Hi my second Magna\commodore thread, but anyway magna TH\TJ auto 3.5 versus Commodore VS V6 auto exec who would win? Believe it or not they actually weigh about the same and have very similar power outputs, one with a lovely refined engine\transmission the other with a 'Briggs and Stratton' engine and transmission that still has grunt, FWD puts more KW onto the road than RWD. I know this is a Magna site but what does everyone think?
The reason I am posting these threads is because I like both of them and am confused, really the only thing I like about the commodore is the RWD, commodores are like A***holes everybody has one.

Im a commodore man myself and the magna has it all over a vs...

Hi my second Magna\commodore thread, but anyway magna TH\TJ auto 3.5 versus Commodore VS V6 auto exec who would win? Believe it or not they actually weigh about the same and have very similar power outputs, one with a lovely refined engine\transmission the other with a 'Briggs and Stratton' engine and transmission that still has grunt, FWD puts more KW onto the road than RWD. I know this is a Magna site but what does everyone think?
The reason I am posting these threads is because I like both of them and am confused, really the only thing I like about the commodore is the RWD, commodores are like A***holes everybody has one.

if your going to buy a magna wait for a 3.5 manual to come up!

if you do get the manual forget about VS V6 auto's, have more fun scarin the sh*t out of manual VS SS and anythin similar.

i have a pretty much stock TH 3.5 manual and i'm tellin ya they go bloody hard, lower with nice rims and they look damn sexy!

The ecotech is a piece of sh*t. having owned a VR and had extensive use of a VT+ at work - I'd have no quarms about going up against an ecotech powered commodore in my magna, but those buick(sp) motors in the VR were weapons - or atleast the felt a hell of a lot quicker than any of the later bommadores!

Yeah the 3.5 auto will more thank likely beat the VS. My 3.0L altera had trouble keeping up with a mates VS Berlina but that car was a freak. The VRX works it into the ground, he's got nothing on me now lol

I've beaten a few VS's in my auto 3ltr TF, not sure if they where manual or auto tho.

I got my 3.0L auto ass wooped by a turbo/supercharged VS SS.....it was a manual and had a rather loud BOV. :doubt:

even a VY has got nothin on magna 3.5, standing starts are appauling, and overtaking is downright dangerous

mate of mine has a vs exec and we've run eachother a few times. Easy win. Would be a tad closer if i was auto but not enough for the vs to win.

even a VY has got nothin on magna 3.5, standing starts are appauling, and overtaking is downright dangerous
The VY is fat and slow, too heavy like my VX, a VS (1395kg) is probably lighter than a magna, even a manual 3.0 gen3 magna will destroy any normally aspirated V6 commodore auto from VN to VY let alone what a 3.5 manual magna would do to any V6 commodore, that's if the magna driver could actually see where he is going through all the tyre smoke from his front wheels, but I am talking only bog stock autos no mods, chips, mufflers.
In closing I myself even as a holden driver must admit when you weigh up the technology of the magna 3.5 auto and the superior dyno kw's from FWD over RWD the magna must win, but I've driven both and bog stock it would have to be best out of three races, still probably the magna, it can actually breath above 5000 rpm. I tried this same thread on a holden site and most agreed the magna would win and some said depends on the individual car, it goes to show that even as a holden site a lot of them are quite broad minded, I have found the Ford sites at times to be the worst for canning other makes. Someone said earlier in this thread that they had a fast VR 3.8 commodore, I to have seen a stock VR auto blow the door handles off of a 5 litre V8, for some reason some them really fly.

basically the commodore will have more low down urge, so it will beat the magna off the line, however the magna will then catch it back up and by 100km/h the two would be about even, with the magna possibly slightly in the lead, magna would then win the race to 400m.

What i just said is based on a race between a VT commodore and a magna, VS's are around 200kg's lighter so the race would be much closer with possibly the commodore with the nose in front. But alot depends on variables, are they both autos?? what condition is the cars in?? how much talant does the driver have??

If your talking about a VS then by now the conditions their in would range from quite good, to absolutely ****house, would really come down to a car by car comparison, couldnt really put a blanket over all VS's and say a magna would win, cos its not necessarily true

Thanks for your reply, you are dead right, there are so many variables, and you provided an open minded answer, I think a Magna 3.5 auto would clean up a VT (too heavy) but a VS auto and a Magna 3.5 auto both in similar condition would be close, up top the magna would be far superior and 400m. The holden could never match the Magna's refinement and quality, that's a comparison which would never be debated. :cool:

There is a thread going on right now in street commodores which is identical.
Surprisingly most think the magna would win.
see link: http://www.streetcommodores.com/forum_3/showthread.php?t=45269&highlight=magna

There is a thread going on right now in street commodores which is identical.
Surprisingly most think the magna would win.
see link: http://www.streetcommodores.com/forum_3/showthread.php?t=45269&highlight=magna

I just signed up to that forum...god iam going to have some fun.....

