My 2c,
--Tonba
++++

booya i was talking about the braided lines for fluids. its all wank if u ask me. but i guess if u have the money u may as well. i couldn't justify it tho, its a un-nessisary cost

when u start gettin serious and upgrade fuel system the pumps put the lines under a lot of pressure. On n/a if a line leaks the vacuum will still suck the fuel, with forced induction boost will force the fuel back, this means leaning out, detonation, dead engine :cry: .

Hey BOOYA... get off yer arse, get a life, get out into the real world, get some skills, get some tools, get some experience. Go buy yourself a welder, make your own manifold. Until you've done this, you cannot inteligently comment on how cheap a job can be done, and what sort of results you can expect for your dollar.

mate unless u work for midas or manta etc i doubt u have even done this yourself. And then u would be better just using an adaptor onto the stock manifold anyway, it would flow better because unless you have a bending machine your primary pipes would be kinkier than paris hilton!

your looking at AT LEAST $4000 for a very basic turbo setup

Yikes!
/me would like to see where you could get a turbo setup for 4k.

manifolds custom made, i dont think you'll find someone who'll do it for less then 2.5/2k very rock bottom.

Mine has cost about $500 but only because all labour was free and I got all the parts cheap.

...make your own manifold.
Mate, I'm just pointing out that things can be done, on a budget. I live in Townsville. This is considered a blue collared working town. People here are down to earth, willing to try, willing to lend a hand, and haven't had the world handed to them on a silver platter.

You say you can weld - good for you! Your dad has this and that - good on him. With all these tools, your welding cert, you still didn't have a go. So don't sit there saying you don't know how anyone could do things cheaper when you haven't tried.
If someone really wants to do something, and they can stick at it, then it can be done. You just simply don't have the need.

I live in Townsville. This is considered a blue collared working town. People here are down to earth, willing to try, willing to lend a hand, and haven't had the world handed to them on a silver platter.

Where as Booya lives in Alice Springs, and everyone knows that place is the Land of Opportunity! :bowrofl: :bowrofl: hehe

Where as Booya lives in Alice Springs, and everyone knows that place is the Land of Opportunity! :bowrofl: :bowrofl: hehe


your right on the ball there Brendan! :bowrofl: Long live Alice Springs - The Town of Opportunity! the gateway to the heart, and town where rivers no flow, but the VB cans flow to the tune of the wind :bowrofl:

++++
Greetings All.


Oh come on TC...You wouldent want lines cracking and blowing from the added pressure...

My 2c,
--Tonba
++++

You dont use cheap hose :doubt: and even the cheapest fuel hose is braided and can hold a good 80psi of fuel pressure. stuff i use can hold 120psi and it cost 7bucks a meter :confused:

when u start gettin serious and upgrade fuel system the pumps put the lines under a lot of pressure. On n/a if a line leaks the vacuum will still suck the fuel, with forced induction boost will force the fuel back, this means leaning out, detonation, dead engine :cry: .
braided lines still can leak :confused:


i would maybe use them on brakes and auto transmission where a VERY high hydrolic pressure is needed for them to work. Dont know if you's have ever seen but the cars running down the strip and the engines does a big bang of flames then goes away, this is when a tranny line bursts from the 200+psi of a auto hydrolics, and when compressed it is easy for the fluid to burn. thats why they bust into flames then totaly stop in half a second.

You dont use cheap hose :doubt: and even the cheapest fuel hose is braided and can hold a good 80psi of fuel pressure. stuff i use can hold 120psi and it cost 7bucks a meter :confused:


but you cant wank over ugly black/blue hoses :badgrin:

but seriously, yer, ok, you 'dont' need braided lines, but when you go into as much detail as i have, it would spoil the effect if i used what would be perceved as 'cheap' pressure lines. drag cars use braided lines, show cars use braided lines, i use braided lines, thats enought of a good reason to replace all your lines to shiney braided ones lol

You dont use cheap hose :doubt: and even the cheapest fuel hose is braided and can hold a good 80psi of fuel pressure. stuff i use can hold 120psi and it cost 7bucks a meter :confused:

thats fine if the hose is nice and new and keptaway from touching hot parts like exhaust manifold, its when they get old they swell, split or crack up, braided line is like added insurance.

but is your carby-turbo setup suckthrough or blow through and how much boost?

