Finally i have got everything in my car i want:

JVC Mp3 HU
Front Pioneer 6" splits
Rear Pioneer 6x9's
12" Kicker sub & amp

Iam pretty happy with how it sounds.....2 more things i need to do.....

(1) Sound deadening....the spoiler rattles like and mofo....as with the boot and rear bumper.

(2) The tweeters for the front splits.....i dunno where to put the suckers.....

I'll get some pics up sometime on the weekend :)

(2) The tweeters for the front splits.....i dunno where to put the suckers.....


see this thread

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12125

Guys, I always get asked where tweeters should be placed for best performance. This is the answer.

Okay, lets all think about staging for a second. You don't go to a concert and sit with your back towards the band right? And admit it - we'd all like to be right in front and center of the band on stage true? And you'd also like to be at the right height to - like you were on the actual stage right in front of them listening. This is the imaginary image we try and capture inside cars today when we position tweeters in vehicles. Getting this is not just a simple matter of slapping them in just anywhere either.

The problem with mounting tweeters up high (e.g. on the sail area on the door) is this:
Think about the position of your ears in relation to the tweeters. One speaker is belting the high pitch tunes out about two feet from your right ear where as the left tweeter is triple that distance away. The stage has no choice but to be right out the right window. Sheer laws of physics govern this fact. Now if you place the tweeters down in the kick panels then the right speaker distance is about three feet and the left speaker is about three and a half. The problem is not eradicated but it becomes a lot less noticeable as the distance separation is reduced.

Now obviously the tweeters cannot be placed anywhere where they fire straight into ones feet so you have to be very careful about their placement on both sides and the more often than not this results in them being mounted very high in the kick panel, quite often out of sight like mine are because they're so far up under the dash.

The next question people ask is this; isn't the stage going to be low?
The answer is not so much to do with the physical tweeter location but the power level they receive. If you have sufficient power going to each tweeter from a high quality amplifier then your tweeters will not only fill out the stage 'height' nicely but the entire front cabin of the car. That said though, serious competitors utilise ambient tweeters up high (these are much quieter than the primary tweeters however) to lift the stage a little to head height from chest height that usually exists.

And someone is bound to mention time alignment - they always do.
The biggest problem with time alignment is this; the better you make your side sound (and you can get it absolutely perfect), the more your passenger suffers. Think about it - it time delays the right side speaker so both signal paths reach your ears at the same time. The problem is that the passenger has the reverse problem to you so as you side gets closer to being the same side to side, theirs get worse and worse.

So how does one get the stage right in real world terms?
At the end of the day you just have to play around a bit (and sometimes it can take up to four hours or so) to get the tweeter placement just right to achieve a nice stage 'width' , 'height' and 'depth'. Get yourself a nice big blob of blue-tac. Stick the tweeter onto a panel somewhere and grab a song with powerful female vocals (a strong female voice is generally considered best for stage testing). Close your eyes and imagine you're at the concert. Now listen to where she is coming from. Is she singing right in front of you? Is she off to the left a tad or right? Simple move the tweeter a few inches in a direction and have another listen. How is the image? Can you hear where all the band members are exactly? How is the depth? Does the drummer sound like he is behind the other musicians? Keep doing this until you get the image dead center or just off to the left a little bit but remember to take a rest every fifteen minutes to let your ears normalize. If you attempt staging for hours your ears tend to 'hallucinate' and give false readings.

Oh and Neosaber, I can send you some deadening if you need some mate. :)

Fhrx - you have probably noticed the 3rd gen magnas just have a wad of carpet in the kick panels with nothing solid to mount tweaters on to. Have you done any magna tweater installs that you can share? Did you knock up some fancy custom fibreglass gizmo to put down there, or get around the problem some other way?

In addition to fhrx's comments, Your ears aren't as sensitive for judging height. We have evolved to judge horizontal locations, as our ears are on the side of our head. So even though your tweets are down low, stage seems to be right in front of you still.

