anyone got a fuel surge tank in there car?

i want one and waas wondering how hard it is to fit and cost??

thanks

I had a feeling magnas were built with surge tanks - though after suffering fuel surge I am unsure!!

Maybe silvias have them and i remember researching them?? Hmm i dunno

Manual

Okay, fill me in. What's fuel surge and how does the tank work?

Im not to sure EXACTLY...but basically its a smaller tank normally in the boot that runs off the stock tank. BuT this tank stays full, so the fuel doesnt 'slosh' around when driving, there for no loss of fuel threw the lines. With this your car will not 'studder' after driving hard, or when on a hill where the fuel isnt going threw the lines!

A surge tank is simply a small tank usually a cylinder shape that has petrol go in the top from the main fuel tank and a pipe from the bottom going to the fuel rail. It simply stays topped up, so if you hook around a corner and the fuel pick up in the main tank loses fuel there is enough reserve in the surge tank to stop you car leaning out. Sort of like a anti skip CD player in around about way. I can when really hooking hard in my sports get the main tank to surge at 1/4 full so I'm really looking into a surge tank. Simple to make simple to install

Yeah, I've done the same. I've head it's not good for the injectors to do that often. Would be nice to protect them.

i have the problem 2, when i load the car up to the right, (weight on left wheels) i get fuel cutout!, it' sucks, i have a FPR that should help a little, but i have found cheaper the a surge tank, is just to have a FULL tank!, (but sometimes i'm a tight ass) and leave it on quarter

A surge tanks requires another pump to run and installing it in the engine bay will be too dangerous, installing it in the boot will make the whole car interior smell.. Personally, I don't think Magnas need them.. but that's just my opinion... :D 8)

nick, they are not suppose to leak, and hence there shuld be no smell,
if this were true, the access panel under the rear seat, to the fuel tanks, would "smell" and that is in the interia not in the boot?

They are benifical, but i am very sure that there is a baffle in the tank to help aviod the need for one, It's just not as effective once the petrol is low

this may also mean that you dont drive your car very hard nick!, i can unload my fuel rail easily!, maybe it's the lowered suspension, and the big wheels!????? who knows

I think you need to give me a 0-400m, time from the RSM, i can give you one from the drag strip, and i intend to go back to the strip as soon as i have my car back,

I was watching the V8's on Sunday and in the "on closser inspectio" or what ever it is called.. they did a segmant on the racing fuel cell....

Anyway.. their fuel cell is full of foam... so Why cannot this be added to our fuel tanks to stop them from sloshing around?
I would think that where the float bolts onto the top of the tank that there would be a fairly large inspection hole under it...

If you rolled up a large wad of hte foam .. you could maybe insert it in there and then insert your arm and move it around as much as possiable to get it out of the way... Repeat until it is pretty much full.... except for a spot for the float... Id maybe suggest a "U" shaped section or an "O" section for wher the float goeas.. so the foam doesnt foul the sensor.


Yet Another idea from TBuTcher :D
Im so full of them :lol:

Haydn

i dont think that is a very good idea,
If you really are having fuel pickup problems, i suggest that you get a surge tank, this is made specifically for this sort of problem,

I think that the foam may not react well with the petrol sending bits and pieces down the fuel line and clogging the filter! as well as reducing the capacity of the tank,

us in out magna's dont have a set distance of (25 laps,) or what not, the better mileage we can get, the better off we'll be, i assume,

Not flaming hayden, but i think there may be a reason why they dont do that, and i also assume that race V8's get new filters, oil petrol air, every race / day at a meet!

(as i said again, This can all be avoided by filling your tank more regularly, and keep it above 1/2. instead of below??? TMO anyways

WE do have pre made surge tanks and high pressure fuel pumps that is no problem but it can get messy in the car with plumbing and wiring.

IT is not normally necessary - how many km has your car done. You cuold have a dicky fuel pump or some other problem.

According to the Segment on the V8's ... Each racing fuel cell as a date on it and is stamped for a 5 year period.
It is not changed every race meet.
The foam that they use is some sort of foam like one used in a fish filter, (it doesnot deteriate with petrol)..... large open holes.. it uses about 2-5% of the volume.
Again this was aimed at people who "like" to try different things...
It may be found that the price of the foam is so high that it isnt worth it... but that is for them to find out.