I just signed up to that forum...god iam going to have some fun.....

The reason Magna 3.5 has become a strong contender in the Ford Holden battles is because they were the first locally available six cylinder automatic sedan which could actually compete and sometimes whip the auto 6's from holden and ford, until recently other Japanese mekers have not produced an everyday 4 door sedan NA and automatic which can kick arse in an area where Ford and Holden have always dominated and competed with each other, the Magna has really gone somewhere where no other jap manufacter has, that is right into holden and Ford territory, engines which are NA, auto trans (for the average person, not manual boy racer style) and have real torque, yes these forums are fun.
Remember how gutsy the 1999 Toyota Camry was with a manual, but in an Automatic it was not in the same company as a falcon or commodore, no torque, in spite of their excellent engine :cool:

As stated in the other thread, a 3.5 can take the 3.8 ecotechs - piece of crap they are too.

As stated in the other thread, a 3.5 can take the 3.8 ecotechs - piece of crap they are too.

A friend of mine has an old VS wagon as a sh*t hack work horse, it's quite good, it's done heaps of Km and goes like hell and is surprisingly economical and actually quite smooth and quiet believe it or not; reliable as well as cheap to fix, but refined it is not, it is no Magna gen 3, but as a work and towing hack it is great.

if your going to buy a magna wait for a 3.5 manual to come up!

if you do get the manual forget about VS V6 auto's, have more fun scarin the sh*t out of manual VS SS and anythin similar.

i have a pretty much stock TH 3.5 manual and i'm tellin ya they go bloody hard, lower with nice rims and they look damn sexy!

I know how fast manual magnas are, but for academic interest I am comparing 2 stock (fleet type) everyday autos without the 'jugs and buckets'.....'Mum's Taxi', if you get my drift. :cool:

The ecotech is a piece of sh*t. having owned a VR and had extensive use of a VT+ at work - I'd have no quarms about going up against an ecotech powered commodore in my magna, but those buick(sp) motors in the VR were weapons - or atleast the felt a hell of a lot quicker than any of the later bommadores!

The VR's were quite responsive, the VS's had a softer more gradual response due to old ladies complaining about the neck snapping throttle response off idle which was worse (or better depending on which way you look at it) in the series 1 VN's.

In my modded TH against my mate in his VS(new VU motor, POD, dumped on 18's and some port matching 152hp atw)
0-100ks very even
haha after 100ks cya, floged him every time

Some people are delusional...

Some people are delusional...

Who is being delusional ? the magna drivers? the commodore VS drivers? Some perhaps, or me for starting this thread? Or is this directed at the author of the previous post about the TH dragging off the hotted up VS, I don't know, maybe it did, the TH does go hard, but the VS sounded like it had some work to,and in spite of the 'briggs and stratton' engine I've seen some quick VS V6 autos to. It is an interesting deviation from the usual Holden vs Ford stuff and hats off to mitsubishi for making a car that is more than a threat to the traditional big aussie sixes. Give me a rear wheel drive VRX and that would be the perfect car for me.... albiet with the loss off KW's onto the road over the FWD configuration, but the idea of a sideways VRX appeals to me, must be mid life crisis, a presciption for viagra, a 20 year old girl friend, leave the kids at home and a RWD VRX and make it a red one......just joking :D Hope my wife doesn't read this :redface:

Some of those Street Commodore Forum users.

the magna should win, i used to have a 94 saab v6 with 125kw, and that could beat a vs comm by about a bonnet length, both were autos

Some of those Street Commodore Forum users.

I know what you mean SLO3L, some people are narrow minded and impolite, the worst I've seen is on Ford vs Holden site forums, I call it the battle of the taxis, whilst there are many good open minded people with nice cars on these forums some think that their commy or falcon will clean up a Mc Claren F1, it is similar to a debate about football teams, I am a boxer\martial artist and there is a forum Bruce Lee vs Ali or Mike Tyson and it goes for pages but finalizes with Boxing match Tyson by KO and street fight no rules Bruce Lee which sounds about right to me, when I was 18 I had a Sigma and thought it was the ants pants, really it was a dreadful car, no power, no economy and burnt oil.
What car do you drive SLO3L ? Is it a 3rd gen TE\TF, nice cars they are to.
P.S. I am the guilty culprit who started the Magna 3.5 vs commodore 3.8 VS thread, but it was interesting reading.

Just today i had a drag with a VS Commodore (don't know if it was auto or man) and beat it relativley easy (i have a tippy). After we got to 140 i was about 2 car lengths in front and he took off a little quicker then me so i'd say i did alright. But i am getting the Ralliart dyno'd shortly becuase i'm not convinced i have 180KW at the flywheel.

After we got to 140 i was about 2 car lengths in front

was this a 5L? I thought the Ralliart was only slower than the GTO in a straight line, or I think i read something to that effect when the ralliart came out. Would have thought you would have absolutly demolished it.

