Not so long ago i was talking to a mate of Aussiefellas on MSN and he was asking me about turbo charging i think and i told him maybe try super charging because you dont need to change your manifolds etc (plus i only know of one other supercharged magna on this forum and its a 3rd gen not a first like he is gonna mod) so in thought it should be a great deal cheaper, i was just wondering if anyone had any info on s/charging the astron because i may be keeping my 1st gen and i wouldnt spend 8G on turbo'ing it but i'd spend 4G-ish on getting hopefully the same power from a charger.. just wondering what the price of everything is etc but as far as i think it'd be:

charger (ripped from a 4agze maybe?) $300-$500

cam (make the most of that exhaust and EMS) $300-ish? depending on grind of course

front-mount (or maybe a top mount off something, cheaper and flows decently??) $?? depends on what is bought.

new mounts for whatever you move to run the charger off, air con etc (if something needs to be moved that is) $??

pumps, oil - fuel etc, maybe even bigger lines? i have no idea what needs to be upgraded for forced induction (turbo guys throw some info in) $??

and - of course after market managment and dyno time plus labour for this all to be done.

but from what i see you dont have to get turbo back exhaust or your exhaust modded for the dump pipe etc, and an exhaust manifold fabricated, harder internals (depending on boost, hopefully just a decomp gasket for some 10psi, turbo'd dudes throw some info this way), blah blah..

also there was a dude who made a thread talking about s/charging his triton that has a astron 2 if he still hangs around here have you done it, costs etc?

info folkes, any would be great.

Ive already discussed this with you Nick, but for the benefit of future readers, ill outline what i know from my experiances of turbocharging.


pumps, oil - fuel etc, maybe even bigger lines? i have no idea what needs to be upgraded for forced induction (turbo guys throw some info in) $??

A fuel pump is a good idea, something from a VL Turbo or similar is ideal for around 10psi boost, chaning fuel lines isnt nessacery.


but from what i see you dont have to get turbo back exhaust or your exhaust modded for the dump pipe etc, and an exhaust manifold fabricated, harder internals (depending on boost, hopefully just a decomp gasket for some 10psi, turbo'd dudes throw some info this way).

You dont need an uprgaded exhaust, im running a stock exhaust on my car and it still works (aftermarket soon!) Because its a S/C you dont need a manifold to be fabricated, harder internals arent really nessacery, but a decompression gasket is a good idea.

Thx,
AF

What the maximum boost the astron 2 can take without upgrading internals? i've been told 10 or even up to 12. Would running 7psi be ok?

What the maximum boost the astron 2 can take without upgrading internals? i've been told 10 or even up to 12. Would running 7psi be ok?

i'd assume 7 would be fine, most factory turbo or supercharged cars run 7 or 8 psi, but of course they are lower compression, i'd like to hope that the astron 2's were blessed with the same strength of internals as the newer mills, like booyas running with stock internals, i'd only be running on what ever was able to be tuned to give the most life and most power, after all whats the point in spending the cash if A) you get no power increase or B) you kill your motor real fast.. but on supercharged cars it'd depend on the pulley set up, to change your boost settings you need to get a new pulley kit, which i guess is a downside to the supercharging system, where as with a turbo set up you can get a electronic boost controler and flick a switch to change the psi being used from say your 'daily' boost to 'i wanna kill a ferarri' boost..

where as with a turbo set up you can get a electronic boost controler and flick a switch to change the psi being used from say your 'daily' boost to 'i wanna kill a ferarri' boost..

I like the sound of that ;)

I like the sound of that ;)

i'd rather supercharge and be DIFFERENT to the leagues of turbo wankers crusin about.

Supercharge, turbocharge...

How would you be different supercharging rather than turbocharging? In the end, your trying to make the car go faster, and whichever will be easier and more effective - go with it!

