Jus did my CAI a little while ago wat u guys think? :D
Also,has there been problems with these b4? 8)

nice work.. i would have recommended though that you had kept the snorkle and cut open a second hole for the piping and attach it on using a heated pvc pipe made into a flange

The problem then would be returning it to stock if need be. Like if the cops don't like the idea as much as you do :)

Tiz all sweet still got my snorkel in my boot,just in case anythin mite happen to the CAI :D Have ta put it back on b4 i get it serviced from now on thow cause it mite be a problem wit the warranty i got :(
Hmm not sure how to get around that Gami it was pretty hard to get it through as it was with all the piping and all in the way

*post removed*

looks like you got some alum foil from the kitchen and wrapped it around a post-it tube. Sorry .. looks very dodgy.

what is wrong with stock? it gets air from the bonnet's leading edge, not from the engine compartment. ?

you took the perfectly fine factory one and put that thing there why ?

Cause it sucks more air into the car.Probably won't be on permanently,mite be gettin a blitz pod.Nah it's not aluminium kitchen wrap :lol: Tis from bunnings,proper venting stuff,place i went to find out about a pod did'nt have any like pro cai piping

yer i did the same. he got it from me :D . cant see too muh wrong with it. I just can't see how much air u can get from a sealved bonnet lid into a 20mm piece of plastic.

Trav

yer i did the same. he got it from me :D . cant see too muh wrong with it. I just can't see how much air u can get from a sealved bonnet lid into a 20mm piece of plastic.

Trav

I cant see either because i have no bloody idea what sealved means.

Well with my car im happy with my power and im still using the stock intake as does Magna racing team's so it aparently works well.

Yeh,well it'd be betta to have a pod :D tis round 300 bux for a blitz.
I like it thow,think Tip does too :)

Yeah for sure get a pod filter it will go very well with your perfect intake you have made :D

bahahahahah!

mmm does blitz make a pod for the magna! if not ya destined for disaster

bahahahahah!

mmm does blitz make a pod for the magna! if not ya destined for disaster

your generelly destined for disaster putting a pod on a magna anyway

lol this debate again, good to have ya back widow :lol:

i gotta admit, ive got so much more blardy power with my pod and muffler on, its elite

back to the normal routine ey widow ;)

Yeh they do Blitz Pods for magnas over here at x speed
Why do you say that the Pod is a disaster WidowMaker?

Because that's whats on my family crest !

No really take at look at Dynomometer reading's they speak for themselfs

hhhmm the only thong holding me back from a pod is that low end power. traffic lights etc. otherwise i woulda got one ages ago. wouldnt mind me a new exhaust, maybe a vrx one. i like the look of the 'ol black muffler with twin pipes. the exhaust will hafta cum later.

Trav

hhhmm the only thong holding me back
Trav

What you wear under your pants is of no concern to me :badgrin:

you took the perfectly fine factory one and put that thing there why ?

haha :lol: widow... i always get so amused by the way you make your stand abt the stock air-intake being the best. i totally agree with you too!

Yeah for sure get a pod filter it will go very well with your perfect intake you have made :D

ahaahha and this one too...... it's a classic :lol:

come on alf,u should do the same havin the same stuff as each other,cept the Fiam horns and X-White H4 bulbs(wat r they :? would be sweet

come on alf,u should do the same havin the same stuff as each other,cept the Fiam horns and X-White H4 bulbs(wat r they :? would be sweet

don't get what you mean. i just find the way widow talks amusing kekeke. that's all nothing to it. i won't and shall not go to the extent of putting down ppl who intend to do a cai and pod.

as for the fiam horns, they are italian horn manufacturers. i thought the stock magna horn was better off on barbie's bicycle.

the x-white shouldn't be there but since they are non-standard, i put it there anyway. they are those blue-coated light bulbs that give a white light effect (Abit like xenon lamps though no where as intense and nice :)

Hey how far is that pipe going down? What if you suck up some water, kaboomy. :shock:

its hard to suck up alot of water at all. you may find some in the ducting down near the flood light, that will eithre dry or can be drained. little spray will reach the filter, but its nothing a filter can't handle esp if its a K&N.

