Found the supplier of RPW's cams - I'll admit it wasn't hard. They also have the Ralliart grind on file if you're a bit weak in the stomach.

Ready for it??

Price for any grind: $1200 a set! :shock:

Help! WADE CAMS??? :pray:

Whatever happened to the Guy from Wade cams who was going to have a look at cams for us??

Anyway, this particular company said they can discount to a "little under a grand each" on a group buy of 5+ sets. Reckons he sells heaps overseas at these prices so isn't interested in discounting them. I thought Ralliart cams were only like $450 a set?

I'm pretty cut about this. :angry: Suppliers just don't seem to get it do they??

are these new ones or just a grinded one ??

are these new ones or just a grinded one ??

Carved from virgin stone (er, um... steel)

sorry wat i mean is, do they take our cams and grind them, or make them from scratch ??

sorry wat i mean is, do they take our cams and grind them, or make them from scratch ??

that better not be just for a grind as its a rip off if it is, id hope to have gold plated ones with "Magna Forever" engraved in them for that price, but then again i know nothing about cams and its late at night so i might just go to bed

i beleive what ezboy is saying is that to get any grind on a set of NEW cams, it will be 1200


later :cool:

they are brand new billets ground to any specs you want (probably suggest to go to one of the specs rpw has worked out). rpw sells these for 1100. the ralliart cams are available from mitsubishi for 450ish a set. currently waiting on my rpw set to arrive :)

wade cams cant do any cams for us. their supplier doesnt have billets for the magnas.

Anyone wants to know about RPW cams... PM me LOL :D

they are brand new billets ground to any specs you want (probably suggest to go to one of the specs rpw has worked out). rpw sells these for 1100. the ralliart cams are available from mitsubishi for 450ish a set. currently waiting on my rpw set to arrive :)

wade cams cant do any cams for us. their supplier doesnt have billets for the magnas.
Thanks for that info, sounds accurate to me. I am looking at getting this done as well... maybe.

You sound like a veteran member too, have you been here before?

Found the supplier of RPW's cams - I'll admit it wasn't hard. They also have the Ralliart grind on file if you're a bit weak in the stomach.

Ready for it??

Price for any grind: $1200 a set! :shock:

Help! WADE CAMS??? :pray:

Whatever happened to the Guy from Wade cams who was going to have a look at cams for us??

Anyway, this particular company said they can discount to a "little under a grand each" on a group buy of 5+ sets. Reckons he sells heaps overseas at these prices so isn't interested in discounting them. I thought Ralliart cams were only like $450 a set?

I'm pretty cut about this. :angry: Suppliers just don't seem to get it do they??

Refer threads from early March "Camshaft Supply" and "Crow Cams vs RPW Cams".
I spent a lot of time trying to source billets, without success. When they are available, although l don't know when that will be, l am confident WADE CAMS won't be charging $1200.00 a set. We will do a special deal for AMC members.

Cheers

Chris
WADE CAMS

I have it on good authority that Crow might have just recently found themselves in a position to turn out a low volume of cams for our engines.. :cool:

Thanks for that info, sounds accurate to me. I am looking at getting this done as well... maybe.

You sound like a veteran member too, have you been here before?

nah mate im new lol

Hey TenSixty6 - love your work on the previous threads, maybe you could get in touch with EZBoy to find out where they get the billets from.

Then we would be a go.

If only someone can get us some billet cams at a reasonable price, i would be more than happy to hand over a wad of cash for some!!!

I think 1200 is a little excessive for a pair, 900-1000 might be reasonable.

they are brand new billets ground to any specs you want (probably suggest to go to one of the specs rpw has worked out). rpw sells these for 1100. the ralliart cams are available from mitsubishi for 450ish a set. currently waiting on my rpw set to arrive :)

wade cams cant do any cams for us. their supplier doesnt have billets for the magnas.

