Hi guys!

I've been out trialling some stuff to get, as we all enjoy doing. BEFORE I start the spending, I want to hear a few opinions and scare stories! My favourites so far:

Alpine CDA-9835 Head
Xtant x603 Amp
Focal Utopia 165 W3 Splits
Focal Utopia 38 WX Sub

Sub will be a tuned port in the 28 - 35hz region. I'm aiming moreso to be able to feel the bottom end of a piano than to have my chest beaten repeatedly (60hz) with the bass, so excuse the almost subsonic freq. desires. (Aware of the digital music freq. limits too.)

I'm dealing with the gap from port to midrange by using the 3 way splits. 2 x 6" and a tweeter, with a rather decent 3 way 24db/oct crossover. Supposedly these splits handle down to a useable 45 - 50hz?!?! Fhrx? Any experience here? The sub should handle up a fair bit more than the port freq I know, but there's still potential gap in lower mid there, ie <300hz. I'm thinking with decent tuning of networks and head, I should be able to get a nice CLEAN mix. No rear fills at the moment, because I don't want to. :)

I've got a 96 TS SE wagon to load this into, and it's going to be a custom HIDDEN install. The sub and amp will be recessed in bottom of the wagon. Bye bye spare, to make way for the sub, and yes the floor will lose a couple of inches. But the original carpet will cover it all nicely. By the way, that particular amp doesn't leave MUCH room between the rear wheel arches!!!!!! Front splits will rest in custom made door panels, that will be exactly the same tone and feel of what's there now. Just with 2 x 6" drivers instead of a map pocket thing! Tweeters will go in where the ultimately crappy windscreen hellholes are. Also thinking of doing custom kick panel to get them more evenly staged as an alternative? Advice thus far is the dash mount with decent tuning will be fine.

I'm just basically letting my idea out to be ripped up and torn apart by all the good people of aussie magna! I DON'T do rap, am an audio engineer and pity me, find it difficult to listen to poor quality audio anywhere! Boo hoo, sob sob. I don't expect to find any sympathy, but ah well. Do your worst guys!

PS, I'm kinda hoping FHRX gives me a bit of his experienced view here, I notice a fairy decent plug for Focal gear generally, and a couple of props for Xtant. So yeah, experienced advice is GREATLY appreciated for something that's going to need to be this loveable!

Thanks!

the system in my car is a bit of a bitsa, but i'm using a eclipse DVD headunit (5.1) and focal polyglass 5" splits in the front, running of alpine amp yaddayaddayadda.... i'd find it hard to listen to anything else now! even though the focals do cost a bit more than a lot of brands i always reccomend them to everyone now!

If u like ur staging mount in the kicks. Definetly go with a custom install down there. Otherwise there's too much separation b/w drivers and too much path difference.

There won't be too much of a gap there in the frequencies, if your worried, try a gentler crossover slope etc. Try and get ur front drivers as low as possible frequency wise.

Just cos u tune a port to a frequency doesn't mean it will cut out frequencies above ur tuning point. I think ur thinking about crossovers.

You can tune it to 30 Hz, and low pass the sub at 50 Hz, The sub will still play 50 hz frequencies but will be suited more to 30 Hz frequencies (There will be a peak there). Perhaps think about a sealed box instead if you're after predictable results. And no freq. spikes.

Why 2 x 6" drivers? Why not a 8" driver or 8" 4" + tweeter combo?

Even a simpler two way setup may yield better results. Keep it simple unless you have the budget to eq the lot.

Peace

Tim

To answer you paragraphs one at a time:


Sub will be a tuned port in the 28 - 35hz region. I'm aiming moreso to be able to feel the bottom end of a piano than to have my chest beaten repeatedly (60hz) with the bass, so excuse the almost subsonic freq. desires. (Aware of the digital music freq. limits too.)

I would tend to shy away from a ported enclosure if you're looking for sheer SQ because of the slight peak in the response curve and below the tuning frequency there is not alot of bass to be had (which sucks if you're listening to a pipe organ because the bottom pipe is tuned to 18hz). I would advise sticking with the sealed enclosure but in order to get the bottom end frequency you're after I would suggest a larger sealed enclosure. Obviously this is all heresay and when it comes to actually designing the enclosure, you'll have to enter all the T/S specs into a program and see what enclosure offers you the best curve to suit your style of listening.


I'm dealing with the gap from port to midrange by using the 3 way splits. 2 x 6" and a tweeter, with a rather decent 3 way 24db/oct crossover. Supposedly these splits handle down to a useable 45 - 50hz?!?! Fhrx? Any experience here? The sub should handle up a fair bit more than the port freq I know, but there's still potential gap in lower mid there, ie <300hz. I'm thinking with decent tuning of networks and head, I should be able to get a nice CLEAN mix. No rear fills at the moment, because I don't want to.

The debate between two and three way systems has been raging for years and whether one can actually hear the difference between 2 and 3 way split systems once the car is going and the noise floor has risen - well that is up the the listener.

As for crossover points, if the power and deadening is there, we usually cross the subwoofer over at around 65hz and the fronts as low as possible (often around 50hz). When tuning we often switch the phase of the sub and that coupled with the low crossover at the front gives the illusion that all the bass is up front. Slopes are different for ever install too. I use steep slopes on my car and would prefer that to overlap with shallow slopes but which is best really must be figured out on the day.