Haydn

i only have the problem when the tank is below 1/4 level

one tank last me a week and i like to refill on the cheap day (every wed)

thus i would like the surge tank

megatron, you have the exact problem i have, i fill up when it happends, it's better then waiting for the reserve light to come on,

Hayden, sorry i wasn't having a go!, i didn't watch the thing on tv, but i wasn't impling that the fuel cell be changed every race meet, but the filters and things probably would be?

When i was doing autokhana - i got hell bad fuel surge and it started between a 1/4 tank and 1/2 a tank - so i was pretty pissed off!!

but then again - you don't drive your car on the road as hard as i was on the track - so that could explain y it takes less fuel for the surge on the road!!

I have taken it down to the fuel light a few times - and normal driving does not tend to creat fuel surge.

Manual

driving differntly on track to road you better ask VRX Twin Turbo and Mischef about that

Well it does seem that when driving the vehicle in non standard manners below 1/2 tank does seem to have a fuel surge problem.

Unfortunatly to rectify this woudl involve some fairly major work to fit up a surge tank and other work in the engine compartment.

The alternative is to maybe look at us making up a modification that fits into the petrol tank to reduce swirling as well as a higher pressure / volume fuel pump with greater capacity to help overcome those little hiccups - may make it worse or better but I guess i will find out soon myself when I start doing autokana's in the TT magna and work it out from there.

Fuel surge in N/A car - pain in butt :(

Fuel Surge in TT Turbo magna - broken motor :evil:

Fuel Surge in TT Turbo magna - broken motor :evil:

Actually wouldn't it be : Fuel Surge in TT Magna = Brokem Engine 2??

haha

Manual

hehehe....smartarse ay :D

You will pay for that one Manuel - since I have moved to the Mogwa hunting party I am going to have a gun specially aimed at yourself for a while (At least until I start getting shot by someone else anyway)

:badgrin:

Hahahaha, now you've got it comming malc.

Oh well i think us AMC boys will have to defend our names... BRING IT ON! We can let manual be our human sheild :D

Well in that case i want two guns!! 1 for each hand - if i am going down i am taking as many of them as i can!!! Mwuhahaha - Matrix style guns all over body haa!!!

Hmm - wet could be interesting!!

Manual

hey david,

Have you ever had the thought about a 'drop tank' you know, simular to the toranas and supercars.??

cos at 200km hour/ i sure could do with a extra 80lt of fuel to get me that lil bit further :badgrin: :badgrin:

perhaps cut out the spare tyre bay, and mount a custom drop tank??

DOn't really need a drop tank as remember those were back in teh carbuerttor days and without the sophisticated fuel pump that we have access to these days.

Heck I get the shivers every time I filled up the magna from moving up from a Cordia 40l tank to the 60l tank on a magna. Don't dare go bigger - it woudl mean it cost me more to fill it up every time. :cry:

Ignoring the fact I woudl go further it woudl also decrease my performance - weight does not equal speed and my aim is to keep the car as light as possible to have some very fast quarter mile times.

As for Manuel - I didn't tell anyone but I am doing a secret deal with the paintball place - they give everyone else single shot guns and I get a full automatic with all the paintballs i can shoot - and I get two of them.

Well okay dreaming maybe but it was nice for a second.

Ok dave - you scared me for a second - but a second only !! haha

As for th edrop tanks - if you fill up more than 100L at a time you get bulk discount which I think is a discount of about 10c per L??

That was from my days of driving 4WD's with Long Range Fuel Tanks!!

I spent alot of money in a diesel landcruiser one day!! But the trip was worth it!!

Manual

fair comment Dave.

but i know you guys look for the quickest time from pont A to B. but what im looking for is the ultimate time from A to B *Knowing* that ill get there from one tank of fuel :lol: :lol:

it would be my dream one day to travel non stop from Alice to Darwin (1516km) on one tank of fuel at 200km/hour..

mmmmmm.. 5 hours of non stop thrills ..... 8)

oh, by the way, i do realise that a droptank wont get me 1500km either.. lol..

mmm.. perhaps a 80 lt tank with the standard 70lt tank would get me from alice to adelaide on one tank? 1700km? traveling at 110??

it would be my dream one day to travel non stop from Alice to Darwin (1516km) on one tank of fuel at 200km/hour..

mmmmmm.. 5 hours of non stop thrills ..... 8)

Umm - it has been a while since I did maths at school - but even this don't add up!!

