Hey peoples, just wondering what the symptoms of an aircon needing a regas are?
My dads TJ has a strong aircon. My TE altera is struggling. It was 35 yesterday. Jumped in teh car (70 degrees in the cabin) I drove for an hour wiht the aircon on and fan at full speed, yet the car never dropped below 28 degrees inside. Wondering whether a regas will fix this or if it's just par for the course with the TE?? Appreciate your knowledge and wisdom here.

Give it a Regas, see how it goes, 99 bux at Profix isnt it?

Firstly, check that the air con compressor is actually engaging. Start the engine and switch the air on and off with the vent fan running (slow is fine). When the air con is switched on, the radiator fans should start and the compressor clutch should engage. You'll hear the compressor start, and I think you should be able to see it.

Failing that, go to an air con mechanic. A Magna is a "modern" car as far as air con is concerned, and it may just need a re-gas.

This may sound silly but make sure the heater is off.
It should defineatly get colder than that, get a regass and leak check done(must be done in QLD). Get a dye put in with gas to check for slow leaks the tech will check for major leaks straight after regassing. A few days after this check all the fittings for dye colour indicating a leak.
Change your receiver dryer at the same time if it's not been done in the last year or so. It can be a bit pricey $20-$80 non genuine depends on type used ie. basic or has built in pressure switch.
Car Air con systems DO lose gas, the rubber hoses are porous and a SMALL amount of leakage per year is normal it is actualy a quoted figure/specification as percentage per year.

If your gas level gets too low the low press switch will prevent the compressor clutch engaging.

This info comes from a aircon tech friend who advised me to have the above done. He did not do the job as he couldn't geographicaly, so there was no money to be made.

This may sound silly but make sure the heater is off.
It should defineatly get colder than that, get a regass and leak check done(must be done in QLD). Get a dye put in with gas to check for slow leaks the tech will check for major leaks straight after regassing. A few days after this check all the fittings for dye colour indicating a leak.
Change your receiver dryer at the same time if it's not been done in the last year or so. It can be a bit pricey $20-$80 non genuine depends on type used ie. basic or has built in pressure switch.
Car Air con systems DO lose gas, the rubber hoses are porous and a SMALL amount of leakage per year is normal it is actualy a quoted figure/specification as percentage per year.

If your gas level gets too low the low press switch will prevent the compressor clutch engaging.

This info comes from a aircon tech friend who advised me to have the above done. He did not do the job as he couldn't geographicaly, so there was no money to be made.

All of the above is correct, However if the airconditioner is not run during the winter from time to time it will lose most of the gas from the compressor shaft seal.
This needs the oil in the system to keep the seal moist so it can seal on the shaft.
If you check the reciver/drier, next to the battery there is a small clear sight glass on the top, If you can see bubbles in there while the airconditioner is running it is short of gas, Thus not getting cold enough

the number 1 cause of the aircon not doing its job as good as before is actually the wear and tear of the expansion valve. if you don't believe me try just getting it re-gased and see if it works. you might prob notice SOME improvement but not much. this expansion valve normally only works well for about 2 years. after which, if you want the good old airconditioning power that your car used to have when new, you'd really have to get a new expansion valve fitted.

.. if you want the good old airconditioning power that your car used to have when new, you'd really have to get a new expansion valve fitted.

how much?

I can honestly say that the aircon power has gradually faded over the 12 months I've had the car. Personally I run the aircon over winter as I use it in conjunction with the windshield defogger that's not to say that the previous owner did not do this though. I'll have a chat to my friendly local mechanic (free advice :)) before I do anything else. Be nice to have aircon for summer though!

Give it a Regas, see how it goes, 99 bux at Profix isnt it?
dont bother from what weve been told they just put used 2nd hand gas in your system and theyve had alot of complants

gday all,

the a/c system shouldnt lose any gas unless the o rings and seals shrink, become worn, or something has a hole in it... dunno about the " hose is porrous " story.. the a/c system on a car works like a fridge.. we dont need to regas our fridges.. oil in the system is there to lubricate seals and keep the compressor pumping.. check all the fittings and see if u can see an " oil sweat ".. if so.. u may have a minor leak there.. and gas could be escaping! being an early magna, the front seal on the compressor might be shot, not uncommon.. check for an oil leak there! otherwise, take it to an a/c specialist, they can top up the gas level, and inspect for leaks! btw, looking for bubbles in the sight glass on the reciever drier is a waste of time on R134a systems.. hence most now have black paint over the glass, or no glass at all! still, maybe other probs too.. lilke no power to the compressor, faulty clutch on compressor, blocked tx (expansion) valve, etc! good luck

how much?

