I had a Call from my friends at Haltech Engine Management Systems in Taren Point Sydney.. They have developed a Piggy Back Computer for the 3.5L magna and my car will be there test tube dummy as they need a car to test it all on.. I will be handing my car to them on Wed 16th and they said its going to take atleast few days to install and test as its there first on magna.. I will get the Interceptor piggy back ecu installed and fitted and get several Dyno runs of before and after performance. The fuel consumption is going to improve and overall drivablility will improve too, said it will be a differant car..

This is all in good timing as we are heading to WSID in two weeks so lets hope things go well and i can have it for then.. will be interested to see the performance differance.. if i can get half of second i will be happy..

Ive spoken to them about a good price for Amc members and they are going to work on that for us..

I will keep you all informed and have results ASAP..

All The Breast
Jason..

Go ego...

*Watches carefully*

Haltech is good!!!

Very interesting... Could be an alternative for the Greddy Emanage that everyone is using...

Exactly what do they mean developing for the 3.5l magna - an off the shelf part with a custom loom for the magna, or a separate part, with its own internal maps pre-programmed?

Cheers
Heath Young

I will be handing my car to them on Wed 16th and they said its going to take atleast few days to install and test as its there first on magna..


i seem to remember that it took them a fair bit longer than a few days to get BOOYA's car all sorted lol
Hope it wont be the same for you

i seem to remember that it took them a fair bit longer than a few days to get BOOYA's car all sorted lol
Hope it wont be the same for you

Well booya must of done something more special than a piggy back..

They do them for 3.5L till now.. loom and programing has been done to suit..

as long as it can work on my 3Lt then i'll be interested :D

as long as it can work on my 3Lt then i'll be interested :D

Dont know about the 3L will find out wed for you guys..

aight sounds good

The haltech interceptor is a generic piggy back computer.. fairly new to market. I've been hitting up Street Torque in Alice Springs to get one fitted and tuned on my car. I've a funny feeling the reason you've been asked to be a guinea pig is because I've been hassling Dallas about it :D

Hope it all goes well cos I hope to get mine fitted up before the end of the month. :P

There's no reason it won't work on the 3L. I think the only issue at the moment is sussing out the right settings to work with the MAF sensor.

The haltech interceptor is a generic piggy back computer.. fairly new to market. I've been hitting up Street Torque in Alice Springs to get one fitted and tuned on my car. I've a funny feeling the reason you've been asked to be a guinea pig is because I've been hassling Dallas about it :D

Hope it all goes well cos I hope to get mine fitted up before the end of the month. :P

i wouldnt be one bit surprised... ill even query dallas about it ;)

i wouldnt be one bit surprised... ill even query dallas about it ;)

Good! The bugger was supposed to call me back "in a few minutes" last Wednesday lol

finally we can get stuff in syd and not in perth or NT!!

hope it all works well ego.. :D

The haltech interceptor is a generic piggy back computer.. fairly new to market. I've been hitting up Street Torque in Alice Springs to get one fitted and tuned on my car. I've a funny feeling the reason you've been asked to be a guinea pig is because I've been hassling Dallas about it :D

Hope it all goes well cos I hope to get mine fitted up before the end of the month. :P

There's no reason it won't work on the 3L. I think the only issue at the moment is sussing out the right settings to work with the MAF sensor.

Yes thats why as dallas is on there case about it and wants them they finally work out the programing and just need to test it now.. they want my car asap and so he must be pushing hard..

Im going to be glued to this thread now, thats awesome Jason :D

Do you think you'll get much of a gain considering your car is close to stock performance wise? For god sakes make sure you do us a favour and post the before and after dyno's

When are you expecting it to be installed and get results? How much are these kits likely to go for?

Dammit I want info lol

Im going to be glued to this thread now, thats awesome Jason :D

Do you think you'll get much of a gain considering your car is close to stock performance wise? For god sakes make sure you do us a favour and post the before and after dyno's

When are you expecting it to be installed and get results? How much are these kits likely to go for?

Dammit I want info lol

Haha. Didn't you buy an e-manage already? :P

I think the unit sells for about the same sort of price as the e-manage, maybe a bit more.. one difference I think, is that the haltech comes with all the goodies for injector and ignition control out of the box.

Assuming Ego doesn't come back with pricing I'll post my own quote once Street Torque get back to me with a solid number.

Im just curious what the results would have been with those from the emanage to haltech.

Mind you it will depends on the mods and the tuner but im still interested in the kit as I haven't heard anything about it before, plus Haltech have a very good name about them :D

Haha. Didn't you buy an e-manage already? :P

I think the unit sells for about the same sort of price as the e-manage, maybe a bit more.. one difference I think, is that the haltech comes with all the goodies for injector and ignition control out of the box.

Assuming Ego doesn't come back with pricing I'll post my own quote once Street Torque get back to me with a solid number.


They said about $1200 for AMC not sure if thats fitted.. will find out wed.

Im just curious what the results would have been with those from the emanage to haltech.

Mind you it will depends on the mods and the tuner but im still interested in the kit as I haven't heard anything about it before, plus Haltech have a very good name about them :D

The haltech interceptor has been out for a little while now. Ben started a thread (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12088) about it back in late November.

I know Street Torque reckon the Haltech gear is much nicer to tune than the Greddy stuff. Dallas, at least, claims the E-Manage falls a little short of "true" real-time tuning.

Anyway, it's all hear say until Ego gets it hooked up!

Ego - Are you going to tune for regular, 95RON or 98RON? I was going to go for 95RON myself. 98RON is just too pricey in Darwin :(

Ego - Are you going to tune for regular, 95RON or 98RON?

well it will be 98RON for sure.. thats all i run my car on.. was thinking of tunning it to 105Ron if it makes a worth while differance..

was thinking of tunning it to 105Ron if it makes a worth while differance..

:shock:

Where do you find that stuff on a pump?

:shock:

Where do you find that stuff on a pump?

U cant.. special blend.. :D

I had a Call from my friends at Haltech Engine Management Systems in Taren Point Sydney.. They have developed a Piggy Back Computer for the 3.5L magna and my car will be there test tube dummy as they need a car to test it all on.. I will be handing my car to them on Wed 16th and they said its going to take atleast few days to install and test as its there first on magna.. I will get the Interceptor piggy back ecu installed and fitted and get several Dyno runs of before and after performance. The fuel consumption is going to improve and overall drivablility will improve too, said it will be a differant car..

This is all in good timing as we are heading to WSID in two weeks so lets hope things go well and i can have it for then.. will be interested to see the performance differance.. if i can get half of second i will be happy..
Ive spoken to them about a good price for Amc members and they are going to work on that for us..

I will keep you all informed and have results ASAP..

All The Breast
Jason..

you rekon you can knock 5 tenths off with just the chip?

you rekon you can knock 5 tenths off with just the chip?

I was told by the performance shop that fixed my car (they work on some pretty high qual cars) that he reckons I would easily get 1/2 as much power again with an aftermarket ECU and proper tuning. So 1/2 a second probably isnt out of the question...Even tho it's a different car and motor, just giving an example.

you rekon you can knock 5 tenths off with just the chip?


Im hoping so.. i dont think .5 of a second out of 14.9 seconds is a big ask.. only time will tell..

I was told by the performance shop that fixed my car (they work on some pretty high qual cars) that he reckons I would easily get 1/2 as much power again with an aftermarket ECU and proper tuning. So 1/2 a second probably isnt out of the question...Even tho it's a different car and motor, just giving an example.

your putting out 160hp@wheels? if you can put out 240hp@wheels with just a chip i'll fly to sydney and give him a BJ lol

5 tenths with a chip is hard to tell cause of all the variables......

50% more power from a chip is crazy talk

you know i'm not dissin you mate, just the info you've been givin

haltech - easy :cool:

your putting out 160hp@wheels? if you can put out 240hp@wheels with just a chip i'll fly to sydney and give him a BJ lol

5 tenths with a chip is hard to tell cause of all the variables......

50% more power from a chip is crazy talk

you know i'm not dissin you mate, just the info you've been givin

Simply because the factory ecu is holding the motor back "in a big way" to quote them.

Anyway diss it all you like, the guys know their stuff. He was talking 1/2 more power from a Motec, not a piggyback ecu.

considering mine is running very rich all over it's not hard to see there's massive improvements to be made.

Simply because the factory ecu is holding the motor back "in a big way" to quote them.

Anyway diss it all you like, the guys know their stuff. He was talking 1/2 more power from a Motec, not a piggyback ecu.

considering mine is running very rich all over it's not hard to see there's massive improvements to be made.

i know probably 4/5ths of f*ck all compared to these guys, so it must be true. go get it done big fella i wanna see it, would be sweet pickin up that much power :D

I wont be getting teh Motec lol
It'd cost at least 5k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

So I'm keen to see the results of this haltech.

Im hoping so.. i dont think .5 of a second out of 14.9 seconds is a big ask.. only time will tell..


far out!! 0.5sec?? hmmm lets see 14.6(will be 14.5 next time i promise) minis 0.5 = 14.1!! watch out ralliart!!! :D

far out!! 0.5sec?? hmmm lets see 14.6(will be 14.5 next time i promise) minis 0.5 = 14.1!! watch out ralliart!!! :D

its all egotheory so far mate, have to wait and see lol

its all egotheory so far mate, have to wait and see lol


yea but if he does than im in! :D looking a unichip but havent decided yet.

yea but if he does than im in! :D looking a unichip but havent decided yet.

