Hi
As you all would probably know i have had my 99 TH 3.5L auto magna for a while now and have done several performance mods along with some mods for looks.
What i want to know is how much power do u think i need to have to run a 1/4 mile in 14.5 or under?
This is my goal obviously no forced induction just N/A here.
I have been dynoed at 140kw at the wheels before, since then i have had 70mm oversized throttle body added and a full 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust fitted with high flow cat and muffler so my power figure should be approaching 150kw at the wheels fairly soon. In the next two months will also be getting CAI and a manifold insulator kit from RPW so that should bump up the power to around 150kw at the wheels for sure. I am also looking into getting a better designed aftermarket mainfold fitted (this is still in the design phase and wont be done for at least a few months).
So through all this how much further do u guys think i need to go to get the 14.5 1/4 mile 160kw atw, 170kw atw? 170kw would probably be about as far the car will reach- this would be with stage 2 cams, ported and polished heads and a few other engine refinements. Too get this i would probably need an auto box rebuilded for performance purposes. I will probably spend in the next 8 months about 3k on performance mods so yeah
So what you guys reckon

Hi
As you all would probably know i have had my 99 TH 3.5L auto magna for a while now and have done several performance mods along with some mods for looks.
What i want to know is how much power do u think i need to have to run a 1/4 mile in 14.5 or under?
This is my goal obviously no forced induction just N/A here.
I have been dynoed at 140kw at the wheels before, since then i have had 70mm oversized throttle body added and a full 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust fitted with high flow cat and muffler so my power figure should be approaching 150kw at the wheels fairly soon. In the next two months will also be getting CAI and a manifold insulator kit from RPW so that should bump up the power to around 150kw at the wheels for sure. I am also looking into getting a better designed aftermarket mainfold fitted (this is still in the design phase and wont be done for at least a few months).
So through all this how much further do u guys think i need to go to get the 14.5 1/4 mile 160kw atw, 170kw atw? 170kw would probably be about as far the car will reach- this would be with stage 2 cams, ported and polished heads and a few other engine refinements. Too get this i would probably need an auto box rebuilded for performance purposes. I will probably spend in the next 8 months about 3k on performance mods so yeah
So what you guys reckon

spend 3 grand on getting a manual gearbox in there and you should be runnin 14.2's

if i was going down that path i would prefer to get the auto box re done instead. I have talked to several transmission specialists and they reckon that taking out the auto box and rebuliding it to handle more power and torque would actually make the auto box superior to the manual box in regarding to performance, this will cost just over $1500 so i would probably do this instead.

spend 3 grand on getting a manual gearbox in there and you should be runnin 14.2's
That's a bit optimistic. I think RPW's fully worked NA manual only recorded a 14.6 down the strip. They mention lots of wheelspin and i guess they could improve it a fraction more though.

But I think mr_mbquart is on the right track with the auto. Once you get some serious power a rebuilt race auto is usually quicker than a manual - and more consistent. Just take a look around at most of the serious drag cars if you don't believe me.

I've never heard of a Magna with a race built auto before and i would love to see the results - i wan't to get me an AWD one day, turbo the bugger, and rebuild the auto box - so i say go for it!!! :cool:

RPW's was 14.7 just to be precise :P

PM Manual about his car, he ran a 14.7 as well with his old magna, ask him what he did..I can't quite remember

i know wat manual had, i have now modified my magna more than he did, his power level was just over 140kw atw wen he recorded that time

i know wat manual had, i have now modified my magna more than he did, his power level was just over 140kw atw wen he recorded that time

Ah cool, didn't know you knew

So what times do you run at the moment? You should be already getting damn close to the 14.5!

I used to think that a 14.7 from RPW's fully worked N/A 3.5L manual was impressive. But now my opinion is that it should of been quicker. Almost stock manual 3.5's run high 14's (or should) :nuts:

I ran 14.7-14.8 too but with Standard Tyres and Suspension... :(

I also believe that RPWs N/A magna wasnt actually fully worked, i mean it had all the bolt on stuff but that was it

I also believe that RPWs N/A magna wasnt actually fully worked, i mean it had all the bolt on stuff but that was it

You're right. RPW's N/A magna had extractors, 70mm throttle body, K&N pod filter and an FPR.. I don't believe there was any kind of piggy back at all.

To run a low 14s pass you need a terminal speed of around 155-160kph, almost all the rest comes down to getting a clean launch.

With the mods you're talking about I should think you'd be in the ball park at least. It's the auto box that's going to let you down initially. Especially only being a 4 speed. (It is a 4spd right?)

Yeah its a 4 speed
Thats why im thining about getting it pulled out and reconditioned for performance- will be able to do it with my next tax return. I realise that the auto box at the moment is the weakest link so thats why i'm pondering this. Wouldnt mind having the fastest N/A magna that we know of being an auto too

Quite frankly I think Booya potentially had the fastest N/A magna with his 14:1 high compression 3L donk. Wasn't it pulling ~ 250hp ATW?