You can flush mount your tweeters by cutting into the kicks. I just screwed straight into mine. Most tweeter holders have room for a screw to go through. Pretty easy to do, Screw the plate on, Drill a hole through one of the holes in the plate for the wire to run through, and clip in the speakers.

I think the best position if you had the right equipment would be your main tweeters in the kicks as deep as possible firing directlty at the opposite head rest without anything in the line of sight) and then ambient tweeters mounted either in the stock locations (stock tweeter holders are ~$14 each from mitsu) or on the dash. If they are on the dash they should not be 'bounced' off the glass though. As you will hear the sound from the tweeter and then the reflection from the glass.
Tweeters are very directional, so should be pointed at you as much as possible. So ambient tweeters should also be fired at the opposite person usually on a custom mount

Ambient tweeters for those who don't know, have very little power running through them, barely enough to hear them. They are there to raise the stage height.
Of course your midbass drivers should also be angled as much as practically possible to hit your ears. Stock 3rd gen locations have a slight angle already

Deadening is so what i need, eberything vibrates..the girls i take for a ride luv it :P

Sound awesome from outside the car lol....butnot professional....

Heres one I prepared earlier... Stinger Roadkill inside and out.
Don't forget to add some weight to ur rods by covering them with duct tape, and stop that rattling door handle with an elastic band.
Mdf any service holes. (don't forget to paint them first as your door gets pretty wet inside)
A nice flush mounted mdf baffle will be a nice sturdy spot to mount your woofer
Door handles come in handy for rollers :)
Also use acoustic tiles behind ur speaker to stop any nasty reflections and cancellations

Peace

Tim

What's holding the MDF in the service holes?

How do u stop the spoiler from vibrating like a 25inch dildo?

What's holding the MDF in the service holes?
Clean up the door with turps or grease remover, then use heaps of gaffa tape.
From the inside of the door cover the hole, then cover the outside with gaffa tape, then put the mdf down, then cover the outside again with gaffa. Then clean with turps or grease remover again before applying Sound dd. I'll make a tutorial in a few weeks when im on holidays maybe for those who are interested.
It is very important to seal off the service holes to separate the speakers energy. Otherwise you'll get cancellation from the front wave of the speakers and the rear wave of the speaker.
It is not too important how solidly the mdf is mounted or how thick it is. The sound dd makes it very sturdy indeed.

Deadening work a treat anyway. No rattles at all from doors, just clean bass.
I still have to deaden my boot lid. I have all the gear just need to find the time.

Dont have a spoiler mate so wouldnt be able to tell you. Wouldn't be too hard im sure. Just put foam etc in b/w any rattling objects and increase the weight of any panels/skin that are resonating. U can use proper deadening, or flashtac, deadening paint etc... can you take the spolier off easily? What's rattling exactly?

Speaking of vibrations...

Whats the worst thing you can do when installing some audio gear in a rush......

Yup, drop a screw into a weird cavity above the sub boxes and below the rear 6x9's...


Brpt Brpt Brpt Brpt Brpt Brpt

It sounds like a popcorn machine


:(

I know what im fixing next saturday :rant:

Finally i have got everything in my car i want:

JVC Mp3 HU
Front Pioneer 6" splits
Rear Pioneer 6x9's
12" Kicker sub & amp

Iam pretty happy with how it sounds.....2 more things i need to do.....

(1) Sound deadening....the spoiler rattles like and mofo....as with the boot and rear bumper.

(2) The tweeters for the front splits.....i dunno where to put the suckers.....

I'll get some pics up sometime on the weekend :)

I put mine in the upper areas of my door, just put a hole in and tight fit, sounds good iv got Alphine type S

g'day, what model sub and amp did you get?

Heres some more pics I took re: filling up those gaping service holes. Eventually both panels were covered with gaffa tape before I deadened it.
Notice the shape on the mdf, this is to allow for the crossmember that holds the armrest. And the handle/lock rods.... Doesnt matter if it's not perfect, the deadener makes it very solid indeed.
One panel is painted black, then I realised the black paint in the spray can was expensive stuff, so just used mission brown for the other one, This adds 5 or 6 db's at least. ;)

Enjoi