Yeah, you read it right, I was sitting here with some time to kill, I had the tools, so I decided to just do the bloody thing. Before I say anything else I am sorry to the members who I said i would do it with but this is how I am... have the means, will do! ...but saying that, I would be more than happy to help out anyone who wants to do it. At least I was a guinea pig eh? (do you forgive me now?) and I am more than happy to lend the Ozito dremmel clone to make it cheaper (as in potentially free!!)

I am happy to answer any questions about it but I intend to write up a DIY for dummies guide on how to do it. I have a dremmel type tool with a goose neck which did a great job. It took me 1.5 hours and I only lost one knuckle! lol

Oh I suppose I better tell you what has changed, well I am definite it has made a difference, off stand still it is noticable, going up hill it is noticeable and I tell you something... I used to have a VH with 253 V8 and they had 4-barrel carbies and if you needed to give it more foot the secondary chambers would kick in, and you could feel and hear the difference... well this is almost similar, a little more power (not necessarily speed but I feel some lost power in second might have been gained, especially up hill) and gruntier sounding again! some may think I am hearing things ,and wanting it to be better but I am sure this was worth doing. For $40 I believe it was anyway!!

Before
http://neilk.customer.netspace.net.au/tbbefore.jpg
AFTER - looks a little rough but I smoothed it out a bit with 1200 wet.
http://neilk.customer.netspace.net.au/tbafter.jpg

Nice mate!

Did you take the T/B off the car to do it? How hard is that job? I've got one here to install and I'd like to do it myself but have no idea how complicated the job is or if I need any more tools.

Nice mate!

Did you take the T/B off the car to do it? How hard is that job? I've got one here to install and I'd like to do it myself but have no idea how complicated the job is or if I need any more tools.
Yeah I took the TB off, it was easier than I expected apart from that stupid metal clip which holds one of the electrical plugs on.. then I used the wooden handle of a meat tenderiser jammed in the butterfly to keep it open while I did it lol

I will write up a page or 2 asap... but in the mean time... the tools I used were:

Philips head Screwdriver - for removing air filter assy components
Stubby Philips head Screwdriver - for the hard to get screws (if you have any (which I did))
Flat Pliers - for removing hose fasteners (don't use long nosed like I did, I couldn't find anything better)
Flat Precision Screwdriver - for removing that very annoying metal clip
12mm Socket/wratchet and extender - for removing sercuring bolts on the TB.
Dremmel or similar tool I got Ozito brand with all the extras for $40... did the job fine, equivalent equipment (not quality) i could have been looking at around $150+
rounded Dremmel bits - These wear down faster than I expected... I went through 2 of them and I actually feel I could take more off even so I would recommend having more spares
Dremmel Goose neck - for easier handling (if you have it but not necessary)

http://neilk.customer.netspace.net.au/tbtools.jpg

do u have to do the hole barrel up to the butterfly? top and bottom?

do u have to do the hole barrel up to the butterfly? top and bottom?
Before I reply, I am not an expert ;)

If you mean the total surface area down the barrel then no, that would be oversizing the throttle body (wouldn't it?) which I am not even going to go near, otherwise...

The biggest lip section was on the bottom which you can see quite clearly in the photos, this lip gets smaller the closer you get to the mid point for the butterfly (it tapers), then there is a much smaller lip at the top which you cant see in the pic. This lip is much smaller and I felt there was more of a risk doing potential damage here so i only took the sharp edge off it

This is a really poor pic I just knocked up of what I did essentially (it is exaggerated)
1. Top left - the TB as it was stock
2. Top right - the areas I needed to change
3. Bottom Left - Roughly the outcome after the work
4. Bottom Right - A front side idea of the intensity of the work

http://neilk.customer.netspace.net.au/tbdiag.jpg

Great work mate! :D

Great work mate! :D
Cheers, every little bit helps I guess.

Does anybody know the reason for the stupid lip in our TB's??? other than to sell more Dremels!

Looks to me like they had a whole heap of Butterflies that were too small - so instead of waste them, they made the TB smaller to match :nuts: .

Stupid TBs and their stupid lips..... I'll show them a thing or two. I'll show them ALL :rant:

This looks somewhat less complicated than I though!! But if I was to ask a question that might sound a little stupid like say. What does the throttle body do? would you still reckomend I do it myself????

This looks somewhat less complicated than I though!! But if I was to ask a question that might sound a little stupid like say. What does the throttle body do? would you still reckomend I do it myself????
All is fair in love and war...

This extract was taken from RPW's site...