Unfortunately he couldn't get a good time on the track.. but I wonder what his terminal speed was? Post it if you've got it, Booya.

I was re-reading an article on autospeed (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1073/article.html) that does a reasonable job of proving that the best performance determinant, or the number that gives you the most bragging rights, is your speed at the end of the 400m, because it's pretty forgiving of bad launches where as 1/4 times aren't.

This is a conclusion that's fairly easy to observe around the forums in posts like this (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150525&postcount=9) and this (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=126040&postcount=1). Compare the wild differences in ETs vs the terminal speeds.

Anyway, that's all largely irrelevant ;)

I'd be surprised if you couldn't seriously approach 14.5 with the mods you're talking about, but to get any lower you would need to start thinking about cracking the engine open. Flowed heads will probably give you a nice gain, and of course a set of hotter cams should see you well into the low or flat 14s... or better!

Problem with hotter cams is drivabillity. You will end up with an engine producing awsome power up top, but is a dog to drive around daily. lol

That's a good point, however I don't think the profile on even, say, RPW's "Stage 2" cam is too lumpy for a decent idle. I mean MagnaV6Sport13's car, ignoring the obvious problems, was still completely streetable wasn't it?

And the Ralliart cams are supposed to be really mild by comparisson.

That's a good point, however I don't think the profile on even, say, RPW's "Stage 2" cam is too lumpy for a decent idle. I mean MagnaV6Sport13's car, ignoring the obvious problems, was still completely streetable wasn't it?

And the Ralliart cams are supposed to be really mild by comparisson.

Yeah your right, I thought you ment go hotter cams after he already said he is planning stage 2 cams later on lol

:redface: Good call. I'd forgotten he'd already mentioned cams.

thats cool to hear about u have 140kw at the wheels, but by just adding an oversized throttle body and a high flow cat, i dont htink you'll jump 10kw. and then for just a manifold spacer, another 10kw. seems a bit far fetched. but if you do, please correct me.

man all this makes me want to keep my magna, i think you and me would be very close. 3.5 vs. 3.0 :)

Trav

i have fitted a 70mm oversized throttle body and a full 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust system with high flow cat and muffler since the 140kw atw, i used to have a standard exhaust so yeah that should have given a fair bit, i could definately feel it.

and for the extra 10kw i wasnt just taking about the mainfold spacers, i also meant a completly new aftermarket manifold that has been designed for optimum flow, that in itself should be close to 10kw (not cheap costing about 1k).

i think ur on the right track to focus on the trans, its the biggest holdup with the auto magnas for a decent 1/4, i reckon a 2400rpm stall will give u at least .3 secs and solid shifts from 1st to second and second to third will save about another .3, of course the stock trans just cant take too much power anyway, thats the problem ive had so for serious powerup it needs rebuilding stronger anyway.
once u have strengthened the trans the shortcut to the time u want is a NOS kit, stock internals could support a 50-70hp hit ok no drama. that would cost around 500$ and get u comfortably below 14.5 i reckon. a nice ready place to inject the NOS is where the breather hose from the tappet cover goes into the big rubber elbow section of inlet :D

Well dude you have done alot more to your cars breathability than mine. I just changed the exhaust and put a panel filter in. I then piggybacked my ecu and my best time is 15.72 on the 1/4. I really should have dynoed it after I did all this but I was happy with that time and you should be able get these times and better as I would have more weight due to the VR-X's bodykit.
IMHO, these days there is not much if any difference in power and takeoff between the gears of autos and manuals. So many guys in their manuals loose time when they change gears even when they think they are being quick. The modern automatic tranny changes gears more fluidly and adapt to the drivers foot aggresion. If tiptronic was a bad idea over manual then why do top car manufacturers use it in their premium vehicles? eg Mercedes, Audi, Most BMWs, Top-end Ferrari, Lexus, Jaguar

I know it's off topic, sorry..... but do you guys know you can actually adjust how fast the new BMW M3 CLS can change gears with their triptronic?? There are 6 settings. If you put it on the fastest setting. BMW won't warranty your car because it's guarantee to break something after a track day. :) I know... I race against one. It's always on the 2nd to hardest setting. Man they fly.

Skewing back on topic. yes you should fix your breathing first then brakes and suspension, then think about power. No point having the power if you can stop or turn.

If tiptronic was a bad idea over manual then why do top car manufacturers use it in their premium vehicles? eg Mercedes, Audi, Most BMWs, Top-end Ferrari, Lexus, Jaguar

FYI, BMW don't use an automatic gear box in their 'tiptronic' SMG cars. They use a Sequential Manual Gearbox, which is a real honest to god manual gear box with a hydraulically operated clutch. It's awesome. And the one in the new M5 is a 7 speed!