RPW didn't work out the specs! The cam manufacturer did the hard yards on a PC. David just resells them. He's told me. The cam company has told me.

We all know that Ralliart cams *appear* to be great value (if you think that 13kw and 17nm is a good trade for $450+ install and no ported heads), and we can't bloody get them to sell them to us :(

I think Wade will be able to source some billets. Even a regrind if done competently is very reliable - except in a Touring Car....

Keep an eye out for Wade, Chris will pull the rabbit out of the hat for us. I have a funny feeling on this one ;)

I have it on good authority that Crow might have just recently found themselves in a position to turn out a low volume of cams for our engines.. :cool:
I'm in line!!! :drool: :2cool:

We all know that Ralliart cams *appear* to be great value (if you think that 13kw and 17nm is a good trade for $450+ install and no ported heads), and we can't bloody get them to sell them to us :(
I have seen a number of threads throwing this around... are we 100% sure that they wont sell to non Ralliart owners?

if answer = true then
____they are a bunch of stupid heads
else
____what are we waiting for
end if






**This new job is messing with my head :nuts:

I remember reading a thread about camshafts before and people were belly aching about the cost of ralliart cams...i thought to myself why are these people complaining..that is cheap for a set of cams let alone FACTORY cams...but i thought oh well maybe people can source REALLY cheap cams. It would seem as this is not the case as i suspected.
Looks like mitsu are a bargain at this stage.

I remember reading a thread about camshafts before and people were belly aching about the cost of ralliart cams...i thought to myself why are these people complaining..that is cheap for a set of cams let alone FACTORY cams...
Me too but the Ralliart ones aren't much better than the normal ones.

they are a fair bit better but they are a compromise of performance, smooth idle and midrange performance...keeping in mind ralliarts are factory mapped to run on regular unleaded fuel and are very welcoming to simply a remap and premium unleaded. Cams alone will not make a big difference unless tuned.

they are a fair bit better but they are a compromise of performance, smooth idle and midrange performance...keeping in mind ralliarts are factory mapped to run on regular unleaded fuel and are very welcoming to simply a remap and premium unleaded. Cams alone will not make a big difference unless tuned.
Yes they are better but not a fair bit better. I don't think they are that much better if the gain was 10% in power and 5% in torque and it was only possible with headers, headwork, higher compression and tuned to suit 91RON. Obviously a 98RON tune will be better but even just some more advanced timing and not running as rich would have seen gains.

Seeing as though it runs rich from factory then more air in will still see a noticeable gain. As far as allowing marketing to tone down the car... pah... that's just weak.

Monjunior - what do you know about the "ralliart parts can only be sold to ralliart owners" theory?
Do you know if this is a hard and fast rule enforced by MMAL??
How would they know?
are you aware of any dealerships that non ralliart owners can source them from?
Can you source them for non ralliart owners?
Why is the sky blue?

Monjunior is 100% on the mark regarding Ralliart cams. People seem to take it upon themselves in this forum to slam the Ralliart engine for some reason.

MMAL is a major car manufacturer. That means they must be slightly conservative with their engineering to meet ADRs, warranty requirements and 'customer perception' etc. They are no different to any other car maker - hence the massive aftermarket range for all performance cars.

To that end MMAL made a deliberate decision at the time to develop a cam for the Ralliart that wouldn't destroy idle performance, and to ensure that the long-term reliability of all associated components was met.

To anyone who says the Ralliart cam hasn't made much of a difference, then they haven't ridden in a Ralliart lately. While compression, headers etc was also changed from a standard TJII 6G74, the major performance enhancing change was the cam. And the difference is marked. Yes, like any other car it can always be improved upon in the aftermarket. But the Ralliart engine storms, and it sounds like no other standard Magna engine doing it too.

For $450 or so, the Ralliart cams are going to deliver a very definite performance improvement. As for the VIN issue, several people in this forum seem to have gotten around this - it seems to depend on the dealer.