Just today i had a drag with a VS Commodore (don't know if it was auto or man) and beat it relativley easy (i have a tippy). After we got to 140 i was about 2 car lengths in front and he took off a little quicker then me so i'd say i did alright. But i am getting the Ralliart dyno'd shortly becuase i'm not convinced i have 180KW at the flywheel.

Mate, if you have a Ralliart the VS was doing well to have even stayed on the same road, if yours is 180kw the VS must have been a manual,modified maybe a V8 or both, or he sneakingly let one of your tyres down when you weren't looking, the only thing that would have been stopping you taking off quicker than him would have been your wheel spin, a manual ralliart is probably in skyline R33 territory, yours was a tippy 5 speed?

was this a 5L? I thought the Ralliart was only slower than the GTO in a straight line, or I think i read something to that effect when the ralliart came out. Would have thought you would have absolutly demolished it.

I'm certain it was a 6 cylinder but don't know if any work was done to it. I would of thought my car would of done better (i have PULP too) which is why i want to know the KW at the wheels.

I would like to do some mods to acheive around 195KW at the flywheel so any suggestions to get another 15kW? I have been reading about Powerchip but who knows!

To be honest you don't feel much difference between a Sports/VRX and the Ralliart. I have driven them all...

Mate, if you have a Ralliart the VS was doing well to have even stayed on the same road, if yours is 180kw the VS must have been modified maybe a V8 or he sneakingly let one of your tyres down when you weren't looking, the only thing that would have been stopping you taking off quicker than him would have been your wheel spin.

Please don't forget i have an Auto... If i had a manual then i'm certain i would of been way in front. His quicker take off was my delayed action, not the cars.. Decided to drag at the last second.

I'm certain it was a 6 cylinder but don't know if any work was done to it. I would of thought my car would of done better (i have PULP too) which is why i want to know the KW at the wheels.

I would like to do some mods to acheive around 195KW at the flywheel so any suggestions to get another 15kW? I have been reading about Powerchip but who knows!

To be honest you don't feel much difference between a Sports/VRX and the Ralliart. I have driven them all...

I've heard that the sports and ralliart go pretty similar with the ralliart leading just; the VS may have been super charged they push some impressive numbers when supercharged, that poor asthmatic ecotec needs something to help it breath.

I've heard that the sports and ralliart go pretty similar with the ralliart leading just.

Yes. I think the difference between 163Kw and 180Kw is barely noticable in real world driving. Mitsubishi "hyped" up he fact that it's got 180Kw but if it still can't pull away from a near identical car nearly 20Kw's less then why bother. I think it is dissapointing but shiit happens. Next car = V8 or Turbo...

PS - sorry for hijacking this thread....

Please don't forget i have an Auto... If i had a manual then i'm certain i would of been way in front. His quicker take off was my delayed action, not the cars.. Decided to drag at the last second.

Know what you mean, delayed action, it puts you at a major disadvantage even with the better performing car those prescious seconds are hard to make up, it's hard work, a 3.5 magna got me like that in my VX and I couldn't pull him in and I don't race above 100 in a 100 zone, he would have been hard to catch, he was younger than me, no kids maybe, less will to live.

I just signed up to that forum...god iam going to have some fun.....

Don't start interforum wars please mate. Sign up, but don't cause crap.

The ecotech is a piece of sh*t. having owned a VR and had extensive use of a VT+ at work - I'd have no quarms about going up against an ecotech powered commodore in my magna, but those buick(sp) motors in the VR were weapons - or atleast the felt a hell of a lot quicker than any of the later bommadores!
Im with you on that one having owned a VN with the buick motor (which is rumoured to have been a buick race engine ?? go figure) and i can tell you no the ecotechs strugle the only commodores that used to give me truble were the VS as they were light wasnt long till i killed one though UPHILL!! LOL was funny as it was my gfs ex and felt so damn good.
but as for the rest of the commodores this is how a VN compares and im talkin bout a wagon here so dnt base all results on this this is from experience so drivers and car probs may have had a part in it

VN vs VP= Vn win by a nose due to extra weight in vps frame work
Vn vs VR= depending on if it was an ecotec or buick but genereally same as above
vn vs VS= very very close race vs can often pull in front. lol add a few mods to your exhaust and intake and bye bye VS. but a Vn under good control can pull half a car length on these if driven right.
VN vs VT/X= EASY WIN VN a Vn can pull anything from one to two car lengths on one of these PIG machines. just too heavy.
Vn vs VY/Z.= against a VY the VN can keep atleast a half acar length CHASE. now i never actually ran a VY so dont judge me on this one but as for a VZ well with 175kw and 195kw you do the math.
VN vs VL or lower= against a non turbo vl easy win by more than 3 car lenths. against a VH TURBO yes VH same as above. against a VC/H V8 one car length win depending if the V8 was auto or manual.