Not too big a decision:

Unichip. Suits: Stock 3.5L Cost $850. Dyno Tuning: What??

Haltech. Suits: Any vehicle and combination. Cost: $1000+dyno tuning. Why: To tune it for your engine mods, driving styles, elevation etc.

May as well do it properly. Can always sell the Haltech later if you sell the car, or use it to run your Turbo or Supercharged Magna.

Scotts Dyno in Newcastle have told me around the $1000 mark for a Haltech + dyno time for tuning.

Im hoping so.. i dont think .5 of a second out of 14.9 seconds is a big ask.. only time will tell..
Definatly.


far out!! 0.5sec?? hmmm lets see 14.6(will be 14.5 next time i promise) minis 0.5 = 14.1!! watch out ralliart!!! :D
Keep dreaming...


Unichip. Suits: Stock 3.5L Cost $850. Dyno Tuning: What??
It's about $1250ish all up.

Unichip. Suits: Stock 3.5L Cost $850. Dyno Tuning: What??


It looks like you're implying a Unichip doesn't get dyno tuned. If so, you're confusing it with a powerchip. The unichip is a universal piggy back.

Guys just it easy on each other.. Im just dont know whats going on lately but Killbilly and my self seem to be the centre of attacks... Everything we say lately has had 3-4 people bite back and be sarcastic or give **** too..

we are all mature enough to be men about it and ad ur opinion but every seems to take it way over board.. I take it thats because we have to many boys and not enough men..

Im with u there ego, im here for car talk and make a couple mates.... some ppl seem to come on here to vent some steam at randoms.

Bit of respect never hurt, ppl can be wrong and thats cool. theres a right and a wrong way to go about things.

WE WANT MEN, NOT LITTLE BOYS :D

wtf? i have seen nothing in this thread that has been harsh? a few minor arguments, geeez :nuts:

Im like Blake, and will be glued to this thread. I think we ALL want to see big improvements from your car Ego to give us an idea of what we can all acheive :)

Haltech for ego and AMC !

Very interested in how this goes against the greddy!

Guys just it easy on each other.. Im just dont know whats going on lately but Killbilly and my self seem to be the centre of attacks... Everything we say lately has had 3-4 people bite back and be sarcastic or give **** too..

we are all mature enough to be men about it and ad ur opinion but every seems to take it way over board.. I take it thats because we have to many boys and not enough men..

you talkin about me mate? if you are let me know cause i wasn't tryin to be nasty toward you or killbilly............. :headbange

we are all mature enough to be men about it and ad ur opinion but every seems to take it way over board.. I take it thats because we have to many boys and not enough men..
With that said.

Are you able to download your own tune to it on the fly?

Say a Valet tune for when you go and get it serviced, so no nimrods flog your car?

Ill be looking at a Piggyback that will allow me to download a valet mode that doesnt allow the car to rev over 3000k.. (in my next car)

With that said.

Are you able to download your own tune to it on the fly?

Say a Valet tune for when you go and get it serviced, so no nimrods flog your car?

Ill be looking at a Piggyback that will allow me to download a valet mode that doesnt allow the car to rev over 3000k.. (in my next car)


i know i can do that with my E6k, using one of its AUX imputs, you can wire it to a switch that (assuming they dont know what this switch does) can load a secondary, third, (if you have a three way switch) map which can limit just that, make it doghy as dog **** when on a specific map -

all comes down to how much you wanna spend on tuning.

[QUOTE=Redav]Definatly.


Keep dreaming...


it's ok redav :) i didnt for one minute think i would gain that much!! but in thoery if one car will gain that why not two?? if i got down to a 14.3 i would be very happy :D

With that said.

Are you able to download your own tune to it on the fly?

Say a Valet tune for when you go and get it serviced, so no nimrods flog your car?

Ill be looking at a Piggyback that will allow me to download a valet mode that doesnt allow the car to rev over 3000k.. (in my next car)

To quote the brochure (http://www.haltech.com.au/downloads/interceptor071204_spec.pdf):


Dual switch selectable fuel, ignition and boost maps

It appears you can, to a point. It doesn't say if you can impose a rev limiter though.

Oh, I should also have mentioned that you can download the software and the tuner's manual from the haltech web site too, which will probably answer every question you can imagine.

Okay dropped the car off this morning..

Should have a before dyno run result this arvo..

Is it going to come back fully fitted this afternoon, or do they reckon it'll take longer?

To quote the It appears you can, to a point. It doesn't say if you can impose a rev limiter though.

of course you can!

mine is set at 8300rpm

I just heard (from Dallas at Street Torque) that the fitting has worked out on Ego's car.. gotta love the grape vine.

Dying to hear what numbers you get out of it.

For the curious, I've booked mine in to get a Haltech over Easter and I'm expecting change from $1500 fitted and tuned.

I just heard (from Dallas at Street Torque) that the fitting has worked out on Ego's car.. gotta love the grape vine.

Dying to hear what numbers you get out of it.

For the curious, I've booked mine in to get a Haltech over Easter and I'm expecting change from $1500 fitted and tuned.
damn eh, thats a pretty quick fit, change and tune..

Is it a final tune or are they expecting it back for tweaks?

damn eh, thats a pretty quick fit, change and tune..

Is it a final tune or are they expecting it back for tweaks?

That's a final tune. RRP for the unit is $990, the $500 is for the tune.

That's a final tune. RRP for the unit is $990, the $500 is for the tune.
Ahh ok, thats pretty good then. I would have thought as a test car they would keep it for a few days, run a few different types of maps over it to find the absolute best tune..

I guess it differs from tuner to tuner and piggyback product..

Ahh ok, thats pretty good then. I would have thought as a test car they would keep it for a few days, run a few different types of maps over it to find the absolute best tune..

I guess it differs from tuner to tuner and piggyback product..

Ah well I guess Ego's is really the test car.. Dallas has tuned quite a few Haltechs before, including the E6K on Ben's car, though not an Interceptor I don't think. After talking to him for a while I'm confident he knows what he's doing.

Okay guys the bullshiit is over and here is the out come..

I was expecting a call this afternoon from Haltech to give me the results of the before dyno run.. I had a call around 3pm to say the car was ready to go.. Shocked i went down there(they said 2-3 day)..

All went well as it has the same set up as an evo(Id say they are talking about the wiring or something).. The Team from Haltech have been reading this thread and people where complaining they are to slow so they got it done quickly. so be nice with the replies if you want one. as i showed up they where giving her a good thrash down the road.. Had two mates ring me to tell me as they seen the car going flat out it all gears. :D :D (Perfect way to test hey).

Dallas was on the phone yes just as they finished tuning and has ordered three of these puppies on the spot....

Paperwork shows 136kw at the wheels with an the biggest increase between 3800rpm and 5500rpm.. i can feel that differance which makes me happy for a stock car.. getting exhaust and extractors now... the car was running way to rich for there liking so they back that off from 12:1 to 10:1 and said ill get way better fuel..

Ive only driven it for a few mins so the test will be tonite.. i wall take it for a good burn and let you guys know, but im happy i can feel the increase in pull.. (not that kind :shock:)
:D :D
All The Breast
Jason..

holy **** man! 136kw!!!! nice man! well done! have fun modding :D

What was the "before" figure? 136kW sounds awesome, I'm not surprised you can feel the difference :badgrin: Given that every dyno gives you a different number it'd be nice to put that gain into perspective.

When you say they went from 12:1 to 10:1 I'm guessing you meant it the other way around since 10:1 is richer than 12:1 :D Supposedly even 12.5:1 is ok for N/A cars, but they are the experts. Good stuff. Now go and take that 0.5 seconds off your 1/4 mile time.

Paperwork shows 136kw at the wheels with an the biggest increase between 3800rpm and 5500rpm.. i can feel that differance which makes me happy for a stock car.. getting exhaust and extractors now... the car was running way to rich for there liking so they back that off from 12:1 to 10:1 and said ill get way better fuel..
And that's up to 136kW from what? How was the torque curve affected? How soon can we see graphs? 10:1 isn't a little lean is it? For a car with just an exhaust upgrade, that's a nice overall figure.


The Team from Haltech have been reading this thread and people where complaining they are to slow so they got it done quickly. so be nice with the replies if you want one.
Hi, Haltech! :D I might have a fun little project for one of your systems.

Now I am just waiting for the financial year to end, put in my tax and spend my cheque on the haltech......

mmmmmmn haltech........

oh, and pacemakers plus some sorta zorst...

and mustn't forget a visit to the panel beaters to get rid of that hail and respray it some other colour.

Geez, spent that refund cheque quick - didn't even see it :confused:

Spoke with EGO this arvo, he got 136kw at the wheels, thats up from just under 130kw. He also commented on the driveability more than the power gain.

Thanks jase.. It was about 130kw before the chip.. Ive just taken it for a good drive and can feel the differance in the power. i look at the graph and i can tell you where the changes start from when get into it.. I dont have a scanner so cant put this dumb Dyno sheet up for you guys to see..

Yeah its running leaner now so which ere way it goes..

It looks like you're implying a Unichip doesn't get dyno tuned. If so, you're confusing it with a powerchip. The unichip is a universal piggy back.