Go with what works, dont try to be "different" if supercharging takes more effort and money to land at the same outcome.

because by turbo charging u automatically put yourself in the league of the "i wanna be like fast n furious" people with their large blow-off valves that are doing more harm than good to the cars performance, who all migrate to Hungry Jacks carparks after about 9pm every night of the week so that people who are going there to ACTUALLY get food can look at these pieces of **** (with 2x 18" chrome wheels on the front because they went halvies with their best mate Tony so they could have 2wheels each) whilst they wait in the drive through line.

They also feel it necessary to rev the car and make the blow off valve go off anytime they see anything that even resembles a female on the side of the road........and when they come to a corner they all of a sudden drive slower than your grandma on her way to pickup the groceries from your local supermarket.........

*sigh*

:bowrofl: Funny.....

because by turbo charging u automatically put yourself in the league of the "i wanna be like fast n furious" people with their large blow-off valves that are doing more harm than good to the cars performance, who all migrate to Hungry Jacks carparks after about 9pm every night of the week so that people who are going there to ACTUALLY get food can look at these pieces of **** (with 2x 18" chrome wheels on the front because they went halvies with their best mate Tony so they could have 2wheels each) whilst they wait in the drive through line.

They also feel it necessary to rev the car and make the blow off valve go off anytime they see anything that even resembles a female on the side of the road........and when they come to a corner they all of a sudden drive slower than your grandma on her way to pickup the groceries from your local supermarket.........

*sigh*
I totally disagree! They go to maccas not hungry jacks :bowrofl: . Pack of wankas they are, might as well forget maccas at night. They are prob stoned too, dunno how many times i've nearly hit the biaches, they just stand and sometimes even sit in the middle of drive thru :nuts:

im still thinking of superchargin which would most likely come from the 4AGZE. From what shagna told me you loose your A/C and place the supercharger in there. I wasnt thinking of anything as high as 10psi as this would most likely require a piggyback and even some internal strengthening. I was thinking more like a 3-4psi boost, malpassi FPR and retard the timing a bit. Still looking into how fesible it is but am eager to give it a try. Other thing ive been thinking about is how will the MAF sensor handle the S/C? will it be alright and if so would it be possible to get rid of the airbox and run any pod or will the special MAF sensor pod still be required. This is just what issues i can think off of the top of my head, but am keen to see if they can be resolved.
here are a couple of articles about the 4AGZE if anyones interested.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177/superchargerinfo.html
http://www.toymods.org.au/tech.html

I wasnt thinking of anything as high as 10psi as this would most likely require a piggyback and even some internal strengthening.
Piggybacks are crap, if your gonna go for an ECU mod, get a full ECU...
You wont need strengthening to run 10psi, just a decompression gasket.

just had a real good look at it today. There may be a problem with the A/C compressor being in a place where running piping may be difficult, depending on the S/C orientation and how its bolted in, the piping will most likely have to run from the S/C under the plenium chamber and all that to go into the throttle body. Have to have a look at the 4AGZE S/C to see how its all going to work. Does anyone know where i could get my hands on one for a reasonable price in vic? preferably eastern suburbs melbourne.

Piggybacks are crap, if your gonna go for an ECU mod, get a full ECU...
You wont need strengthening to run 10psi, just a decompression gasket.

Piggybacks aren't crap :nuts:

supercharge, turbocharge, as long as it makes it faster, who cares? :P

i'd like to see a supercharged astron, as I've never heard of one before...but isn't turbocharging easier? I kind of agree that 'best bang for your buck' is the route to follow...

since no one has supercharged a 4cylinder magna before that we know of how can we say which is cheaper. and from what ive heard turboeing the same engine can cost as much as 11grand or so.

the way i see it is that if supercharging is feasable, then it would be cheaper, if i loose my aircon then i wont do it, screw loosing that in heat like yesterday :P

costs for turbo charging (off the top of my head)
exhaust manifold
full EMS/piggyback (if you wanna go dodge)
turbo back exhaust
turbo
piping
fmic/tmic
decomp gasket
better internals (if raising the boost)
labour
(not inc are things like extra injectors or larger ones, stupid **** like seat covers and BOV's)

supercharging costs
charger
EMS
fmic/tmic (if you want one)
decomp gasket
better internals (if raising boost)
labour

few grand to be saved in there like making of a manifold and new exhaust to change from your N/A one. Also i wont take sides about the piggybacks being crap because piggybacks are very usefull if you only want to do certain things that the piggyback is capable of, say tuning your car more then an AFC but we all know that if you do something like a turbo conversion your better off getting something with higher resolution for tunability plus they have more bells and whistles.

also im not sure if you could some how get another MAF to work with the system maybe? im sure theres other dudes out there who have turbo'd EFI's that could tell us how they got on.

the reason why noone has s/c'ed a 1st gen yet is cause there have bin problems with doing it. something about belts always flying off, and it not having enough torque in the first place or wateva. the s/c'ers are best left for the 6's and 8's, and the 4's have the turbo. im sure someone could explain y abit better but yeah, thats just wat ive bin told before.

im sure u probably could s/c an astron II if u have enough time, money and patience to fix all the problems. but i dont believe it will yield the same sort of results that a turbo will. thats y i have only ever considered the turbo. y not turbo it though? i mean, u can grab the turbo manifold from the sigmas and u only need to slightly modify that to get it to fit. the astron II has been known to handle 12psi, so stick the turbo and run say 7psi or so and maybe wind it up to 10psi. i wouldnt go any higher than that on stock internals though, noway. wouldnt b very reliable constantly hitting 12psi i would imagine.

an RB25 turbo would suit perfectly if u were to do that. though they cant handle anymore than 13psi (someone correct me if im wrong). but yeah, a decent S/C will easily cost over $2000 to buy and fit. and that would b 2nd hand too. plus all the other parts. an RB25 turbo are pretty common arent they? well i can pick one up for $350 or so. and get stock fmic from a skyline aswell. they are smallish, but they will do the job just as well if u are gunna b running 7psi. these are also cheapish as they are everywhere. there goes ur pricing out the window Nick

^^^

fo real. :cool:

firstly about our engines not having enuf torque to run the S/C is just wrong. If ours dont have enuf torque then how was the MR2 toyota engine supercharged. that engine is tiny compared to the 2.6astron. Its essentially the corolla engine which has as much torque as my cpu fan. Secondly whats this about costing 2grand? From what ive heard and the people ive talked to say that i can get a half cut for the MR2 supercharged engine for $400-500. not that i want the front half i only want the supercharger which i would be quiet willing to still pay $400 for. and finally the supercharger of the 4AGZE runs at 8psi at 5000rpm which would match the turbo boost, not to mention the S/C would provide boost throughout the rev range which would give the car an incredible take off.

why dont u guys have a comp who can boost their magna s/c or t/c for the cheapest, DO IT, my car aint never seeing boost, so i'll just sit back and watch some other sleepers.

i never use the A/C anyway just use the awd technique. So im definately looking at S/C. just still researching how its possibly going to work.

well im gunna turbo my car so we can find out which is cheaper. my turbo conversion or your s/c

well im gunna turbo my car so we can find out which is cheaper. my turbo conversion or your s/c

ARGH! STOP COPYING ME!!! *tears hair out* :rant: :rant:

just outa curriosity how much are you expecting to spend?

Are you talking to me? If so, ive spent about 2500 on my turbo conversionm, and that includes EVERYTHING! right down to boost guages and turbo timers and ECU's...

ARGH! STOP COPYING ME!!! *tears hair out* :rant: :rant:

im copying u? lol, my car is carby. its gunna be a turbo carby TM :cool: and still quicker than ur EFI :badgrin:

Mate, you have no chance..., my car is built to damn good :D

good eh :gtfo:


lol

just jokin

:belt: :upyours: :naughty: :swearing: :bash:

ARGH! STOP COPYING ME!!! *tears hair out* :rant: :rant:


yup coz yur like the first person to turbo a Gen1 magna yeh? :bowrofl:

correct me if im wrong but wasnt your motor given to u on a silver platter all ready to be put straight in and wired up.......so techincally......you copied someone else..... :bowrofl:

yup coz yur like the first person to turbo a Gen1 magna yeh? :bowrofl:

correct me if im wrong but wasnt your motor given to u on a silver platter all ready to be put straight in and wired up.......so techincally......you copied someone else..... :bowrofl:


:owned:

there goes ur pricing out the window Nick

Well you still have to buy and modify a sigma exhaust manifold which you don't have to do for a supercharging conversion, and 2K? you can get a FWD SR20det front cut for that, the 4AGZE s/chargers go for about 500 bucks 2nd hand, then just get that tomei pulley kit and you've got about 10psi, if you get a 4AGZE front cut for around 2K you can use the tmic off that and just throw in a bonnet scoop or again use a 2nd hand fmic off a rx7 (they flow the best out of the factory intercoolers don't they? i think i read that somewhere)..

Guys.... 1800 is all u need

I have a sigma... 2.6....its going to be supercharged and its carby... all u need is the piping and the supercharger, on the sigmas' u bolt it straight onto your water pump for the belt... simple as, then once u done that get custom piping made up...

400 for the C/s...
800 for the stainless piping fitted...
= 1200

plus cost of gauges and a decent fuel pump if desired.

SC can be put in yourself, all u would want is someone to do the piping....

As soon as tax returns are lodged in goes the S/c....

all I can say is...... 200 rw-hp in a lightend modified sigma.... enjoy:)

BTW, beats the crap outta 2,500 for turbo, so yeh... S/c wins

Duke

ghetto_ghangsta@hotmail.com

and from what ive heard turboeing the same engine can cost as much as 11grand or so.

thats if u pay someone else to do the work, get ur hands dirty, learn some skills and valuable knowledge and do it yourself.

if i ever go turbo on mine ill be doing 90% of the work myself

Guys.... 1800 is all u need

I have a sigma... 2.6....its going to be supercharged and its carby... all u need is the piping and the supercharger, on the sigmas' u bolt it straight onto your water pump for the belt... simple as, then once u done that get custom piping made up...

400 for the C/s...
800 for the stainless piping fitted...
= 1200

plus cost of gauges and a decent fuel pump if desired.

SC can be put in yourself, all u would want is someone to do the piping....

As soon as tax returns are lodged in goes the S/c....

all I can say is...... 200 rw-hp in a lightend modified sigma.... enjoy:)

BTW, beats the crap outta 2,500 for turbo, so yeh... S/c wins

Duke

ghetto_ghangsta@hotmail.com


Well here's the first problem, you have a carby, I have EFI so therefore i'd need an aftermarket EMS which would throw into the 1 grand regeon, then since i couldnt wire a loom for crap i'd have to pay someone which i'd imagin would be 500 or so, then dyno time to tune the ***** - 500 or so again, plus the sigma is running the aston 1, and how does the s/charger just bolt onto the waterpump? From what i see looking at my bay theres no real way to mount it unless you weld the bugger on there and what do you do belt wise? just chuck the pulley in beside the water pump i guess? its a big more complex then just saying "It bolts up and works instantly without tuning or anything!"... but i'm going to give some places today a ring and see if they have any ideas on a round-about cost and if they're keen.