Trav

Howdy MagnaArt

Excellent thought. Good start.
How smooth is the tube inside? What about the mouth of it - funel shape?Think of air flow - spiralling air moves faster than "gulping" air. Ensure the tube's interior is smooth to allow the spiralling effect to build up. Did you open or do you have open intake at the front grill to enable free air flow to the tube? Is the grill air intake protected with "squirrel catcher" to prevent foreign obstacles entering your expensive K$N?
I also noticed, that there is a pretty steep curve in the tube, :evil: when it enters the air box. Try to straighten/ease off all curves - they slow down the air movement.
Keep it coming!





Jus did my CAI a little while ago wat u guys think? :D
Also,has there been problems with these b4? 8)

Think of air flow - spiralling air moves faster than "gulping" air. Ensure the tube's interior is smooth to allow the spiralling effect to build up.

Umm... spiralling air isn't any good for Magna's. It messes with the air flow sensor giving incorrect readings so needs straight boring air flow. This is assuming the oval pod doesn't straighten it out before passing through the honeycomb section of the sensor.

Regards,
Cookie

Thanx for the feedback guys :D Inside the Filter Box there is quite a big opening from the CA.Though it is IMPOSSIBLE to make the Induction to go STRAIGHT down from the filter box,i had to really make it fit past all the additional piping that gets in the way of the induction.There is still plenty of room to suck up the air from the spotlight area where it is left to collect air.So far there has'nt been any problems 8)

Dear Cookie

You must have too much Optimax fumes in you - you didn't read carefully ;) . I was refering to the tube/pipe what has been generally used in CAI applications. I am well aware that the sensor requires steady, not spiralled, air flow to function correctly. Considering the lenght of the pipe we have to use in Magnas for CAI, we need to be careful how it's done to avoid loss of power - like you can see in some cases.
Yours Truly




[quote:9b584a6b8b="Killer"]Think of air flow - spiralling air moves faster than "gulping" air. Ensure the tube's interior is smooth to allow the spiralling effect to build up.

Umm... spiralling air isn't any good for Magna's. It messes with the air flow sensor giving incorrect readings so needs straight boring air flow. This is assuming the oval pod doesn't straighten it out before passing through the honeycomb section of the sensor.

Regards,
Cookie[/quote:9b584a6b8b]

Okay, my mistake. I have a habit if misreading things :)

Thanx for the feedback guys :D Inside the Filter Box there is quite a big opening from the CA.Though it is IMPOSSIBLE to make the Induction to go STRAIGHT down from the filter box,i had to really make it fit past all the additional piping that gets in the way of the induction.There is still plenty of room to suck up the air from the spotlight area where it is left to collect air.So far there has'nt been any problems 8)



A bit of black spray paint inside the induction tube would make that photo look a heap better where it goes into the tube, and also it would look a billion times better if you either wrapped that induction tube in something so it doesnt look so flimsy, and make it black so it doesnt stand out so much...
unfortunately if you have gained any power, you have lost points in asthetics.. thats what i would do anyway but im a perfectionist.. so dont take it as an insult ! :D
you asked for my opinion so there it is :p ;)

Guys,
Just a quick one, you do know that the honey comb looking stuff that is at the front of your A/F meter is there to straighten the flow so regardless of what happens the flow will be straighted befor it hit the meter itself. The thing that you have to remember is that the mitsubishi engines measure air flow by using the Karmen Frequency.

Ok I will put my Engineer Nerd hat on

Any bluff body that is placed in an air stream will create in it's wake a Von Karmen vortex. It is the frequency of this vortex that changes as the flow velocity over the bluff body increases. Placed in the wake is a mirror that basically flaps like a flag in the wake. An LED reflects of the mirror and back onto a light sensitive diode. This signal is them fed into a transducor where, in the case of our AF meter it will generate a 5v square wave signal that is fed to the ECU. I hope that explains it abit for you. I do have the Fourier Transforms for caculating this stuff but unless you are up to speed with your partial differential equations then you are in trouble. I will take my nerd had off now.

Cheers
Paul

Yo ca18escort

You just gave me head ache.... I actually had to start to think. Not good on Mondays.
You must have studied (to perfection) the way Magna air intake works.
Without your scientific declaration I have trusted the desing of the air box and the air filter element it self to kill any twirly air flow generated with long intake tubes. As you know, the air flow is better in such a long tube if it's spiralling. But also, the spiralling movement has to stop before the sensor blaa blaa. Original snorkel feeds the air differently - what ever air it actually feeds the angine - as we all know it's quite restricticve design, no matter what Mitshu it self says.....
But thanks for your comments. Going for Panadol now..... :idea:





Guys,
Just a quick one, you do know that the honey comb looking stuff that is at the front of your A/F meter is there to straighten the flow so regardless of what happens the flow will be straighted befor it hit the meter itself. The thing that you have to remember is that the mitsubishi engines measure air flow by using the Karmen Frequency.