Thanks Fencer :) spot on mate...i did forget to mention emissions in my post too..oops.

Black Beard...now all these questions lol

1. I wasnt aware that only Ralliart magna owners can buy Ralliart magna parts until i visited this forum. Obviously someone has been refused business at some time to have made this statement but as far as i am aware (i will clarify) there is no restriction on the sale of Ralliart magna parts. Certainly there is no restriction VIN wise to restrict sale of EVO Lancer stuff so i see no reason for it.
2. Im not sure if it a hard and fast rule but will check
3. As far as im aware there is no system in place for them to know......that is if they care. After you purchase something....why would it matter to MMAL what you did with the part. You could stick it out on the road and drive a truck over it for all they care, so not sure lol
4. Yes
5. Yes


I hope this helps mate....let me know if any dramas

cheers mon

People seem to take it upon themselves in this forum to slam the Ralliart engine for some reason.

Dude, no one is bagging the Ralliart engine. In fact, I'd be surprised if you could find a member on here who didn't agree that the engine was the single best element in the Ralliart magna.

What you're missing though is as Redav said, a 10% increase in power and 5% increase in torque doesn't constitute a big increase, and the cams aren't the only things responsible for the increase in power (head work, headers, compression increase).

I mean, when I buy a set of "Stage 2" cams later this year I'm hoping to produce somewhere well on the happy side of 200kW given the other work I've done to the car. That is a big increase.

++++
Greetings All.

Personally, I think that any 3.5L with ralliart cams, advanced timing (to make it run on 98), panel/pod + cai, extractors and a 2.5" mendral bent exhaust with a performance muffler will see some VERY nice gains, possible gain more power then a stock ralliart was at the fly...

Lets see:

Ralliart Cams @ $500
Pacemaker/RPW Extractors @ $350-700
Panel/Pod + CAI @ $120-500
2.5" Mendral Bent Exhaust w/ Hot Dog & Aluminised Sports Muffer @ $350-500
Labour @ $1000-1750
So for around anywhere between $2320 & $3950 you should have an AWSOME sounding car, that has better ecconomy and ALOT more zip...(might be able to get it at different prices...these are just a guide...it all depends on what parts and labour costs are...)

A manual with all of this should make at least a good 180-200hp at the wheels...

The most expensive part of it all would be installing...and im sure you would get even more gains with a Piggy...

The ralliart cams are not that bad...but in saying that, they arnt the BEST performance mod out there, to REALLY get them to work better, it would be wise to advance the timing....

Cheers,
--Tonba
++++

1. I wasnt aware that only Ralliart magna owners can buy Ralliart magna parts until i visited this forum. Obviously someone has been refused business at some time to have made this statement but as far as i am aware (i will clarify) there is no restriction on the sale of Ralliart magna parts. Certainly there is no restriction VIN wise to restrict sale of EVO Lancer stuff so i see no reason for it.
Agreed. That's what Allan said when we were talking car upgrades. He was the team principle for the AWD rally team.


Dude, no one is bagging the Ralliart engine. In fact, I'd be surprised if you could find a member on here who didn't agree that the engine was the single best element in the Ralliart magna.

What you're missing though is as Redav said, a 10% increase in power and 5% increase in torque doesn't constitute a big increase, and the cams aren't the only things responsible for the increase in power (head work, headers, compression increase).
Zigactly*

It's a good engine and I'd have one tomorrow but realistically, it could have been better.


*reference to Asterix comics.

Dude, no one is bagging the Ralliart engine. In fact, I'd be surprised if you could find a member on here who didn't agree that the engine was the single best element in the Ralliart magna.

What you're missing though is as Redav said, a 10% increase in power and 5% increase in torque doesn't constitute a big increase, and the cams aren't the only things responsible for the increase in power (head work, headers, compression increase).


