I had a Lukey muffler installed on the weekend with a 3" tip and it's sounding pretty good and seems to have picked up a few more HP at the top end.

The place I went to quoted me on a set of Pacemaker extractors - $520 fitted and the best bit is they come pre-coated.

I'm pretty keen to know what the benefits are of the RPW set that justify the extra cost. They are over $600 and that doesn't include freight, installation or coating. I'm particularly interested in the newer series that is supposed to be better for automatics and provide more low down torque (which is what I'm after).

place an order for the new rpw race extractors coming out in a month or so....just over the $600 mark...they will be closer to the $700 mark once they are released!

But we won't know how they perform until after they're released and a few people like yourself have tested them :p

i have faith in them and because their existing extractors are already a top setup these race ones will be even better!

thats why rpw do alot of research before they do these things!

i think they might have already tested em...not sure.....but wait man...just wait till they are out!

I am the test set for the TR/TS V6 models.

Kilby you got the new ones?

How do they perform? Have you got an auto box?

I've got a manual

They're great extractors.

There was a great improvement in the high and mid range...and little or no improvement in low end.

That was with the stock cat back exhaust.

Then I got a 2.5" mandrel bent cat back exhaust and it improved even more

Yeah, I'm leaning RPW. They are of a tuned length nature as opposed to an interferance design. By design they should be better. As for the coating. Make sure it's the coating you're thinking off. I've heard they call it HPC but it's not the HPC that RPW use. Do some research. I think one HPC is the method and the other is a product.

We sell both Pacemaker and RPW but trust me when you put both the systems together and compare there is no comparison to RPW's design.

We are also offering the same deal as RPW for the soon to be released Tuned Length "Race Design" extractors to suit both the 3.0 and 3.5 V6 Motors. The main improvement over the street design is a massive improvement in torque figure.

People who pre order a set before the 17th of August will recieve the new Race Design at the Street Design price. Thats a saving of well over $60. For more information feel free to e-mail me.

Damn I was hoping you'd say the new Race Design would improve the low end alot :cry:

Would really like some more low end torque / power being an auto.

The main improvement over the street design is a massive improvement in torque figure.

it does improve torque!!!!

mix this with a pod and zorst and fpr and u are one happy mutha f**ka

You will find the new "Tuned Length" Race System will bost torque over the whole rev range however they will REALLY come alive after 2200 - 2500 rpm. That isn't bad... cosidering thats when you ride the torque cure in any car.

In the end when it comes to ordering, its up to your guys who you want to go through (Aussie Magna or RPW) as the prices are exactly the same.

i told ya rpw were the better ones


so nyer! :p

Nah it wont improve low end that much. It's a physics thing..at low rpm the exhaust is moving slower and there is less of it. So the stock exhaust copes alright with that. But at high rpm the exhuast doesnt cope because there is a shitload more exhaust fumes at a higher speed...they are trying to get thru the same gap that was easy for the low end.

A new exhaust system will usually aid mid-top end more than low. Tho I can't see it robbing low end of power...It didn't do that to mine anyway.

You'll want an FPR to aid the auto.

Killbilly: that is a good point and it makes sense to me.

Roughly how much am I looking at for shipping to Brisbane and installation? Also is there an option to get them heat treated/coated?

If you ask me, the magna doesn't need any more torque down low anyway.. with my manual I can idle (foot completely off the pedal) up a gentle hill in 3rd gear and it doesn't even sound like its trying! That's a lotta torque.

Killbilly is spot on, however due to the tuned length of the headers there will be an improvement especially in the higher rpm range.

Its still early days, once they are up and running on the test car we will find out for certain.

As for prices. If you pre-order the price will be $604.00, if you wait until they are released they will be close to $660.00. If your genuinely interested in a set e-mail me and we can sort out a something attractive.

Shipping accross the country is generally around $40 plus $11 for packing / bubblewrap. Fitting will depend where you have it done and there is the option to have them HPC Coated.

SO tell me again why people need a FPR fitted to their cars? I have not found anyone that has been able to show me the A/F ratio before and after fitting a FRP and showing a power inprovement. It is so frustrating. You talk about the RPW extractors and how much development they put into their products. I have not seem even and single dyno printout to prove the benifit of there design and quite frankly anyone that leans out an engine to the point that it self destructs during development in my book is not on the ball. Something a simple as monitoring the fule volume in the return line would have indicated that the fuel pump was nearing it's limit. But hey that is just me. That is my rant for today sorry. :oops:


Cheers
Paul

You are correct about the leaning out - it is not good for that to happen but the annoying thing is - I was not there when teh car did that.

We sent the vehicle out to a dyno tuner (Not mentioning names) and we left the car in there hands. I was unfortunatly not there when it happened because if I had of been then I would have stopped the problem before it happened. :evil:

Needless to say that we were more disapointed than you can imagine as we have had to pull the motor out of the car, repair it (And in this case make it stronger for more modifications) and generally be without my car for four weeks on going now.

We are looking at some new dyno companies now and I will actually be with my car this time when it is dyno'd to make sure there aer no problems like this again.

As for FPR units - we primarily use them for removing flat spots not specifically hp gains as when you increase the airflow on vehicles teh fuel does not always match teh incoming air and there are brief lean spots (Not the same as happened on the magna) and that is where people comment on flat spots when accelerating. This is what we primarily use the fpr unit for.

Dyno sheets -I do not have a dyno here and we have proven that all teh dyno's give different figures so that is why we don't advertise dyno figures.