Ok I will put my Engineer Nerd hat on

Any bluff body that is placed in an air stream will create in it's wake a Von Karmen vortex. It is the frequency of this vortex that changes as the flow velocity over the bluff body increases. Placed in the wake is a mirror that basically flaps like a flag in the wake. An LED reflects of the mirror and back onto a light sensitive diode. This signal is them fed into a transducor where, in the case of our AF meter it will generate a 5v square wave signal that is fed to the ECU. I hope that explains it abit for you. I do have the Fourier Transforms for caculating this stuff but unless you are up to speed with your partial differential equations then you are in trouble. I will take my nerd had off now.

Cheers
Paul

Erm.... question: Doesnt the crinkly/bumpy surface of the piping/tube hinder the effectiveness of the twirly air on its way to the MAS?

Ok Guys,
I am going to make a broad statement here. If you have a spiral pipe and a smooth pipe of the same diameter the smooth pipe will flow more. The short answer to why is because the raised bits on the inside of the pipe will great a turbulent boundry layer around the sides of the pipe. This will reduce the effective diameter of the pipe. If you want to work it out (which you can ) you need to use the Von Karmen Momentun Intergral equation. For those of you that may think that I have a little too much time on my hands one of the ellectives I did during my 4th of my degree was advanced fluid mechanics where I spent a year trying to understand this Von Karmen dude. this is going back a few years though so it is a little rusty.

Cheer
Paul

Absolutely. That's exactly what I have been pointing out. Hence it's quite imperative to have the interior of the tube to be as smooth as possible.
Now you wonder, doesn't it suck the air no matter what type of surface there is? Of course it does, but to get the max out of one's CAI, it's better. Call it nick-picking or being perfectionist or.... but any gained extra kW is better..... and there is never enough power.
Once the air flow exits the tube, it enters the scientifically (WHAT???) designed hi-tech Mitsu air box ;) and continues through the filter element and then through MAS - by that time any twirl of air has died and the MAS receives a nice chunk of air to it's hungry grilles. And it works as it should.
Trust me. Said the lawyer....



Erm.... question: Doesnt the crinkly/bumpy surface of the piping/tube hinder the effectiveness of the twirly air on its way to the MAS?

Absolutely. That's exactly what I have been pointing out. Hence it's quite imperative to have the interior of the tube to be as smooth as possible.

But having a smooth pipe without the bumps and crinkles would make it pretty impossible to bend all the different ways it needs to in order to get from the front air dam (or wherever the intake is positioned) to the engine. unless you custom make something....

also....doesnt having the MAS straighten out the air kind of negate the positives of 'swirling' the air through the piping? I mean, it would be like having 5" extractors, 5" stainless mandrel bent piping, and Hi flow cat/or no cat - all exiting through a stock 1.5" exhaust (bit of an exaggeration but you catch my drift) Correct? or not?

Howdy TheDifference

You just need to find such tube. That's what I use. 80mm Aviation heater tube. I know, I know, difficult to get etc... but lucky me! Quite expensive.
Smooth as, and flexes nicely to bend around without cracks and creases.
I have seen some guys doing CAI tube from hard PVC drainage pipe, but that was for a non Magna, hence the engine room is different and cannot be applied with us. Unfortunately.

You are correct - to an extend. The idea to get air to "spiral" in the tube is to get it throught the very long (80-90 cm) tube efficiently and fast.
The fact that the swirl gets killed once it reaches the air box/filter is ok, next process of getting it through the MAS in non-spiralling movement is required anyway. So, the swirling can, and has to end.

See, the lenght of the primary tube we need to use in our CAI application is a lot for such a mass of air to travel fast. It travels quicker when it's swirling. The swirling air movement in the tube is not meant to make any difference with air going through the MAS. Especially because the MAS require steady flow, not swirls. The only necessity is to get it throught the tube as easy as possible.

Air is mass, like water. Very less dense though, but similar principle applies. One cubic meter of air weighs about one kilogram.
Does water run faster on smooth drain or very scrubbly drain?

I hope this helps.







