Ok as i'll have in a complete ecu change in the next couple of weeks i'll be building up an engine to twin turbo....

there was a 3.0lt vs 3.5lt thread a while ago but what im after is

Is the 3.0lt better to mod caz the pistons are stronger and rev's harder ?

or go the 3.5lt for that bit extra torque???

ahhh desicions

id go the 3.5, stronger bottom end, and more grunt!!!!!:D

the 3L does rev a bit freer...

Ok as i'll have in a complete ecu change in the next couple of weeks i'll be building up an engine to twin turbo....

there was a 3.0lt vs 3.5lt thread a while ago but what im after is

Is the 3.0lt better to mod caz the pistons are stronger and rev's harder ?

or go the 3.5lt for that bit extra torque???

ahhh desicions

like i said 3.0l are a great engine stick with it not much difference anyways

id go the 3.5, stronger bottom end, and more grunt!!!!!




Agreed...i started to TT a 3.5 engine. The pistons are fully floating on a 3.5 and not on the 3. The extra capacity will also make it easier for you to make grunt. I read about a company who single turboed a 3.5 and it made 550 hp at the flywheel on 14psi. I would go some slightly lower comp pistons (if you can get them, as it is difficult to raise the pin height anymore as it is alreadly close to the oil control ring grove) Ill have a look and see if i still have one of the manifiolds i made.... might do as a jig for you or something. Try SPS in VIC for pistons....Standard rods should do the job easily unless you are going ballistic and standard crank is tuff as nails.

id go the 3.5, stronger bottom end, and more grunt!!!!!




Agreed...i started to TT a 3.5 engine. The pistons are fully floating on a 3.5 and not on the 3. The extra capacity will also make it easier for you to make grunt. I read about a company who single turboed a 3.5 and it made 550 hp at the flywheel on 14psi. I would go some slightly lower comp pistons (if you can get them, as it is difficult to raise the pin height anymore as it is alreadly close to the oil control ring grove) Ill have a look and see if i still have one of the manifiolds i made.... might do as a jig for you or something. Try SPS in VIC for pistons....Standard rods should do the job easily unless you are going ballistic and standard crank is tuff as nails.

dont waste your money one buying a 3.5l just stay with the 3.0l all at the top with the 3.0l you will make more grunt but hardly any

id go the 3.5, stronger bottom end, and more grunt!!!!!




Agreed...i started to TT a 3.5 engine. The pistons are fully floating on a 3.5 and not on the 3. The extra capacity will also make it easier for you to make grunt. I read about a company who single turboed a 3.5 and it made 550 hp at the flywheel on 14psi. I would go some slightly lower comp pistons (if you can get them, as it is difficult to raise the pin height anymore as it is alreadly close to the oil control ring grove) Ill have a look and see if i still have one of the manifiolds i made.... might do as a jig for you or something. Try SPS in VIC for pistons....Standard rods should do the job easily unless you are going ballistic and standard crank is tuff as nails.

well ive heard that the 3.0ltr pistons are stronger then the 3.5lt's thats why im confused bout it

well ive heard that the 3.0ltr pistons are stronger then the 3.5lt's thats why im confused bout it

they are stronger the 3.5l are just a little bigger

they are stronger the 3.5l are just a little bigger
do u know this for a fact or just goin on wat you've heard ??

[QUOTE=Meh]do u know this for a fact or just goin on wat you've heard ??[/QUOTE

im all about facts meh :cool:

++++
Greetings All.

Ok guys, heres the deal...

The 3L has stronger pistons...the piston sizes should be EXACTLY the diameter, but i think the 3.5L pistons are not as thick because they stroked the engine, not bored it out...hence weaker/cheaper pistons...

Cheers,
--Tonba
++++

why dont you go for the extra capacity of the 3.5 and just put some stronger forged pistons in it or something? then you have the advantage of being able to run considerably more boost then you could on a 3.0l with stock pistons. Best of everything.. just may cost a little more.

I know that ACL make complete rebuild kits (pistons along with alot of other little things like bearings) for an ecotec V6 commodore engine for around 800 or something.. so i doubt just pistons for a 3.5 magna would cost anymore then that.. a small price to pay for more power and increased reliability in my opinion

wats acl ????
and if the rebuild kits are only that much dammmmmmmmmm hope its the same for a magna's

im getting custom pistons made up but if a rebuild kit is only this much then i can afford some forged pistons

can u get back to me on who acl are RJL25 ??

According to mitsi, the 3.5 is bored and stroked which means the pistons will be bigger/different, if like monjunior said the gudgeon pins are higher up the piston definately go for the 3.5, the longer rod to stroke ratio you can get the better, and the higher the gudgeon pin the less cylinder wall wear you get.

Matthius

P.s : Nothing gives power as cheap as cubes :P

id go the 3.5, stronger bottom end, and more grunt!!!!!




Agreed...i started to TT a 3.5 engine. The pistons are fully floating on a 3.5 and not on the 3. The extra capacity will also make it easier for you to make grunt. I read about a company who single turboed a 3.5 and it made 550 hp at the flywheel on 14psi. I would go some slightly lower comp pistons (if you can get them, as it is difficult to raise the pin height anymore as it is alreadly close to the oil control ring grove) Ill have a look and see if i still have one of the manifiolds i made.... might do as a jig for you or something. Try SPS in VIC for pistons....Standard rods should do the job easily unless you are going ballistic and standard crank is tuff as nails.
so wats the difference between full floating and not ??

here are some spec's that might help
the 3.5's also get 4 bolt mains

ACL are the only rebuild components i use, great value for money. I have race series rings and bearings which are only a few extra dollars compared to std jobbies. Repco use ACL while rebuilding their recon'd engines for sale

*****
its turbo_charade atm
*****

Meh - ACL is just a company that manufactures pistons, piston rings and bearings etc. They make rebuild kits for various different engines and they are as previously said very good value and tough as nuts. I have heard people using them in V6 commodores running around 16-18psi.

There is no substitute to cubic capacity. And the 3.5l has 4 bolt mains. Enuf said.

if you have the money, i would also look at boring out the cylinders (i have heard that the 3.5 can be bored to a max of 3.8) and putting some bigger pistons in to fill the holes. This would provide even more torque, which can help compensate for any turbo lag you might get with a wound up turbo setup

just thoughts...

3.0L for sure...

i wouldnt of changed my 3L for anything...

the 3L is lighter, hence ive had mine revving beyond 7000rpm.. my redline cutout isnt till 8200!! :redface: try get a 3.5 to rev that hard!

also 3.0L engines, need parts... easy.... how many engines share the "6g72" block... :cool: if you want forged, hpyerpumatic (sp?:S), oem replacments, its all readily available.

and for all you guys who are so confident with your "there's no replacment for displacment" - read my sig :cool:

nuf' said... 6G72 to infinity and beyond!

3.0L for sure...

i wouldnt of changed my 3L for anything...

the 3L is lighter, hence ive had mine revving beyond 7000rpm.. my redline cutout isnt till 8200!! :redface: try get a 3.5 to rev that hard!

also 3.0L engines, need parts... easy.... how many engines share the "6g72" block... :cool: if you want forged, hpyerpumatic (sp?:S), oem replacments, its all readily available.

and for all you guys who are so confident with your "there's no replacment for displacment" - read my sig :cool:

nuf' said... 6G72 to infinity and beyond!

you make good points, but i really do think that ultimately, the 3.5 has more power potential, however it will probably cost more money to get there as you would likely need stronger internals in the 3.5 to get it to rev as hard as the 3.0.

you make good points, but i really do think that ultimately, the 3.5 has more power potential, however it will probably cost more money to get there as you would likely need stronger internals in the 3.5 to get it to rev as hard as the 3.0.

ahh this is the answer i was after... the 3.0lt costs lests will rev harder

3.0lt it is, its been great for me and yeh i geuss im gonna stick to it

petrol in = power out. to get petrol in you need air in. to get air in you need dispalcement, rpm or pressure. therefor rpm = power :wink:

ide stick with a 3L too if i were you.

Most factory motors utilize pressed in pin-fit arrangements, but for high performance, the general practice is to drill the small end of the connecting rod for oiling and convert to a full-floating piston pin arrangement. Full-floating pistons create less friction and utilize specialized pin retainers. As the engine spins, floating pins allow the rod to compensate for the inevitable slight misalignment of the rod, crank, and piston, and orient itself more precisely with the crank journal and pin. It is possible to carry out this mod to a 6G72, the strength of the pistons in the standard engines will be irrelevant if you are putting in forged pistons of which are a necesity for strength and reliability in any turbo engine build up, the 6G74 has 4 bolt mains which would be a big plus in strength and reliability and more revs doesnt equal more power unless the rest of the engine and hardware can meet and exceed the efficiency of the rest of the engine.
I have no doubt that the 6G72 done properly will easily be able meet youre requirements but my decission rests with the 6G74 as the extra capacity is an added bonus...you do not need to rev the engine if it makes the same or more power lower in the revs and certainly more torque.... the car will be quicker with increased torque and horsepower lower in the revs and be more of an animal on the street....sensible turbocharger sizing will also effect this. Turbocharged and asprated cars producing the same horsepower, on a quarter mile the turbocharged vehicle will run roughly 2 tenths faster and have a higher MPH due to the increase in torque alone.....(again..if the turbochargers are correctly matched). The 4 bolt mains and factory full floaters are also the other draw cards.

yeh meh it basically comes down to what you want out of the engine. If you want a nice torquey engine with plenty of power everywhere in the rev range, and dont care if it will only rev to 6500 rpm or there abouts, then the 3.5 is for you.

but if you want an engine that you will be able to rev the tits off all the way to 8000rpm and beyond, and dont mind too much if the low to mid range is a touch soft then the 3.0 all the way. I know that booya is gonna dissagree with my "touch soft" comment, but just to clarify i dont mean a touch soft in terms of normal engines, but perhaps a touch soft compared to what you would get if you did the same mods to a 3.5.

basically 3.5 = low to mid range torque
3.0 = oops im bouncing off the rev limiter again

yer i will need one that can rev alot more, because i'll be goin for the single turbo it wont have as much play time if it cuts off its rev range early

yer i will need one that can rev alot more, because i'll be goin for the single turbo it wont have as much play time if it cuts off its rev range early
NOW WE'RE TALKING!!! Revvy motors are the bomb :cool: nothing better than being a 5k and having 3000 more rpm to go :cool:

NOW WE'RE TALKING!!! Revvy motors are the bomb :cool: nothing better than being a 5k and having 3000 more rpm to go :cool:


Damn straight :cool:

Bring on REVS just for the wank factor if anything... balance it right, and you could do the "BOOYA REV DANCE" - that is slam the 8000rpm limiter with power all the way to cut-out :cool:

Damn straight :cool:

Bring on REVS just for the wank factor if anything... balance it right, and you could do the "BOOYA REV DANCE" - that is slam the 8000rpm limiter with power all the way to cut-out :cool:

booya what have you done that lets your engine rev so high?? do you just trust the internals of the 6G72, or have you done some modifying in there?

how much money is this all gonna cost?

my god how crazy is 8000rpm thats bloody beautiful!!although i like revvy motors i like the torque.if i wanted revvy id by a 4 banger.but with booya's 600nm and revvy thats brilliant!!!

ive driven a honda s2000 before.let me tell you there is nothing better than sititing on 4500rpm ont he highway and knowing you still got another 4500rpm to go.they go like the clappers.but totally different class of car i suppose

costing me enough but not too much
but hey it'll be a brand new engine wen i put it in

can u give me a ball park figue.
like 0-5k
5-10k
10-15k

in the future im gonna look at this option if i decide to keep the car

well buyin a dud engine $300
then either source all the parts myself or get a rebuild kit, some one said a rebuild kit arounf $800 thats for a v6 holden ecotech one

but im leaving $3000 for the rebuild thats doin it all myself and a few cashies for the decompressed pistons and wat not and any other little dramas that might get stuck on the way
so hopefully should be around $2500

including turbo?
dam thats pretty cheep if it is

oh no thats just the engine rebuilding

Meh i would try to stay with a genuine VRS at least....the head gaskets are metal shim....if you go ACL they will be a composite material and the cam seals will be plain rubber and are affected by heat easily. Revised genuine ones are viton and will tolerate much hotter temps and dont harden and leak. Hence why ACL gasket set is so cheap.

Damn straight :cool:

Bring on REVS just for the wank factor if anything... balance it right, and you could do the "BOOYA REV DANCE" - that is slam the 8000rpm limiter with power all the way to cut-out :cool:


:cool: i valve bounce at 8,500 odd, i keep it below 8,300

booya what have you done that lets your engine rev so high?? do you just trust the internals of the 6G72, or have you done some modifying in there?


where do i start

*opens file cabernet with engine rebuilt information and invoices totaling $17,500 for the engine mods and tuning alone (excluding the fuel system)*

mmmmm... :cool:

let me see - everthing that can be done has been done. the ONLY stock parts in the motor is
a) block
b) sump case

crank, cams, valves, valvesprings and combustion chambers all be modified. Crank, has been balanced as well as the conrods, cams well, ive spoken there before.... bascially the whole engine has been balanced and flowed (heads, cylinder chambers etc etc)

full boost by 3500rpm, and just hold it flat :cool:

The four bolt mains in the 3.5 are a bonus ... but a full cradle could be built for the 3.0 litre no problems or even cross bolting the mains (similar to the 6 bolt mains in the toyota V8)

But you'd be wanting serious horsepower by that stage ... and would think AWD or RWD would be a conversion you'd be entertaining.!!

I have the 3.0 litre (TT), and will be sticking in a full rebuilt 3.0 litre, and not going to the 3.5.

Why, because the 3.0 litre is lighter, revs harder and is overall a SMOOTHER engine package.

Its not all about displacement .... look at the 1000+hp 2.6litre skylines!

go the 3.5lt, with the turbo you will have a car with better driverbility and with the boost you will not need the extra revs, it's wasted time.

nah mate, revs is where its

look at any race engine.

ok got some quotes for normal prices, but will get them better at trade later on.

from repco, $749.99 complete kit everything u need
global auto spares $900 same as above

global's comes with pro tech gaskets and said it would be alot more expensive to get it with the ACL gaskets
but repco's comes with the acl gaskets or apc who ever they are

does this sound alright ?

sounds fair, VRS set is around 300, rings 140, bearings 200

i dont know exact prices for magna parts though.

wats VRS ?

VRS gasket kit, Valve Regrind Set, comes with all the gaskets for a motor minus a few like sump and oil filter mounts, anything lower than the pistons generaly.

also has valve seals, cam seals, head gasket etc

from repco, $749.99 complete kit everything u need
global auto spares $900 same as above

The kits ... are they forged pistons??? I would think not given the price. A set of arias for a skyline would be around $1200-1400 just for the pistons alone.

Meh, if you are going forged let me know ... perhaps we can get a decent price for two sets :)

The kits ... are they forged pistons??? I would think not given the price. A set of arias for a skyline would be around $1200-1400 just for the pistons alone.

Meh, if you are going forged let me know ... perhaps we can get a decent price for two sets :)
nah not doin forgies
jsut getting some decompressed ones

Seriously, if your doing a FULL rebuild, then it should'nt matter wether the engine is 3.0 or 3.5, it should rev just as hard in either configuration.

Consider when F1 went from N/A 3.5 to N/A 3.0, they lost power. I doubt that the engines were anymore rev happy in 3.0 configuration as they were in 3.5 fashion. As I recall, the 3.5's ran at about 15000 rpm when they phased out, now after 10+ years they are peaking about 18000 to 19000 in 3.0 form. In other words, I dont feel displacement is anyway responsible for what RPM the engine achieves. It probably got more to do with induction and exhaust flow.

I cannot see why a 3.0 should rev so much harder than a 3.5 given they are nearly identical in their architecture anyway. Anyone got a real explanation as to why the 3.0 should be more "rev-happy" than the 3.5 and why a few simple modifications should'nt be able to make the 3.5 just as "rev-happy" as a 3.0??? :confused:

nah not doin forgies
jsut getting some decompressed ones

meh who is doing the mechanical work on your engine? sounds like you really need to have a good talk to someone who knows their stuff cos alot of us who are giving you advice couldnt really be considered experts

im doin all the rebuild with my mate who is a mechanic
the install is getting done through hardcore racing where they are putting in all the manifolds and stuff

im doin all the rebuild with my mate who is a mechanic
the install is getting done through hardcore racing where they are putting in all the manifolds and stuff

are you getting all your compnents balanced? the engine will rev much better if you do.. it can cost a bit tho

Seriously, if your doing a FULL rebuild, then it should'nt matter wether the engine is 3.0 or 3.5, it should rev just as hard in either configuration.

Consider when F1 went from N/A 3.5 to N/A 3.0, they lost power. I doubt that the engines were anymore rev happy in 3.0 configuration as they were in 3.5 fashion. As I recall, the 3.5's ran at about 15000 rpm when they phased out, now after 10+ years they are peaking about 18000 to 19000 in 3.0 form. In other words, I dont feel displacement is anyway responsible for what RPM the engine achieves. It probably got more to do with induction and exhaust flow.

I cannot see why a 3.0 should rev so much harder than a 3.5 given they are nearly identical in their architecture anyway. Anyone got a real explanation as to why the 3.0 should be more "rev-happy" than the 3.5 and why a few simple modifications should'nt be able to make the 3.5 just as "rev-happy" as a 3.0??? :confused:

good points to be made, but also remember that F1 cars are governed by rules as to how much power they put out - they are also limited to its physical displacment ;)

so i think, specially that the F1 teams spend B$ on their development, they will make a 3.0 with just as much power if not more then the mind could even handle.

as for the original question, i think the matter was directed at the point that, would there be benifits from upgrading his 3.0L to a 3.5L before he continues to mod it furhter.

because we are not talking some form of motorsport track going car with unlimited budget, there is no reason why his, mine, and even too_slow's 3L is up to to job at hand. the job at hand is to be turbo charged.

oh, and i belive Mr THomas from a company in perth has smashed his 3.5L a few times... hey, what ever happened to Velocity's 3.5L TT? is it still broken.....? (no punching ribs, just asking questions)

there are now 4, 3.0L magna engines with turbos bolted to them, and NOT ONE of them have had problems... a company in perth who has turbo'd two 3.5L...and both broken :(

Hail, Oh'Mighty 3.0L 6G72' - Built MITSUBISHI Tough!

also proven fact that you can detonate a 3.0L to death, and it still wont break. the 72' BLOCKS are just far superior to their bored out counterparts.

pity bout the gearboxes though lol

I personally would stay with the 3.0L...

Ive got a 3.5L ralliart now, and, although i love the car... the 3.0L did sound good when you gave it a hiding eh lol

pity bout the gearboxes though lol

I personally would stay with the 3.0L...

Ive got a 3.5L ralliart now, and, although i love the car... the 3.0L did sound good when you gave it a hiding eh lol


to be completely honest, if i ever bought another magna, with the intention of boosting it, id buy myself ANOTHER 3.0L block...

do away with the 3.5 rubbish

like my sig says.
"A GT40R is the magnas repalcment for its lack of displacment" :badgrin:

yep engine will be all balanced
thats y i bought a dud engine so it can be completly rebuild and ballanced so i can take my time doin it and not be without a car for a long time

i mean dam mines got 267000km on it now and ive pumped 10 bottles of deoderant through it now and its still goin strong

must smell nice ;)

good points to be made, but also remember that F1 cars are governed by rules as to how much power they put out - they are also limited to its physical displacment ;).

Correction, they are limited to their physical displacement but not how much power they produce. They also have restrictions as to their exhaust designs and intake designs. Sorry to nitpick cause it basically means the same thing anyway. lol




there are now 4, 3.0L magna engines with turbos bolted to them, and NOT ONE of them have had problems... a company in perth who has turbo'd two 3.5L...and both broken :(

Hail, Oh'Mighty 3.0L 6G72' - Built MITSUBISHI Tough!

also proven fact that you can detonate a 3.0L to death, and it still wont break. the 72' BLOCKS are just far superior to their bored out counterparts.
The 6g74 blocks are not bored out, per a recent thread discussion the difference between the 74 and the 72 is stroke. The 74 block is taller than the 72. Plus the 74 has the 4 bolt mains. I dont think that the 72 has superior strength at all, probably comes down the engineering expertise of the person working with the engine and choosing what components will work best. From everything I have seen and heard, the 6g74 should produce better results, not only through displacement, but also through stengthened design>?? :think:

The Block in the 3.5 is bored out,where it isn't on the 3 litre which could add to why the 3litre is more tolerant???

What size is in the Mitsubishi GTO/3000GT????? I don't think it was a 3.5litre...

You cannot say that a 3.5 litre would go harder if the same mods are done to it..

1. Its a heavier Engine
2. Its power per litre is less then the 3litre
3 There is less room in the engine bay for piping, It could lead to heat problems even with a front mounted cooler...
4. They don't rev as hard as has been previously stated..

In performance cars it is all down to power to weight... Why use a Heavier engine when the lighter 3litre will do just as good job and chew less Petrol....

why stroke an RB26DETT to 2.8 or 3.0ltrs.....
why stroke a WRX 2.0ltr out to 2.4ltrs.....

why not use a 3.5ltr instead of a 3.0ltr....

i wonder :think:

I dont really understand the theory behind people just wanting a 3 litre due to the fact that it might rev harder....wont matter as long as it makes good streetable power. To me less revvy is more streetable in so many ways. Never to worry. The weight difference between these 2 engines would be negligable as would be the space in the engine bay...less than 2 inches of deck height. The 1000hp+ nissan skylines...sure they may rev to 8500rpm but i bet its a ****box to drive on the street.....most likely makes 3psi 0f boost at 6800rpm and snaps to 8500rpm. Sorry not my idea of a nice street car.
None of this really matters anyway as it is up to meh and his amte to build a tuf turbo magna. Onya mate. ;)

I dont really understand the theory behind people just wanting a 3 litre due to the fact that it might rev harder....wont matter as long as it makes good streetable power. To me less revvy is more streetable in so many ways. Never to worry. The weight difference between these 2 engines would be negligable as would be the space in the engine bay...less than 2 inches of deck height. The 1000hp+ nissan skylines...sure they may rev to 8500rpm but i bet its a ****box to drive on the street.....most likely makes 3psi 0f boost at 6800rpm and snaps to 8500rpm. Sorry not my idea of a nice street car.
None of this really matters anyway as it is up to meh and his amte to build a tuf turbo magna. Onya mate. ;)
Also doesent the 3.5 have a lower compression ratio than the 3.0, making it more suitable for a turbo set up ? and allowing more boost

I dont really understand the theory behind people just wanting a 3 litre due to the fact that it might rev harder....wont matter as long as it makes good streetable power. To me less revvy is more streetable in so many ways. Never to worry. The weight difference between these 2 engines would be negligable as would be the space in the engine bay...less than 2 inches of deck height. The 1000hp+ nissan skylines...sure they may rev to 8500rpm but i bet its a ****box to drive on the street.....most likely makes 3psi 0f boost at 6800rpm and snaps to 8500rpm. Sorry not my idea of a nice street car.
None of this really matters anyway as it is up to meh and his amte to build a tuf turbo magna. Onya mate. ;)


im going to make a video, to prove how streetable a well tuned turbo car is...

i mean seriously, its all about tuning... tune it right, and you have a streetable car.

Not necessary booya, i know what ya saying. Especially about tuning. Not disputing youre car dont go well either.

The Block in the 3.5 is bored out,where it isn't on the 3 litre which could add to why the 3litre is more tolerant???
Have you ever heard of a "block failure". I have'nt. Sure as hell a 6g72/74 block has not failed in my experience. So that point is null and void.
The 6g74 uses a longer stroke, not a larger bore. The cylinder walls are no thinner than a 6g72 as they use the same heads. The block is simply taller.


What size is in the Mitsubishi GTO/3000GT????? I don't think it was a 3.5litre...

You cannot say that a 3.5 litre would go harder if the same mods are done to it..

Proof??? :nuts: (pointless comment)



1. Its a heavier Engine

Why?, if per your previous point above its been bored out, it should be lighter :nuts:

For the record, its not a heavier block, even it was, the amount of weight were talking here is irrelevant????



2. Its power per litre is less then the 3litre

Yes it is, but thats how mitus have designed it. Given a 3.5L engine I reckon more HP can be gotten out of it if an aftermarket engineer chose to make it that way. Remember noise and comfort are not options here. In mitsu, they chose to retard the engine for purposes of NVH. That restriction is not applicable in this circumstance.




3 There is less room in the engine bay for piping, It could lead to heat problems even with a front mounted cooler...

Between a 3.5 and 3.0 there is no less room, they are basically the same engine. Might want to check that :nuts:




4. They don't rev as hard as has been previously stated..

Perhaps they dont, but they have more torque and power and thats god enough for me. Fck the revs :badgrin:



In performance cars it is all down to power to weight... Why use a Heavier engine when the lighter 3litre will do just as good job and chew less Petrol....

Again, the 3.5 is not heavier...find me proof that it is and I will eat my words :doubt:

i thought i saw your name at the bottom of this thread for ages lol

im going to make a video, to prove how streetable a well tuned turbo car is...

i mean seriously, its all about tuning... tune it right, and you have a streetable car.

tune your car to go 0-100km/h in 4.5sec without spinning the wheels..............

it ain't all about tuning

I was wrong about the compression ratio i was thinking of the 12v 3.0 but heres a table of specs if it hellps
................................. 3.0.............................................. 3.5
Block material............... Cast-iron...................................... Cast-iron
Bore (mm).................... 91.1............................................ 93.0
Capacity (cm3)............. 2972............................................34 97
Compression ratio.......... 9.0:1........................................... 9.0:1
Configuration.................V-formation...................................V-formation
Cylinders.......................6................. .................................6
Engine code...................6G72-S4.......................................6G74
Engine description...........V6/SOHC/4v..................................V6/SOHC/4v
Head material.................Aluminium alloy...............................Aluminium alloy
Maximum power..............140kW @ 5500rpm......................... 155kW @ 5000rpm
Maximum torque.............255Nm @ 4500rpm...........................316Nm @ 4000rpm
Stroke (mm)..................76.0........................ ......................85.8
Valve train.................... SOHC...........................................SOH C
Valves per cylinder..........4............................... ...................4

people say here that rev's isnt everything.

put it in this perspective

without changint the gear ratios OR the diff ratio

if *this* 3.0L *does* rev to 8000rpm, in say, 2nd gear, compared to a 3.5, which will rev to 5000rpm

who will have the better top end speed?

think this too,
when ihad my Highcomp engine, it also flat shifted it at approx 7500rpm,
now, i think a lot of you guys are well and truely into 4th gear at the end of your 1/4mile,

i was still screaming in 3rd at the end of my run :cool:

not having to shift = time saving,

if you want astrip monster, you want to shift as little time as possible
, cos in the .3 of a second your shifting your 3.5L the 3L will scream ahead (assuming all specs, and power outputs are the same) and even *if* you could change the gear in the exact same time as your 3.5L, your still ahead...

because you can go for longer, just as fast, in the same time....

makes sense?

I said a street monster not a strip monster.

people say here that rev's isnt everything.

put it in this perspective

without changint the gear ratios OR the diff ratio

if *this* 3.0L *does* rev to 8000rpm, in say, 2nd gear, compared to a 3.5, which will rev to 5000rpm

who will have the better top end speed?

think this too,
when ihad my Highcomp engine, it also flat shifted it at approx 7500rpm,
now, i think a lot of you guys are well and truely into 4th gear at the end of your 1/4mile,

i was still screaming in 3rd at the end of my run :cool:

not having to shift = time saving,

if you want astrip monster, you want to shift as little time as possible
, cos in the .3 of a second your shifting your 3.5L the 3L will scream ahead (assuming all specs, and power outputs are the same) and even *if* you could change the gear in the exact same time as your 3.5L, your still ahead...

because you can go for longer, just as fast, in the same time....

makes sense?

i go across the line in 3rd in my stock 3.5ltr 5 speed :nuts:

I said a street monster not a strip monster.

gets to that intersecion on one less cog lol

i think the 3.0L box also has longer ratio's then the 3.5L box... or is it the other way around, either way, if both were the same, specs, id still take the 3L donk anyday of the week!

i go across the line in 3rd in my stock 3.5ltr 5 speed :nuts:


the post above mentions a gearbox change.

find a 3.0L box and i dont think your still in 3rd ;)

but the point of that post was explained, irrivlant of its correctness in engine/gbox specs.

Fair call mate...id go the other way.lol

im going to make a video, to prove how streetable a well tuned turbo car is...

i mean seriously, its all about tuning... tune it right, and you have a streetable car.

but what happens when you have some tough cams and monster throttle bodys
:badgrin:

i do rate the 3L over the 3.5 tho, cheaper to replace and revs are teh shlt

shouldn't the 3L have shorter gears cos it revs more?

maybe just the diff changes

but what happens when you have some tough cams and monster throttle bodys
:badgrin:

spend an extra 20hours tuning it :badgrin: :badgrin:

spend an extra 20hours tuning it :badgrin: :badgrin:

nothing you can do with long duration and huge lift under 2000rpm

but what if it takes the 3.0ltr 30secs to rev to 8000rpm and reach say 100km/h
and it only takes the 3.5ltr 20secs to rev to 6000rpm and reach 100km/h

who's got the better top end and the faster car?

I've always said the more cubes you start with the easier it is to go harder. Start with a bigger engine and mod that.

but what if it takes the 3.0ltr 30secs to rev to 8000rpm and reach say 100km/h
and it only takes the 3.5ltr 20secs to rev to 6000rpm and reach 100km/h

who's got the better top end and the faster car?


Jezus christ! - are you trying to run diesel or something!!! -

yes, i can see your point, but revs isnt something that will be "time dependant", the only time i could see your senario being actively worth trying to caculate,

if you were in a gear ratio, that needed Xamount of power and torque to pull. - but in gears, 1, 2, 3, and most of 4, any forced induction car on a manga will rev out very easy.

Just to clarify ...

The 3.0 litre is smoother. It has a shorter stroke, and this leads to a smoother engine via LOWER piston speeds. This also means the engine is less likely to be stressed.

The 3.0 also has a smaller and lighter flywheel, meaning it will spin up faster.

The block is shorter, and as both are cast iron the 3.0l is lighter (not much but it would be at least 5kg).

That said the extra 500cc ... is not something to be scoffed at. My take would be if you have a 3.5 stick to it. If you have the 3.0, stick to that. In all honesty unless you are going to spend big bucks ... you are not going to get much more out of a 3.5 than you would a 3.0 once you introduce boost. I think Dave vs Booya is indicative of that, both pushing similar power figures ... at similar boost levels.

I guess it comes down to preference, do you want a screamer, that can hold second gear to 125km/h or do you want something that pulls like a 14 year old, but gets ugly by 6500.

There are other things to consider for me, for instance due to the different deck height I would have to rework some of my piping to go to a 3.5. I would also have to purchase a new clutch (for the bigger flywheel). These things add up, so I am putting my money into just getting more "boost" into the 3.0 so as to get more power.

To the people thinking a 3.0 "turbo" screamer is "unstreetable". Thats the biggest load of codswallop I ever heard. Driving around in traffic a 3.0 reaching 4-5 psi of boost at 2500rpm is VERY EASY to drive. It can definitely pull a sailor off your sister!

Oh, and what happened to velocities car?? Please don't tell me its broken! :(

well aparently the 3.0 and 3.5 run different gearboxes but still can be bolted on...


ah doesnt matter any way ive bought my 3.0 ready for the rebuild