the obove were mainly autos and non worked motors the vn i had was a moded monster lol (only had an exhaust and pod but to sum it up the BUICK motor is a much more well designd motor. but the new alloy tech is the best motor commodore has pruduced for a six by far. sorry if this post seemd pointless

check this guy out



08-12-2004, 05:08 PM #15
Holden__V8





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» Title: SS Member
» Join Date: Feb 2003
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» Posts: 381
off the lights the magna 3.5 would get a v6 como but a efi 5l pft u gota be joking unless it had liek a clapped out motor or a **** driver. As soon as the 5l hits about 100 it would wipe the magna by about 2 car lenghts. I know cause my mate has tried a few times in his grandpas 3.5 verada lol
yeah they have good take off but thats about it.




obviously the verada was an auto. try a manual magna mate. lol his day will come

Don't start interforum wars please mate. Sign up, but don't cause crap.

If you have read my posts on there you will see I have been very polite and diplomatic. Was just being smartarse......alot of the commodore drivers in there are pretty rude to magnas tho...

I like 3.5 the supercharged commys stock are rated at 170kw at the flywheel and a manuel vrx should come out in front , i was lookin at one before i bought my magna but normal fuel consumption ( not driving hard) is supposed to be about 13l per 100 k and i get better than that in me sports.On a side note though it is easy to change the pulley on the sc commys with stock internals to get 200+kw at the fly and costs $700 . :D

i wouldn't mind organizing a forum vs forum drag day at willowbank one day all in good fun of course.so if there's any commodore or ford owners reading and are up for some friendly rivalry let us know. i know i have a few mates(commodore and ford owners) who would be up for it.

i wouldn't mind organizing a forum vs forum drag day at willowbank one day all in good fun of course.so if there's any commodore or ford owners reading and are up for some friendly rivalry let us know. i know i have a few mates(commodore and ford owners) who would be up for it.

yep my mate just bought a manual TF, stock as, and raced my other mate in his EF ex-cop auto. Win to the magna. They would both be keen on being in something like a "family car wars" day lol

yep my mate just bought a manual TF, stock as, and raced my other mate in his EF ex-cop auto. Win to the magna. They would both be keen on being in something like a "family car wars" day lol

lol

i think it would be a good day, and it will help prove we're not all commodore and falcon haters and visa versa. bah hope that made sense

Alrighty, just got back from a night of racing lol

I have a mate visiting who has a 5lt V8 VR Commie...

We went out and tested various things against my auto 3lt TF exec

In a drag at the lights, he gets off the mark faster than me but doesnt pull away....we keep even till we back off at 100

Going about 80 side by side and both floor it......i get ahead and he very very very slowly catches me

Goign 110 on the motorway and we both dump it.....i pull away and he doesnt seem to catch me

His car seems to go well but shouldnt he be flogging me? Iam only a 3lt auto after all ahahahahhahahaha......thats what i like ppl to think anyways

obviously the VR was auto yeh? Magnas certainly have good top end for such a relatively small engine i must say. But look at the stats, RWD 165kW vs FWD 148kW (assuming the same improvement for your car that a muffler has on a VRX over a TJ exec).

On a dyno your power outputs wouldnt be too dissimilar. Both are auto, and the VR would weigh more, so it sounds about right as per your discriptions.

That is of course assuming your friends VR is stock or near stock?

Yep he's an auto and yep he's stock.....its just a hell good feeling keeping up with a v8 and suprising the hell outta the driver

Alright that's it, my next car will definately be a magna, again...

Alrighty, just got back from a night of racing lol

I have a mate visiting who has a 5lt V8 VR Commie...

We went out and tested various things against my auto 3lt TF exec

In a drag at the lights, he gets off the mark faster than me but doesnt pull away....we keep even till we back off at 100

Going about 80 side by side and both floor it......i get ahead and he very very very slowly catches me

Goign 110 on the motorway and we both dump it.....i pull away and he doesnt seem to catch me

His car seems to go well but shouldnt he be flogging me? Iam only a 3lt auto after all ahahahahhahahaha......thats what i like ppl to think anyways

lol sum how i dnt believe you but hey i wasnt there so good work

oh i just read the other post seems believable auto on auto plus magna=ff

i wouldn't mind organizing a forum vs forum drag day at willowbank one day all in good fun of course.so if there's any commodore or ford owners reading and are up for some friendly rivalry let us know. i know i have a few mates(commodore and ford owners) who would be up for it.
i say that will be a great day too bad i dnt live near wilowbank
might organise one of my own down at WSID

lol sum how i dnt believe you but hey i wasnt there so good work

oh i just read the other post seems believable auto on auto plus magna=ff

If you dont belive me get ur a$$ in your car and drive up to the gold coast after new years....by time u get here my full service will be done with my new timing belt, serviced transmission, plus a cat that isnt burnt out and EXTRACTORS.... :badgrin:

If you dont belive me get ur a$$ in your car and drive up to the gold coast after new years....by time u get here my full service will be done with my new timing belt, serviced transmission, plus a cat that isnt burnt out and EXTRACTORS.... :badgrin:

i look forward to racing you after i get my new clutch....at willowbank of course :badgrin:

i look forward to racing you after i get my new clutch....at willowbank of course :badgrin:

i can't wait to race both of you :badgrin:

Yeah I've had the whole Commodore/Ford/BMW fiasco when we hit the lights... Although they all seem to end up as "friendly legal" drags, my 3l Auto (with only a few g's spent on engine work) seems to clean up the best. Mind you, as long as they aren't total knobs to me I have respect for them, no matter what they drive. If Commodore/Ford is what they breathe, then let em :) - Doesn't matter who beats who, I think it only matters whether you're a happy chappy with your car... I can say apart from the stuffed auto box, I'm happy with having the whole top-end power, the driveability, the fuel consumption, the possibility of greater things (with $) and the looks with mine.

i look forward to racing you after i get my new clutch....at willowbank of course :badgrin:


does that include me ??

It includes ALL QLDers willing to take me on :dancin:
(except anyone with a 3.5L manual) :doh:

It includes ALL QLDers willing to take me on :dancin:
(except anyone with a 3.5L manual) :doh:

bugger, i'll take it easy lol

seriously i think your car running almost 15 flat would do my 3.5, have to wait an see. it'll be fun either way

Iam going to teh tarsck tomorerow ahaha iam drunk

Iam going to teh tarsck tomorerow ahaha iam drunk

u serious? i might come watch...

i have to agree with alot of this stuff specially bout the ralliarts ......... i have driven all magnas .... and ralliarts dont seem to be anything amzingly more powerful than a normal TJ ... my TH sports ( manual though) seems to be a tad bit slower than ur average ralliart but only just from what i have everperinced

and as far as a VS commie goes ....i beat one up to 80 at the lights by a car length ... but then the next set of light well....... lets say i aint the best at launching . MAJOR WHEEL SPIN and he ate me for breakfast lol ... i need new tread!1

[QUOTE=_stonesour_]i have to agree with alot of this stuff specially bout the ralliarts ......... i have driven all magnas .... and ralliarts dont seem to be anything amzingly more powerful than a normal TJ ... my TH sports ( manual though) seems to be a tad bit slower than ur average ralliart but only just from what i have everperinced

and as far as a VS commie goes ....i beat one up to 80 at the lights by a car length ... but then the next set of light well....... lets say i aint the best at launching . MAJOR WHEEL SPIN and he ate me for breakfast lol ... i need new tread!1[/Q

A manual 3.5 would beat a VS V6 auto even if one of the spark plug leads was removed, I have heard of many problems launching manual 3.5's due to wheel spin.

I have heard of many problems launching manual 3.5's due to wheel spin.

some ppl complain about it, i dunno what the big deal is, i can get off the line pretty damn quickly when i need to, very small amount of wheel spin.

for me i would say its a combination of lack of experience and lack of tread

my TR keeps up with the VS's of the mark till about 80km...

A manual 3.5 would beat a VS V6 auto even if one of the spark plug leads was removed, I have heard of many problems launching manual 3.5's due to wheel spin.

Just takes practise

raced a VS the other day last thursday actually and i beat him clean he kept up 2 80kmh then i pulled away about a car lenght maybe a lil more hard to judge but it was a clean win funny thing was i friction poin launched it and wen i looked at my dash i seen my (!) light on i was like OH SH!T HANDBRAKE and i still won??? LOL :S so wat woulda happen witout the handbrake on??LOL

my TR keeps up with the VS's of the mark till about 80km...

Yes the TR manuals go quite well, one kind of kept up with me in my VX until I wound the VX out in 2nd, but it did go well, but my VX is an auto, most autos are somewhat sluggish when compared to manuals, an auto TR unless heavily modified would not keep up with a V6 commodore auto in my opinion, not mine anyway and mine is quite fat and slow, slower than a VS, but a manual VS would go better than an auto VS.
A 1996 edition of 'motor' magazine tested a 5 speed manual VS sedan V6 147kw and it reached 100kph in 7.6 secs and 400-m 15.6 secs so they may well be close in manual form to a stock manual 3.5 (maybe not the sports or VRX) but a stock exec 5 speed 3.5 would surely show similar acceleration under road test in spite of the superior technology over the Ecotec Holden V6, I have not found a new car road test on a standard exec Magna 3.5 manual yet.

raced a VS the other day last thursday actually and i beat him clean he kept up 2 80kmh then i pulled away about a car lenght maybe a lil more hard to judge but it was a clean win funny thing was i friction poin launched it and wen i looked at my dash i seen my (!) light on i was like OH SH!T HANDBRAKE and i still won??? LOL :S so wat woulda happen witout the handbrake on??LOL