[quote:70c2e34ada="Killer"]Absolutely. That's exactly what I have been pointing out. Hence it's quite imperative to have the interior of the tube to be as smooth as possible.

But having a smooth pipe without the bumps and crinkles would make it pretty impossible to bend all the different ways it needs to in order to get from the front air dam (or wherever the intake is positioned) to the engine. unless you custom make something....

also....doesnt having the MAS straighten out the air kind of negate the positives of 'swirling' the air through the piping? I mean, it would be like having 5" extractors, 5" stainless mandrel bent piping, and Hi flow cat/or no cat - all exiting through a stock 1.5" exhaust (bit of an exaggeration but you catch my drift) Correct? or not?[/quote:70c2e34ada]

What about making some sort of fins at the entrance of the CAI pinping to make the air swirl?

Guys,
Maybe you should read my post again............swirling is bad hmmkay.

As for the drawing that you did, haven't you guys heard of the Hi-Cylone product that has been around for quite awhile. It just doesn't work. The best CAI that you can do is basicall cut a bloody big 4" hole in the inner guard and have the airbox suck the air from there. There is also the issue of there not being a bell mouth intake on the AF meter which will help the transition of flow into the AF meter.

Cheers
Paul

OK, you misunderstood my idea,

The Hi-Clone thing is fitted right before the TB making the incoming air spiral into the plenum.

What I was proposing is making somthing similar, but less angles on the fins so it is a slight swirling effect, and fitting it to the entrance of the "CAI".

As mentioned before by killer swirling would speed up the air through the CAI piping, once the air hits the air-filter it will be dispersed(sp?) and secondly it was also mentioned that the honeycomb bit before the air flow sensor also helps straighten out the air flow.

Ohh, and I have also read in an autospeed test about CAI setups and it was concluded that it was a bad idea to get cold air from the inner gaurd as there is a negative pressure drop in that area so the engine has to work harder to SUCK air in.

There is also the issue of there not being a bell mouth intake on the AF meter which will help the transition of flow into the AF meter.

For the panel. You reckon that air coming up the intake will cause a little turbulance where it's hitting around the sensor entrance? The panel's way bigger than the sensor entrance.

I think it was Autospeed but someone once ran an article on the best location for CAI. They used a pressure sensing device and changed the location for it several times and drove around for each different position. It recorded the maximum pressure. I think that gets a little impractical as who want's holes cut out their bumper and stuff like that.

Guys,
You need to remember that the engine is sucking the air in. It is not being blown in from the forward movement of the vehicle. Because the air is being drawn over the sharp edge of the AF meter and taking into account the proximity to the sidewall of the AF Meter then I think that there could be some gain made in this area. How much I don't know maybe one day I will get bored and try it :D

As for the swirling air, I will say it again turbulent flow as a general rule is bad (The exception to this is with boundry layers on the side wall of the pipe to a certain extent). But I guess the biggest point to make is that if you use 3" pipe of any construction it will flow enough for around 180kw at the engine with negligable pressure drop based on 30" of Hg vacume( which is to simulate full load on an engine) and 1.5 CFM of flow per HP.

Cheers
Paul

in that case forget my idea :(

What if you where going to do a few 1/4 mile runs on the strip. Say you removed your headlight near the airbox and ran some tubing to the airbox from the area where the light is missing. Wouldn't this help push(or rather lessen the amout of air the engine needs to suck)some air into the intake as the car builds up some speed and give a bit more performance aside from the benefit of the cold air?

Phonic,
Put it this way at about 140km/h you will get a pressure increase of around 9 inches of water which equates to about .3psi. This may combat some of the losses in the intake but they would more than likely be around the 40-50" of water mark due to the inlet design and the fact that Karmen vortex AF meters are quite restrictive.

Cheers
Paul

fair enough Paul,
I enjoy learning new things all the time :D

oh and my real name is Igor for anyone wondering.

Igor,
Not a problem I am here to help :D

Cheers
Paul

And I thought you were here to show us your "penguin" :D
Haydn

i'm a little beat here at the moment, especially with the engine sucking, not be pushed thing...