You're right, my mistake :redface: Back to net to do some research :lurk:

As Redav said, I've gotta see this torque curve now vs stock. Torque turns wheels, kilowatts light christmas trees.

Sounds like you've dont well on a first (final?) tune. I'd say the torque is up in spades if it's more driveable than before. Some good breathing and zorst will help big time. Congrats!

Well done to the Tuning Team too. Good to see some 'Professionals' taking interest.

I hope they're interested in doing a DOHC 24v 3.0l V6 TR ;)

hmm
these guys have any mates in melbourne ?



iff not i mite be doin a sydney trip....

just for anyone interested...you dont have to have the haltech interceptor to hook up to a magna. i have an e6s on my cb gsr lancer just (piggybacked) in and its great. when i was considering a kh verada i was going to swap it straight over and it is incredibly easy to put back to stock. just thought id mention it so you can keep an eye out if a 2nd hand one becomes available.

cheers mon

Hi All,

I am Adrian from Haltech, and I did alot of the work on EGO.

We always ask for 2-3 days as sometimes things don't go to plan, and we don't like to rush through a solution, but most often it is as simple as the magna was. Thankfully Mitsubishi use the same basic ECU for most models of this era. The wiring of the magna was almost identical to the EVO 6,7,8 that we already support. Obviously there is no boost control on the Magna, but the fuel and ignition control is identical. The hardest thing of the job was finding the ECU which is in a bit of a rotten spot behind the centre console..... the CD stacker under the dash didn't help things!! :) I suspect that the 3.0 cars will have basically the same ECU and wiring, so there is a good chance that we already support the 3.0L cars by just doing the same as the 3.5L. I will have to check the wiring diagrams, but given the 3.5 is the same as the EVO, I suspect the 3.0L would also be the same.

To be honest, the magna is tuned pretty aggressively from factory. It has alot of fuel which can be pulled out and gain some kws and fuel economy, but the ignition timing is pretty close to the mark out of the box. Of course this car was hardly modified, so the factory ECU was doing an alright job. We were able to pick up about 5kW from 3500-5500, with smaller gains everywhere else. On a car with extractors and full exhaust and maybe cams, we would make much larger gains, as these mods would result in the factory ECU being far from optimal.

As far as tuning goes, the magna was as rich as many factory cars seem to be under load. The factory tuned the cars this way to keep the engine internals cool so you can give them an utter thrashing in hot conditions, and it should survive a bit of pinging if bad fuel is used. Obviously you can gain some power and some economy by pulling fuel out, but you want to keep things in measure. I find that on most cars, max power is in the 12:1 - 13:1 range. Sometimes 13:1 will give some pinging, so I normally aim for about 12.5:1 on an NA car. Unfortunately the dyno AFR meter changes a bit with temperature and reads a bit richer after getting hot on successive runs. The car is tuned to about 12.3-12.5:1.

As for being seen giving the car a hiding... I am amazed..... I was out in it for about 3 minutes. Went up the road to a block we drive around, went around it once and came back.... you must know alot of people in this area!! We often find a car runs a bit different out on the road to on a dyno where things get hot, so I always take a car for a drive on the road to be sure it does not ping, and that the tune on the dyno has translated well onto the road. Of course I give it a bit to test it.

Anyway, the Haltech Interceptor is a new but very nice little product. It can do most of what anything else in this industry can do, and has alot of features that others cannot do. You can reduce rev limits and have it adjustable with a switch. You can run multiple tuning maps switch selectable. It can drive shift lights and many other things. We have been struggling to break into some of the bigger performance car markets, as we are not as well known as the competition even though our product is better (think WRX, XR6T etc.), so we are really trying to get into some of the market where there is not as much aftermarket support. I hope that the product is well received and you guys buy a few of them!! :) In terms of pricing... the nature of the product is that it is custom tuned, so I encourage you to see you dealer who can quote on his tuning as well as the supply price. We have very competitive pricing available to dealers who purchase in some quantity (rather than asingle unit), so I strongly encourage you guys to get togeather and hit a dealer up to buy a few in a group buy, and you should get a good price.

Anyway, good to meet you guys, and I am happy to answer any questions that I can, though forgive me if it takes a while as we are pretty busy here. I hope I am not treading on an toes here posting commercially related info

Cheers,

Adrian
Haltech Engine Management

Hi All,

I am Adrian from Haltech, and I did alot of the work on EGO.

<snip>

Anyway, good to meet you guys, and I am happy to answer any questions that I can, though forgive me if it takes a while as we are pretty busy here. I hope I am not treading on an toes here posting commercially related info

Cheers,

Adrian
Haltech Engine Management

Hi mate. Thanks for taking the time to log on to the forums and share your knowledge with us. It's much appreciated!

I'm sure you'll find a few Magna people looking to pick up an Interceptor - it's nice to have an alternative from the Greddy E-Manage that has been the defacto piggy back chip in the past. As I've already posted, I've already ordered mine from Street Torque in Alice, to be fitted over easter. :D

Wouldn't mind seeing a test fit of a Haltech Interceptor to a Ralliart as a comparison to Ego's...

shame I can't come up with the cash myself to get this done atm.

Age, welcome to AM mate.


question for ya, do you know any1 in melb that can fit and tune ?
or am i up for a drive to sydney ?

Age, welcome to AM mate.


question for ya, do you know any1 in melb that can fit and tune ?
or am i up for a drive to sydney ?

Hey, dude.. check out the list of haltech dealers (http://www.haltech.com.au/aus.htm). There are heaps in most states.

Wouldn't mind seeing a test fit of a Haltech Interceptor to a Ralliart as a comparison to Ego's

The outcome relys on how bad the existing tune is. The Haltech can adjust fuel and mixtures to the tuners requirements, but if the stock ECU has it right, there is little power to be made. Therefore the interceptor normalyl makes a much bigger difference when you lots of mods, as the factory ECU will nolonger be ideal.


question for ya, do you know any1 in melb that can fit and tune ?
or am i up for a drive to sydney ?

I would recommend Gas Research/Swift in the Dandenongs.

-- Adrian

Is there much benefit in going for a higher octane fuel to take advantage of advancing the ignition timing without pinging?

Also, is there much power to be made in that area? If so, is there a big enough potential gain between PULP (~ 95RON) and Ultimate/Optimax (~ 98RON) to make it worth the extra $$?

Thanks in advance :D

When tuning you bring on the timing until max power is made or pinging starts. On EGO, I got no pinging before I reached max power (though it is still reasonably rich), but I believe he was running 98 RON. If an engine is prone to pinging before it makes max power, than the better fuel will be of a benefit, but I doubt that it would make much difference on this engine. The real value of high RON fuels is when you up the compression, or increase boost on forced induction cars. High RON fuel allows you to run higher compression and higher boost levels, but on an otherwise standard internals magna engine, I doubt there would be much difference between fuels once at atleast 95 RON.

On turbo cars, you get to a point where the engine will ping with any more boost regardless of how rich and retarded you run it. The only way to get more boost is higher RON fuels.... This is why most of the dyno queens in there turbos run racing fuels.

-- Adrian

When tuning you bring on the timing until max power is made or pinging starts. On EGO, I got no pinging before I reached max power (though it is still reasonably rich), but I believe he was running 98 RON. If an engine is prone to pinging before it makes max power, than the better fuel will be of a benefit, but I doubt that it would make much difference on this engine.
Okay, but does that mean you should try tuning it to ULP first to see if it's worth while or just go straight for PULP and go for gold?


The real value of high RON fuels is when you up the compression, or increase boost on forced induction cars. High RON fuel allows you to run higher compression and higher boost levels, but on an otherwise standard internals magna engine, I doubt there would be much difference between fuels once at atleast 95 RON.
Do you know what typical gains are seen from higher compression i.e. 9.0:1 to 10.0:1 or even 11.0:1?


This is why most of the dyno queens in there turbos run racing fuels.
:bowrofl: - Gold!

I would recommend doing one of two things:

* Tune it on the worst fuel you expect to run under normal circumstances, and if in abnormal circumstances you run worse fuel, take it easy until you can get better fuel.

* Use the dual mapping option to tune for multiple fuels that you might and then flick the switch. You could even leave one maps as stock ECU, and one as tuned. This may cost extra installation/tuning time and hassle though.

In terms of compression ratio. Despite my previous comment, I am really a turbo man, and not that experienced with tuning of high comp NA engines. I know it will benefit power, but I feel it would depend onthe combustion chamber design as to the improvements. Hondas run high comp, but very well designed combustion chambers. On a badly designed engine, it may make little difference, and just make it ping more readily. I feel it would depend alot on the engine. I would certainly do extractors/cams before uping the comp.

-- Adrian

Thanks, Adrian. That's some pretty informative posts there. Welcome too! I must admit just the alternate maps make the system more appealing than a Unichip.

I told you guys god was watching.. :D

Adrain thanks for doing the work on my car.. I know its stock and wasnt expecting must and when i saw 5-6kw i thought thats okay.. The biggest shock for me was feeling the differance in the car. I can feel the better pull top end and it revs easier and just wants to go, the biggest test is when we go to WSID on the 30th march to see how she runs now... :D Im very happy with the outcome..

