Hey all,
Just wondering - ive noticed on peoples sig's that half have pods, and half have panel filters.
I had a pod on my VT which basically sat right at the front and behind the headlight and didnt travel far to the throttle body so i went for the pod, now, the magna im buying (of course fwd set up) the intake over the radiator to the airbox, then to the manifold has a long way to travel - for those with pods, is it installed where the airbox is/was?
what kits are online that i can do some reasearch?
or am i just better off getting a panel filter for the box itself?

i dont want to do too much mods to it, its just meant to be a daily driver thats comfy and cruisy - all my $$ is going towards my house deposit! (bloody sydney prices..)

also - i have read a few threads on exhaust systems for 1999 th maggies.
so the best gain is to change the rear muffler?
and/or headers too?
whats are peoples thoughts?

once again, trying not to modify the car - but most likely will as halfmy mates are bagging me out for getting a magna - and i just want to show them some proof that they are nice and can be reletively quick!

thanks all,
chris

Why did you go from a VT Commodore to a TH Magna? Insurance? Anyway I think you should go for a panel filter, unless you have a well organised CAI. Use the search function on the forum for panel filters and pod filters and you will see heaps of discussion already covered. If you don't want to spend much money on the car but want a small gain I would just go and get a K and N panel filter and a Lukey LR2779 rear muffler. If you don't want to spend much this is all I would do.

pleeease do a search...

another pod vs panel and i'm goin to :tantrum:

Why did you go from a VT Commodore to a TH Magna? Insurance? .


Thanks for the reply mate - few reasons - i need to save money and get my unit/house before half the year is over.
The VT was a gen3 - so 400hp in sydney traffic was not good at all! sick of filling it up at 60-70bucks a week. insurance is 500 cheaper too.
and plus , i want something different now! had the car for 3 & a bit years - had my fun, time to move on!

i used the search function but cant find what im after! (i know - im sick of newbies on other forums posting stuff like me!! :D )
thanks again for the help mate,
chris

Ok, well i've tried everything when it comes to this so here are my findings :D

K&N Panel Filter is a good, cheap and easy mod which you can feel a slight increase accross the whole powerband. I had this on my last magna (later swapped to a pod, then swapped back). The best thing to do is remove the induction scoop to the airbox and replace it with 100mm flexible heater ducting avaliable from all good hardware stores and route it down low behind the front bumper (I removed the fog light cover in my TE and it sat there perfectly). This setup was quiet, worked well and you could feel it working nicely on the freeway with the CAI in place.

A K&N Pod filter kit just replaces the airbox assembly and mounts up to the MAS sensor. Make sure you use the oval pod kit (i dont know the model number, but someone will) which is made for the Mitsu MAS sensors, universal pods do all sorts of weird things to airflow readings which lead to running problems. The pod will flow better and sound AWESOME but unless you route some CAI piping up to it and sheild it from the heat, it will just suck hot underbonnet air and rob you of power, you can feel this when taking off from the lights.

I have the K&N CAI Kit which was made for the Mitsubishi Eclipse but I modified to fit the magna. I purchased it through RPW some time ago but they do charge a bit for it. You can buy it reasonably cheap from the US. This kit relocated the pod filter and MAS sensor so it sits behind the front bar and only sucks in cold air from outside. The kit looks, sounds and performs beautifully, I love it! But your looking at a good 400 for it so not the cheapest option.

My advice, if your on a budget, stick with a nice K&N panel with CAI piping to replace the stock snorkle and replace the rear muffler with a straight through design, you will pick up a fair few kw and increase fuel economy.

Hope this helps

Blake.

Unless you get your cai going and get the car professionally tuned afterwards....there will be more loss of performance than a gain....magnas arent designed to have pods on them, so stick with the panel filter.......or when you put a pod on.......the car needs to be specially tuned for the new mod. An aftermarket ecu like those greddy emanage i have heard are awesome for aftermarket air filter parts for n/a cars.

well I tried my pod out on the quarter last Friday, with disapointing results, but my pod is not shielded from hot air yet. Hopefully this friday I will switch back to panel and try again to see what the difference is and then decide on what I am going to do long term... it will be interesting... but yeah, the pod KILLED my launch sucking in the heat (track temp was over 40 degrees too during the day)... if you go the pod, do it properly... mine cant stay the way it is.

blake, care to post a pic of your CAI setup??