David,
I really do feel for you if the damage occured during a tuning session where you weren't present. I guess that it just goes to show how little knowledge is out there. I can't help but get the feeling that many of the better known workshop over here on the east coast get by with nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

I too can understand your comments about the dyno results. Even here in resent times we have seen the variation that can be found from one dyno to the other for the same type of car and engine combination. Having said that a Dyno printout can be worthless even if they are done on the same dyno as there are several very easy ways that I can think of off the top of my head to dramatically alter the dyno graph.

My concern relates to the ability of people to use nothing more than their bum to derive HP figures after modifications. Even if you had done back to back dyno runs with a disclaimer saying that result may vary it would, in my eye only, increase your credibility ten fold with regards to the modifications that are being made.

I think that you have made an important comment about the FPR also in so far as it won't increase overall power. Indeed in my limitied experience I have found the flat spots to which you refer are often caused by a lean point in the factory mapping under light throttle conditions at lower revs. This problem is exaserbated by the increase in effecieny that the engine will experience with a new muffler and/or pod filter fitted. In this case there is very little that you can do other than the fitting of the FPR that you have described as any attempts to alter the ratios will be rendered useless as that part of the map is closed loop and the oxy sensor will soon make short work or any changes that you have made. I personally have just changed my driving style so that were possible I am able to avoid those driving condtions that I have listed above.

Please don't ever think that this is a personal attack on yourself or your company. I relise that you have done more that most out there in respect to the amount of R&D that you have needed to do due to the fact that you are for all intents and purposes the only supplier of aftermarket equipment for the Magna range. It is more due to the frustration that I experience from that situation where if someone hears the same thing from 3 different sources then it must be true. This is how the simple things get missed, modification that have been performed because an area of the factory setup was deficent.

Anyway I have had my rant about this now and I am sure everyone knows what my position is on this so I will refrain from long winded whinging in the future :D

Cheers
Paul

I actually enjoy reading the long whinded ranting in the forums because it actually explains stuff to me :)

It is good to know that someone gets something out of it. I don't claim to know everything that there is to know about cars and engines but I have done a bit of stuff over the years and with all the mis-leading information floating about in different mediums I feel that I have a duty to other with less experience to pass on the little knowledge that I do have.

Cheers
Paul

I generally find that people learn more from forums than anywhere else and I much prefer a civilised discussion on the net V a ranting raving customer with no knowledge and sprouting garbage.

You are correct in your intrepretation of the FPR uses and the only time we use the FPR more as a power gain is in teh MAP sensor model cars where unlike a magna, they do run lean with other mods as they don' t have the ability to register air flow like the MAF air flow units and recalibrate themselves.

Dyno sheets we may plan on doing but the other main problem we have is our website is already costing me loads of money due to its size and the amount of traffic we are having and dyno sheets are something we are slowly introducing in the future but it will be some time away after our website has been completely remodelled with a newer fresher and more proffessional look.

P.S I did not intrepret your questions as an attack - but it was a question that needed to be answered like any questions.

I had my RPW Extractors looked at by a close friend of mine today who builds and research stuffs like that for Hypo and European cars

His opinion on the RPW Extractors are;

The tuned length manifold are long which is good, could probably go a few more inches but he reckons that is good enough as any longer the nuts will be in the way as well as the radiator fans., the part where they merge are done nicely, the welding is solid. He was actually impressed by the fact that the system runs all the way to the cat where not many manufacturers do that.

"Longer manifold creates better low end down torque as it has a better regain of kinetic energy through the exhaust pulses" If I remember those things he said to me :shock: :oops:

Hope this helps too.... :)

I wish I had friends like that :(

Had Pacemakers installed on my TJ about a month ago. Noticed some difference in torque but nothing really earth shattering. Would have liked them to be a bit thicker/larger though. Incidentally, I paid $360 for mine from someone in Melbourne.

FPR - that sounds for Fuel Pressure Regulator right?

And for a TJ 3.5L auto, is it really required? If I needed that too, then I'll need to find a new insurance company :(

Update for those interested.

The new race design we aer goig to be test fitting to a car next week.
First on the AWD model and then on teh FWD model.

Once fitment is confirmd then we begin manafacturing.

This new design is fantastic and I will have some photos for everyone real soon.

Bear with us as this is goign to be a very exciting time for everyone.

if these arent ready to buy soon, ill end up spending my money on somethin else, hope we get some results soon!!!

Excellent news, Dave. I'm keen to get my hands on them but I'm more than patient enough to wait so you know it's been done right.

I'd like to add that my car was running too rich (between 11.5:1 and 12:1) at WOT from 3500 RPM or so (I have to go by memory because the dyno sheets never arrived. The death of one of the employees that night sort of messed things up).

Excellent news, Dave. I'm keen to get my hands on them but I'm more than patient enough to wait so you know it's been done right.
Yeah not the only one!

Hey Dave, Saw some pics of a set of your extractors the other day where the o2 sensor is right up on the rear bank near the collector. I hope this will be fixed on the new set.
Also one other set on a TJ sports was hitting the lower control arm mount, has this also been addressed?

We generally with O2 sensors place them in the same position as the origonal to ensure it reads accuratly as well as for easy fitment. If that is where the stock O2 sensor is located that is where we will locate it as well.

The issue with the inner control arm has always been there - you normally grind off less than 1cm of material off the inside of the arm as it just touches in certain applications. This should not be a problem with the new design as the flex pipes are completely different and the three headers come down and merge underneath the sump pan some more.