1st thing, air flow, my mate who is a chemical engineer did his whole final year project on fluid flow, possibly the whole van Karman thing, I dunno, I didnt ask who invented it... but the whole idea of the project was to make it stuff flow better...

the best idea was to have dimples like a golf ball (which creates little pockets of fluid (be it air, water etc) that capture some of the fluid which in turn creates a surface for the rest of the to flow over...(obviously the size of the dimples relates to the attributes of the fluid.... his whole project was a specialised part of this but he sited various lead up examples like a baseball bat that they made some years ago with dimples that added an extra 5% swing speed to the bat (and greater hitting power!!, consequently got banned very quickly)

2nd, according to him the hiclones do work but only in some situations... and they have to be tuned nearly perfectly, he has one in his car (a nissan maxima, talk about granpa car :badgrin: ) , something to do with resonance and lessening the effect of it...and swears by it... if you want to know more about resonance, read any physics book on waves (or maybe how organs work, yeah the musical ones) it will help explain tuned intakes (there is also something to do with back pressure as well, i'll see if i can find stuff on it) which allow for resonance and gave rise to variable intake lengths....

3rd thing, paul, you make it sound like CAI is a waste of time?!? As i stick my hand out the window and fly it around in the wind as i drive, i cannot see how having a reasonable CAI could not help push air into the engine, obviously not at the same rate as a turbo, but enough to make a difference....

just went hunting and found some other interesting articles....
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question517.htm

also http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0663
and the rest of the article is a good read also...

cheers,
Al

Al,
The stuff that you are talking about that your friend did is to do with Von Karmen. This is the exception that I was talking about. Basically what it boils down to it the turbultent boundry layer that is created by the dimples creates less form drag over the bluff body that it would if there was laminar flow against the surface of the bluff body due to the shear forces that are present. While you friend was a Chemical engineer I based my whole degree around two things. Fluid dynamics and Materials. I did stuff like fracture mechanics, impact mechanics, material composition, advanced fluid dymanics, Non detructive inpsection techniques, Acoustic Noise (which deals with the use of hemholtz resonators to tune intake that you were talking about) So I think that I have a pretty good grounding in this sort of stuff. I also designed a race car for my thesis. I am familar with the Autospeed website you you refer to, if you read the articles more carefully you will find that Julian made extensive measurements to identify the areas that could be improved. This is what I am getting at about making the modifications. If you look at the article that he wrote about improving the airflow on the VL Turbo you will find that there is some good stuff in there also. The other thing that you have to bear in mind is that on a NA engine the gains will not be as significant as those on a Turbo engine.

Cheers
Paul

Al,
The stuff that you are talking about that your friend did is to do with Von Karmen. (lots more writing..... ) . The other thing that you have to bear in mind is that on a NA engine the gains will not be as significant as those on a Turbo engine.

Cheers
Paul

thanks paul, after reading through this thread and the various autoweb articles i can see that all of this in not going to create a great improvement. But an improvement non the less, Julian's negative pressure article is great and i intend to do this sometime this week to see what the magna does, and as my intake is near stock it should provide some good grounds as to what is going on. I'm convinced that any air being forced into the air intake has got to be a good thing!

The whole swirling air thing still seems a unquantified sum to me, and until i see it actually not work or work, it will remain so (sorry, thats just me).

Oh and i wasnt dissing mechanical engineers, being and elec eng student myself, we have a pretty close relationship with mech at uni. But the chem eng degree is more to do with fliuds, flow, solids movement and control and shit that you may realise (it sure surprised me, i thought they were into blowing shit up!! :badgrin: ). I've seen some of his text books and they are all about the shit that we are talking about... maybe i should go and find them and have a read!

cheers
Al

hey guys

so i was thinking of putting a cold-air-intake on my car

what is the general concensus?

to do one like tipareth?...to not do one at all?...to have/not have a smooth pipe?

Also, i think this was mentioned earlier

but would it be possible to run the stock air intake with the stock snorkel AND also run a cold-air-intake system? (by cutting a hole below where the snorkel joins the airbox thing, and then runnning a length of tube down to the front fog light place)

please reply in la-mens terms ............. we are not all geniusses

later 8)

Howdy Benny

I opened a can of worms with this stuff... but it has been excellent feedback and info for everyone. Good stuff. And thanks.

So, using both? Slayer was playing with this idea due to warranty reasons. Since the airflow in the snorkel is not spiralling (here we go again... ;) ) it maybe shouldn't cause any harm to add another tube to improve the total amount of air before the filter.

