right guys,

maybe information for those who have upgraded their front calipiers to the AWD setup or brembo's.

just an idea;

DBA make a 300mm rear disk to suit EVO 7/8. this is a direct swap with the magna rear setup. when you modifiy or change your front setup have you thought of putting your single piston caliper at the rear for better even braking on the rear wheels?

i know you will prolly have to modify the mounting for the caliper if you change it, but there is nothing stopping you from puttin your front caliper to the rear and updating the front calipers.

can anyone see any potential problems? i mean the handbrake shouldnt be a problem as its the actual disk we are changing not the hub.

DBA part number for the EVO 7 rear replacment is 4419 and they RRP for 335 each side (670 total)

any tech heads with any comments?

The main reason will be the handbrake. The rear caliper is specially designed with the inclusion of the handbrake mechanism.

That mechanism isn't present on your front caliper. :(

I will be fitting the brembo rears, even if I have to make a bracket. They just look too good :)

The main reason will be the handbrake. The rear caliper is specially designed with the inclusion of the handbrake mechanism.

That mechanism isn't present on your front caliper. :(

I will be fitting the brembo rears, even if I have to make a bracket. They just look too good :)

I'm pretty sure the rear caliper is stand-alone caliper, doesn't have any handbrake stuff attached.

Booya's idea could work, as long as the piston sizes are the same to keep the brake bias.
Might be fun, Booya, since you've got calipers sitting around, why don't you try bolting the front caliper to the rear and let us know.

The main reason will be the handbrake. The rear caliper is specially designed with the inclusion of the handbrake mechanism.

That mechanism isn't present on your front caliper. :(

I will be fitting the brembo rears, even if I have to make a bracket. They just look too good :)
the handbrake mechanism, is located within the rear disc, "the drum" the innerside of the disc, it's actuated seperatly, and is mechanical not hydraulic,

This is a posibility, however, you'd be upgrading from 1 single pistion caliper to another single piston caliper, you'd really need to roadtest the benifits, brakes really should not be fiddled with unless by a professional.

This is a posibility, however, you'd be upgrading from 1 single pistion caliper to another single piston caliper, you'd really need to roadtest the benifits, brakes really should not be fiddled with unless by a professional.

yes, but your upgrading to a larger disk + more pad area single piston ;)

thats what im getting at.

Is'nt the original front caliper designed for an original front disk?? Cant remember how big they were, was it 278mm?? Fitting 300mm disks to the back with a 1 spot caliper designed for a 278mm disk. I cant see that working. Also, as someone stated, it would probably shift the bias away from the front as you would now have a major jump in pad/disk contact area at the back.

Sounds altogether messy to me. But a rather lateral way of thinking I must give that to you Booya :D

Booya meant well for everyone; it's always good to throw ideas on the table for discussion.

I think it's just a tad bit over kill, maybe not for the booya gold beast, but certainly overkill for the mild modded NA magna.

hmmm... after further thinking, and a bit of extra study on the brake bias subject... i think its not a matter that i cant get it to work,but i think you'll need to install a brake bias controller to make sure the braking isnt out of factory specs.

ie, if the OEM setup is 75% to the front, then get a bias controller to make sure the percentage is still 75% to the front.

does that work? ?

Possibly, but what exactly determines "brake bias". Is is based on the actual size of brake pads and rotors i.e. mechanical. Or is it determined hydraulically through your brake booster and master cyclinder?? :confused: On closer thinking if it is hydraulic, then it should'nt matter what size brakes you had at all?? I'm confused now lol

guys, brake bias is controlled by the master cylinder, if unsure, go to howstuffworks to find out more...

If you're just increasing the size of the pad and rotor without touching the friction co-ef of the pad material, you still have the same bias.

then why go bigger you may ask? well the reason for that is you get rid of more heat quicker. Which leads me back to the 'overkill factor', you won't really need that big of rotor for the rear of your mildly modded magna, being FWD, go as big as you like at the front, but not much point doing that at the rear as you don't have any driving force, hence why do you need such a big surface to get ride of heat for? I forgot to mention, braking is just the transfer of kinetic energy into heat, the more energy you can transfer the quicker you slow down without locking the wheels! hehe...

on the positive side, with a rear rotor that big on a FWD car, you can probably use the cheapest street pads around and you still wouldn't over heat it.

i think my car is screaming for brakes!!!

(ive got em, just need to install em :badgrin: )

so yer.... but it was an idea for those who have upgraded their front ones, and have a set of calipers lying around effectively doing nothing.

cos the setup i have is

6p front, with 4p rear on those EVO 300mm rotors.

should be good :badgrin:

This may be a possable coversion however any modification to the mounting will require an engineers certificate.

Many are looking at the caliper/disk what about the master cylinder. I highly doubt that the std unit would be big enough to power the 4 spot fronts or the front on the rear or all them altogether.

In the new year I will be looking at mastercylinder upgrades, will post up here what I findout

This may be a possable coversion however any modification to the mounting will require an engineers certificate.

Many are looking at the caliper/disk what about the master cylinder. I highly doubt that the std unit would be big enough to power the 4 spot fronts or the front on the rear or all them altogether.

In the new year I will be looking at mastercylinder upgrades, will post up here what I findout


yes, engineers cert definately! i plan to get the whole of booya certified anyway,so no dramas there.

master cylinders. ive been talking to MMAL and the insider i have who works in the ralliart division in victoria, said we (magna) use the same master cylinder as the EVO V8. so... what that would assume is that anything the evo can upgrade (use this example that AP racing make a 6pison front and large 4piston rear) and if this upgrade is ment to be a direct bolt onto the std EVO system, and if we use the same system the EVO uses, then by rights, we can do the same... one would assume :doubt: then again, Mitsubishi dont know how to make cars, and no doubt we are in for a shock more then likely :rant:

Brake bias is 65 - 35

Has anyone who has upgraded their FWD Magna front brakes to the AWD disc/caliper feel it is well worth it. Tha Magna brakes are good, but when they start getting hot, they fade really quickly i have noticed.

booya what u r suggesting will definitely work without upsetting bias. In fact it will likely correct bias for a car that has only upgraded to decent front and left the pathetic micro stock rear brake on. but i would not buy new evo rears, they might not fit iside 15" rim. and yes could be overkill.
Instead if u have upgraded the front to approx 300 mm and 2 piston, it makes sense to use your old front disc and caliper being 20mm smaller and single piston onto the rear. you can always get a 4 channel controller which is in line after the master cylinder to fine tune bias.
the downside u would expect would be no more handbrake, tho some have mentioned the handbrake is independent of the rear caliper.. :confused:
adapting calipers that dont mate up to stub axle is usually as simple as a backing plate with 4 holes. it needs to be 1cm thick and have no welds or joins in it to be legal.

Has anyone who has upgraded their FWD Magna front brakes to the AWD disc/caliper feel it is well worth it. Tha Magna brakes are good, but when they start getting hot, they fade really quickly i have noticed.
Base model Magna brakes aren't good. I've got the AWD's front and rear, jowet and revelstone2 have AWD's / Ralliart's on the front. Awesome increase in stopping ability.

++++
Greetings All.

So what you guys are saying, Is that the guys with ralliarts (for example), can buy GTO fron brake hardware, then put the Ralliart Spec brakes to the rear, and attach the newer larger brakes to the front...Effectivly have 4p 314mm Fronts and 2p 294mm Rears?

Cheers,
--Tonba
++++

++++
Greetings All.

So what you guys are saying, Is that the guys with ralliarts (for example), can buy GTO fron brake hardware, then put the Ralliart Spec brakes to the rear, and attach the newer larger brakes to the front...Effectivly have 4p 314mm Fronts and 2p 294mm Rears?

Cheers,
--Tonba
++++


theory is a wonderful way of looking at things :D - yes, in theory it would work :D

++++
Greetings All.

So what you guys are saying, Is that the guys with ralliarts (for example), can buy GTO fron brake hardware, then put the Ralliart Spec brakes to the rear, and attach the newer larger brakes to the front...Effectivly have 4p 314mm Fronts and 2p 294mm Rears?

Cheers,
--Tonba
++++

no reason u could not do that, but it would be beyond the capacity of stock master cylinder to fill all those extra pistons nicely. kind of defeats the purpose if your brake pedal feels like a sponge and goes half way to the floor before it starts to slow down...u want it high and hard.
and if u have abs u want to keep it working, thats the part i would not try mess around with myself. with that much clamping power it would be very easy to lock wheels and get a little sideways:D or a lot sideways :shock: at speed.

but it would be beyond the capacity of stock master cylinder to fill all those extra pistons nicely.
Not always. Comes down to surface area of the pistons. If it's the same area between them then it's fine. If it's slightly more it may be okay. The stock master cylinder is apparently good for 4 pot Brembos so it's rather interesting.

Not always. Comes down to surface area of the pistons. If it's the same area between them then it's fine. If it's slightly more it may be okay. The stock master cylinder is apparently good for 4 pot Brembos so it's rather interesting.

true, like the beutiful little 3 or 4 pot motorbike front calipers that suck less fluid than a single pot car caliper, but tonba had in mind a total of 12 pots!

Has anyone who has upgraded their FWD Magna front brakes to the AWD disc/caliper feel it is well worth it. Tha Magna brakes are good, but when they start getting hot, they fade really quickly i have noticed. Well I have a 4WD..
And I installed a set of EVO VI calipers (4 pot front, 2 pot rear)
The front/rear rotors are EVO VIII 320mm / 300mm
At the last cruise on Sunday I took another member for a quick spin... and then a quicker stop.
It was the first real time I had SLAMMED my foot hard on the brakes since installing them.
Lets just say we were BOTH impressed.. the brakes were cold and nearly put us throgh the wind shield.
I have ABS which helps alot as well.
Today it was raining on the way home... :D
Traveling at 60km+ I decided to do a rapid braking manuver :)
I slowed to a complet stop in what seemed like 5m... no skid no sideways slidding... just STOPPED dead still.
Again I cannot describe how good an propper upgrade to your brakes is.

I have tried to do mine properly.. ie I used a complete replacement set.. fron/rear I upgraded the calipers and the rotors...
I will be keeping an eye on the mastercylinder.. but at the moment the peddle is firm.
Personaly what Booya is saying .. MAY work... but for my and my passengers piece of mind I would not be "experimenting with fronts on backs.
Nor would I want to use a bolt on modification plate...
I think that the upgrade I have done is one of the best brake options ... for value for money for a direct swap.
Ben's 6 spot calipers will be unreal... As long as the pads can work at cold temps.. and not need race track conditions to get up and running.

All the best

Haydn