I would like to thank Adrain & Scott for the good job and ill be back soon with the cams, extractors and exhaust system fitted for a retune.. :D :D

P.S. i know losts of people round here.. good to see you where driving the car the way you should of been, like its stolen.... :D

Thanks Adrian, Scott & The team at Haltech
Cheers
Jason

No worries mate.. thanks for the use of your car. It was actually a really nice car to work with on the dyno. Very consistent and repeatable and responded as you expect it should.

I expect the main differences you notice are to drivability. The dyno curve does not show it (and neither will the ET), but I did a fair bit light load (50% throttle), and it picked up nicely down there. It should be more responsive and nicer to drive from this. The top end power will pick up with some more mods, so we can look forward to that.

As for the dyno curve also.... the max power run was done immediately following the standard run (I always put it back to standard after tuning it to get a base run in the same atmospheric conditions, and then do the final power run), so the difference is probabyl more than the curve shows, as the before run was done after a coasting time to cool things down, but the power run was done about 1 mintue later after loading the tuned map into it. I am not into inflating results to present a false result. I could have grabbed the worst stock run, and the best interceptor run, and the difference would have 10kW, but I am not into that.

-- Adrian

Nice work The Ego. Just wondering if we have a ballpark which we could expect for the system's cost and install not including tuning? i.e. 700, 1200, 1500ish?

Still keen to see the graphs ;) It also backs up that usable torque increase is what counts, not just a nice peak power figure. Revelstone2 had a Unichip fitted and I believe the comment was made that a 6kW gain wasn't much but he and a few others tried to explain that peak power isn't everything.

Adrian, do you have any gut feels for an ideal exhaust piping size for say a 3.0 and 3.5 engine? I know you mentioned that N/A isn't your forte, (which is why I stopped with the compression questions), but do you have any experience in that area? I know that a 3.5l had a 3' exhaust fitted and the dyno indicated that there wasn't any losses over the rev range, only gains. I'm just wondering if 2.5' is better for the 3.0 than the 2.2ish factory piping?

I guess this might not be answerable by yourself but do you have any thoughts on whether an oversized throttle body, say 2mm might be of use?

Nice work The Ego. Just wondering if we have a ballpark which we could expect for the system's cost and install not including tuning? i.e. 700, 1200, 1500ish?

Still keen to see the graphs ;) It also backs up that usable torque increase is what counts, not just a nice peak power figure.


I should be able to get this Dyno sheet scanned tonite i hope. As for the price Adrian will have the answers to that....

i told you all the Haltechs were beaut' :D

Adrian, do you have any gut feels for an ideal exhaust piping size for say a 3.0 and 3.5 engine? I know you mentioned that N/A isn't your forte, (which is why I stopped with the compression questions), but do you have any experience in that area? I know that a 3.5l had a 3' exhaust fitted and the dyno indicated that there wasn't any losses over the rev range, only gains. I'm just wondering if 2.5' is better for the 3.0 than the 2.2ish factory piping?

Go as big as you can without losing power because of loss of back pressure. This si highly dependant on the exhaust header design and cam overlap. I suspect that 2.5" would be fine, but if 3" has no disadvantage, go with that. I suspect that the magna exhaust design is tuned, so it should cope with a big exhaust alright. This really a matter of what others have found to work.


I guess this might not be answerable by yourself but do you have any thoughts on whether an oversized throttle body, say 2mm might be of use?

This could easily be investigated with a vacuum guage. Work out what the vacuum in the manifold is at full noise. If it is considerable, tap the guage into various parts of the intake system to see where the biggest pressure drop is, and fix it. If there is significant pressure drop across the throttle, then power is available from enlarging it. If there is not drop across the throttle, then you will gain no extra power, but you may change the throttle response. Last thing you want is an oversized throttle where 25% throttle is full power!!

As for the price. I am afraid that I am limitted in what I can say about that. The retail for the unit is $990. Different dealers will charge different amounts for fitting and tuning, but I would expect that the range of cost would be $1300-1500 depending on the workshop and the time/quality of the tune/work. Now we have deals that enable dealers to buy cheaper in quantity, so a dealer that does alot of Haltech Interceptors may be cheaper than one who does occasional sales. This is all I can say here. The dealers obviously do not pay retail for the unit, but they are entitled to a mark up on that. If I tell you that a dealer should be able to do it for $X cheaper than retail, then I piss off dealers who want to charge retail. My advice is that you go and see a dealer in your area and discuss with them. There is some dealers of our product that are well into the Magnas, and may do a better deal than others. People will quote what they pay on the forum here, and people will get an idea of what sort of money is normal.

-- Adrian

buy your Haltech' Magna equiptment through Dallas :thumbsup:

if eveyone used dallas, he could buy more, more = less and you can work it out from there :thumbsup:

support the First Workshop that worked with the first Haltech Magna!!!

buy your Haltech' Magna equiptment through Dallas :thumbsup:

if eveyone used dallas, he could buy more, more = less and you can work it out from there :thumbsup:

support the First Workshop that worked with the first Haltech Magna!!!

but weren't these guys the first to get one of out N/A magna's fit it and do the testing?

has dallas jumped on our forums and offered to use one of our cars as a test car?

but weren't these guys the first to get one of out N/A magna's fit it and do the testing?

has dallas jumped on our forums and offered to use one of our cars as a test car?


bens car has a stand alone computer not a piggyback....

Sorry mate my was the guinea pig for Haltech.. Dallas knows what he is doing..

but weren't these guys the first to get one of out N/A magna's fit it and do the testing?

has dallas jumped on our forums and offered to use one of our cars as a test car?

dallas couldnt use the internet if you teached him!!! lol

This could easily be investigated with a vacuum guage. Work out what the vacuum in the manifold is at full noise. If it is considerable, tap the guage into various parts of the intake system to see where the biggest pressure drop is, and fix it. If there is significant pressure drop across the throttle, then power is available from enlarging it. If there is not drop across the throttle, then you will gain no extra power, but you may change the throttle response. Last thing you want is an oversized throttle where 25% throttle is full power!!
Anyone know how easy it is to do use a vacuum guage on our manifolds? Good point about the point of full power. So, basically if the amount of vacuum is say high in the manifold and a fair bit lower downstream of the throttle body then there's your restriction?


but weren't these guys the first to get one of out N/A magna's fit it and do the testing?
Haltech Interceptor - yes
Haltech system - no. Well, as far as history as we know it says...

Anyone know how easy it is to do use a vacuum guage on our manifolds?


I can't give you any info about measuring vacuum in the manifold, but I will be doing some tests on the intake system on my car this weekend, weather permitting.

I'll be comparing the standard intake snorkel vs my super high tech space age 90mm storm PVC, and if I can find time I'm going to test pre and post filter as well as post MAF sensor.


So, basically if the amount of vacuum is say high in the manifold and a fair bit lower downstream of the throttle body then there's your restriction?

Spot on.

bens car has a stand alone computer not a piggyback....

Sorry mate my was the guinea pig for Haltech.. Dallas knows what he is doing..

dude shutup, i'm stickin up for you and the place you got it done at lol

redav- thats what i meant(first to do the piggyback)

Are regular functions such as cruise control confused by the piggy back sys? I don't think that they would be considering the vacuum/cruise/tb arrangement but I'm asking just the same :D

Luv my cruise!! I use it waiting for the commonhores and falcons to catch up :cool:

Welcome to Aussie Magna vosadrian, it's really great to see you drop by and answer our questions.

I've got one for you now,

Would you be keen to do a DOHC 24v 3.0l V6 (non turbo 3000GT motor) thats in a TR Magna? Currently running the stock diamante (jap magna in case you didnt know) ECU and wiring. Recently dyno'd about 123kW at the wheels, apparently it was pretty rich too.

Heres the dyno sheet you have all been waiting for..


http://www.mysti.org/host/egodyno.jpg

Awesome!! :D

hey thats a nice figure,

wen u getting yur next mods

Very smooth power curve!!!

now - bolt that turbo on so those lines are VERTICAL!! :badgrin: lol

Is there a Torque Dyno printout too?

Is there a Torque Dyno printout too?

Nope dont have one..

Ben no turbo, turbos are for tools.. real men get superchargers.. :D

Nope dont have one..

Ben no turbo, turbos are for tools.. real men get superchargers.. :D

"i want my cutter back"
"sorry, i figured youd have heaps of these anyway"

...
....
.....

"my pockets arnt empty cuz"


sorry, ramdom.. i dont know what significance it has to this thread - or EGO's reply :shrugs: lol

"i want my cutter back"
"sorry, i figured youd have heaps of these anyway"

...
....
.....

"my pockets arnt empty cuz"


sorry, ramdom.. i dont know what significance it has to this thread - or EGO's reply :shrugs: lol

My theory is right.. ur a tool ben.

It must have been cos u were dropped on your head at birth.. :bowrofl:

My theory is right.. ur a tool ben.

It must have been cos u were dropped on your head at birth.. :bowrofl:

:shrugs: been a too long day, i aint arguing with ya EGO!!! :rant: lol

maybe when i wake up tomorrow moring, ill have some words of wisdom for you :P

:shrugs: been a too long day, i aint arguing with ya EGO!!! :rant: lol

maybe when i wake up tomorrow moring, ill have some words of wisdom for you :P

yeh i always knew you were a fairy :D

As a side note to the session between our resident ladies above...