5 hours at 200km.h is only 1000km - 1500 km/s in 5 hours is more like 300km/h!! (don't think the magna is quite at that level yet!!)

Especially a 3L :badgrin: jk/s

Manual

ok, well 7.5 hours.. hehe..

[quote:718f773cc5]Especially a 3L :badgrin: jk/s [/quote:718f773cc5]

you better watch your self manual, or you will be walking your arse round SA on the Magna meet :badgrin: :badgrin:

you better watch your self manual, or you will be walking your arse round SA on the Magna meet :badgrin: :badgrin:

Couldn't be any slower :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

j/ks - mate i can't wait to check out the mighty GBM!!

Manual

[quote:72e23e8f5c="Gold BOOYA Magna"]you better watch your self manual, or you will be walking your arse round SA on the Magna meet :badgrin: :badgrin:

Couldn't be any slower :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

j/ks - mate i can't wait to check out the mighty GBM!!

Manual[/quote:72e23e8f5c]

im sure we could find a nice seat in say another vrx. im looking forward to at least cruising to victa :badgrin:

Well I will be the one with the camera doing all the video work - and i spose to get video footage of booya i will need to play passenger in at least one other car!! haha - and interviews as well with all the drivers would be cool!!

Manual

Well I will be the one with the camera doing all the video work - and i spose to get video footage of booya i will need to play passenger in at least one other car!! haha - and interviews as well with all the drivers would be cool!!

Manual

sounds like Manual's the self confessed magna **** !!
all in favour say eye....

aw what, im not even allowed to say ****... what a bitch! who the **** came up with that!!! stupid *******s!

Oh well maybe we can say the manual just gets around a lot then!! :badgrin:

Hehe - eye!!!

Manual

Ok, I did not bother reading everypost here however I though I could shed some light on this post.
To begin with most EFI cars have what is called a swirl pot in the tank, a small area designed to supply fuel when there is a low tank of fuel and you are conering.
I would not be bothered abot the injectors running out so much than your fuel pump as there have been cases of fuel pumps sparking internally and exploding when running dry, it is rare though. In general you will just damage the fuel pump.
As for surge tanks, be acreful as the internal fuel pump in the tank is a proper high pressure efi pump and not a hi volume lift pump. This would have to be changed and a std efi pump then fitted after the surge tank (pref behind to allow gravity feeding)
If you are getting fuel smells in the car do not drive it as the tank should be completley sealed. In general you would ahve an input near the top of the tank, fuel return near the top of the tank, a return to the tank right at the top and the outlet at the bottom. If I knew what I was doing with graphics programs I could draw one but I don't LOL
In general what 2much said several posts ago, it is better to keep atleast 1/4 tank, this way you will also not pick up the crap in the tank.

yeah about that tank.... wasnt this a known problem by MMAL and they had to redesign the tank for the Ralliart?!?!? i'm positive that they had some press coverage about that!!.. went something like they made a test tank with a perspex cover.... and a dude sat on top of it and watched as they burned around a test track....

One type of foam used in the tanks was Meracell foam. It's been around for a loong time, HDT used it in the late '70s for their A9X race cars. It eliminated just about all their fuel surge problems (mind you they had big-ass drop tanks too). Meracell foam is friggin' expensive though, that's why it's not used more often!

As for drop tanks, unless it has baffles or something similar you will suffer huge amounts of surge. One benefit from using them is that you have the weight lower to the ground but when full you will find it heaps easier to spin out (like driving a Porsche @ high speed into a corner then lifting off throttle... bye bye, round you go arse backwards off the road!).

Below is a pic of the HDT A9X race cars with the drop tanks fitted. You can't see it very well but the tanks actually have 2 x 45 degree bends at the edges and not 1 x 90 degree bend. This prevents the tank from leaking by spreading the stress out over a larger area.