Also consider how much more engineering is likely to go into a gearbox on a car costing $80,000-$200,000 vs a $28,000 family sedan?

And one last thing.. he hasn't got a tiptronic - he's got the old style 4 speed auto box :D

FYI, BMW don't use an automatic gear box in their 'tiptronic' SMG cars. They use a Sequential Manual Gearbox, which is a real honest to god manual gear box with a hydraulically operated clutch. It's awesome. And the one in the new M5 is a 7 speed!


Actually I did mention premium not their midrange models. Please correct me if im wrong but the SMG you are referring to is from the 3 series (under $100k) and yes the new M5 although every other model in the 5 series is a 6spd auto. I was talking about the elite 7 series ($174k-$332k) which are all automatics. Anyway I know what I meant. :D

the real key to those autos and semi autos is that they have at least ratios, the 1st gear is nice and low and the rest are closely spaced. the basic magna exec has only 4, and those 4 could not be geared more wrong for the 1/4 strip

how quickly do these top of the line tiptronic's change gears compared to our humble magna's! one of the manufacturers you mentioned(can't remember which one,maybe BMW) have quoted a .4 of a second gear change!

like i said in the first post of this thread your gearbox is the key to cracking mid 14's, simple as that. :D

I thnk V-Rex and I are on the same wavelength here. I am also talking about the top of the range M3 CLS model. I haven't seen a 5 series at full flight yet, but definitely impressed with the M3 CLS. He was 3 sec faster than our Evo 6.5 TME, although he does have more experience, but still, they are FAST!

how quickly do these top of the line tiptronic's change gears compared to our humble magna's! one of the manufacturers you mentioned(can't remember which one,maybe BMW) have quoted a .4 of a second gear change!
.4 of a second is pretty awefully slow. Those fast clutchless manuals shift a lot faster than that. In the realm of several hundreths of a second.

.4 of a second is pretty awefully slow. Those fast clutchless manuals shift a lot faster than that. In the realm of several hundreths of a second.

I also agree with Redav, I have a mag at home with a review of when the first M3 with the SMGII gearbox came out, and I remember on the harsher settings it was in the hundreds of a second. I'll check this weekend for the exact values :P

lol i skipped most of the last page but i think i got the gist of what you were asking.....


i reckon a tune-up once all the mods are done (you already have a piggy back dont u ? )

maybe some hotter cams, and an LSD , should give you mid 14's

i don't know about how much you can strengthen an auto box, probably cheaper to just buy manual gearbox (not auto lag when changing gears, closer ratio's, ), also remember booya's 3L manual gearbox handles his 250hp or whateva, and apparently the 3.5L manual gearbox is built stronger,


anyways, i can't wait to see what this thing does on the strip


keep up the goodwork man


later :cool:

if i was going down that path i would prefer to get the auto box re done instead. I have talked to several transmission specialists and they reckon that taking out the auto box and rebuliding it to handle more power and torque would actually make the auto box superior to the manual box in regarding to performance, this will cost just over $1500 so i would probably do this instead. What the????
Really?!??!
Where abouts is this mate,like where will they do it?:redface:

i never mentioned anything about a mate, this is just what i have been quoted price ranging from $1500-$1800 with the automatic transmission specialists that i have been in contact with. Why dont you make a few phone calls yourself around and see what they say

it took me a while to even find anyone to do up a magna trans, most of em arent intrested, but i got quoted also 1800$ for a 2400rpm stall and better clutches and solid spline from Perfect transmissions in WA.

i think the old type full hydraulic autos give more solid shifts than the new ecu controlled clutch type anyway, so u dont really need an M3 6 speed. a B&M shifter on an old style strong 3 speed is fast like instant shifts.

.4 of a second is pretty awefully slow. Those fast clutchless manuals shift a lot faster than that. In the realm of several hundreths of a second.

i might of missed a zero(.04). give me a break it was a while ago when i saw it in motor mag :D

i never mentioned anything about a mate, this is just what i have been quoted price ranging from $1500-$1800 with the automatic transmission specialists that i have been in contact with. Why dont you make a few phone calls yourself around and see what they say Guess you thought i meant Your Mate,when i should have said "Where abouts is this Mr_mbquart,like where will they do it?"hehehe guess the net Does that!:bowrofl:

Yeah,may do,depends if i wanna keep my TH next year or not,cause once this Galant comes out,price's should drop(mybz)then i could be in the market for a manual TJ Sports '00
See how things go,so i guess ur the guinee pig then,if you get this done!
Good Luck if ya do!:cool::cool:

about the top of the range M3 CLS model. .............. impressed with the M3 CLS.

Its a CSL........ something, Sports, Lightweight. (i thinks)

but yes, damn fast nonetheless (if you can get your hands on one!)