Thanks for coming on the forums Adrian and sharing that info with us. Its opened my eyes somewhat as to what can be acheived for a relatively small cost. :clap:

I would like to say that the fact that someone from Haltech has come on here to answer questions for us magna enthusiasts is truly appreciated by everyone I am guessing. I am thinking that other manufacturers could learn something. In any event, if I ever decided to get one of these installed in my car, I would certainly remember the company who took the time to speak with the public as opposed to companies who hide behind their dealers and stay silent.

It sounds like an awesome product and I am most impressed with the option of being able to switch between "tuned" and "stock" modes.

Goodluck with future sales and I hope to see more from you on our forums. Cheers. :thumbsup:

Mark.

Nope dont have one..
Any chance you can head back out to them and get one printed? They should still have the data stored on file. Man, that thing was running rich!

It would be interesting to see how Killbilly's car would go. Wonder how the wiring is.

Oh, nice to see that the car was hooked up completely so we have a chart with RPM. Last three times I've had one done, it's only been in speed. Next time will be a different story.

Hey Guys... easy on the turbos. No offense, but they really are the way to go for a small to medium sized performance car. My car is a MY92 Subaru liberty RS. THe engine is the bottom end of a MY04 US Spec STi which is 2.5L capacity. MY98 WRX heads, front mount intercooler, and STi VF34 turbo (which is a bit on the small side). It currently has 190kW ATW at 5500rpm(all four wheels!! would be well over 200 if it was 2wd), and makes full boost of 17psi at 2500rpm. Max torque I have calculated to be about 480Nm at about 3500rpm. Not all turbo cars don't have low end power. I would be happy to give any Aussie V8 a run from 3000rpm in 4th gear!!

I have just ordered a new turbo for it and should easy make 220kW ATW!! When I get it sorted, I will run it, and should pull a high 12 fairly easily... maybe a mid 12. Anyway, enough turbo propaganda!!


Are regular functions such as cruise control confused by the piggy back sys? I don't think that they would be considering the vacuum/cruise/tb arrangement but I'm asking just the same

All standard features of the car are retained. It is a piggy back, and does its thing by adjusting the signals the stock ECU sees to alter the tune. THe ECU does not know any different, so does everything as normal.


Would you be keen to do a DOHC 24v 3.0l V6 (non turbo 3000GT motor) thats in a TR Magna? Currently running the stock diamante (jap magna in case you didnt know) ECU and wiring. Recently dyno'd about 123kW at the wheels, apparently it was pretty rich too.

If it is the same as other magna models, we would like to support it. There is a good chance it is the same as EGOs car, as Mitsubish do not change much ECU wise over the years. Obviously if it is a one off, then it is not worth our while to do it, but a good Haltech dealer may be interested in doing it if they can get the wiring diagrams for it. I am confident the Haltech interceptor can do it, but it is a matter of getting a wiring diagram for it.

Now as for those asking about Torque. Most people misunderstand what Torque is, and I have explained it on many a forum, but most people continue to misunderstand it or don't believe me, but it is really simple physics.

Power = Torque * RPM * constant

Power and Torque are linearly related to each other. It is impossible at a given RPM to increase one without increaseing the other, and the percentage increase in Power at a given RPM will be the same as the percentage increase in Torque. There are 2 ways to make big power..... Make big Torque at limitted RPM (Think big capacity engines), or make moderate Torque, but hold it to high RPM (think F1 engines and honda VTEC). Turbo engines generally do a bit of both depending on turbo sizing. Old school people like to thin Torque rules, as big capacity v8 engines of old made lots of torque, but torque dropped off rapidly with RPM. A good drivers engine is an engine that make constant torque to high RPM (BMW M3). The engine is good across its whole range and does not peak at low or high RPM.

Anyway, dynos don't measure Power.... or Torque. They measure tractive effort. Which is actually a measure of Torque applied to the rollers. Note that Torque is multiplied by gear ratio, and there is lots of gearing changes between the engine and the roller... roller to wheel is a change in gearing. Diff, gearbox etc. The dyno measures the Torque applied to the radius of its roller, and then converts it to Force against its rollers which is tractive effort, as each brand or modle of dyno roller has a different radius... which is a different Torque, where as tractive effort is a measure that can be compared dyno to dyno. Note that the tractive effort will vary a huge amount with gear ratio for the dyno run. I used 4th, but could produce much higher numbers in 3rd, and probably produce more than a 500kW ATW car can in 4th by running a stock car in 1st!!!

So the dyno knows the torque applied to its roller, and it knows the rpm the roller is spinning at, so using the formula above, it calculated power. Now knowing the power of the engine (which is not effected by gearing since it is scaled to RPM), it can back calculate Torque of the engine only if it knows the effective gearing from engine to dyno rollers. THe dyno does not know this, but if set up right, the dyno will know RPM, and it can then calculate the effective overall gearing knowing the roller RPM and the engine RPM. From this the dyno (or anyone else) can calculate flywheel Torque.

Anyway, most dyno operators do not understand this, and most do not even setup the dyno to read engine RPM, so they cannot do it anyway. They just do a dyno curve showing tractive effort which is useless, as it is effected by gear selected, wheel/tyre radius etc. It is not useful for comparison, but people like to compare it anyway.

Now I could print out a dyno chart with calculated flywheel Torque, but but it will suffer losses like power does. And since no other dyno oeprator I know does this, it is useless for comparison, so I am not going to bother. All I can say is that the percentage change in Torque will be the same as the percentage change in power, so somebody can work that out from the posted curve. The increase is approx 5kw across the range, but bear in mind that 5kw is a bigger percentage of lower power than higher power, so the bigges increase in Torque is probably at the middle of the RPM range.

I hope that you guys have a better understanding of how things work. The trick to knowing if an engine has increased Torque is to look across the RPM range to where the biggest percentage increase in power is occuring, and that is most often not at peak power. This will give you the percentage increase in Torque.

Mark, thanks for the good rap mate. At Haltech we like to think that we are different to Unichip etc. that are more a closed door approach. Haltech have sold ECUs for many years, and many people have purchased and installed themselves. We value the market who have a better understanding of their cars and want to understand what they are doing. Unichip have gone after hte market of people who are happy to pay for a power increase, without care as to how or why. Their market is a good one these days, as with higher tech cars, and high IT salary customers that hand over a cheque to beat a mates car. Hopefully our market has still got some life in it!!

-- Adrian

I don't believe I put the Unichip down. I pride myself in not putting down other products. A good product should sell itself and not require this. Please show me how I put down the Unichip product. I simply pointed out a difference in the was that Haltech works compared to APS. I even stated that they are very successful in what they do, and it is a good way to go for the current performance car market. I believe what they are doing works very well for them, but we work different to apeal to a different market. Please point out my error or retract your comments.

-- Adrian

We value the market who have a better understanding of their cars and want to understand what they are doing. Unichip have gone after hte market of people who are happy to pay for a power increase, without care as to how or why. Their market is a good one these days, as with higher tech cars, and high IT salary customers that hand over a cheque to beat a mates car. Hopefully our market has still got some life in it!!

-- Adrian

:nuts: :nuts: That's quite an unfair generalization don't you think?

:nuts: :nuts: That's quite an unfair generalization don't you think?
I don't think so. I think he's on the money with APS and their marketing. Almost everything they have is a bolt on upgrade including their Unichip. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them or their stuff but it's a successful way to go for someone who buys and XR6T and can look at a catalogue / website and say I want 230kW at the wheels or 300kW at the wheels and they don't have to think about it. Haltech is different in that it's more of a tuners system in that their other hardware is more flexible because they're full EMS replacements.

He's not knocking them, he's calling a spade a spade. APS do a great job at what they do with a great product line up and until I've seen this result, I was 95% comitted to getting a Unichip.

Clearly I must have come across in away that I not intend to. My experience with Unichip is the following:

* You are not allowed to have the programming software, or wiring diagrams, or anything that would allow you to anything with the system yourself.
* You are not allowed to be involved with the tuning process.
* Unichip dealers sign a contract that says they cannot do anything with competitive piggyback ECU products. So a Unichip dealer cannot install the Haltech.

My comments were more about saying the difference between the Haltech and the Unichip is that the customer can download the software off our website and play with it themselves, take it to their trusted tuner, who can tune it as the customer desires. I was just commenting that most people get a Unichip and pay over the cash and drive out with more power. They get a dyno graph, but can do little themselves. I was in no way trying to knock that approach as it is effective... I was just trying to point out the difference in the Haltech way of doing things.

I have never knocked the technology. In the case of the Magan, it is equivalent to what we do, and we differ in the extra features we offer. If Unichip can make X kw, then we can, and vice versa, as we are doing the same thing.

I apologise if I have offended anyone, I was not intending to, and not intending to knock the product in any way. I still can't see how I did. My comments were in response to Mark thanking me for sharing some of our info and technology to you guys on this thread, and I generalised using Unichip as they would be unlikely to share this info.

Anyway, I will refrain from comment on any other products.

-- Adrian

I don't believe I put the Unichip down. I pride myself in not putting down other products. A good product should sell itself and not require this. Please show me how I put down the Unichip product. I simply pointed out a difference in the was that Haltech works compared to APS. I even stated that they are very successful in what they do, and it is a good way to go for the current performance car market. I believe what they are doing works very well for them, but we work different to apeal to a different market. Please point out my error or retract your comments.