I've got a 96 TS SE wagon to load this into, and it's going to be a custom HIDDEN install. The sub and amp will be recessed in bottom of the wagon. Bye bye spare, to make way for the sub, and yes the floor will lose a couple of inches. But the original carpet will cover it all nicely. By the way, that particular amp doesn't leave MUCH room between the rear wheel arches!!!!!! Front splits will rest in custom made door panels, that will be exactly the same tone and feel of what's there now. Just with 2 x 6" drivers instead of a map pocket thing! Tweeters will go in where the ultimately crappy windscreen hellholes are. Also thinking of doing custom kick panel to get them more evenly staged as an alternative? Advice thus far is the dash mount with decent tuning will be fine.

As for the amplifier, I would suggest maybe something like a simple box for them. Something like we have done here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/images/inspire_44.jpg

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/images/inspire_45.jpg

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/images/inspire_46.jpg

As for the best location for the main tweeters, read this tutorial (http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#12).


PS, I'm kinda hoping FHRX gives me a bit of his experienced view here, I notice a fairy decent plug for Focal gear generally, and a couple of props for Xtant. So yeah, experienced advice is GREATLY appreciated for something that's going to need to be this loveable!


Now before I can advise anything on speakers I need to know what you listen too. Focals are fantastic but better suited to cetain genres than other speakers. As for high end amplifiers I would suggest you run with Zapco, ARC Audio or Tru-Tech. Xtant make brilliant amplifiers but the specs of the other three a just that little bit better. After testing literally hundreds of amplifiers myself, I settled on Zapco's. :) :)
Now

Thanks for the replies! Fhrx, you must have a rather burning passion for this stuff to do it for a living, and still be able to reply that quick to a question. UBER kudos to you!

Yeah, I know subs don't only work at the port freq. I mainly wanted the port just to get down to the 18 - 20 hz region for the pipe organs, cellos, and classical kinda music. But a larger sealed is obviously going to be simpler and ultimately more predictable, so it might be a good idea to go with that. The focal sub reckons it has a theoretical lowest freq of 25hz, (free-air of 35hz) but it says it depends on the enclosure volume. Wish they gave me a little more detail as to which way it depends! :) Can I get it useably lower by using the right size box? 25hz is adequate I guess, but you know. Thankfully I have a large amount of TS params so I think I'll start running a few programs and see what I can come up with! Thanks for the new line of thought there though!

Zapco eh? I haven't had a chance to test them. I loved the xtant because I tried the focal splits with a phoenix amp, and then with the xtant, and the difference was truly amazing. Speakers are NOTHING without their amps to anyone wondering about that!!! But I've just been looking, and the Zapco 360.4 bridged into 2ch @ 4ohm will give me ample power for splits duties and then the 500.1 at 2ohm should certainly run the sub. I'm looking at the 'Reference' range. Any guidance there? I wish I could hear them somewhere! Anyone know a REALLY good car audio place on Brisbanes southside?

I kinda really want to get the entire back end of the system out of sight, and I also use my wagon as a wagon regularly (Drum kit, PA gear etc etc). That was the motivation behind putting it under the floor. Still might persue that option if possible. Would be prepared to pay for the more complex install just to have it how I wanted for day to day use and safety. I guess it'll depend on the size of the box I need though. Might not be physically possible to have it all the way I want. Gotta hate compromise. Custom kicks for the tweeters is sounding like a good idea though!

I listen to a lot of stuff! Which isn't helpful, I know. I'm so hesitant to reveal tastes because there's always the risk of some 15 year old starting a rant about something or other that isn't important! lol Here goes though... at times I listen to classical stuff, yo-yo ma cello stuff, and beethoven and bach symphonies etc. I also listen to a lot of piano solo stuff, and thus desire as natural a sound as I can. I also listen to rather a lot of chillout music, ranging from jazzy instrumental chillout to the more MOS technoey chillout stuff. I tend to like the clearer musical groove stuff. And I also like Ibiza style techno, with as little words as possible! Lot of general techno stuff when I'm in the mood, but I shy away from pop music in general. R&B, Rap, Pop dance, all that stuff I don't go near. Pop rock I listen to when the urge for distortion hits. Blink, Greenday, Nickelback (NO comments please! :)). I'm a drummer, and play a lot of rhythm guitar also. So a lot of my interest in music is the drums and the rhythm of it all. Thus bass, but very defineable bass. And then I also like Pearl jam a lot, and more of the rock stuff that isn't teeny bopper and has some kind of musicality to it. However all that I've said in this paragraph is enough to spark mega riots, so hopefully this will be enough to give you some idea as to the work this system will be doing!

Thanks again, and when this system happens, I'll keep you all posted with pics!

FHRX, how does an amp go with out much ventilation in a setup like that? I was thinkin of doing a similar setup with the amp enclosed but I've been holding off because of heat.. I dunno bout better quality amps, but the Sonys I had in my Lancer used to get F*#KING HOT!
So is ventilation important?

FHRX, how does an amp go with out much ventilation in a setup like that? I was thinkin of doing a similar setup with the amp enclosed but I've been holding off because of heat.. I dunno bout better quality amps, but the Sonys I had in my Lancer used to get F*#KING HOT!
So is ventilation important?

ventilation on any sort of amp is important. u don't want to be pumping bucketloads of bass one second then have zero the next, coz your amp overheated :P

i'm sure that has some sort of ventilation!!..easiest way is using a fan and or vents....

i've been wondering..they've been developing some kind of nanotech gel which u can apply to CPU's and stuff. What it does, is like one side absorbs the heat and gets hot, but the other is really really cool. so all u need to do to the hot side is throw a fan at it, or heat sink or something....i'm not sure :doubt:

The front side of the box (the side facing the seats) in left open and there are fans at each end (inside) that blow air around. :)