Well here's the first problem, you have a carby, I have EFI so therefore i'd need an aftermarket EMS which would throw into the 1 grand regeon, then since i couldnt wire a loom for crap i'd have to pay someone which i'd imagin would be 500 or so, then dyno time to tune the ***** - 500 or so again, plus the sigma is running the aston 1, and how does the s/charger just bolt onto the waterpump? From what i see looking at my bay theres no real way to mount it unless you weld the bugger on there and what do you do belt wise? just chuck the pulley in beside the water pump i guess? its a big more complex then just saying "It bolts up and works instantly without tuning or anything!"... but i'm going to give some places today a ring and see if they have any ideas on a round-about cost and if they're keen.

he said he has the sigma 2.6 which is the astron II and yes, sigmas came out with astron II's.

u can run it off the aircon pully if u don't have aircon too. u can say it bolts up, but obviously it won't work straight away. it wouldn't b that hard to get it running though.

and yes, u will need an aftermarket EMS. good ol EFI. have a look on ebay, i often see a haltech going for cheap

no std magna or even for that matter a 36/36 webber will flow 200kw even at the engine.

no std magna or even for that matter a 36/36 webber will flow 200kw even at the engine.

RWHP champion. read it again and 200rwhp IS possible

In the last few weeks ive done some research as ive had some time now with uni being back and money as i worked all holidays. well the money i which didnt get spent on booze that is. anyway, there is a couple of options for the s/c as i ruled out the turbo option. While magnamayhem you say that youll do 90% of the work yourself, thats what i plan on doing unfortunately i dont have a dyno, i dont weld and theyre going to be some of the most costly things. Because the manifold and tuning time on the dyno is damm expensive.
OPTION 1 for s/c is the cheap and nasty version. Looking around i found the price of a s/c off the 4agze's which were in the old mr2's and sprinters cost about $300-$400 second hand, an FPR is needed which i found the cheapest to be the malpassi, unfortunately they dont come with an adapter which means you have to get one made and the cheapest quote i got for a malpassi includeing installation was $210. Then piping which can be done on the cheap, belt and then run a very low boost like say 2-4psi. Problem being your engine and ECU might not like it but what do you expect for about a grand
OPTION 2 is for better s/c. USing same s/c from 4agze and FPR and piping you will then need greddy emanage chip $750 just for the purchase, which you could install yourself if you want and then get it tuned which is costly to say the least. You might also need a better ignition system say msd which for the full package costs $800. This sytem will run at an 8psi boost and give significant power but of course with a better sytem comes the more dosh. This sytem overall would end up costing about 3grand.

i think ill just save my money for the next car and give up modding this one, too expensive for any real gains.

I'm thinking 3 grand would be on the cheap side to do it "properly", i Emailed some places and W.A.S.P performance came back with a "$10,000 or so to do it *properly*" response which made me gag, they said that about a turbo conversion so i don't think i'll go to them at all. Really at the moment i have no motivation to do see any shops and ask them, i think i'd need the cash first and im contemplating putting up the CBR for some notes but im not so sure about it yet.

I have a dual throat webber, extractors and a 2.5" exhaust on my Astron II. I was wondering where exactly all the plumbing hooks up for a s/c carby set up?

I plan on getting a lathe, mig/tig welder, all that gear soon and teaching myself a bit more about metalwork. If I can get a bit detailed plan of exactly how everything works in a carby s/c set up I'd be game to throw a bit of $$$ to give it a go.

Id be looking at something around 6-8PSI on stock internals (except for the rockers but I dont think thats going to make much difference).

What sort of CR would be needed to run at these boost levels? (My engine is 9.0:1)

Would an intercooler be advised to make the engine last longer?

Also, I read somewhere that the s/c on the 4AGZE was driven via an electronically operated clutch, if this is true, would it therefore be possiable to disengage the s/c for normal driving to save fuel?

Someone told me the supercharger off the 1GGZE or something like that would be a better charger to the 4AGZE which is designed to run a 1.6L engine. Research that and it might be a better option cause i like the way your thinking but really when your not hammering the car i'd say fuel consumption wouldn't be that bad anyway cause your not revving the tits off it therefore using heaps of boost and revs, but yeah then again boost does come in really low with a supercharger.. hmm..

found this: http://users.tpg.com.au/schrick/528i%20Super%20charger.htm