i paid about $300 to get the valve replaced, with gas r134-a replaced and system deodorised.

i paid about $300 to get the valve replaced, with gas r134-a replaced and system deodorised.


was that at a dealer?

nope it was at an aircon specialist. these guys' main trade are in 4WD equipment though. mitsu could do it as well definitely, but wouldn't have a clue how much they charge. ring around. i don't even know if i paid a good price that time

nope it was at an aircon specialist. these guys' main trade are in 4WD equipment though. mitsu could do it as well definitely, but wouldn't have a clue how much they charge. ring around. i don't even know if i paid a good price that time

Well here's the thing - my car turns 3 years old at Xmas and I was wanting to get a check done on the Aircon as preventative maintenance - but what the heck am I asking for? It works fine I just want to make sure it stays working fine... so do I book for a receiver change and gas check?

Well here's the thing - my car turns 3 years old at Xmas and I was wanting to get a check done on the Aircon as preventative maintenance - but what the heck am I asking for? It works fine I just want to make sure it stays working fine... so do I book for a receiver change and gas check?

well the aircon system is just one of those things it's better not to bother too much about. fix it only when it's broken. there's nothing much that can be done for preventive maintenance anyway, if any at all. if you go in to mechanic and tell them you want a service for your aircon system, they will recommend a whole list of bull**** that is not necessary. save the money dude... it's hard to come by :D or at least, spend it something more worthwhile :badgrin:

my non-Magna is old. 1991. Has the old CFC gas in it. Still cools the car, but prob not like new.

What's the cost of filling with new gas? non-CFC.

my non-Magna is old. 1991. Has the old CFC gas in it. Still cools the car, but prob not like new.

What's the cost of filling with new gas? non-CFC.

Well having said mine was fine... yesterday I had three people in the car at midday and it was HOT here and the aircon was struggling - it didn't used to be like that so I'm gonna book it for a receiver change and check.

re converting old CFC cars - about 7 years ago we did a convo on an old Rover - it involved new pipes, new gas of course, a receiver and dryer AND a new pump. Cost about $1300 all up from memory - that was done at an aircon place

Whre are you from?

I know of a great A/C service bloke in Melbourne.

$60 approx for re-gas, $30 for gas top up but re-gas recomended as gas and oil in system get impurities in them. Filter should be done atleast every 4-5 years. If not done then the impuraties in the system will eat your condenser and cooling core in dash like an acid.

Gas will eventually totally leak away over time. A/C Systems are alowed to loose a certain amount of gas per year. It starts to become noticable round the 6 - 8 year mark which a TE is around now. My KE wasnt getting as cold as normal and i had a re-gas, new filter and dye added for round $160. Now the thing is that cold i cant have the vents on my face anymore.
Ideally the best way to maintain your a/c running at its best is to never turn it off. Thta is the best thing for it but obviously fuel and power suffer a little. They should be run for atleast 10 mins straight atleast once a week minimum.
All the new 5 and 7 series BM's and some of the new Mercs dont give you the option to turn them off. They runn all the time and compensate with the heater to get the right temp. The only time they go off is if the pedal is pushed to the floor and they turn off for max power. This is because it is the best thing for the A/C System. The only thing that will pack up eventually in an a/c system if run all the time is the compressor but studies have shown that this is around the 300,000km mark.

The Australian standard for cooling temp of an a/c is it has to be atleast 4 - 6deg C or under. My Ke was running at 6 deg before re-gas. After, it was down to 0.9 deg which is nearly freezing.

Anyone recommend a trustworthy aircon service centre in Adelaide? Preferably north eastern? I'm going to get this checked out this week. I'm dying in my car!

Whre are you from?

I know of a great A/C service bloke in Melbourne.

$60 approx for re-gas, $30 for gas top up but re-gas recomended as gas and oil in system get impurities in them. Filter should be done atleast every 4-5 years. If not done then the impuraties in the system will eat your condenser and cooling core in dash like an acid.

Gas will eventually totally leak away over time. A/C Systems are alowed to loose a certain amount of gas per year. It starts to become noticable round the 6 - 8 year mark which a TE is around now. My KE wasnt getting as cold as normal and i had a re-gas, new filter and dye added for round $160. Now the thing is that cold i cant have the vents on my face anymore.
Ideally the best way to maintain your a/c running at its best is to never turn it off. Thta is the best thing for it but obviously fuel and power suffer a little. They should be run for atleast 10 mins straight atleast once a week minimum.
All the new 5 and 7 series BM's and some of the new Mercs dont give you the option to turn them off. They runn all the time and compensate with the heater to get the right temp. The only time they go off is if the pedal is pushed to the floor and they turn off for max power. This is because it is the best thing for the A/C System. The only thing that will pack up eventually in an a/c system if run all the time is the compressor but studies have shown that this is around the 300,000km mark.

The Australian standard for cooling temp of an a/c is it has to be atleast 4deg C or under. My Ke was running at 6 deg before re-gas. After, it was down to 0.9 deg which is nearly freezing.

I appreciate your reply and understand the comments you made - I'm in Sydney BTW. 'Unfortunately' I have a warranty on the car that covers major components like the compressor and the evaporator, so servicing of things that affect such components, such as a regas or a change of receiver/dryer, has to go back to the dealer. So far this has been a very good deal for me, the dealer charges market prices or less for things like scheduled servicing and already the alternator was replaced free, and the brakes machined and new pads fitted for $0 under the warranty arrangements.

"The Australian standard for cooling temp of an a/c is it has to be atleast 4deg C or under. My Ke was running at 6 deg before re-gas. After, it was down to 0.9 deg which is nearly freezing"


dunno about the stats you got, or where u got them from.. is the 6 degrees celcius at idle, or at a certain rpm? and 0.9 degrees celcius from an a/c system? i reckon that would frost up the system... and australian standards 4 degrees?? i must have stuck temp probes in about 100 different brand new cars, and i dont think any of them were ever at 4 degrees at 2000 rpm.. prob might get to that mark on a freezing cold day, doing 100 klm an hour! the temp output of an a/c system varies on lots of things.. at idle, wont be as cold.. on really hot days.. those little compressors just cant pump that hard and the hot thick air doesnt help when its hitting the condensor!

Hey there Black Diamond.

Both temps were taken on the same day at around 24 deg C. One just before re-gas and one after, both with cooling set to max with fan set at slowest and both with rpm at around 2500 while at a stand still.

To be fair, it wasnt constantly at .9 deg. It varies as the compressor cuts in and out. it got to .9 just before the compressor cut out again and then it headed back to round the 5 to 6 deg mark before it came back on. On the average setting, it was showing round 3.6 dec C.

Obviously on a 40 deg + day the a/c wont get that cold. Thats just common sense. even the heat in your dash board would make a huge difference.

Also, very rarely do the a/c systems in cars work their best when new. When they are installed and gassed in the factory, they are just done in volume amounts and are usually rushed. I have a brand new KJ 2 and that a/c doesnt work any where near as well as in my re-gassed KE because it is a rushed process at the plant. For instance, the system should be vacumed air tight for at laeast an hour before gassing. I can tell you now that the factory wouldnt do it for any where near that long. Also, the gas levels have to be nearly perfect. Too little or Too much will have a huge effect on temp. Both resulting in the system not getting cold enough. Just some small examples where it can vary. If you get an expert to do it who knows how to do it properley and is prepared to take the time then you will be amazed at the difference it makes and how much colder it is than from factory.

You'll find that a lot of new cars don't have factory aircon. I'm not sure about Mitsubishi, but it's very common on Fords to have dealer fitted air. This is where some problems occur. Dealers hire monkeys or subcontract the work......
As for the factory installations being suspect...well, doubt that. Everything is made brand new, then sealed with plugs. The dash subassembly has sealed plugs on it, the compressor sealed plugs, the receiiver drier sealed plugs, all the lines the same. The dash is installed, with the sealed limes coming out of the firewall, compressor is installed with plugs on it too. Everything else is fitted, then all the plugs are removed and the system is now airtight.
A very quick vacuum at this point is all that is needed. And the gas can be very accurately weighed. The factory knows through testing exactly how much gas is needed for teh volume of a particular system, and the gas is added. Factory service manuals specify you add a certain amount of gas by weight, and it's the most accurate way.
You may get the odd car that has a stuffup, but it's not in the factory's interest to do things any other way than correctly. It's just as quick as any other way, and it guarantees a good installation.
I would get your car looked at if it's suspect and fairly new.

Regards, Andrew.

I appreciate your reply and understand the comments you made - I'm in Sydney BTW. 'Unfortunately' I have a warranty on the car that covers major components like the compressor and the evaporator, so servicing of things that affect such components, such as a regas or a change of receiver/dryer, has to go back to the dealer. So far this has been a very good deal for me, the dealer charges market prices or less for things like scheduled servicing and already the alternator was replaced free, and the brakes machined and new pads fitted for $0 under the warranty arrangements.

Well an end to the saga and something of a comment on dealers. I booked it at the dealer, they checked the aircon mechanically, did some kind of leak and pressure test and declared there was nothing wrong with it (remember this is a Toyota dealer as the car came from them with its warranty). I asked about getting regassing done anyway and the reply was - its only 3 years old - the gas won't need changing for another 2 years. Strange! Maybe a mitsu dealer would have determined differently. Meh Bleh...

At any rate the flatmate then came home with a flyer card advertising that Toptune in North Sydney are now offering specialist aircon services etc - the deal was a complete system check and regas for $129 so I though WTF it can't get worse, so I booked with them for the service. (www.toptune.com.au) The difference after this service was amazing. I now have plenty of cooling available in hot weather, even in traffic stalls. Only problem is that NOW the car is uncomfortably cold in milder weather or when driving at night! Chalk and cheese between before and after - amazing.

So I guess the moral is that the dealers are a bit clueless about aircon and the specialists seem to have the goods!

Sorry for threadmine but I might as well put my question in here rather than a new thread....

Anyway, my aircon on my TF seems to be struggling a little... It still pumps out cold air, but the stream isnt strong at all and still doesnt cool the car down (Went for a drive the other day for an hour and a bit with my family with aircon on max and car was still pretty hot when we arrived...) It feels cold on my feet etc as the driver, but the aircon will not cool down the air in the car... I can turn the aircon off after it being on max cold for a while and the air feels just as hot as it was before, Usually (In our commo), the car would atleast stay cold for a little while after the aircon has been switched off....

So will I just need a regass? I dont know if the weak flow of air coming from the ac is related or not... (Could be fans?, do the later model magna's have better fans?))??
What you guys think?

Also noticed my aircon went "CHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" when I turned off the car today.... Does it always make that sound???

Will hopefully get it in to an aircon place in the next few weeks and see what they think...

Sounds like the problem I had in my TH, air was coming out and it was coldish but piss weak airflow(also was coming out at my feet a bit when it was on the face setting).
Turned out to be a broken clip on the air box behind the dash, is the dial which selects where it comes out at all either hardish(resists a bit) or really really easy to turn to the different positions?

I had mine done in Melb at the mitsu dealer, wasnt cheap like $300 or so as they had to remove the whole dash etc to get to it, but it fixed it and was 200% better.

Food for thought anyway mate.

Ja, like above, could mean that maybe a cable is broken, or something along the line where you want it to to full face but stays at feet. To see if it needs a re-gas will take them like 2 minutes when they hook up the gauges, but I'd say you have an under dash problem there.

it could be a blocked evapourator, I cleaned mine and got my mate to do a regas, aircon worked much better. As for the coming out at feet, it could be a crack in a hose, but probably the selector knob as said above

My daughter's car had cr*p A/C when we bought it.

Took it to a place in Castle Hill.
they had it for 3 hours.


Have a fully auto bit of kit, plug the car on, turn on and it goes through a programmed cycle.
Pulled out all the gas and oil. basically only 50% in system
Pressure tested, re-oiled and re-gassed.
After can freeze the proverbial balls onto the brass monkey.


Ditto with my AWD before Xmas. Difference was night to day.

Don't forget to run the a/c once a week to keep the seals lubricated.


Gerry

How much did the re-gas cost you?

spud100 - Can I ask how much they charged to do it?
I think the rada needs it done too, its not crap but my other magnas a/c were heaps better, think it needs the same.

Sounds like the problem I had in my TH, air was coming out and it was coldish but piss weak airflow(also was coming out at my feet a bit when it was on the face setting).
Turned out to be a broken clip on the air box behind the dash, is the dial which selects where it comes out at all either hardish(resists a bit) or really really easy to turn to the different positions?

I had mine done in Melb at the mitsu dealer, wasnt cheap like $300 or so as they had to remove the whole dash etc to get to it, but it fixed it and was 200% better.

Food for thought anyway mate.

The main dial which controls fan speed feels fine (Not too hard, not too soft... just normal)....

One of the centre vents has the little switch that wont go up more than half way, but that would only stop the flow for that particular vent so I think that may be an unrelated problem..

$300! Ouch.... Hope mine isnt going to cost that much :(

So should I be going to a Mitsu dealer for this problem? Or an aircon place?? (Or both..?)

it could be a blocked evapourator, I cleaned mine and got my mate to do a regas, aircon worked much better. As for the coming out at feet, it could be a crack in a hose, but probably the selector knob as said above

Is the evap hard to get to? Would a complete noob be able to clean it?

The air coming out onto my feet isnt an issue as this was with the setting on feet and face (Or whatever it is). If its just on face no air will be coming out the bottom...

Guys,
$149 from memory.
When I get home I'll try and look up the details and let you know where the place is.

Gerry

the evap is not able to be done legally by a noob (as you cant vent ac gas into atmospere),

you need to get all the gas out of the system, (get a fridgey to do it)
then disconnect the evap (under the glovebox)
then clean it with special cleaning stuff, (it was either acidic or basic, I think it was basic though....)
the replace o-rings that are easily accessable, and replace seals from around evap box (little peices of foam)
then re install and
re gas. get fridgey to do it.

About 45 mins labour, and 45 mins to regas.

My evapourator had lots of leaves and gunk on it from being parked under trees all the time., After i cleaned it, the ac was much more powerfull air flow wise, and much much colder.

other problem is that it could be leaking under your dash (mine had this also)
It leakes out of the foam seals around the evap box, because they get old and fall apart (if you ever see little bits of foam come out your vents, that where its from.)

Or your blower unit could be worn out.

As promised.
I used Castle Hill Tyres.
1-15 Carrington Road
Castle Hill
NSW
Phone is 9634 6399

Mention their current Service and Re-Gas offer for $98.

I was most impressed by them.
You will need to book of course.

Gerry

Guys, just so all know, the third gen have a common issue with the vent selectors, this is located on the RHS of the heater box, the arms tend to get "tangled" and then you will find that even though the selector feels ok the vents are not moving.

Can be easilly fixed as i have done for countless people by simply slipping the pastic bits back together, they are not very complicated and once you get down under there and have a look you will see what I mean

Guys, just so all know, the third gen have a common issue with the vent selectors, this is located on the RHS of the heater box, the arms tend to get "tangled" and then you will find that even though the selector feels ok the vents are not moving.

Can be easilly fixed as i have done for countless people by simply slipping the pastic bits back together, they are not very complicated and once you get down under there and have a look you will see what I mean

Ahhh cheers, but where exactly is the heater box?? Lol

I've also noticed that alot more air comes Out the vents when the aircon is on recycle (or whatever it is) compaired to when it's sucking in the air from outside the car? Does this mean my evaporator is blocked? Ihave a huge leaf and pollon buildup on the bottom of my front window whenever I get into my car (as it's parked under trees..) I'm guessing this isn't good for the aircon... Lol

its normal for more air to come out when its on recycle. DEPENDS on how much you mean by much more though.
Mine increases flow by about 20 %

Exact same issue as you Rory, when i installed my stereo, i broke the right clip to the upper vents (that was like 3 yrs ago) and this summer its so piss weak flow. Chilly on my feet, but up top is stuff all! Really wanna get it sorted this summer! So do you guys think this could be a multitude of issues or what? The clip and maybe the system needs a regas, and maybe the condensor is blocked? lol how would i go about fixing the clip in the dash?
also car is 7yrs old this year, regas time?

and madmagna, would appreciate pics :)