"RPW Single Throttle Body Upgrades
What is a throttle Body - what does it do?
The throttle body is what controls the volume of air entering into the engine and is located at the beginning of the intake manifold at the start of the plenum chamber. From there it is distributed down the four "Runners" to the cylinder head. The size of the throttle body directly affects the volume of air entering the vehicle and as such, can have dramatic effects on throttle response, acceleration, torque and overall horsepower. The TPS switch is usually located on one end of the unit and on the other end is the throttle cable. The Mitsubishi / Proton / Hyundai units generally also have an idle speed control motor (ISC unit) on the bottem half of the throttle body with choke water hoses to raise / lower the idle speed when cold and when items like the air conditioning etc kick in. There is also normally two other adjustments - a air bypass idle speed screw which allows you to raise / lower the base line idle speed and the butterflyh stop adjustment which adjusts the point where the butterfly is in its closed position and stops it from jamming."
http://www.rpw.com.au/Products/Intake%20Systems/Single%20TB.htm

Hey I don't know if I want to recommend that anyone does it themselves but I did it, and it wasn't as hard as I thought, it only cost me $40 and 1.5 hours of my life... I am sure if you slip you could do a bit of mischief but if you have a steady hand all should be good. I am glad I did it so if that helps ;) As i said I will try to get this page up and running of how I did it as I took plenty of pics

so all thats involved really is grinding down that lip (top and bottom?) so that its flush with the rest of the throttle body?

so all thats involved really is grinding down that lip (top and bottom?) so that its flush with the rest of the throttle body?
umm well, I had no instructions so it was basically my interpretation of what essentially was required. but no not to the rest of the TB, It is still important to have a rise there, actually I would say it is critical from what i can tell, it is a matter of freeing up the flow of air over the lip so it is a matter of smoothing it out if you like, to reduce the amount of restriction as you can possibly manage without damaging the TB, Butterfly or seal of the closed position. Have another look at my crappy picture, it might explain it better than I can in words. :redface:

The lip is there for two reasons. 1) to close off the butterfly completely at idle so that idle is controlled by the ISC etc. 2)to enable a smooth transition of airflow from idle to light throttle opening. Don't remove it completely. Also there are other restrictions behind the butterfly that can be smoothed out.

Hey Neil can u do mine next week? ;)

hehehe

...Also there are other restrictions behind the butterfly that can be smoothed out.
Yeah, i noticed this. Might tackle it another day. I was strapped for time.

Hey Neil can u do mine next week? ;)

hehehe
As long as you can lower my car...no worries ;) he he, hey I am running on next to no sleep, do you really want to take that risk lol you might find that I end up redesigning the thing...... accidently!

DEAL! do my TB and i will sit in ay boot

DEAL! do my TB and i will sit in ay boot
Don't know if I want you screaming and squealing in my boot, my stereo doesn't go up that loud lol

Well I don't know why, but i decided to do this page and sacrifice sleep... hey, I have to get up in three hours for a 16 hour shift what the hell am I doing?!?!? :nuts:

Anyway, here is my Throttle body walk-thru page... please note the disclaimer!!

Hope it helps! Oh and no i don't know the technical name for half the stuff I yanked off today, but meh, job got done ok.

My Throttle Body Page (http://neilk.customer.netspace.net.au/hiflowtb/throttle.htm)

alltho i do believe what your sayin hyperTF :P
im still confused on how takin/sanding a 1-3?mm lip off makes a improvement any who as its not really improving the amount of air flow as the butterfly and the area around the butterfly remains the same so yer?
im just interested in really findin out how smoothing the lip makes a difference at all

any way good work:thumbsup:

alltho i do believe what your sayin hyperTF :P
im still confused on how takin/sanding a 1-3?mm lip off makes a improvement any who as its not really improving the amount of air flow as the butterfly and the area around the butterfly remains the same so yer?
im just interested in really findin out how smoothing the lip makes a difference at all

any way good work:thumbsup:
I guess there might be a certain amount of turbulence before the butterfly which might disrupt an even flow of air through the barrel leading into the plenum. Having that steep lip there, surely has to hamper direct flow. I too have pondered over your same thoughts but I figured that if RPW stand by them (like em or not) and others here have done it and say it works, it just sounds like there must be some thing there that works.

I really do feel a gain and I have just started reading this thread again (link below) and it sounds very similar to what i am experiencing. I don't have the technical back ground to back up my work or what I am saying with any theories. I guess all I can do is share.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10801

p.s. I know you are only asking a question and not trying to shoot me down.. I just wish I had the answers, I am just a keen modder with no expertise :redface: I hope someone else might be able to throw some light on the subject... anyway I have slightly reworded my page so as not to give too many false hopes to others. Cheers for the feedback :)

p.s. I know you are only asking a question and not trying to shoot me down.. I just wish I had the answers, I am just a keen modder with no expertise :redface: I hope someone else might be able to throw some light on the subject... anyway I have slightly reworded my page so as not to give too many false hopes to others. Cheers for the feedback :)
hehe yer cool id hope ya didnt feel i was just puzzled on how that really makes a notasable difference
im fairly tempted to try this out on my car just cos i can and to see/feel the difference
but reading that link you gave hyperTF helps a little bit and gav and a few others have tryed explaneing how it works and all but i think it one of thos Physics’ things where u really have to be nerd to fully work out how it makes that difference :P

but i dunno i guess it one of thos try for yours self to work out

was there any difference in sound as the air flows differently??

i keep goin to do this but i really cbf at all haha

I'd like to throw in my own pet theory why opening up the tb works : The cars computer is generally programmed to give a certain amount of enrichment during acceleration in response to airflow and the tps , so basically when I plant the gas the computer looks into its records(look up mode) and say we need that much fuel to be safe , of course machining out the tb you get more air in earlier potentially leaning out the mixtures which usually means a bit more power cause the factory computer is programmed to run a bit rich anyways, once in cruise closed loop mode takes care of the rest .Of course similar result can be obtained by changing the fuel map.