What comes to the location of the sucking end of the tube, wheel arc is possibly not the best due to low air pressure when vehicle is moving. And also water and rubbish flying around there.
Try the void area behind lower front grill - and make a hole to the grill to let air flow in. Cover the hole with mesh to prevent rats and things getting in there...
Pull the tube past battery, between the fan and battery and bend it sideways to the left. You might need to cut a bit of that plastic wall off to enable it to bend nicely. Avoid sharp bends - hinders the airflow.
Use tube with smooth interior. The idea of having spiralled interior to improve air speed sounds something which requires further investigations, but. And I'm not going to. :cry:
BTW, engine intake air is fed to the inlet manifold by both engine vacuum and surrounding air pressure. Which one is greater factor - you'll get our gurus commenting on that pretty soon.... :)

Good luck. And get a K&N for it asap.



hey guys

so i was thinking of putting a cold-air-intake on my car

what is the general concensus?

to do one like tipareth?...to not do one at all?...to have/not have a smooth pipe?

Also, i think this was mentioned earlier

but would it be possible to run the stock air intake with the stock snorkel AND also run a cold-air-intake system? (by cutting a hole below where the snorkel joins the airbox thing, and then runnning a length of tube down to the front fog light place)

please reply in la-mens terms ............. we are not all geniusses

later 8)

hey guys

so i was thinking of putting a cold-air-intake on my car

but would it be possible to run the stock air intake with the stock snorkel AND also run a cold-air-intake system? (by cutting a hole below where the snorkel joins the airbox thing, and then runnning a length of tube down to the front fog light place)

please reply in la-mens terms ............. we are not all geniusses

later 8)

gday mate, i think this dual intake set up has been tried before... try searching the old fastmagna.com forums about it.... anyway, after testing the results came back as a negative, logic says that two intakes would be better than one but for some reason, or at least the way that it was tried did not work.

smooth tubing is definately better, drain pipe seems to be a popular choice...

Give that article on negative pressure a read..... that is a cheap and easy way of refining you intake system

We've got a couple of fluid dynmamics people here at work. I'm going to have a chat with them and see if their software can model possible intake scenarios. If not, they still might have some interesting opinions.

ok just did some reading on the old archived fastmagna forums and read some interesting stuff although it was obviously in the early stages of CAI development for magnas. I did see the dual intake i.e snorkal and ducting at the same time method mentioned once but it looked like more of a question than actually going through with it so I still havn't completely written off that idea. Still searching through though as I believe there will be the thread mentioning a drop in results somewhere it's just not the easiest of forums to navigate. Anyway here's some quotes I've found so far

quote 1"I've got a new idea and just wondering what some people think of it.....
Leave the standard intake snorkel, cut a hole in it just before it enters the airbox and run a cold air intake to the front bumper... This should solve my lack of air problem, and should feed in more than enough...... How cold it would all be is up for grabs tho. My only worry is would the air be too turbulant as it enters the airbox and then passes the MAS sensor????"

The only other posts of interest that popped up included still using the stock snorkal but feeding it with more air. Here's a copy and paste of the main post regarding it let me know what you guys think. I'm trying to visualise it but it's not clicking and unfortunately it's impossible to reply on those forums now.


quote 2"I have been doing alot of messing around with designs and parts for a Cold Air Induction system for my TH sports. In summary I've been able to triple the airflow avalable to the airbox (estimated) with no additional parts and half an hours work.

Initially I purchased a heatgun and heaps of 90mm PVC tubing and joins. The design I had was to remove the snorkel running into the airbox, run a 90' bend out of the airbox and straight down. Then a slight bend around the battery box (which was where the first mounting bracket was to be). The pipe then was to continue down past the the radiator hose ( a little bit of insulation or PVC manipulation would have been required so the PVC didn't get hot) and then a 45' or 90' bend at the bottom where the inlet sat on the mid left sort of under the radiator. It was a good position for the inlet as it had direct oncoming airflow (hard to describe here though).

I had modified the first 90' bend with the heatgun so the mouth fitted neatly into the airbox which is an oval shape and started to build the rest. I sat back and had a look at what I had to do to get the system working and a much better idea came to me.

The problem with the stock system is (and I'm not sure if this is the case for other models of Magnas), the only air avaliable for the snorkel inlet (and therefore the airbox and engine) passes through both the hole in the front shroud for the bonnet latch and a 2 or 3mm gap running along the front edge of the shroud and top of the grill.(By shroud I mean the long black bit of hard plastic that sits in front of the snorkel and runs the width of the bonnet). I can see why it has breathing problems at high revs as the air must really have to be sucked through. The snorkel itself is not restrictive, it has approximately the same volume as the PVC.