Hey what year eclipse are those? :D

thank you all for the replies!
:)

i had a pod on the vt (unifilter) and my car was the test car for the pod and airbox.
before the airbox i took it to the drags and the hot air killed my times.
so i know what your saying!
and the unifilter cai for the gen3's were 375 so yes, they arent cheap things - so i think ill go the panel filter!

yeah i dont want to spend too much on tuning or anything - that was all done on the last car, basically just want a tad bit more power to keep me happy!
so thats why air filter and rear muffler will do for me :)

yes if you have a pic of the cold air set up with the 100mm pipe i would love to see it!
(i understand if you dont want to show your mod! :D )

thank you all for the replies!
:)

i had a pod on the vt (unifilter) and my car was the test car for the pod and airbox.
before the airbox i took it to the drags and the hot air killed my times.
so i know what your saying!
and the unifilter cai for the gen3's were 375 so yes, they arent cheap things - so i think ill go the panel filter!

yeah i dont want to spend too much on tuning or anything - that was all done on the last car, basically just want a tad bit more power to keep me happy!
so thats why air filter and rear muffler will do for me :)

yes if you have a pic of the cold air set up with the 100mm pipe i would love to see it!
(i understand if you dont want to show your mod! :D )

what times you run in your gen3 mate?

As I've stated in other posts, the K&N panel filter gives absolutely no increase in power in a Magna. This has been dyno tested, same day, same car, same dyno. I've also dyno tested my car without any filter at all, and there's still no difference in power (but you do get a great sounding induction roar). I'll also say that the dyno workshop has also never seen any dyno-proven increase in power from a K&N panel.

In other words the standard Mitsu paper filter is not restrictive and is far cheaper than a K&N panel (note: a full CAI may deliver extra power, I'm talking panels only).

Well I would have to disagree because one of the guys from the diamante forums did a dyno run with and without a k&n panel he saw a small gain atw. :D

Well I would have to disagree because one of the guys from the diamante forums did a dyno run with and without a k&n panel he saw a small gain atw. :D

Yeah but was that tiny gain worth the $120 ripoff for the filter?
Unless you go a fully shielded pod with CAI I believe that 'performance' panel filters and pods are a waste of money.
3Gen magnas already have a very good intake and flowing panel.

My 2c

Well I am just stating what he found on the dyno not arguing if its a waste of money or not. I got s pod filter and I felt a hp difference the minute I put it on. mid-range to top end was much better. You won't get much power from intake but the purpose of a intake is to let the engine breath easier and help with subsequent mods such as headers, ported throttle body etc etc.

Iam just lucky that the pod on my skyline doesnt matter if the air coming in is hot or not....the intercooler does that job for me :)

On a typical dyno run, the vehicle is run harder and at higher speeds than it would have normally been doing on the streets prior to bring it in (ie. you don't - or shouldn't - drive that hard on the streets!).

So, the Magna ECU, whether manual or auto, will take several runs on the dyno to "learn" the new way it's being driven and will respond accordingly by opening up and producing a bit more top-end power. Hence, never have just one run on a dyno and call it quits - it usually takes about three runs to get an accurate ECU-adjusted read-out.

Jay04: I would be amazed if after say the third run with a standard filter, he swapped it over to a K&N panel and then got a noticable power increase. If he did it after the first run, then it will show an increase, but the car would do that anyway as the ECU adjusts.

At the end of the day, if I can't get a power increase with the air filter removed, then how's a K&N panel going to do any better? I have the dyno print outs to prove it on a Ralliart.

yep a new rear muffler and a K&N panel with some PVC 90mm CAI piping is all i've got in my 3.0L manual and its got me down into low 15's. Total cost of mods, $320 :D

Do the same on your TH and you will be cracking 14's I'd say

I will post up some pics of my K&N CAI Kit when i get home, its currently in pieces while i paint / HPC coat my engine bay and do a few other little things.

I will vouch that my K&N CAI Kit performs, but i mostly bought it for looks and the sound :D But you can seriously feel the difference from 3000-6000 rpm!

I did a dyno in stock form and recorded 120.2kw at the front wheeks. After the K&N CAI Kit and Pacemaker Extractors I recorded 131.7kw at the front wheels. I reckon the exctrators gave about about 8kw and the CAI gave me about 4kw.

On a typical dyno run, the vehicle is run harder and at higher speeds than it would have normally been doing on the streets prior to bring it in (ie. you don't - or shouldn't - drive that hard on the streets!).

So, the Magna ECU, whether manual or auto, will take several runs on the dyno to "learn" the new way it's being driven and will respond accordingly by opening up and producing a bit more top-end power. Hence, never have just one run on a dyno and call it quits - it usually takes about three runs to get an accurate ECU-adjusted read-out.

Jay04: I would be amazed if after say the third run with a standard filter, he swapped it over to a K&N panel and then got a noticable power increase. If he did it after the first run, then it will show an increase, but the car would do that anyway as the ECU adjusts.

At the end of the day, if I can't get a power increase with the air filter removed, then how's a K&N panel going to do any better? I have the dyno print outs to prove it on a Ralliart.


You'd have to ask him how he did his dyno. I know he already had the panel couple months
before he took his car to the dyno so I am sure the computer had already adjusted to it. Anyway we can argue about this all day long and we will not come to any conclusion. Just go the track and run the car you will be able to tell if your car gained anything judging by the trap speed.

replacing air filters has a hardly noticable gain (on a dyno) and imho the only reason ide get a K&N would be to save money on purchasing paper elements.

replacing air filters has a hardly noticable gain (on a dyno) and imho the only reason ide get a K&N would be to save money on purchasing paper elements.

Totally agree. I know the received wisdom and "seat of the pants" testing all show the K&N panel is a winner, but I think as far as the Magna is concerned it's a bit a marketing trick. Remember, there are some vehicles that have very restrictive air intakes (I believe some Nissans for example were very poor in this regard, and therefore benefitted from new filters). But in the case of the Magna, it just isn't the case.

I notice people always talk about how they fitted a K&N panel and some extractors and noticed the difference. Well, of course there'll be a difference...from the extractors though!

Also a standard filter is $40 from Mitsu. That means you'd go through around three new filters before you equalled the cost of one K&N panel. That's alot of driving or alot of driving in very, very dirty conditions to equal the cost.

Hey, on my last car, TH Sports auto, I bought the sales pitch, and got a K&N Panel, and it's now sitting back in its box. I won't bother fitting it to the Ralliart (anybody want to buy a near new filter - especially now I've slagged them off??!!)

Also I think we're veering into comparing apples and oranges. This discussion was on the K&N panel. I won't argue that a properly set-up CAI will probably help.

The learning that the ECU does is mainly for the transmission and possibly for driving style. If there's an increase in air flow within a reasonable range then the ECU will vary fueling there and then, it won't take ages to learn. I saw a 10HP difference between a paper and K&N.

Someone else felt that their K&N died after 3 - 4 recharges therefore this cancelled out the savings from the filter. I've only recharged mine once and I've been told it was done during at least one service.


Redavs on the mark as usual, there no learning in an ecu - it's all on the fly, the only learning occurs in the transmission - Theres a map the ecu runs on, it has limits, usually these are set by the output signal capabilities of the sensors and or the sensitivity of them once you go past these limits you will run into issues. Try turbocharging an engine leaving the ecu standard - it wont and can't learn to keep up with the boost(injector flow aside) just doesn't happen. The inputs and outputs have milisecond delays, thats all it takes for the ecu to adjust to changes.

Also in the long run a k&n will save you money, but you have to own your car for a while - but as far as filtration goes I'd back the standard mitsu filter to keep more crap out.

Matthius

Well at WOT the ecu switches to a different map where all tuning is done. So yeah the ecu is reading on the fly. Only time ecu takes a while to adjust is when not running at wot.

How often would you guys typically go through a filter then? In order to equal the same cost as one K&N Panel, you would need to go through three standard filters. That seems like a lot of kms. Under normal, mostly urban driving, I just don't see how it can be value for money?

Given the dyno tests without any filter at all which show the same the power ratings gained with a standard filter. If that's the case then it's not the filter that's restrictive and therefore how can a K&N panel improve the power? Just wondering...

I seen a th magna receive gains(not much) from removing a stock paper filter on a dyno and running no filter same car same dyno ,same day so i am not saying it would be great but there may be some merit to the k&n panel filter.This was done on graham wests dyno as well and it was an amc member too. :D

meh, no dyno is going to simulate driving on the highway, which is where a CAI mod is most noticeable. Plus, just cos peak power has risen 0% doesnt mean it isnt a worthwhile mod. I dunno about peak power, but i am positive my CAI and K&N setup gave me more power down low and mid range.

Okay well I just removed TH Smokers kit and went back standard today. Car has noticably lost pull it used to have and doesn't rev as freely as it used to.
It has however gained torque between 5 grand and redline, where it used to drop off quite abit.

I removed the kit due to colder/rainier weather on the way.
I'm considering running some piping down under the car like Tim-E did (I think) to see how that goes.

I will miss the ****ing awsome induction sound and the way the car absolutely hammered when it was around 10-12 degreese outside. :(

well why don't you just put pod near the engine bay, no CAI. It'll still have the pull and not loose any power at those rpms. Its still gonna be way better than a panel filter.

Its still gonna be way better than a panel filter.

haha, i can now see why this topic has started so many arguments on this site

well why don't you just put pod near the engine bay, no CAI. It'll still have the pull and not loose any power at those rpms. Its still gonna be way better than a panel filter.

cause a pod in your engine bay is like tits on a bull, useless.

whats wrong with panels anyway, their fine.

edit: probably should be more specific, an unenclosed pod in your engine bay is bad cause it sux in hot air, a setup like EZ Boys is the go if you want a pod, or you can put a k&n panel in take the snorkel off and run some piping to your front bar.........

well why don't you just put pod near the engine bay, no CAI. It'll still have the pull and not loose any power at those rpms. Its still gonna be way better than a panel filter.

Having a pod in the engine bay would just be sucking hot air which would deem the OEM induction setup more efficient.

I luv this debate and I never get sick of posting these pics:

BTW I got Torque in spades with this setup and 3" catback. Ask Brick - he's a hardcore manual man too, very hard to impress.

yes EZ BOYS set up is very nice mite end up traveling along a simlar path my self. definatly a nice torque, would be better manual though mate :D

would be better manual though mate :D

:bowrofl: :bowrofl:

When they make one I'll be there!!

EVO box is your friend, dunno if you could make it work but just imagine if it was possible

Thats a pro looking install man, The only to make the pod worth it!

cause a pod in your engine bay is like tits on a bull, useless.

whats wrong with panels anyway, their fine.

edit: probably should be more specific, an unenclosed pod in your engine bay is bad cause it sux in hot air, a setup like EZ Boys is the go if you want a pod, or you can put a k&n panel in take the snorkel off and run some piping to your front bar.........

have you tried? I tried panel and just pod, the pod works better than panel. Is a panel any better with that little tiny hole the air goes into?

I luv this debate and I never get sick of posting these pics:

and i'll never get sick of looking at them. You should make a few up and sell them. You can guarantee people will buy it, just look at TH smokers kit.

and i'll never get sick of looking at them. You should make a few up and sell them. You can guarantee people will buy it, just look at TH smokers kit.