-- Adrian

Looks as though I may have mis-interprated what you where saying, and I also didn't convey what I was trying to say the best, so buy your request I have deleated my post :P .

It was just hard not to get the feeling you where saying your market of people is better then people who pay for mods to get a better performing car form this:


high IT salary customers that hand over a cheque to beat a mates car. Hopefully our market has still got some life in it!!

I know the WRX community well, and the majority of them seem to be high payed IT people who know little about their car and are happy to hand over a handful of cash to get more power so they have bragging rights. APS cashed on this approach in the late 90s, and this I believe is what made them as successful as they are now. That is not to say that all their customers are like that, as in many cars until recently, the Unichip was the only option of ECU mod, so people who were not like that had their hand forced anyway. I am not saying that the people on this forum who have Unichip are like that or otherwise. I was just commenting on the marketing strategy that they have used.... If Haltech had this product 5 years ago, and used the same approach, we would have made alot more money over the last 5 years.... it is a clever business strategy, but not necessarily in the best interest of all potential customers.

-- Adrian

Anyway, I will refrain from comment on any other products.

-- Adrian[/QUOTE]



dont b like that..........

this forum is pretty good with open expressive talk most of the times... :D

C'mon guys, stop scaring away the helpful vendor guy! lol Can't we all just get along? :cool:

so back ontopic,

when do these piggy backs come avalible to buy ?

Adrian

nobody in here really gives two hoots what ppl say about Suppliers.
so long as they arent sponsors !


were usually only out to help each other.

if a company has a pack of wankers worken for em, we all like to know what to expect.

so back ontopic,

when do these piggy backs come avalible to buy ?

They have been available since about September last year, but we have only just done a magna with the product. As a result of that we can now supply a wiring diagram and base map to the installer. So even if you have the first unit we sold, you can still load the latest firmware and base map into it, and use the new wiring diagram to put it in a magna. If you do happen to enquire with a dealer... they may not yet know we support this vehicle, so just get them to gice us a call and we can supply them with everything mentioned above to complete the installation.

-- Adrian

coool cant wait
will enquire next week.

is there any prices out yet ?

I don't think so. I think he's on the money with APS and their marketing. Almost everything they have is a bolt on upgrade including their Unichip. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them or their stuff but it's a successful way to go for someone who buys and XR6T and can look at a catalogue / website and say I want 230kW at the wheels or 300kW at the wheels and they don't have to think about it. Haltech is different in that it's more of a tuners system in that their other hardware is more flexible because they're full EMS replacements.

He's not knocking them, he's calling a spade a spade. APS do a great job at what they do with a great product line up and until I've seen this result, I was 95% comitted to getting a Unichip.

I understand what your saying...I knew a couple of people like that where I used to work. But saying that the majority of people are just high salary IT people who just want to fork out cash to beat a mates car isn't fair.

He appologised for generalising, lets get back to being friends and finding out more (or asking questions of interest) about this great product.

Hey, Adrian. How does it run between open and closed loop? I take it is monitoring the fueling and spark for both mods of operation and adjusting where necessary? Is there tuning therefore done on an open and closed loop scenario?

Is there actually a difference between an economical tune and a powerful tune? I remember people used to say there was but lately I've been told they're one in the same. :confused:

What's involved with tuning? Revving it to the rpm points and then playing with timing and fuelling to achieve an optimum and safe / stable amount of power? What happens between the tuning points? Does the system average it?


I understand what your saying...I knew a couple of people like that where I used to work. But saying that the majority of people are just high salary IT people who just want to fork out cash to beat a mates car isn't fair.
Percentage wise he could be right but the point of his statement isn't that it's exclusive to cashed up nerds. People pick on generalisations because it only mentions one group when that's not the point of a generalisation so it gets taken out of context.

Yeah I know...sorry...I read it after I had replied!

coool cant wait
will enquire next week.

is there any prices out yet ?

Don't be lazy.. read the whole thread :P

$990 RRP for the box. Between $300 and $500 for tuning, depending on the workshop and attention to detail of the tune.

i aint got my glasses on so its kinda hard to read, specially 13 pages worth
but the price could be cheaper then the RRP for AM ?? Maybe ? or am i hopein too high ?

He said u gotta talk to youur local dealer and work out prices with them, Some want to make more money on these items than others (i couldn't be bothered looking for the post he wrote that in)

And some can make it cheaper based on the volume of product they move.

congrats on the gain ego..

Im hoping someone with a few mods will get this to see if their is much variance in the kw gained atw's

In stock form it probably shows that its best to buy all the other bolt on bits before getting a piggyback.. eg: exhaust, extractors, cams....

6kw's atw for $1200 .. its certainly and expensive 6kw's...

The tuning of interceptors is a little different to a full ECU. With a full ECU you have full control of everything everywhere. With an interceptor, the factory ECU will only give you control of mixtures when it is open loop. You can control ignition everywhere, but mixtures can only be controlled in open loop. The factory ECU will tune back to 14.7:1 AFR if you try to make adjustments in the closed loop area. In practise most ECUs go open loop above about 50% throttle, but on EGO, the stock ECU seems to do it base on air flow. I had full mixture control at 100% throttle. I had mixture control from about 4000RPM up at 50% throttle. Below that it would run 14.7:1 AFR as it should.

I have heard that with the mitsubishi ECUs, you can simply disconnect the O2 sensor and it will then run open loop all the time, so that may be worth a try if people need rich mixtures at light throttle openings.

There should be no different between an economical tune and a power tune.. you are in a different area of the tuning map for power to economy. I can say that there is a difference between a tune for good throttle response and a tune for economy. THe only way to get good throttle response is to chuck heaps of fuel in on small throttle movements, but obviously this is not good for economy. In the case of the interceptor, there is little you can do here anyway, since it is in closed loop mode.

-- Adrian

adrian

not gettin much work done atm eh
hhahaha

adrian

not gettin much work done atm eh
hhahaha
Me neither. I keep reading informative / interesting posts.

So, with a switch you can flick between the tune of choice and a dumbed down, low rev limited tune if you hand the car over to someone?

As always im late to join in on this one, but Adrian, on behalf of myself and everyone from AMC I would like to thankyou SO MUCH for taking the time out to answer all our questions :thumbsup:

I just have one, I noticed you mentioned we can download the software and make our own adjustments. If we load the software to a laptop, how do we link the piggyback to the laptop so we can make changes on the run?

Does the software also have data logging capabilities?

Thanks again mate :D

As always im late to join in on this one, but Adrian, on behalf of myself and everyone from AMC I would like to thankyou SO MUCH for taking the time out to answer all our questions

No worries, I hope that people can learn a bit from it to make an educated purchase decision.


I just have one, I noticed you mentioned we can download the software and make our own adjustments. If we load the software to a laptop, how do we link the piggyback to the laptop so we can make changes on the run?

Does the software also have data logging capabilities?

We use a standard DB9 serial modem cable... an extension cable for a mouse. Just use this cable to connect the interceptor to the serial port on your laptop. Alternatively if you do not have a serial port, you can buy a USB to serial adaptor and use that as your cable.

The software has extensive datalogging, but only to the laptop. There is no onboard datalogging in the current firmware though it may be added if I can find the memory space. You can view logs graphically. It is quite handy for monitoring boost levels in turbos and intake temps and even just seeing how you drive. Have a look at the software by downloading it from www.haltech.com

Cheers,

Adrian

Have a look at the software by downloading it from www.haltech.com

Now that's what I call a tidy piece of software. Kudos to your programmers. I don't reckon it could be any simpler to use if you tried :thumbsup:

Thanks Mate!!

Ease of use and quick tuning was the main aim of the software. We are getting good reviews from our tuners also. There is still a bit of work and some bugs to fix, and continually adding stuff. I have just added an extra injector output that could also be used to do progressive NOS. THis will be released shortly.

-- Adrian

Speaking of extra injector stuff. GReddy brag about how their e-Manage is more flexible because it has some whiz-bang aditional injector mapping that's possible. Someone said that if you considered ignition and injection as seperate maps then this is a third one which is something around another duty cycle or something like that. If you like I can try and find the info but several of us who have tried to wrap our heads around it can't for the life of us understand what the dribble is about. I thought maybe that instead of adjusting just injector opening times you could adjust the start and finish of the cycle or something.

But yeah, any chance you've come across this or know what I'm talking about? I know it's not a very good explanation - sorry :confused:.

I know exactly what the Greddy does and we do not do it.

An injector is just a solenoid. One side is connected to a permanent (ignition) supply of 12V, and the other side is connected to the ECU. The ECU pulses that side to ground to turn the injector on and releases it to turn it off. The Greddy gets wired into the wire from the injector to the ECU, and and it monitors what the ECU is doing with the injector, and then when the injection pulse is finished, it holds the injector for a tunable amount of time. So it basically has two methods of adjusting fuel... the first is on the input air flow meter, and the second is directly to the injector.

The problem is that the Greddy can only add fuel to what the stock ECU is doing. It can't remove the ECU pulse. Now this might be an attractive feature on a car where you are having trouble getting enough fuel in, but unfortunately this is not the case in most applications. As you all know, the Magna is like most other factory cars, and it runs too rich standard, so you want to remove fuel... so in most applications, this feature has no benefit. The only time where this feature is useful is sticking forced induction onto an NA car, where the NA car is not mapped for the fuel requirements of the extra air. This is why we have added the extra injector feature also.