It makes a difference because the lip that's removed means that the throttle body is effectively opened more than when the lip was there. Putting your foot down more achieves an almost identical result. It wouldn't make much of a difference high rpm. Definately not something that would be noticeable on a dyno.

Most of the people like it because it makes it more responsive to throttle applications. It's not actually increasing low rpm torque.

It makes a difference because the lip that's removed means that the throttle body is effectively opened more than when the lip was there. Putting your foot down more achieves an almost identical result. It wouldn't make much of a difference high rpm. Definately not something that would be noticeable on a dyno.

Most of the people like it because it makes it more responsive to throttle applications. It's not actually increasing low rpm torque.

I agree with redav, grinding the stepup to the butterfly down mostlly increases airflow at low throtle applications (same as stepping on the accelerator more). But I still think that flow is slightlly improved at higher rpm, simply due to less restriction (don't know if it would be picked up on a dyno) :D

i would of thought it would have still helped at hi rpm too as the air is going in alot smoother with less turb :nuts:

i would of thought it would have still helped at hi rpm too as the air is going in alot smoother with less turb :nuts:
Maybe but if a dyno can vary 5HP with a back to back run, this sort of a change isn't quantifiable.

Maybe but if a dyno can vary 5HP with a back to back run, this sort of a change isn't quantifiable.


Heh, yee, True. Hence I'm not going to yap about the improvements of CAI with bellmouth forcefeeding. It does help, but pointless to "prove" it in a dyno.

HiFlo TB. Think of it as a percentage change. When engine is idling, TB is closed. STD TB would require fair amount of gas pedal pressing, before the airflow increases - due to the restrictive step there. Once the step is taken off (HiFlo TB) and smoothened, the effect of same amount of pedal press allows more air. I'm not talking about WOT, but a slight press just to accelerate gently (yes, some drivers do that!!!). That's where the difference is the biggest. On WOT, the increase in total diameter/size of the TB chamber and amount of air as percent is so little, that is debatable if anyone can detect it. Hey, can one tell the difference between 160 and 162 kW...?????
So, why is the step there? Think, for what kind of drivers was/is Magna designed? Cardigans! With STD TB, one can have pretty shaky and trembling legs and still not make the car jerk and jump…. heheheheheh :bowrofl:
Low end torque increase? Hard to say, but in my 3.0 Auto I can cruise up hill with 1300 RPM on 4. Gear. With STD TB, it would have changed down to 3. way earlier, before allowing the RPM to go that low – and it also rumbles nicely then. The car is using some 10% less gasoline with HiFlo – once I learned to drive it and feather the gas pedal.
I reckon it was a very good mod!

Oh, BTW HyperTF. Very nice TB job :cool:

Heh, yee, True. Hence I'm not going to yap about the improvements of CAI with bellmouth forcefeeding. It does help, but pointless to "prove" it in a dyno.

HiFlo TB. Think of it as a percentage change. When engine is idling, TB is closed. STD TB would require fair amount of gas pedal pressing, before the airflow increases - due to the restrictive step there. Once the step is taken off (HiFlo TB) and smoothened, the effect of same amount of pedal press allows more air. I'm not talking about WOT, but a slight press just to accelerate gently (yes, some drivers do that!!!). That's where the difference is the biggest. On WOT, the increase in total diameter/size of the TB chamber and amount of air as percent is so little, that is debatable if anyone can detect it. Hey, can one tell the difference between 160 and 162 kW...?????
So, why is the step there? Think, for what kind of drivers was/is Magna designed? Cardigans! With STD TB, one can have pretty shaky and trembling legs and still not make the car jerk and jump…. heheheheheh :bowrofl:
Low end torque increase? Hard to say, but in my 3.0 Auto I can cruise up hill with 1300 RPM on 4. Gear. With STD TB, it would have changed down to 3. way earlier, before allowing the RPM to go that low – and it also rumbles nicely then. The car is using some 10% less gasoline with HiFlo – once I learned to drive it and feather the gas pedal.
I reckon it was a very good mod!

Oh, BTW HyperTF. Very nice TB job :cool:

Amen Brother!

I have to laugh, since im 17 and have done this to my car with alot less care/patience ect.

It did take me ages but its as easy as grinding the lip to nothing, ON BOTH SIDES

I dont see the point of only doing one side, at all.