Most VS's are old and thrashed out, one in good condition properly tuned with no issues should technically roughly match an auto 3.5 if my heavier VX almost can, on the open road the magna all the way though, stronger 3rd gear pulling power. Also depends on the driver, I've met drivers who couldn't launch a dragster any faster than a morris 1100 due to their lack of skill.

a VS with a fully reconditioned engine and gearbox would be able to kill a VT, VX and VY commodore, and most likely kill a 3.5 magna too. They where actually quite light, it wasnt untill the VT days that commodores got heavy

a VS with a fully reconditioned engine and gearbox would be able to kill a VT, VX and VY commodore, and most likely kill a 3.5 magna too. They where actually quite light, it wasnt untill the VT days that commodores got heavy

It would be a close one between the magna and the vs the other heavier cars would be slower off the line.

It would be a close one between the magna and the vs the other heavier cars would be slower off the line.

actually not the case, VT-VY commodores are actually quicker off the mark then 3rd gen magna cos of the low down torque of the ecotec motors, however above about 40-50km/h the magna's mow them down with their far superior top end power. The VS's are like lightning off the line, and get up enough of a lead to keep the magna behind untill your well above 120km/h

actually not the case, VT-VY commodores are actually quicker off the mark then 3rd gen magna cos of the low down torque of the ecotec motors, however above about 40-50km/h the magna's mow them down with their far superior top end power. The VS's are like lightning off the line, and get up enough of a lead to keep the magna behind untill your well above 120km/h

Yeah considering the weight penalty the ecotec pushes the VT\VY along nicely and without excessive fuel consumption. Yes the VS is great off the line.

Yeah considering the weight penalty the ecotec pushes the VT\VY along nicely and without excessive fuel consumption. Yes the VS is great off the line.

except the supercharged 6, from all reports its a gas guzzler!

except the supercharged 6, from all reports its a gas guzzler!

Yes I guess any forced induction engines rely on that extra fuel to get up and go.

Its gotta depend on the car... Big time.... A short while ago, I raced a VS Berlina V6 which had 4 people in it.. I have a 99 TH 3.5 auto and I had 5 people in it... We raced up a slight incline and I was ahead of him by half a car from the start and then when 60 came along I started to pull away... Go magna!

Its gotta depend on the car... Big time.... A short while ago, I raced a VS Berlina V6 which had 4 people in it.. I have a 99 TH 3.5 auto and I had 5 people in it... We raced up a slight incline and I was ahead of him by half a car from the start and then when 60 came along I started to pull away... Go magna!

Yeah I agree, it would need to be a VS in good condition to match or beat a 3.5 maggie, I drove a new VS in 1996 and it flew, but most I've seen these days are old and run like crap,and even when both new it would be mighty close, those 3.5's are awesome and sound good to, but there will always be variation between cars, eg. a bog stock missing hubcap grandma looking 3.0 skyline R31 (pintara 4 door shape) had me at the lights one day in my VX, it was pretty close, those old 3.0 RB30 Skylines move, I used to own one, it was a top car then my wife wrecked it. And yet I've beaten other skylines of the same type quite easily, they were probably old and tired out.

Fords el/ef/au wouldnt get a look in, there like polar bears of the mark, yet when they hit 75 they start to power up

Fords el/ef/au wouldnt get a look in, there like polar bears of the mark, yet when they hit 75 they start to power up

Yes the Fords are sluggish off the mark but once moving they would probably give a 3.5 auto or an ecotec auto a good run for their money, they have very strong midrange torque and are excellent for overtaking once you can get those pistons going up and down, it's mainly the long stroke engine combined with a tall 1st gear which holds them back, but the actual engines have enormous performance potential with 357nm of torque as standard. But I have heard that the AU actually goes very well, how do you think they would stack up against the Magna 3.5 auto? The write ups I've read tend to suggest that they go well, the AU Fairmont Ghia with VCT actually beats the supercharged Calais in some increments.

don't the ef's/el's/au's have the same engine basically?

don't the ef's/el's/au's have the same engine basically?

Same power output but the AU is far superior to the 'E' series and out performs them.

don't the ef's/el's/au's have the same engine basically?

The current 6 cylinder engines have been around for over 15 years, back to the days of the X series. However the top end has been seriously changed throughout the years, and is very well refined.