Haltech has chosen not to go this way, though we were aware of it when developing the product. Driving injector correctly requires expensive high powered hardware, and in the case of the magna, the ability to drive 6 injectors, which means more pins on the connector which can be difficult to find good connectors (the haltech connector has 24 pins, and is completely water proof for fitment under the bonnet in 4wds, and we have found no higher pin count connectors of this quality). Also, it doubles the amount of wiring of a typical install.

At any rate, Haltech also sells full ECUs, and by the time you get to the stage where you are needing more fuel, we would normally recommend that you go to a full ECU, with completely fully programable injector outputs.

I hope that explains how they work. They may be of benefit in some applications, but not in most.

-- Adrian

Thats clears up alot between the Greddy E-Manage and the Haltech Interceptor.

Just want to be clear on something, basically Im going to be putting in a NOS kit to my VRX in about 4-6 months and will be running 2 maps. 1 map will be for everyday driving (tunedd as high as possible) and the other map will be used for nos (which will be very rich to prevent detonation as i'll be running a dry system)

Basically the Haltech Interceptor will be able to switch between maps at the flick of a switch instead of having to boot up the latop and swap maps over via that? If this is the case I would seriously consider not fitting the emanage.

I just wanted to add that the Greddy does what we do plus this extra feature they talk about. They can still pull fuel out like we can. It is just that this feature that they lay claim to is not that useful for the Magna application. We have considered adding it, but the complexity is similar to our cheaper full ECUs.

I am sure that a Greddy, Unichip, or Haltech interceptor can all get similar tuning results. YOu want to make your choise based mostly on aditional features and their application to your requirement, price, and the ability to get your trusted tuner to do the work.

-- Adrian

Hi Adrian,

You're probably not the best person to talk about this, but would it possible to get the RS-232 communication codes/commands to communicate with the Interceptor? I know there would be a few here who may be in interest of some sort of a real-time diagnostic software. Whilst the current software does have data logging capabilities, it would still require the user to continue "refreshing" the screen to get the latest data, and even then it would be raw unformatted data.

It would also allow the potential for access to the Interceptor to be accessed by other Operating systems as well.

Thats clears up alot between the Greddy E-Manage and the Haltech Interceptor.

Just want to be clear on something, basically Im going to be putting in a NOS kit to my VRX in about 4-6 months and will be running 2 maps. 1 map will be for everyday driving (tunedd as high as possible) and the other map will be used for nos (which will be very rich to prevent detonation as i'll be running a dry system)

Basically the Haltech Interceptor will be able to switch between maps at the flick of a switch instead of having to boot up the latop and swap maps over via that? If this is the case I would seriously consider not fitting the emanage.

Most NOX applications have an extra injector in the manifold or tb don't they? Your BIG RED TOP GUN switch when "on" earths the solenoid and permits the injector to fire in sequence. This will bew difficult to do on sequentially injected cars unless the Haltech can run a 6 inj map and a 7inj map??

If it is the same as other magna models, we would like to support it. There is a good chance it is the same as EGOs car, as Mitsubish do not change much ECU wise over the years. Obviously if it is a one off, then it is not worth our while to do it, but a good Haltech dealer may be interested in doing it if they can get the wiring diagrams for it. I am confident the Haltech interceptor can do it, but it is a matter of getting a wiring diagram for it.


Cheers mate, it's actually not the same as the magna's as it runs distributorless ignition (direct fire wasted spark). I have ALLLLLLLL the tech info you could ever find on this motor, wiring diagrams, rebuild manual, pin outputs for the ecu etc etc...

Any chance you could private message me any Haltech dealers/installers near the richmond/windsor/penrith NSW area?

Thanks mate!

Cheers mate, it's actually not the same as the magna's as it runs distributorless ignition (direct fire wasted spark). I have ALLLLLLLL the tech info you could ever find on this motor, wiring diagrams, rebuild manual, pin outputs for the ecu etc etc...

Any chance you could private message me any Haltech dealers/installers near the richmond/windsor/penrith NSW area?

Thanks mate!
Yes, it is distributor less, but it still uses the same signals from the crank and cam. The mitsubishis (even EVOs etc) are different to most other manufaturers in that the cam pulses 4 times per cam revolution (for ignition and injection), and the crank once (for home signal) for 4 cylinders. It pulses (obviously) 6 times per cam revolution (for ignition and injection) and the crank once (for home signal). The engines would be very easy to drop the distributor and run coils for each cylinder using an aftermarket ECU. The trigger signal (cam) supports this no probs (wasted spark only though).

The injectors are not sequential, they fire in pairs (twice) for every revolution. The ignition is the same (i.e wasted spark) for those without a distributor. With a distributor only 1 ignition output is present, and simply fires all 6 times (on each trigger event) per cam revolution i.e instead of going 1-2-3-1-2-3 it goes 1-1-1-1-1-1 :). The drawback with this setup is that you can never know if its cyclinder 1 or 4 thats at TDC for ignition. Hence why paired injection and wasted spark only.

If anything mitsubishis trigger signal is easier to program for than say a 60-2 or similar trigger wheel. Simply because each pulse from the cam signifies a "fire" event. Its the delay placed after this signal that would be your timing, effectively a retard from say a fixed 30 degrees BTDC.

With a multitoothed trigger wheel you have to "calculate" the engine angle, and instigate your own "fire" events :)

The interceptor style ECU does not work like a normal replacment ECU. It works with the stock ECU. It adjusts the air flow meter to control mixtures, and the crank/cam sensor signal to adjust ignition timing. It has nothing to do with the injector outputs or the ignition outputs of the standard ECU, so it makes little difference that the car is direct fire, wasted spark, or distributor. Note that the Magna was identical to the EVO which is wasted spark 4 cylinder!!

I suspect that the interceptor can go onto this engine exactly as the EGO.

As for dealers... please check the dealer section of our website: www.haltech.com

We have a number of dealers in Sydney's west.

-- Adrian

hey, adrian, you should get my car in the haltech gallery!!!

hey, adrian, you should get my car in the haltech gallery!!!


Is mine there..??

I don't do any of the gallery stuff, but if you send me photos, I will dens them to our graphic artist and they MAY use it.

I havn't even check it out myself in quite a while!~!

-- Adrian

I don't do any of the gallery stuff, but if you send me photos, I will dens them to our graphic artist and they MAY use it.

I havn't even check it out myself in quite a while!~!

-- Adrian


Got a email adress you want me to send them to adrain..??


BTW have you guys got anything going to auto saloon in may in the way of a stand or anything....??

send them to adrian@haltech.com.au and I wil forward them. No gaurantees though!!

-- Adrian

Hi All,

I recently found out that I have made an error in the prices I quoted here. Please don't roast me on the BBQ for this, but the prices are higher than what I originally said... higher by approx GST, but I was a little low on my base price also. Note that I work in R&D and not sales, and I had the wrong pricing in my head.

The recommended retail price of an interceptor including GST is $1150. Note that the price I quoted previously was approx trade price, and you cannot buy direct from Haltech, so I am used to quoting this minimum price to dealers. Your dealer is correct to quote a retail of $1150.

Now note that the important thing for you is not the price of the interceptor, as you will have to get it fitted and tuned. The important thing for you is the total cost of the job, and the dealer you work with will obviously pay less for it then the retail. They will then work out how much they mark up the price to the customer, and how much they charge for the fitting and tuning. I still stand by the original estimate that the cost of a fitted and tuned interceptor is $12-1500. We set out pricing based on the competition, and our aim is to provide better functionality and more features than the competition at a similar price point. You will find if you shop around that this is a similar price to the Unichip... unless the dealer is doing you favour cause he knows you well which will no doubt happen with our units as well.

Again apologies, but I doubt it will make any difference....... remember to compare the price of the completed job.

Cheers,

Adrian

would they be interested in using one for the 4 cylder TE?

would they be interested in using one for the 4 cylder TE?

the ECU harness would still be the same...

can be done. if your intrested, go see a haltech dealer insydney.

Haltech is running a business, and we are interested in doing any car that will result in sales of the product. Dallas has been requesting the magna, so we did what we thought to be the most popular from a performance standpoint model... the VRX. Now perhaps you guys can help by giving me some info on the magan demographic... what is the most common model for you guys in the forum to modify? Am I likely to sell alot for a TE 4 cylinder? We would like top support all cars, but with limitted R&D time, we have to throw resources at markets we can make money in.... We are a business after all. Anyway, advice from you guys would be appreciated. As stated earlier, I actually suspect that most models of the last 5-6 years will be supported with the same wiring diagram as Mitsubish have not changed much in the ECU that the Haltech works with (crank sensor, AFM).

ANyway, advice appreciated!!

Cheers,

Adrian

Haltech is running a business, and we are interested in doing any car that will result in sales of the product. Dallas has been requesting the magna, so we did what we thought to be the most popular from a performance standpoint model... the VRX. Now perhaps you guys can help by giving me some info on the magan demographic... what is the most common model for you guys in the forum to modify? Am I likely to sell alot for a TE 4 cylinder? We would like top support all cars, but with limitted R&D time, we have to throw resources at markets we can make money in.... We are a business after all. Anyway, advice from you guys would be appreciated. As stated earlier, I actually suspect that most models of the last 5-6 years will be supported with the same wiring diagram as Mitsubish have not changed much in the ECU that the Haltech works with (crank sensor, AFM).

ANyway, advice appreciated!!

Cheers,

Adrian

i dare say there are two "cars" that would really be the "majority" in this forum

a) Magna, 3.0L 6G72 147kw 4speed auto
b) Magna, 3.5L 6G74 152kw 4speed auto
c) Magna, 3.5L 6G74 152kw 4speed tiptronic
d) Magna, 3.5L 6G74 152kw 5speed tiptronic
e) Magna, 3.5L 6G74 152kw 5speed Manual

EGO's car should be just a varient of "B". you should be able to use the "VRX" tuning to attached to vehicle "B, d, e"

essentually all the same vehicle with only "exhaust" modifications.

there is no reason why a "stock" 3.5 wont be able to change power output to what ego has atm, with just a muffler change + haltech install..

I am confident that b,c,d,e will all be technically the same in terms of harness and setup, though the tune done by the dealer may differ due to exhaust mods and other mods the car may have. I am 90% sure that a would also be the same, but the tune would likely be a little different... but that is up to the tuner... so I believe we support all those vehicles currently, but await confirmation of a 3.0L.

-- Adrian

I am confident that b,c,d,e will all be technically the same in terms of harness and setup, though the tune done by the dealer may differ due to exhaust mods and other mods the car may have. I am 90% sure that a would also be the same, but the tune would likely be a little different...
Agreed.


so I believe we support all those vehicles currently, but await confirmation of a 3.0L.
Does this mean you'll need a 3.0l 24v in your workshop or could it be any Haltech retailer?

I am 99% sure it will work, so I am willing to give the go ahead to any Haltech dealer, and we can provide support from our office if it is required, but I think it will be straight forward.

-- Adrian

Based on my experiance I am 99% certain there isnt any difference between wiring of the 3.0L & 3.5L in terms of injectors and ignition.

As I said in another thread, the 6G74 came in two different sets of cam profiles (Not including Ralliart, which would make it three), the ones on the TH compared to the TJ. So tuning on a TH 3.5L motor may not reach the same potential as Ego's.

Haltech is running a business, and we are interested in doing any car that will result in sales of the product. Dallas has been requesting the magna, so we did what we thought to be the most popular from a performance standpoint model... the VRX. Now perhaps you guys can help by giving me some info on the magan demographic... what is the most common model for you guys in the forum to modify? Am I likely to sell alot for a TE 4 cylinder? We would like top support all cars, but with limitted R&D time, we have to throw resources at markets we can make money in.... We are a business after all. Anyway, advice from you guys would be appreciated. As stated earlier, I actually suspect that most models of the last 5-6 years will be supported with the same wiring diagram as Mitsubish have not changed much in the ECU that the Haltech works with (crank sensor, AFM).

ANyway, advice appreciated!!

Cheers,

Adrian

IMHO the 6G74 is the only format worth serious investment for your company. If you can do the 6G72 as well that would be great but the fact is that there a just so many more 3.5's out there and on the forums. Don't reply to this and tell me I'm a dolt etc, I own a 3L and a 3.5L and sure would like to see devel on both. Which car am I going to spend the cash on when push comes to shove? The 6G74 because it will always pull more ponies for the money.

IMHO the 6G74 is the only format worth serious investment for your company. If you can do the 6G72 as well that would be great but the fact is that there a just so many more 3.5's out there and on the forums. Don't reply to this and tell me I'm a dolt etc, I own a 3L and a 3.5L and sure would like to see devel on both. Which car am I going to spend the cash on when push comes to shove? The 6G74 because it will always pull more ponies for the money.

Thing is, this Haltech computer will work on just about any EFI car on the planet. The question is whether it is worth Haltech's time as a company to "officially" support the car by providing wiring diagrams, maybe a wiring harness adapter, and a 'default' tune to their dealers.

I think the wiring side of things is taken care of by virtue of the ECU wiring being much the same between the 6G74 and the 6G72.. the default tune can happen the first time someone with a 3L straps in the chip and sends the results back to the vendor..

My money is on Redav being the first taker from the 3L camp :D

hmm i think it might be close which 3Ltr has them next
dam slow americans

I might give rpm here in adelaide a call next week and see what they say.

IMHO the 6G74 is the only format worth serious investment for your company. If you can do the 6G72 as well that would be great but the fact is that there a just so many more 3.5's out there and on the forums. Don't reply to this and tell me I'm a dolt etc, I own a 3L and a 3.5L and sure would like to see devel on both. Which car am I going to spend the cash on when push comes to shove? The 6G74 because it will always pull more ponies for the money.

there may be a lot of 3.5L owners, but there are also a lot of 3.0L owners too!

As stated previously, the Interceptor will likely support all models. Generally at Haltech we provide a base map with the unit to get the car running much the same as it drove in. It is not a performance tune, as we don;t know the mods on the car. Interceptor are very quick to tune compared to a normal ECU. The factory ECU is already pretty close for idle and light load, so you are tuning high load stuff only. Once a dealer has done one, he will have map that he can use in other similar cars that will reduce his tuning time. I can provide EGOs map to anyone as a reference, but all tuners have different ideas.

Anyway, so I suggest that 3.0L owners as well as 3.5L owners if interested should contact a dealer near them. It will make little difference which model it is to the tuner anyway. I am not 100% sure of the ECU situation with the 4 cylinder, but it is likely also to be the same.

-- Adrian

Adrian,

Would the interceptor be able to run a MIVEC engine, say the 6G72 DOHC MIVEC, running as a piggy-back, or is a full replacement Haltek ECU required?

Thanks,
-Dan Grec

u will be able to run mivec with its original computer,
but if u wanted to use a manual box you would need a rull replacement ecu

Adrain is there any chance i can get a copy of the Torque sheet from my dyno run.. everyone is telling me thats what counts..


Cheers
Jason

hey ego hows ya petrol been ???

i'll be getting one fitted within the next 2 weeks soon as i get a day off work


also cant be bothered reading through this whole thread, but will they be able to use with say a turbo or supercharger ? or maybe a twin turbo...

hey ego hows ya petrol been ???

also cant be bothered reading through this whole thread, but will they be able to use with say a turbo or supercharger ? or maybe a twin turbo...


Petrol is good.. cant really tell cause all ive done is give it a hard time since i got it back.. will have Quarter mile differances on Wed nite..

Yes turbo or supercharger is fine.. Thats the only reason i got it.. once the cars out of warranty.. Supercharger here we come..

nice,
i'll finally have a 1/4 mile time on wednesday too...

give me a couple of months maybe less depening on other expenses supercharge or turbs will be on

Hey Eg's do you know if they will install tune and dyno the GReddy Emanage's if so let me know as i have had one for nearly a year and haven't had it installed yet

Grecy,

The interceptor can probably run the MIVEC engine as long as you have the stock ECU to run this engine... otherwise you need a full ECU.

Jason,

The people who request the torque curve have no idea. I have explained the reason for this previously. It can be fudged so easily, and in the vast majority of cases, I believe the dyno operator would have fudged it unintentionally. You have to add extra info to the dyno to read it accurately, and even then it is only so accurate... an estimate more than a measurement. Do they want tractive effort or torque. Tractive effort is more common and is effected by things like aftermarket wheels etc. So is torque. I can give you what you want, but I can just see it ending in tears. If you have bigger wheels than normal, the reading will be lower, but because the dyno senses the rollers spinning faster, the power should still read accurately. Anyway, tell me what you are after, and I will get it. Just realise that Power is the best reading for comparing one car to another. Torque is only useful for comparing different runs on the same car.

MadMik,

We don't install any ECU other than our own for testing. We will not install cars other than for our own testing, and we will forward you to a dealer who can do the install for you.

-- Adrian

Here you go Scott and Adrian... here are the results for your good product and my driving skills combined...

after the time is the 60`, 330` 660`&mph and the 1000` time..

14.770@152.85kmh 2.296 6.264 9.553 74.05mph 12.384
14.732@147.56kmh 2.304 6.238 9.505 76.51mph 12.339
14.790@147.15kmh 2.342 6.281 9.552 76.36mph 12.392
14.749@151.51kmh 2.206 6.190 9.489 73.78mph 12.337
14.820@151.81kmh 2.282 6.286 9.591 73.77mph 12.425

The only thing i did differant all nite did not change into 4th on the last run, just ring the neck out of 3rd to 6500rpm to see what happened.. forth it is from now on...


Previous best was 14.972@90mph... good differance.. :D :D

The interceptor can probably run the MIVEC engine as long as you have the stock ECU to run this engine... otherwise you need a full ECU.
The main issue about this engine is that it only came with an auto. I think the main school of thought is that the ECU won't like the fact that it's auto is missing and go to some limp mode or something. However I've also been told that Diamantes only ever had ECU and TCU's so this lends me to think that it might be possible to use on without a replacement system. I also wonder how it will go on our crappy fuels. I know the GDI one won't like ours as it has too much sulphur.

Yo.... Anybody got tunes?

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.. Thats a thread mine.. I dont think anyone here does. Try contacting Haltech. Tune will be useless really, you are better get your car to suit the mods.