16psi blow thru, efi pressure. i use the same hose for oil/fuel/water and its 400deg stable and braided hose. my oil hoses run over the turbo, and it gets +370deg!

[QUOTE=
so supercharge bout bout 4-5 grand roughly????
you wouldnt beable to have extractors???

alot of boosters on here how many have done s/c setup????[/QUOTE]
you need extractors for a sc you have high flow air going in and it needs to get out
a sc is $3000 new then you need more stuff like ecu fuel reg fuel pump cai pod filter pipe and more so try $8000 start to finish

you really want big bore extractors, 1 5/8 or even 1 7/8 in primaries with a s/c, the holden 3.8V6 uses crap stock manifolds with the s/c and can not breathe.

You say youse is S/C. How much in total did that cost to do?. and where would you pick up a second hand S/C from in good nick? The other gear is no big deal, but i dont know much about the S/C. Ummm doesnt this mean you have to take the A/C compressor off but? When i supercharged a mates lancer, we had to remove the compressor to do so. Is this the same with the magnas? Cheers guys
mine is costing $8000 . in vic there is a US 2nd hand parts place in dandenong vic called eagle parts i think. they sell sc off of v8s that will go on a magna thats a side mount one.
i will not thats not lose my air con

Where as Booya lives in Alice Springs, and everyone knows that place is the Land of Opportunity!

Long live Alice Springs - The Town of Opportunity!


Name: Benjamin "Booya" ****as
Age: 18
Location: ALice Springs, N|T
Present Eucation/last few years: Finished school 1.5 year ago.. yr 12!! woot woo!
Employment: Been workin for my fathers company/holiday park resort, in the IT section mainly, administer the computers.
Current income: 620 per/wk clear.
Car: '96 TE V6 Manual Magna, GOLD, GT Wing,

Afforded car?: present from parents for finishing school on such a good note

I'm sorry, I stand corrected.. no opportunities there.

Was just watching the Mrs check out ebay, and I saw a GTO twin turbo 3.0L. Haven't ever known anyone with a GTO, so am not sure whether it would fit, but if it did, $1000 for a starter twin :shock: :shock: turbo isn't bad. Anyone know if it would fit in a '96/97?

easier to modify/create engine mounts i guess, but their is no fwd twin turbo motor so you would have to mount a 5speed or auto and then u have trouble because i assume the tranny and bellhousing wont bolt to the block

Check out the centrifugal superchargers on CAPA's site.
* GO a reco'd S/C
* No custom intake header - unlike roots type chargers (i.e. Eaton M-series)
* No custom exhaust header (for a turbo)
* Yes you can and SHOULD put extractors on
* Plumbing is pretty simple
* Piggy back ECU's are cheaper everyday
* keep the MAF/MAS

Just have to find somewhere to place the damn S/C. Thinking of running a shaft with pulley to the gearbox side of the engine and mounting there. Even BETTER for the plumbing.

CAI would be a piece of pie!

Whadayas reckon???

Was just watching the Mrs check out ebay, and I saw a GTO twin turbo 3.0L. Haven't ever known anyone with a GTO, so am not sure whether it would fit, but if it did, $1000 for a starter twin :shock: :shock: turbo isn't bad. Anyone know if it would fit in a '96/97?

would be a bolt in both are 6G72, aussie motor is SOHC, jap/US motor is mivec, those twin turbos are not factory though.

would be a bolt in both are 6G72, aussie motor is SOHC, jap/US motor is mivec, those twin turbos are not factory though.
No it wouldn't.

yes it would times a million! lol ,
nah seriously, why not? KB's mivec 3.0 was a drop in despite mitsub telling him no...are 3rd gen mounts different :confused:

mounts mean didly, if the block has the same bolt patturn on the tranny side, then who cares.. mounts can be made :)

mounts mean didly, if the block has the same bolt patturn on the tranny side, then who cares.. mounts can be made :)

the question was whether its a bolt in...
btw custom bellhousing adaptors can be made too, thats how toyota 5 speeds go into anything and everything.

yes it would times a million! lol ,
nah seriously, why not? KB's mivec 3.0 was a drop in despite mitsub telling him no...are 3rd gen mounts different :confused:
I'm talking straight transplant. The 2nd gen and 3rd gen engines are the opposite way around so stuff a) doesn't line up and b) mounts aren't right. Sure, anything coule be engineered with the time, knowledge and money but that's not a bolt up proposition. KB's was obviously simple from that point of view because it was essentially the same car with different engines.

And for the record. Killbilly doesn't have a Mivec engine. He has a DOHC engine. Big difference.

Big difference.

Why? both have two overhead cams, both a 3000cc i capacity and both are Mitsubishi's lol
The only difference is the mivec mechanism :P




Just being a smart ass :D

maybe he can get mivec twin profile cams to fit inside his journals, and the solenoid/switching mechanism from a mivec....? most aftermarket ecus including the greddy have the function to switch it at whatever rpm u set. :confused:

most aftermarket ecus including the greddy have the function to switch it at whatever rpm u set. :confused:

ohh i didnt know this.. so you can tune it to make the mivec cut in sooner or later then usual.. that'd be cool

if mivecs just like vtec then whats stopping you from just getting an aggresive cam to begine with and getting rid of mivec/vtec :confused: i bet honda's on race tracks dont use vtec, its a gimmic

++++
Greetings All.


if mivecs just like vtec then whats stopping you from just getting an aggresive cam to begine with and getting rid of mivec/vtec :confused: i bet honda's on race tracks dont use vtec, its a gimmic
Actually, Ive heard the F1 cars do...

Cheers,
--Tonba
++++

if mivecs just like vtec then whats stopping you from just getting an aggresive cam to begine with and getting rid of mivec/vtec :confused: i bet honda's on race tracks dont use vtec, its a gimmic

its basically a fancy word for variable valve timing, and the only reason F1 cars wouldnt use it is if it was banned. which i dont htink it is, so i am sure they use it.

and its not a gimmic, if it was why are so many car companies investing stupid amounts of money in it?

for racing its a gimmic, specialy low expenditure racing/street use. get a 1600cc engine, dual carbs/aftermarket ecu, cam and flown heads. and u have alot more power than a 1600cc vvt engine. u just cant use the car as easy in a carpark, which is 98% of the market now days

i dont think its a bad thing, but performance wize, its definatly nothing a tuff cam cant fix/do better

for racing its a gimmic, specialy low expenditure racing/street use. get a 1600cc engine, dual carbs/aftermarket ecu, cam and flown heads. and u have alot more power than a 1600cc vvt engine. u just cant use the car as easy in a carpark, which is 98% of the market now days

i dont think its a bad thing, but performance wize, its definatly nothing a tuff cam cant fix/do better

or you could do aftermarket ecu, cam and flown heads on a vvt engine and have even more power.. you cant compare a standard engine to a modified engine

maybe he can get mivec twin profile cams to fit inside his journals, and the solenoid/switching mechanism from a mivec....? most aftermarket ecus including the greddy have the function to switch it at whatever rpm u set. :confused:
Fat chance. The Mivec valve gear is a little tricky and is hydraulically actuated. Not wasy to replicate without the right hardware.


ohh i didnt know this.. so you can tune it to make the mivec cut in sooner or later then usual.. that'd be cool
Not that cool. There's guys with Mivec engines in Lancers and Mirages and they have fitted Mivec controllers and found that the switchover point is pretty much spot on. You have to remember that both cam profiles have their own differing torque graph so using the second profile isn't necessarily better.


its basically a fancy word for variable valve timing, and the only reason F1 cars wouldnt use it is if it was banned. which i dont htink it is, so i am sure they use it.

and its not a gimmic, if it was why are so many car companies investing stupid amounts of money in it?
Not really. Mivec and VTEC use the same principle. VVT is different and gay. It's also pretty much the same as the new Mivec stuff Australia is getting. It's a VVT engine with a Mivec badge :rant:

It's a VVT engine with a Mivec badge :rant:

Mivec, Vtec still vary valve timing so they are still varible valve engines.




i dont think its a bad thing, but performance wize, its definatly nothing a tuff cam cant fix/do better

Why not have that same tuff cam in a VTEC, but have the low range cam optimised for the LOW end, like that your producing peak performance throughout the rev range? lol

VTEC/MIVEC just gives the chance to run 2 cam profiles, doesn't mean you can't run aggressive cams or anything, with VTEC/MIVEC etc. you just get rid of the torque hole an aggressive cam creates :D

Mivec, Vtec still vary valve timing so they are still varible valve engines.
Sort of. It's more than just valve timing. Generally it's considered valve timing as it's open, close cycle can vary for duration, lift and overlap. But when compared to VVT, it's not the same. VVT is just advancment or retardation of time and Mivec and VTEC is much more than that. Mivec and VTEC also use inlet and outlet cams whereas Mitsu's crappier system is intake only.

Sort of. It's more than just valve timing. Generally it's considered valve timing as it's open, close cycle can vary for duration, lift and overlap. But when compared to VVT, it's not the same. VVT is just advancment or retardation of time and Mivec and VTEC is much more than that. Mivec and VTEC also use inlet and outlet cams whereas Mitsu's crappier system is intake only.

I never said Mivec and Vtec are JUST varible valve timing. And some econo vtecs also only vary the inlet cam. Are you sure the newer crappier MIVEC only varies inlet cam?, cuase there is only 1 cam!!, maybe they manipulate the lifters on the inlet valves???

And some econo vtecs also only vary the inlet cam.
Yeah, there's a couple of versions of VTEC. They just keep making it better.

Aren't the new engines DOHC?

Yeah, there's a couple of versions of VTEC. They just keep making it better.

Aren't the new engines DOHC?

If you are refering to the new 3.8 mivecs we are getting, no they are not DOHC, they imploy the same mivec setup used in the SOHC 2.4 mivecs found in cars like the new outlander :confused:

If you are refering to the new 3.8 mivecs we are getting, no they are not DOHC, they imploy the same mivec setup used in the SOHC 2.4 mivecs found in cars like the new outlander :confused:

193kw from the current 3.8L SOHC Mivec (as speculated, but now proven [concept ralliarts]). Imagine a DOHC!!

193kw from the current 3.8L SOHC Mivec (as speculated, but now proven [concept ralliarts]). Imagine a DOHC!!

While 193kW would be awsome, I doubt we will get that power figure in our versions, at least not at the start

While 193kW would be awsome, I doubt we will get that power figure in our versions, at least not at the start

according to both wheels and motor we're getting the isact same engine

according to both wheels and motor we're getting the isact same engine

Yes the exact same engine, but I doubt in the exact same state of tune as the 193kW Ralliart Concept (perhaps in a sports model later down the track), I'm banking on 170ish kW for the base versions of the replacment car.

PS. I'd love to get at least 1 sporty model with 190kW+, but at least for a start I doubt it will happen :cry:

well i did not know the mivec was a single cam setup. if that is so, then the probability of swapping those heads onto our blocks is much higher. the pic above looks like a very wide head so i would have thought dohc.
In fact it is starting to make sense that our ecu's are already programmed for mivec better than sohc, its always semed very strange how the motor just opens up suddenly at 3000rpm, now it makes sense if it was the same ecu for the mivec.

redav, it sounds like you have some familiarit with the mivec so it would be good if u explained your answers in a bit motre detail. If mivec is sohc and kb's engine is dohc thats an obvios reason it couldnt be adapted so u should have just said that, we cant read your mind. And did you by any chance notice where the dizzy was mounted, is it on the rear bank on the back end of motor like our cars? If u saw it with rocker cover off by any chance, how is the second profile activated? does the cam slide in its journals or is there a seperate switch device for each cylinder or valve?
btw, u said the intake runners are not much bigger than ours, but if the intake runners are just1/2 inch larger on each, then the ports would be also be increased as much and would easily flow an extra 60 kw n/a.

well i did not know the mivec was a single cam setup.
The new Mivec that we are getting is single cam related. The Mivec that was present in the Diamante 30M is DOHC.


redav, it sounds like you have some familiarit with the mivec so it would be good if u explained your answers in a bit motre detail.
A little. Not as much as I pretend to know. What did you want to know?

its always semed very strange how the motor just opens up suddenly at 3000rpm, now it makes sense if it was the same ecu for the mivec.


Thats just the the engine entering it's most efficient/powerful rev range. The cams are set for those revs, thats why in the late model tritons fitted with the 3.0 24v SOHC only produce somthing like 120ish kW and less torque than the Magnas, but both power and torque curves rise ealier in the rev range, this is because of the cam grind and ECU mapping.

I also noticed on our Tritons at work (24V SOHC 6G72) that they have 3 ignition coils, would there be any advantage of this setup compared to the distributer setup in the Magnas?

ahh ok, it gets more and more complicated. this all relates to the other thread as well,
i would have been pretty hopeful of swapping a sohc setup onto our blocks succesfully, u would expect oil, coolant, bolts to match, but much less likely for a dohc. the new sohc setup wont be an option because first of all there will be none around secondhand cheap, and second they will be set for 3.8 bore...
unless we can get pics of the face of the old dohc mivec heads to compare to our own, we might as well forget the idea.

unless we can get pics of the face of the old dohc mivec heads to compare to our own, we might as well forget the idea.
If it makes you feel better, the head gaskets that the DOHC Mivec 3.0 have the same part number as the SOHC head gaskets that we use on the 3.0. Can someone find out what the part number for a head gasket for a 3.5 is?

phonic, i get u there but dont u find the surge in power at 3000 is a bit sudden?

redav, that means it is definitely a goer. the next problem will be fitting the cam belt and tensioners then, and where the dizzy goes. Im going to look around for the 3.0 heads with the complete matching intake manifold via jap importers. hopefully find some cheap before i can take the car off the road, later next year. in the past when i have had only mild stage 1 cams on 6 cyls, they sucked fuel like V8, this way will allow good economy 90% of the time in traffic.

phonic, i get u there but dont u find the surge in power at 3000 is a bit sudden?

redav, that means it is definitely a goer. the next problem will be fitting the cam belt and tensioners then, and where the dizzy goes. Im going to look around for the 3.0 heads with the complete matching intake manifold via jap importers. hopefully find some cheap before i can take the car off the road, later next year. in the past when i have had only mild stage 1 cams on 6 cyls, they sucked fuel like V8, this way will allow good economy 90% of the time in traffic.

i take it your building up a new motor then? what are you planning mate?

also why bother taking your car off the road? just source a second hand V6 from a wreckers and build that motor up, and when its built put it in your car and sell the standard V6 you currently have.. that way your car has no down time.

Yes the exact same engine, but I doubt in the exact same state of tune as the 193kW Ralliart Concept (perhaps in a sports model later down the track), I'm banking on 170ish kW for the base versions of the replacment car.

PS. I'd love to get at least 1 sporty model with 190kW+, but at least for a start I doubt it will happen :cry:

oh sorry i didnt know you where talking about the ralliart motor, i thought you where talking about the normal engine that is in the US gallants, thats the one where getting..

redav, that means it is definitely a goer. the next problem will be fitting the cam belt and tensioners then, and where the dizzy goes. Im going to look around for the 3.0 heads with the complete matching intake manifold via jap importers. hopefully find some cheap before i can take the car off the road, later next year. in the past when i have had only mild stage 1 cams on 6 cyls, they sucked fuel like V8, this way will allow good economy 90% of the time in traffic.
Yeah, possibly. I'd do what RJL suggested and find another motor but then again, the Mivec and SOHC engines are very similar so probably not worth swapping a whole motor. Cam belt you would get from a 3000GT/GTO.

nah dont want to change motor, would then be easier just to get the whole mivec motor, maybe even a 3.8...mines only done 100'000km, and been serviced every 5000 and always warmed up b4 driving. im hoping id get the heads and all for under a grand delivered...will look into it anyway.

phonic, i get u there but dont u find the surge in power at 3000 is a bit sudden?


No not really, the MIVECS don't have some unique method of adding a surge of power, all the Mivec mechanism does is switch camshaft profiles at a preset rpm point, 1st cam profile would be optimised for the lower to mid rpm range and the 2nd cam profile would obviouslly be optimised for the mid to high rpm range, therefore giving a wider usable rpm band. :P

Picture taking off in our SOHC 3.0s, you hit about 3,000 rpm (the point the main power range of our cams start) and you feel a rush of power build up, with a mivec/vtec you would feel a second rush/wind of power as the motor switches to a second cam and that cam hits it's power range higher up in the revs :D

Adding onto my previous post, the problem with camshafts is that thay have a set rpm range of efficiency, so with systems like vtec/mivec you will feel a slight gap in between cam profiles. Varible valve timing systems like those fitted to some F1s (if not all) don't use cams and can therefore infinatlly vary the timing on the valves (and hit super high rpms without too much trouble :shock: ) to have one big powerband. They can pretty much set the valve timing to produce peak power thought the whole rev range (within limitations of the engine design). :P

nah dont want to change motor, would then be easier just to get the whole mivec motor, maybe even a 3.8...mines only done 100'000km, and been serviced every 5000 and always warmed up b4 driving. im hoping id get the heads and all for under a grand delivered...will look into it anyway.

now theres a point.. why wouldnt we just get the 3.8ltr mivecs out of the new gallants.. their mivecs arent they??

they start at 170 or 180kws or something.. all good

now theres a point.. why wouldnt we just get the 3.8ltr mivecs out of the new gallants.. their mivecs arent they??

they start at 170 or 180kws or something.. all good
They probably won't fit easily and they're not the same form of Mivec we're talking about in other threads. Apparently they're still SOHC. The Mivec we really want is the DOHC one. The new Mivec is the same as Toyota's VVT which changes the timing of the cam to advance or retard valve operation. It uses the same lift and duration. Real Mivec changes lift, open, close, duration and overlap.

just checked, the 3.8ltr engines in the new gallants are SOHC, no mivec. Produce 170kw.. probably not a very good investment if you already have the 3.5...

just checked, the 3.8ltr engines in the new gallants are SOHC, no mivec. Produce 170kw.. probably not a very good investment if you already have the 3.5...

pffft poor mans camry class mivec, this would explain why the Grandis 2.4 mivec I drove was so ordinary even tho it was only in traffic and i didnt get to rev it out. the real mivec is meant to be as good as honda VTEC. I drove an 89 Legend with the b27 2.7 V6 vtec. I nailed it from the lights in an 80 zone and it was still pulling hard in 1st gear at almost 9000rpm when i had to back off because it already hit about 90kmh :shock: your expecting it to change gear and it just keeps revving, awesome :D

phonic i know the mivec changes cam profiles but i wouldnt be surprised if the ecu hit a different map at the same time with greater fuel at least, if we have the same programming it would explain the surge you get on the magna at 3000...or my car at least.