Yes, we'd all love the Ralliart to have gotten over 200kw. However, as we all know from many people in this forum, getting substantial power improvements from a n/a engine is not easy, particularly if you're a mass manufacturer. Nobody in the aftermarket (RPW etc) is prepared to offer the warranty that MMAL had to provide on the Ralliart.

Further MMAL set out to make it all run on 91RON, and I remember the engineering folks at the time saying they could have got more if they'd gone with PULP (I personally wish they had).

People get very tied up in the numbers (ie. 180kw versus 163kw etc etc). People look at the numbers, and decide that for all the hype and money the engine isn't much of an improvement over stock. What the numbers don't convey is the sheer drivability of the Ralliart engine.Quite simply no other engine from the Mitsu factory has ever provided the freight train power feel right up to the red line in every gear that the Ralliart does.

Coming from a TH Sports 3.5 (with K&N panel, Pacemaker headers, and Lukey exhaust I might add), I couldn't believe that the difference between it and a Ralliart could be as great. It's like driving a totally different car.

Bottom line from all this ramble!: If you can get Ralliart cams for that price, then go for it. Do the things that Tonba and others have suggested, and you'll have a certified weapon.

Coming from a TH Sports 3.5 (with K&N panel, Pacemaker headers, and Lukey exhaust I might add), I couldn't believe that the difference between it and a Ralliart could be as great. It's like driving a totally different car.


If i remember correctly though, your TH sports was an auto yeh? So obviously its going to feel quite a bit faster simply going from auto to manual :)

I think TZABOY has proven that the Ralliart has quite a beast of a motor, with more power to be unlocked with a few simple mods really.

Quite simply no other engine from the Mitsu factory has ever provided the freight train power feel right up to the red line in every gear that the Ralliart does.

Do you mean MMAL? Because the DOHC engines are far smoother and power delivery is smoother too.

AMEN to that KB... I had a 3.5 DOHC Pajero.....Nice Engine.
3L DOHC in 3000GT is smooth too.
The smoothest i have experienced is the 6A12 2L V6 in the HJ Galant.. Yeehaa...not so torquey though :P but a spritely performer all the same.

i reckon every should go out there and test drive a ralliart, come back and post your opinions....until then no one can talk about how good a ralliart engine is.... :)

Do you mean MMAL? Because the DOHC engines are far smoother and power delivery is smoother too.

Yes, I meant only Australian-produced engines from MMAL... :roll:

with the Ralliart cams
2 quesions for any1

1. if i change to These Cams, will i have to change anything else ?

2. will i notice any gains from just replacing these parts ?

1) You can fit the cams, apparently without having to replace the valve springs.

2) Mixed reactions to this one - some say yes, some say no... Probably better to tune the engine a bit better (aftermarket piggyback) or at least make sure the cams are dialled in properly (someone had some fitted here - didn't like them, maybe not installed properly?)

Cheers
Heath Young

hhmm......



can some1 that had them installed tell of their experience ?



Nath

2) Mixed reactions to this one - some say yes, some say no... Probably better to tune the engine a bit better (aftermarket piggyback) or at least make sure the cams are dialled in properly (someone had some fitted here - didn't like them, maybe not installed properly?)
Naturally it is always better to do so but I doubt it's necessary. They're only mild cams.


can some1 that had them installed tell of their experience ?
No, no one has knowingly done this.

hhmm......



can some1 that had them installed tell of their experience ?



Nath

To my knowledge - no one has yet had Ralliart cams installed in a non ralliart magna engine.

I suspect heathyoung might be referring to Velocity who had RPW cams installed by a workshop somewhere on the east coast (sydney?) - and had all sorts of problems with them, until he had the car transported to Perth to have them installed by the workshop he purchased them from.

Then again I could be wrong..... wouldn't be the first time.

I believe that Ralliart cams can be straight fitted to a standard engine. Now, I base this on memory from when the Ralliart was released, there was an article with one of the MMAL engineers in Autoweb, and it was stated that the Ralliart cams should deliver an immediate 9-10kw gain without any other changes to the engine.

Of course with ECU tweaks (Haltech, Greddy), plus air intake and header modifications etc etc, this could be further enhanced.

As I said, this is from my memory - which is known to highly suspect! Maybe someone else has the details or run a search.

I believe that Ralliart cams can be straight fitted to a standard engine. Now, I base this on memory from when the Ralliart was released, there was an article with one of the MMAL engineers in Autoweb, and it was stated that the Ralliart cams should deliver an immediate 9-10kw gain without any other changes to the engine.
Of course with ECU tweaks (Haltech, Greddy), plus air intake and header modifications etc etc, this could be further enhanced.
As I said, this is from my memory - which is known to highly suspect! Maybe someone else has the details or run a search.

Here is the article:
Autospeed Article (http://www.autospeed.com/A_1437/cms/article.html)
Cheers
Pete

Here is the article:
Autospeed Article (http://www.autospeed.com/A_1437/cms/article.html)
Cheers
Pete

Damn I hate that, can't read the whole article without paying for it..

Damn I hate that, can't read the whole article without paying for it..

I got around that little problem, hehe
:badgrin:

I got around that little problem, hehe
:badgrin:

Well do you wanna share it with the rest of us!! :D
I didnt even notice there was more till you pointed it out!! :D

OK well this is the rest of it:


The Search For Power...

A lot can be learnt from the Mitsubishi's new Ralliart Magna. Having spoken to Rod Campbell about its development, it's obvious this is the car anyone into hot Magnas should be taking notes from...

The Ralliart beastie pumps out a substantial 180kW at 5500 rpm and 333Nm at 4000 rpm.

So what sort of equipment is used to pick up this extra power and - secondly - can any of it be applied to a second-hand Magna?
Click for larger image

The Ralliart Magna uses heat-coated tubular extractors that will happily bolt to the heads of any TE-TJ Magna V6. On the other hand, Rod tells us the standard cast iron exhaust manifolds flow very well - the Ralliart extractors "are worth only a couple of kilowatts here or there".

Note that these extractors are longer than the standard cast manifolds, and - as a result - they require a new joining pipe. No performance advantage comes from the Ralliart's replacement front pipe - its only there to get gasses from A to B.

A 'bomb' style centre resonator is also fitted to improve the exhaust note.
Click for larger image

The rear section of exhaust is just as you'll find on a TJ Sport/VR-X. There's the same muffler that picked up a heap of kilowatts over the item used on the TH model 3.5. No changes here.

Interestingly, Rod says there's not much more to be picked up from further mods to the exhaust. "At one stage we tried a straight length of pipe with no mufflers and it made no more extra power." Exhaust backpressure in the Ralliart Magna is said to be less than 400mm of mercury (53 kPa).

And now we get into the guts of that 180kW 3.5-litre bent six.
Click for larger image

The only other components from the Ralliart Magna that are semi-easy to adapt to other models are the two camshafts (one for each bank). Rod says much of the Ralliart's power increase came from its camshafts, which have 10 percent more lift and an increased ramp rate compared to those used in the rest of the TJ line-up. "It's as big as we could fit through the bearing tunnels," admits Rod. Cam timing is set at 6 degrees retarded.

With the Ralliart's cam profile chosen, testing by the parent company in Japan later revealed that the standard valve springs had pretty marginal durability. As a result, the Ralliart uses nitrided versions of the standard springs. These can be fitted along with the bigger camshafts if you want the extra 'insurance'.

The rest of the Ralliart Magna's power comes from modifications that are not easy to adapt to an already built Magna.

Rod explains the Ralliart engine maintains excellent low rpm torque because it has reduced inlet and exhaust valve shrouding. The material right up against the side of the valve heads has been relieved, with the aim of increasing intake velocity particularly at small valve openings.

This handy gain is popular around the Mitsubishi camp because it came at zero cost. With all of the head machining performed 'next door', it's only a matter of changing the machining patterns. No new hardware.
Click for larger image

The Ralliart also boast an increased compression ratio thanks to its shallow-dish cast pistons. These pistons bump up the comp ratio to 9.4:1 (0.4 above the Sport), but it's still low enough to allow the use of normal 91-octane unleaded fuel. Rod says 10.0:1 compression would be "a walk in the park" using premium unleaded, but - again - different camshafts would be needed and that would most likely require altered gearing.

The Ralliart Magna pistons also feature anodised crowns and top ring lands to prevent wear and blow-by.

Of course, the Ralliart Magna's ECU is remapped to suit its mechanical changes but Rod says all the V6 Magnas end up running full load air-fuel ratios of around 11.3:1. "We don't like to go any leaner because of the negative effect on piston-to-bore clearance during endurance testing." Ignition timing is carefully optimised throughout the rev range and the speed limiter has been raised to 240 km/h.

So where does all this background info leave us?
Click for larger image

Well, without going through the hassle of modifying the heads and changing the pistons, Rod says it's easy to pick up power just by slipping in the Ralliart cams into any of the 3.5-litre V6s.

Note that the TJ Sport/VR-X's low restriction rear muffler is a prerequisite if you want decent exhaust flow.

During the development stages, Rod says they whacked a pair of the Ralliart camshafts into an otherwise stock TJ Sport and picked up around 5kW. The standard (non-nitrided) valve springs gave no trouble despite vigorous testing.

You can easily add the Ralliart extractors and front pipe as well. This, together with the camshafts, should give approximately 7kW total over the standard TJ Sport/VR-X - 170kW.

And that's without any expensive ECU changes or major engine teardowns!

Thankyou Mr Campbell, you've been more than helpful...

I cant see anything thats new in there... I got all that on the scrren before in the link I posted..????

I cant see anything thats new in there... I got all that on the scrren before in the link I posted..????

you are one of the lucky ones lol

Nah most of the time only the text before what i posted up loaded on that page and then it said "for the rest of this article please subscribe blah blah blah". Thats what Zaphod was complaining about. So you did see all of the article from the start

so they are definatly only for the 3.5L engine then

So from what he was saying you can stick the Ralliart cams into any 3.5ltr engine without any other mods correct?

So from what he was saying you can stick the Ralliart cams into any 3.5ltr engine without any other mods correct?


Yes and no. You can stick the Ralliart cam in and the engine will run, but without tuning it will run rough and you'll get no benefit out of it. So either you a) get a Ralliart ECU or b) Get an aftermarket ECU or a programmable piggyback.

Yes and no. You can stick the Ralliart cam in and the engine will run, but without tuning it will run rough and you'll get no benefit out of it. So either you a) get a Ralliart ECU or b) Get an aftermarket ECU or a programmable piggyback.

You'll still get a benefit from the ralliart cams even without a remap.. just not as much as you would with a remap.

++++
Greetings All.



Yes and no. You can stick the Ralliart cam in and the engine will run, but without tuning it will run rough and you'll get no benefit out of it. So either you a) get a Ralliart ECU or b) Get an aftermarket ECU or a programmable piggyback.

This is incorrect...it will work, and the donk will run VERY smooth...but you wont have a BIG noticable increase...if combined with other mods, it will be a bit better b4 tuning...

--Tonba
++++

Have been speaking to Ralliart today and can confirm that no one is supposed to be sold ralliart magna parts without a VIN.....unsure how well this is policed but this is the case. I said i would confirm this.....it has only taken me ohhhh a few weeks lol ...better late than never.

On the subject of cams.. I was speaking to Dallas from Street Torque the other week and he confirmed that he's getting Crow to make up some cam shafts for the 6G72 and 6G74 as we speak. Pricing isn't locked in yet, but expect between $1100 and $1500 for a set to your specifications. Call him for details. I'm sure that the more interest he gets the faster this will turn into a purchasable product.