Fords el/ef/au wouldnt get a look in, there like polar bears of the mark, yet when they hit 75 they start to power up

Be very careful on what you say...... I have seen some very nasty Falcon 6's out there, of course they are objviously not stock.

yep ive seen some quick earlier model XR6's. Many in the 14's

the 4.1L inline 6 from the older XF backwards was totaly different to the EA-AU motor, just like the BA is totaly different to the E series motor.

year for year, manual vs manual the Falcon would be quicker. Mod wise, because of their sheer numbers, Falcons win hands down. My friend has a white AU, big heavy bucket of wind resistance, with a cam, exhaust and a manual runs a mid 14. just cos they are slow auto with gears designed for fuel econ and towing (mainly cos they are a family car aimed at those two things) doesn't mean with some breathing mods they dont get up and boogy :shock:

the 4.1L inline 6 from the older XF backwards was totaly different to the EA-AU motor, just like the BA is totaly different to the E series motor.

year for year, manual vs manual the Falcon would be quicker. Mod wise, because of their sheer numbers, Falcons win hands down. My friend has a white AU, big heavy bucket of wind resistance, with a cam, exhaust and a manual runs a mid 14. just cos they are slow auto with gears designed for fuel econ and towing (mainly cos they are a family car aimed at those two things) doesn't mean with some breathing mods they dont get up and boogy :shock:

your right, but i think you will find that the magna 3.5 is still quicker

it would be pretty close, the ford has the torque and power advantage by a fair bit, but its also got the pretty cruisey gearing and weight.

it would be pretty close, the ford has the torque and power advantage by a fair bit, but its also got the pretty cruisey gearing and weight.

Having driven both the AU and the VX commodore I have found the commodore to be quicker off the mark but the ford has far superior midrange (80-120kph) performance where the commodore is quite flat the magna 3.5 would probably slot between them or match the ford, but off the mark up to about 80-90kph the VX feels quicker because of it's 1st gear, I seem to out accelerate the AU's at the lights even when they are trying, but don't be blause about the Ford engine they can be seriously powerful with torque to rival the best V8's with a few mods, the intech 4.0 is a good engine but thirsty.

well put

Be very careful on what you say...... I have seen some very nasty Falcon 6's out there, of course they are objviously not stock.
I agree, just mean in general my mate owns a el and is pretty sluggish until 80+

my wifes awd is about 6 car lengths behind my xr6 (auto ba) ute to 120k's

she accelarate?

I just signed up to that forum...god iam going to have some fun.....


did any one o nthat froum down load the magna clip on the 4 page ? it is a te tf pulling a 14.88 quater ?

well my 3.0L TE 5sp keeps up with my mate's auto 2.0turbo silvia when we raced up through the blue mountains, he just couldnt get away, and i couldnt find a place to overtake.

it does well up against my other mate's VR SS Auto, but he still beats me off the line with that V8, exhaust and extractors will fix that tho :badgrin:

did any one o nthat froum down load the magna clip on the 4 page ? it is a te tf pulling a 14.88 quater ?
I downloaded that, wasn't it a TJ 3.5 manual, the rear lights looked more like a TJ, the other car was a WRX, It is not a very clear video though.

I downloaded that, wasn't it a TJ 3.5 manual, the rear lights looked more like a TJ, the other car was a WRX, It is not a very clear video though.

Sorry I stand corrected it was a TH not a TJ, great time 14.88 secs

Had a drag with a VS Acclaim wagon on Sunday. I had 3 people in the car, A/C on, they had 2 people in the car. Was fairly even till about 70km/h and i started to pull away. By about 100, i had a car length on him and as we got quicker, the gap was only getting bigger.

V6 commodores die in the ass at about 140+. Their engine runs out of puff the harder they rev.

id hate to say it but my 3.5 verada with a k&n panel got beaten to 90 by my mates stock vs exec with two ppl in each car..it wasnt by much and after 90 i caught him and was a car length in front by 140 but it was still embarassing considering how much i was talking my car up..that was with the original transmission that broke 2 days later it had never felt right since i got it. my new trans is out of a 2001 solara wagon so the gearing is different built for a heavier car. and i havent raced his vs yet but hopefully should do a bit better. but as a rule it depends on the car some cars are just pefect in their dynamics and metriculously put together whereas some are absolute lemons that just screw up from new.

id hate to say it but my 3.5 verada with a k&n panel got beaten to 90 by my mates stock vs exec with two ppl in each car..it wasnt by much and after 90 i caught him and was a car length in front by 140 but it was still embarassing considering how much i was talking my car up..that was with the original transmission that broke 2 days later it had never felt right since i got it. my new trans is out of a 2001 solara wagon so the gearing is different built for a heavier car. and i havent raced his vs yet but hopefully should do a bit better. but as a rule it depends on the car some cars are just pefect in their dynamics and metriculously put together whereas some are absolute lemons that just screw up from new.

Excuse me for questioning, but you have a KE? I thought the first 3.5s came in on F and H models... :redface:

VT 1999model Magna 99 3.5litre

Power 147kW @ 5200rpm 147kW @ 5000rpm
Torque 304Nm 300Nm
weight 1551kg 1441kg
So on paper the magna is going to win, these are both the auto stats, if the 3litre was chucked it It would get flogged

Excuse me for questioning, but you have a KE? I thought the first 3.5s came in on F and H models... :redface:

Nope they came out early on when the TE came out, ie in 96.

Nope they came out early on when the TE came out, ie in 96.

kk thanks

Oh and I thought the 3.5 wasn't an incredible increase on the 3.5... just left a lot more room for improvement?

The 3 was smoother or something apparently?

Ay howz it going

Well to tell you the truth... if both are dead stock, autos and power are similar i would really have to say who ever gets the launch would more than likely to keep the lead. but ay thats me.... Ive seen that happening so many times practically the same, just who eva out launches...

About the ralliart... i neva had the chance to take one on and im dying to run 1... does anybody in NSW well around the liverpool area would like to run me? just lil friendly race just want to see how my car goes against a ralliart... lol

about 20 minutes ago i just dragged my mate in his VR, hes got cat back exaust, CAI, 97,000km on the clock, i was in my TH 3.0 stock, with 241,000km, well he just got me off the line, but by 60 i was even with him and by 70 i was just ahead but we stopped about there, ill talk to him tomorow and find out if he was going flat out, i didnt expect to win :)
Commodore 0 Magna 1

hrmm, both stock auto, i would have thought the commodore would win - they are a quite qick car. However, you don't need to worry about speed, because you'll be the one laughing when the commodore is broken down on the side of the road and you cruise past ;)
But, if you are going to drag a VS, make sure it's on the wet, magna's KILL them, especially if the commodore driver doesnt know how to drive on wet. Because the VS rear wheels are VERY easy to get spinning, it's where FWD comes in "very" handy :)

its pretty easy to spin the wheel on magnas also,

at least te-tfs without tractions

the thing about the fords and holdens they respond extremely well to chipping (as in 100katw to 150 or something stupid).
My ts 3.0L manual should stock beat stock manual commy and be even with xr6's. Mine got throttle body extractors, exhaust, pod (**** all as still in engine bay). Recently dragged a vs auto with 3ppl in it and i had a mate in mine and the vs just frustratingly beat me, if i didnt spin all the way through 1st (no smoke) i would have just been even.
Recenly against an xr6 i was smoking him round a corner and pulled up at the next set of lights. I had a pretty good start was even for a while but dumped the clutch about an inch from it engaging fully (wheelspin = me yelling ****) and he had a car length by about 70 and i dont like speeding.

My mods work as i also had a go at a ts v6 manual with exhaust, was 1 and a bit past it by the top of 1st, these other drags have me thinking im sitting on a lemon though :doubt: or do you guys think that the vs and the xr6 were modded???

just thort i'd mention my experience when i used to own a th auto(advance). had a mate with a vr auto, loud exhaust, 280ks on tha clock. neva raced him off tha line, but did sum top end dragging. was touch an go, too hard to call. argued bout that 4 wks, wished i'd neva raced him! u know how sum of those commie drivers are.........fanatical!!! should ov just went to the drags an sorted it, oh well :nuts:

Back on the thread topic, which I know is already answered. But I just proved your question on the weekend...

My 3.5 Tippy with Powerchip, K&N Panel, and Redback muffler
Mates VS MANUAL with Chiptorque chip, Full exhaust - extractors & Catback 2.5 inch strait through.

I beat him over the quarter bu about a half a body length! He wasn't surprised. It was very close and he did spin the wheels a bit on takeoff but I still would just have it on him. :D

Just thought you'd appreciate a real example...

Back on the thread topic, which I know is already answered. But I just proved your question on the weekend...

My 3.5 Tippy with Powerchip, K&N Panel, and Redback muffler
Mates VS MANUAL with Chiptorque chip, Full exhaust - extractors & Catback 2.5 inch strait through.

I beat him over the quarter bu about a half a body length! He wasn't surprised. It was very close and he did spin the wheels a bit on takeoff but I still would just have it on him. :D

Just thought you'd appreciate a real example...

thats impressive actually. My brother years ago owned a manual VR with those same mods, except a he got a cam with his Chiptorque chip and a pod. It hammered!! When he got his manual TH he said he would of loved to race his old VR, but thinks the VR would win. I tend to agree, i reckon his VR was good for a 14 for sure.

having owned both a 3.5 magna and a VS commodore, i know pretty well how they would go. A healthy VS (remember these cars are getting old now and not all of em are very healthy) should be able to beat a standard 3.5 magna away from the lights without too much problems, however the magna will start catching it at around 80 and should be level around 120-130. Rolling acceleration the magna has the goods

having owned both a 3.5 magna and a VS commodore, i know pretty well how they would go. A healthy VS (remember these cars are getting old now and not all of em are very healthy) should be able to beat a standard 3.5 magna away from the lights without too much problems, however the magna will start catching it at around 80 and should be level around 120-130. Rolling acceleration the magna has the goods

well said, with emphasis on 'healthy' for the VS as they are very old and thrashed out now.
:) Wow has this thread gone for a long time, I'd just about forgotten that I started it until I visited the site again, what have I done? :shock:

haha thats what i thought.. just seems to keep going on and on and on! anyone would think that magna drivers have a complex about commodores :P :shock: