What's better in some opinions! Fair price difference for the 3 way set. Is it THAT much better? I was just going to bi-amp the 165's with 100wrms x4. Don't really WANT to stuff around.... but always tempted if they're significantly better. I'd rather spend the money on sound deadening, but just thought I'd ask!

I got a healthy dose of responsibilty a short while ago.... :( So no wild RE and Zapco dreams anymore... or even Audison!!! Still, life goes on, and I'll go deaf more cheaply. Hertz seem reasonable for the moolah.

Havent heard these 3 ways but have heard other hertz 3 ways...

When putting in 3 ways you have to think about how much effort you're willing to use with installation and also how practical the car is after their installation.

If you can make some nice pods for them I would recommend it, otherwise it's not always the more speakers the better. Some of the best systems have two ways and a woofer. Sometime's the simpler the better, especially if you dont have the equipment to equalise the whole setup.

My recommendation would be to go with the HSK's but I'm biased owning a pair myself. The HSK's give out really good midbass. They have a big magnet and are built pretty tough. The cone is moulded into the surround.
Definetly go nuts on the sound deadening if you are going to put that much power through your fronts, you wont regret it. Otherwise your front doors will be going crazy at 1/4 volume.

Peace

Tim

Cheers tim. I think I'll just go the 2 ways. Can't be stuffed making pods. I will however be doing 18mm mdf baffles to mount in, and sealing the doors totally. Diffusers behind the drivers, and deadening on every possible place. Would rather spend a bit more there than more on speakers. And the difference between the 2 and 3 ways will go a fair way towards the sound deadener. I trust your opinion on the hertz too. ;) What is a good cheap sub? I really really don't want to spend all that much anymore. :( Would like 2x12". But if you can convince me that 1 12 can match 2 12's. I should start a new thread perhaps, but hey... no-one replied anyway! :D Can I hijack my own thread? Please please please?

Ohhhh, look who it is. I've never heard either lol haha. Yeah, might as well go balls out on the 2way + sound deadening. Like timmeh has said, good midbass. I need sound deadening desperately too :( Plus, you'll be feeding enuf power into the splits anyway.

As for your sub thing, if u dont feel like spending too much money, of course a single 12 is the way to go. Definately no point with two subs unless u like the look, and u have the power. Might as well get a hertz sub :P Hertz everything hehe. What amp r u going to run it with anyways?

Seeing as tho u'd still want some space....JL are quite nice for this. W3 or W6 in a nice tightly sealed box. Or something from diamond audio the IDMAX(exy) or momo polk

btw. go to sleep! its late

Pfft as if late! I just got home.
Good idea with the door preparation. All the hard labour will pay off.

Let me know before you do it, best to do it right the first time cos its impossible to fix it up without redoing it all. :(
Main things are taping the lock rods and sealing the HUGE service holes.
Purchase 'Sound off' or similar paint on stuff for the door trims. The stuff is amazing, sets like a rock.

Consider making a new mount for the speakers (not just the baffle) Try replacing the whole plastic mould that the speaker sits on with MDF. (I need to do this sometime)

Now the Hertz HSK-165 have a pretty big X-max (excursion) and the bullet dustcap in the centre has a habit of excurting into the grille itself at full extension on a baffle (At least thats what i think was happening). I had to router out my baffle bigtime. Still a very solid mount, but it sat flush inside the baffle. This stopped all these problems.

2 cheaper subs, or one good sub?

At the moment I'm running a pissy little Pioneer 10" in a sealed box. However temporary this has more than enough to over power my front speakers. Most people have too much bass in their car when they install sub(s). If you're after good quality sound. That has a nice flat response. 1 sub will be plenty. Put more effort into your front door preparation I say. And more effort into powering your sub cleanly.
Look for an efficient sub (High sensitivity) this will get more volume out of less power.
I'd recommend a big sealed box (according to sub specs) to get predictable results. Porting will get that extra bit of volume and a lot more air movement.

Peace

Tim

At the moment I'm running a pissy little Pioneer 10" in a sealed box. However temporary this has more than enough to over power my front speakers. Most people have too much bass in their car when they install sub(s). If you're after good quality sound. That has a nice flat response. 1 sub will be plenty. Put more effort into your front door preparation I say. And more effort into powering your sub cleanly.
Look for an efficient sub (High sensitivity) this will get more volume out of less power.
I'd recommend a big sealed box (according to sub specs) to get predictable results. Porting will get that extra bit of volume and a lot more air movement.


Everybody likes sub-heavy action :D Except for sq freak audiophiles...pfft :gtfo: :P

Phil, I thought u need to build door pods anyways if u had to get 2 ways..I don't think there is anywhere u can mount the speakers on the doors. :nuts: But yer, one sub, one box, and 6 amps :badgrin:

Thanks again fellas! ;)

Tim - Mine is a humble 2nd gen with no door mounted speakers at all. I have clean slate to play with. I haven't pulled the door trims off yet, but I know there is speaker holes behind, and I don't think there's any plastic web stuff like the 3rd gens.

Eek - I shouldn't need to make pods. I'll mount the tweets in those sexy little bits of plastic that could possibly be called kicks. They're currently hiding a distro block and 2 fuses. :) Well, up a ways under the glovebox at least. But I think the midbass driver can get mounted in the door without too much hassle. I'll make a cool mdf mount or something. Wouldn't mind angling the driver in and up a bit.

The amp I'm going to have for subs is the response 150wrmsx2. It bridges to 450wrms, which I think will be enough power for me. Bass heavy action is fun I guess, but I prefer sq. And I hear you laugh with hertz and jaycar gear... but I swear I will make this gear sound good.

I think I will go a single 12, and get a slightly better one. I'll build the box myself for sure, and definitely sealed!!!! Don't like hearing bass a second after it's been played. What are hertz subs like anyway? Was half thinking about that. But DD, or Diamond subs might fall into the range of my money. 300 - 400 bucks for sub driver I'd be willing to consider. Don't know what the lower ranges of these brand subs are like. I know I should keep an eye out for a 2nd hand xxx12, but it's too time consuming for me to keep abreast of all the places, and they'd still be too exy I think.

Amp for the splits will be the new series response 4x100wrms with rca thru. Will fit perfectly into my planned system! And I don't even have to change my head unit yet, which is a good bonus for money saving. It's a pioneer unit, fairly low range, but does what it's supposed to, and is suprisingly decent (with unamped 6x9s it showed no noticeable clipping or distortion at 100% volume - quite amazing).

Yeah, that paint on deadening will be useful I think. Do you paint the back of the interior trims? My car has power windows, which is useful for no winders! Hopefully I can make the diffuser not get in the way of the window glass. I'll certainly seal up the holes, and seal every possible place, and generally make the doors weigh a couple of tonnes each. Biggest problem for rattles is the stupid door lock knob!!! It's a bit loose. Need to fix it anyway. The SE doors are pretty solid in the 2nd gens by the feel of them anyway. They seem more robust than the 3rd gens. Lots of carpet on the trim too. Good for reflections at least! They just seem denser than the 3rd gens I've been in. Here's hoping anyway.

If I could save up enough to buy a digi cam along with everything else that is the expenditure they term life, then I'd be able to post up pics! not that there's anything flash to see. I think I did a nice clean job of putting the amp under my passenger seat. I discovered that my car has got air con vents coming out under the seat. So at the moment, I have an air conditioned amp! And the gains are at less than half anyway. To say it's a spoilt amp is understatement. It's got 4 guage to inside the firewall, distro'd into 2 x 8 guage runs. So each amp gets it's own fused power line. And 8 guage earth. Twisted pair rcas are coming down the centre console. And thus far, NO engine noise at all. When the car is cold you get a slight clicking through the speakers, but I think that's something with the electronics in the car. I'm considering a 40amp filter anyway. If it bugs me I will get me... it goes away after 5 seconds and doesn't really bother me.

Is it just me? Or do the pre-made pioneer 2 x 12" boxes seem really really crummily made? The timber is not even decent mdf... it's like a some weird chipboard, and seems to be about 12mm. You tap the box and it just sounds really really transparent and hollow. I wasn't impressed anyway.

Tim, I'm also thinking of running some high mounted ambients off the h/u after I get the splits and sub and amp and deadening done. I think the h/u should be able to run these low powered yeah? Maybe get some verada pillar mounts or something? How's your ambient experiment going? And I am also thinking of trying to put my pioneer 6x9s in the back doors. But I REALLY can't see myself following through with that. They just don't look like they'll fit. And I don't want to deaden the doors too much. They're in boxes in the back of the wagon at the moment. I guess I like rear fill a bit... so maybe I'll just leave them off the h/u too in their boxes. They shouldn't get in the way of the sub too much. Anyway, I guess that'll get answered in playing around anyway. Maybe I'll get some coaxials for the rear fill. BTW I have a wagon.

Thanks for the words anyway guys. I'm settled on the hertz splits now, so that's good! And going to have fun deadening. We should have a deadening party eek. I bet my car ends up sounding better than yours anyway... :bowrofl:

And now you've made me do another long post! I was doing so well with the dumbed down short responses. Now it's all blown out! :D

Til next time dudes!

lol For some reason I thought u had a 3rd gen ;) Anyway
Yep u paint the back of the trims with the deadener. Just go nuts on them really.

My diffuser got in the way, but just use a lot of spray adhesive and they'll be fine. Don't mount them too low in the door either, your door fills up with water when it rains and the go all mouldy. If you leave a bit of a gap at the bottom it will stop this. Also make sure your drain holes are clear.

Beware, an airconditioned amp becomes a heated amp in winter. ;)

I take it that there's still a fuse at the battery, not just at each line aftre the distro?

As for ambients. It's hard to adjust them when running off the headunit. If you're willing to forego ur rears (or amp the rears off a front channel) you could have a fading adjustment through the rear channels. But you really do need some way to adjust their volume. As too much volume makes your soundstage painfully high. You just want 10% or less of the volume going through the ambients. They shouldn't be noticebable when the whole system is going.
All in all, unless you have a separate amp with highpass filters for them, you probably wont get good results through them. And you'd be better off with just the splits. But it could be an option in the future.

Wagons are cool for listening to music, like an auditorium lol

Peace

Tim

lol yeah, wouldn't be without me wagon, that's for sure! :) That's the point I was worried about with the ambients. Maybe down the line I'll figure something out. But it should be cool for now without em.

yes, I'm aware of amp heating in winter! but honestly, I'm a winter guy... and don't seem to ever use a heater in a car anyway. So I'm not worried!

How much gap you reckon for the bottom of the doors? I really need to pull the trims off, but just don't want to for the heck of it. Will do it when I've got the speakers and deadening and do it right first time.


Oh yeah, the battery has a nice fuse about 20cms from the terminal. :D

Any gap really, 3-5 cm, just so the diffuser isn't resting permanently in a pool of water.

I put my diffusers in when I did the doors, do can't say i noticed any difference. Would have been good to see the difference with and without.

Don't but the $50 ones that Car Audio places will recommend. Jaycar sells simple acoustic tiles for ~$7 for 2. Also deaden extensively behind the driver under the diffuser.

will do. Jaycar is my friend. I think I'll get jaycar deadening. I know it's a lesser quality. But I'm thinking a layer of that, and then paint on soundoff over the whole bang lot. I don't know... lol just being a cheapskate. How much is liquid soundoff stuff again?

Soundoff looks expensive, but theres a lot in there. A 1 litre tub is around $55-$65. Other options may include k&n liquid deadener, but it's not specifically for car audio. The sound off is sprinkled with metal shavings and is very heavy.

I've used the Jaycar deadening and still have some. And it doesnt compare to the Stinger/G Spot/Serenity Max / Astromat.

It is much thinner and the tar isn't as tacky. So it peels off if not applied correctly.

Try and get a 2 door stinger roadkill expert pack. $136 from autobarn. If you can afford it. But I see your point, the jaycar stuff it much cheaper. Up to you I guess. With deadening you get a lot of results from a little bit, so this may be suffice. Remember to thoroughly clean u pthe doors using prepsol, or degreaser.

hmmmm 2 doors for 136? That's not tooooooooooo bad. What say I do that, and then still paint the crap out of it all with soundoff? :D

I think I've found my sub!!!!! Phoenix gold xenon 12" 4ohm dvc. Gonna seriously look at this one!

Yep, the two door pack wasnt quite enough for me to cover the inside of the outer metal skin, and the inside of the inner metal skin. But the 3rd gen doors are pretty huge. Im sure that will cover a 2nd gen door np's.
If you do that and then sound off the trims, ul still have enough sound off to do ur parcel shelf or boot even.

I used half a tub on the two trims. (will need to do a bit more work on them still)

Cool, looks like you're going to have some nice quiet doors, only smooth bass.

Peace

Tim

I think I've found my sub!!!!! Phoenix gold xenon 12" 4ohm dvc. Gonna seriously look at this one!

ohhh, nice. Im thinking about getting rid of my big fat 15, and chuck a 12 in a tight sealed box....mmmm....wait till i get some more money.



AND WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON WITH THIS ANTI-EEK THING!!! Its like anti-eek day today or something :rant:

lol finally he rocks up...

Sick of the ol ported 15" already aye???

hehe I told you so...

My Phoenix Gold Tanrtums fell through. Went around to a mates place yesterday and they sounded pretty rooted. They were clanging when I tapped the cone :shock: Over driven i says. So the hunt continues. :(

PG Xenon, nice choice, they make some good gear, much better than a lot of the commercial stuff imo.

lol finally he rocks up...

Sick of the ol ported 15" already aye???

hehe I told you so...

My Phoenix Gold Tanrtums fell through. Went around to a mates place yesterday and they sounded pretty rooted. They were clanging when I tapped the cone :shock: Over driven i says. So the hunt continues.

PG Xenon, nice choice, they make some good gear, much better than a lot of the commercial stuff imo.

yeh. PG xenon, be sure to wire up the little blue LEDs :)

And just looking now...IT WAS U THAT STARTED THE ANTI-EEK PROTEST! See, i'm not even home and loook at all the mayhem you people have caused :disgusted

I wouldn't mind an idmax, or re xxx 12.

i hate you tim.. :rant:

lol thought u might like the attention... I love you too... :P

Feel the love... :redface:

I have the HSK165s in mine and they are brilliant; I just need to feed them more power (40WRMS/side at the moment). Front doors I used 6mm thick MDF to make baffles, then coated the outer door skin and inside door trim with G-spot liquid sound deadener, and the inner door skin is all sealed off and then has a layer of G-spot Serenity Max all over. The mid-bass is great with this setup.

lol thought u might like the attention... I love you too... :P

Feel the love... :redface:

I was happy with the amount of attention i was getting :confused: ........