So here's the simple solution. Make a cut in the very narrow bit of the shroud level with the left side of the snorkel(if you are facing the engine). Make another cut to the shroud which is about 4 to 5 cm long to the shroud level with the right edge of the snorkel. what you end up with is essentially a flap of hard plastic and the intention is to push this down. Push the left side down under the bonned latch mechanism where it will stay as it is held under the bonnet latch mechanism (it doesn't inerfere with it though). If you now look through the grill from the front of the car you will see that this flap of plastic will act like a scoop at speed and will direct cool air into the mouth of the snorkel. You can leave it at that if you wish, however I used the heat gun ($45.00) to make the entire length of the flap sit at about a 45' angle. Although this does hang down in front of the radiator slightly you can plainly see that it would have no effect on engine cooling.

So that's it, no shitty looking PVC taking up engine bay space, no moving batteries or major cutting up of parts of the wheel guard. If you go to sell the car just bend the flap back up to the original position and no-one will even notice. "


so yeah a couple of other options other than the standard 3" piping to the fog lights to consider anyone done either of these before?

Maybe If i ever want to do this mod on my tr..i might upgrade the Computer so then you can use different air flow methods and ditch the von karmen-y thingy? true? maybe? yes? and then i could just get a normal pod or something right? but then i'd have to do CAI and they always look so damn dodgy...hmm.

Maybe ill just get a panel filter and then buy HUGE RIMS! aah aesthetics(sp) always wins.

Maybe If i ever want to do this mod on my tr..i might upgrade the Computer so then you can use different air flow methods and ditch the von karmen-y thingy? true? maybe? yes? and then i could just get a normal pod or something right? but then i'd have to do CAI and they always look so damn dodgy...hmm.

Maybe ill just get a panel filter and then buy HUGE RIMS! aah aesthetics(sp) always wins.

Yeah, buy a haltech and then you can use a different AFM.. :lol:

sorry booya O:)

or rims! w0000t!

From my local bunnings hardware shop I bought and used with success some pool piping, it was about 2inch in diamater, and the walls of the tube about 5mm thick, it could'nt bend too much but would'nt crease either and would be perfect for something like this. It is a see through blue colour and was about $15 a metre, not bad.

.... I'm trying to visualise it but it's not clicking and unfortunately it's impossible to reply on those forums now.

Ok I take it as meanig this...
The green is the origional CAI setup and the REd is the "new" setup...
I gather that he has added some sort of sides to the new flap.
Haydn

thanks for that tbutcher thats pretty much how I figured it would be I will have to take a look under the bonnet this afternoon and see what exactly he has cut. For pure mass of air getting into the airbox i'm thinking the snorkel modified in this way plus some form of tubing meeting with the snorkel and airbox that runs from the fog lights mounting. However I'm sure theres some downside to this just wish there was some solid proof either way. That autospeed 5 part read was great got me tempted to measure the negative pressure points in the magnas intake system!

Id think that id you have a split intake... you would want to make sure that the angle that the second inlet was entering the first was as close to parralell of the first .. so that the second inlet's air doesnt come in and disrupt the flow of the primary source...
refer crud attached pic :)
There could also be a possiability that hte primary air (dark Blue) will split and go into the secondary inlet...
Well this is what I reckon... Im using my own logic not any theroms or equasions...
Feel free to disagree or comment.
Cause Im using a hole in my bonnet anyway... and it is about half the size of the stock inlet... once it is sealed it will be interesting to see how it performs :)

Haydn

love the pictures man \:D/

NP... remember............




Haydn


:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL

how about removing the mesh on the air flow sensor... 28% increase in G forces at high rpm, and a pressure drop in the intake. Seriously worth considering.

I wonder what David from RPW has to say bout this...

forget that idea, it doesn't have one :shock:

:cry:

yep Haydn that was definately my main concern with that option I would of put the intake hole as close as possible to the opening of the airbox but the air patterns when they meet would still be an unknown. I just remember reading an autospeed article where they used the 2 intakes and it proved to be more effective than the snorkel or ducting when used by themselves so I still think it's an avenue worth exploring.

Anyway I got home ran inside grabbed my camera and went to look at the other option of improving the airflow into the snorkel. If I'm presuming the correct part was cut it doesn't look like it will work as well on a tj model because of the larger nose section anyway here is a piccie of the stock setup arrow pointing at the bit that is folded I suspect