The materials alone for the box were around $60-70, I don't know if people can stomach that after paying $200? for the POD. Doesn't everyone just cpoy TH Smoker's kit - not actually purchase it?

The materials alone for the box were around $60-70, I don't know if people can stomach that after paying $200? for the POD. Doesn't everyone just cpoy TH Smoker's kit - not actually purchase it?
whats funny is my DIY page has had 850 hits and only 1 person i know of has made the kit themself, and i think iv sold about 8 kits

iv tryed a few differnt cold air setups, my first one was a flexable 3" pipe from the front bar too the air box, then twin 3" pipes from empty fog lights into single 4" too air box, then that with a pod in the air box, the flexable pipe stuff just looks too dodgie for my likeing, my last setup looks and seems to work the best, but iv got some new idea's for the current setup just need a car to try them on

whats funny is my DIY page has had 850 hits and only 1 person i know of has made the kit themself, and i think iv sold about 8 kits

iv tryed a few differnt cold air setups, my first one was a flexable 3" pipe from the front bar too the air box, then twin 3" pipes from empty fog lights into single 4" too air box, then that with a pod in the air box, the flexable pipe stuff just looks too dodgie for my likeing, my last setup looks and seems to work the best, but iv got some new idea's for the current setup just need a car to try them on

No wonder there's been 850 and counting; it's a top resource!

I posted pics of my air box last year and had people trying to place orders for it. Fair enuf. I'll try to get a MUCH better rate on acrylic (I know it can handle the heat and scratching from handling) and try to do as much as possible to make it a bolt-in kit. The hassle is that everyone's cai intake is different. I think 76.2mm and 90mm are the most common sizes. 90mm is common in plumbing and has lots of fittings available for custom work.

How did you think the twin pipes went compared to other arrangements you fitted??

the twin setup worked well, but it was ugly and not much room for it, i used a pvc Y join witch was huge and only just fitted, i was mainly trying to get a force affect witch only realy work at high speed low rpm

just a messy job

the twin setup worked well, but it was ugly and not much room for it, i used a pvc Y join witch was huge and only just fitted, i was mainly trying to get a force affect witch only realy work at high speed low rpm

just a messy job

I'm thinking about runing several small diameter tubes as feeds to the airbox. Why? All these people with Physics degrees tell me that air moves faster thru narrower pipes. We know this from header research, so I thought I'd try to insert this thinking into the intake side.

Imagine you have a glass of Coke. Put a straw in and start sucking. You can exert a LOT of suction for a fair result. Ok put a lenght of 12mm garden hose in. Good, strong suction and you drain the glass even quicker than with the drinking straw - or 2 straws at once for that matter.

Now place a 2" pipe in. Wow, bet you can move some fluid with this yeah? Wrong. You can't generate enuf suction to get any Coke in your mouth at all. So somewhere around the garden hose diametre pipe was the most efficient suction size for your mouth and lungs (motor).

Engines inhale/suck air so we need to do it the same favour. Since both the 6G72 and 6G74 have the same 65mm TB opening and intake system, I doubt very much that they are tuned diameter pipes.

So my next adventure begins. :D

I'm thinking about runing several small diameter tubes as feeds to the airbox. Why? All these people with Physics degrees tell me that air moves faster thru narrower pipes. We know this from header research, so I thought I'd try to insert this thinking into the intake side.

Imagine you have a glass of Coke. Put a straw in and start sucking. You can exert a LOT of suction for a fair result. Ok put a lenght of 12mm garden hose in. Good, strong suction and you drain the glass even quicker than with the drinking straw - or 2 straws at once for that matter.

Now place a 2" pipe in. Wow, bet you can move some fluid with this yeah? Wrong. You can't generate enuf suction to get any Coke in your mouth at all. So somewhere around the garden hose diametre pipe was the most efficient suction size for your mouth and lungs (motor).

Engines inhale/suck air so we need to do it the same favour. Since both the 6G72 and 6G74 have the same 65mm TB opening and intake system, I doubt very much that they are tuned diameter pipes.

So my next adventure begins. :DSounds good, keep in mind a 300mm pipe can draw air quicker than a 100mm pipe because the air has time to swirl causeing an almost tornato affect, eg: fill a 1.5ltr coke bottle with water and time how long it takes to empty it, now fill it again but before you empty it hold it upsidedown and get the water spining cw and it will empty quicker!..........so with the air with more swirl makes it easyer for you engine to get, just like gravity pulling the water out of the bottle!, i basic built my setup on that

i think intake runners are built on the same thing.......long runners for top end and short runners for bottom end

agreeedd

Sounds good, keep in mind a 300mm pipe can draw air quicker than a 100mm pipe because the air has time to swirl causeing an almost tornato affect, eg: fill a 1.5ltr coke bottle with water and time how long it takes to empty it, now fill it again but before you empty it hold it upsidedown and get the water spining cw and it will empty quicker!..........so with the air with more swirl makes it easyer for you engine to get, just like gravity pulling the water out of the bottle!, i basic built my setup on that

i think intake runners are built on the same thing.......long runners for top end and short runners for bottom end

Remember that the swirling water empties faster because air can enter the bottle thru the centre of the vortex and eliminate the vacuum holding the water in the bottle.

Think of a vacuum cleaner nozzle: if you want more suction at the nozzle what do you do? You put your hand over part of the nozzle to allow stronger suction over a smaller surface area. You do vacuum your car right?? ;)

Intake and exhaust headers need length and thinner diameter for low to mid torque, short and open for high rpm work. Fact.

true, just saying that there can be more to it than just cold air

Pity that you could try 5 sets of cai's and probably not notice a consistant variation over several of the better designs to draw a definitive conclusion. Sounds like a challenge....

There's only one way to answer this question definatively.

You must measure the air temperature and pressure immediately before the MAF sensor.

what makes one air intake better than another air intake is whether or not it is providing a larger quantity of cooler, higher density air to the engine. Obviously testing conditions must be as close to each other as possible during the testing of different intake designs.

You can all argue until the cows come home that one setup is better than the other, but until someone gets the data, it's all hearsay.

true, just saying that there can be more to it than just cold air


agreeed

EZ boy what size pipe are you useing, and have you dyno'd your car with the CAI, i was just looking at one of my print outs and peak power has moved from 122kmh to about 115kmh, maybe the long pipe's are holding it back, dont know?

i'll try 90mm pipe next time, but its going to be tight fit down the front

In NSW, Have a Pod, Have the free defect sticker that matches...

Just had to remove a Unifilter POD filter on a Freinds VN and replace it with an Airbox and panel filter as he was "Randomly Inspected" and according to the law POD style filters do not meet the ADR, therefore are illegal..
You can use them for Track days but not for normal on road use..

Just be careful people if you are a young driver of a nice ride , you can expect to be " Randomly Inspected"

so PODS are illegal over there?

Yes Jay04,they are..
Infact any changes to the Factory Setup are illegal but I highly doubt you would be booked for a panel filter as they are made to the same specifications as the original ones and are concealed away from the engine heat reducing the chance of a fire..

There are different rules for Different states, but in NSW pod style filters are illegal, but as they say everything is legal until you get caught..

panel filters (K&N) are for sale at autobahn stores for $99....im gunna buy one for my magan

EZ boy what size pipe are you useing, and have you dyno'd your car with the CAI, i was just looking at one of my print outs and peak power has moved from 122kmh to about 115kmh, maybe the long pipe's are holding it back, dont know?

i'll try 90mm pipe next time, but its going to be tight fit down the front

Haven't dyno'd due to needing a 4WD dyno, none in Newcastle. I know it feels better. The trip computer gives me the good news on fuel usage being down too.

I'm trying to get some ram-tube/trumpet style cai intakes made in 90mm as well as some other goodies. These will be made from vacuum formed plastic molding and look sh!t-hot!
Just trying to get info on plastic thickness, suitable plastics, mold forming and capabilities etc. :coffee: :gunnadieyoung: