Dont have much time today so it's going to be a brief description but will post up a more elaborate one in a week or so.
As most of you would know I got the first RPW intake manifold fitted yesterday and WOW big difference. The gains seen though would have been affected by the dyno tune i had as well as i have added several mods since my last dyno tune.
But in short over my last dyno result gained around 20-25hp atw over the entire rev range and approx 20% increase in torque over the entire rev range. With a peak power now just under 190hp atw. Damn quick now i must say, off the mark damn it throws u back in your seat quick aggressively (remember its an auto too). Even Dave from RPW commented on the low down torque of my car, possides forced induction applications could be the fastest magna he has worked on now which is great. Will update later

good effort mate, get us some pics yeah? any pics of the thing before it was installed and during installation would be good too if you have any.

this is something i may be mildly interested in further down the track...

that is awesome, good **** i have a feeling they don't make these for second gen,
get down the quarter and show us some pics, good work

Sounds good, what else did you add to get the extra 20-25hp? And pics too please!

Welcome back Dave :)

I'm amazed at those figures, I never knew that you could get that much difference in just the manifold design! Although I wonder whether there is the same amount of increased performance on a 6G74

Welcome back Dave :)

I'm amazed at those figures, I never knew that you could get that much difference in just the manifold design! Although I wonder whether there is the same amount of increased performance on a 6G74
He has a 3.5l engine. I'd love to see it in action on a SOHC 3.0l.

My bad. The 'before torque' figures didn't look like the 3.5's at all, and this is on a hub-based dyno as well.

dave and what sort of money are these manifolds going to set us back ????

hey the RPW dude is back :) good to see you back mate!

i know this is a little off topic but could you please start a thread about those superchargers you where developing?? PLEEEEEAAAAAASE!! really interested to know where you fellahs where up to

hello mr dave from rpw,
names aj and i was wondering what the chances are of you developing this to suit a 2nd gen??? say i posted over my manifold??? i will have a spare hopefully soon. I already have headers (+exhaust) and t/b and pod.
Thanks

So how long untill we can start buying these?

(A) Single plenum manifold with stock type internal runners $935.00 incl GST
(B) Single plenum manifold with internal 45mm ram tubes $1100.00 incl GST
What TB arrangement did you use, Dave?

Hi Dave.. good to have you back on AM.. now I don't have to keep popping over to MOGWA to ask you questions ;) lol

These new manifolds.. forgetting about the ram tubes for a minute, can you tell us what you've done to these babies? Is it more than just a larger volume plennum? Fair enough if it's secret squirrel stuff, but otherwise it'd be good to know where the power comes from.

I'm impressed :shock:

On the dyno figures you gave there was a minimum increase in hp of 12.2% and a maximum of 24.2% !!

Here, I've worked them out.....

HP Before/After Tq Before/After ---HP increase ----Tq increase
2500 66hp/82hp 185nm/225nm ----24.2% ---------21.6%
3000 82hp/92hp 188nm/220nm ----12.2% ---------17%
4000 120hp/145hp 212nm/253nm - 20.8% ---------19.3%
4200 135hp/155hp 215nm/260nm - 14.8% ---------20.9%
5000 158hp/180hp 205nm/250nm - 13.9% ---------21.95%
5400 158hp/186hp 195nm/243nm - 17.7% ---------24.6%


Now I know it doesn't work quite like this, but based on these percentages that would conservatively make a Ralliart around 211Kw and a VRX/Sport around 194Kw !! (based on a 17.7% increase at 5400rpm)

How much of this gain do you think could be attributed to the EGR though?

Dave WE NEED PICS lol

Is this the same design as I saw on the black ralliart that was at speedworks while my greddy was being tuned? Pricing appears very reasonable with expected power gains so if you can get us some pics i'll place an order.

How is driveability / idle affected?

Blake.

ReallyArt: Cheers for working that out hey. As you can see down low the increase was quite huge, that initial take off where the torque kicks in really throws you back in the seat now, i love that feeling. What you muct remember with those numbers as well is that I have had CAI, 70mm oversiezed throttle body and full mendrel bent exhaust fitted (with high flow cat and muffler) fitted since my last dyno tune. So the 158hp atw was achieved with the mods (minus the mainfold of course) but it was un-tuned. So now that everything has been tuned together, some of the gains would be from the other mods. Saying that the results were still very spectacular to say the least and just imagine if my car was manual well yeah. Now all i need to do is go to the drags and join the 14sec AMC club (with an auto).

Oh didnt see your post Blake.
idle and drivabilty is still extremely smooth- i would imagine this is largely because the car could be tuned and hey u have a greddy too so no problems there.

awesome im definatly down for one, it has to be relatively smooth to drive as I use my car daily but a retune with the greddy should iron out the majority of the roughness

mr_mbquart who did your tuning with the new intake? AJ from Speedworks?

i wasnt there when it was done but i believe it was speedworks, they dyno tuned the car the first time when the greddy was fitted and the dyno sheet i have has definately been done with the same program opposed to other dyno sheets i have from other places.

your so going to have to come to the next cruise so I can check it out :D

In fact the first new design of that "Six Pack" will be going onto the TT magna to try and further improve it. That 10.99 time is something i am seriously thinking about. :badgrin:

is this what your talking about?

http://www.rpw.com.au/Photos/Qaud%20Pictures/USA%20V6/6_pack_4.jpg

cos thats pure porn

do you have any more pics of this? in particular a picture of one fitted to a car and maybe a pic of the carbon fibre box you put over it mentioned in the website??

So, your six-pack has ram tubes, and you're going to fit that to the TT. Aren't there some considerations with ram tubes when used with forced induction?

No the new design is radically different

To explain it roughly its like this

on teh top of the stock lower manifold you have the six runners in a straight line

We will like a V8 touring car make six ram tubes that cross over one another like this

XYXYXY

Where the X runner goes from front to rear of car and teh Y runner goes from rear to front of the car

There is a large base underneath this and then we manafacture a top hat which encloses them all into a large housing. From there we then fit on the front one of the new twin 58mm Edlebrook / NOS throttle bodies so you have the benefits of an individual runner system, but a large plenum chamber with a constant vacuem pressure setup whcih means esier tuning and more responsive throttle setup and this way you have a better setup for air cleaners etc.

Very hard to understand till you see it but internally you woudl see this look on a much larger plenum chamber with six ram tubes crossing over one another.

so basically its going to be 6 individual trumpets very similar to what they have on V8supercars and the like yeh? sounds awesome! make the trumpets out of carbon fibre and you will dead set have a peice of automotive art!

picsorban :D

Dave,

How will these ram tubes affect air distribution between cylinders? As im going to running Nitrous Oxide I need to ensure that these ram tubes will ensure even distribution amoung all cylinders so i dont have any leaning out / uneven distribution problems.

Blake.

Dammit, another thing to add to my shopping list.. :doubt:

i just placed my order :cool:

Well then im guessing u will see the 13s sooner then TZABOY. Cant wait to see the results for a manual ralliart.

Also how is fuel economy affected by the new intake system, better-worse-same.

Tom

Well then im guessing u will see the 13s sooner then TZABOY.
Maybe not..


i just placed my order :cool:

huh :nuts:

Well then im guessing u will see the 13s sooner then, TZABOY.
this make more sence for u boys>

you guys are confusing THEN with THAN.....

turn off the comps and read some books!!

you guys are confusing THEN with THAN.....

turn off the comps and read some books!!
haha, well. Actually I'm getting so used to seeing people use 'then' when they mean 'than,' that I read it as 'than' instead of 'then.' :nuts:

:stoopid: but still want to know more about this manifold, any pics apart from the original prototype? Especially of the ram tubes?

was wondering how this would effect fuel economy..

Just when I thought there is nothing else to spend my money on..... sigh. Not cheap, but when considering gain/dollar - hmmmmm...... :cool:

this hasnt been mentioned yet so ill ask ...

do u need an after market ecu/piggyback to have this part installed and running ? i know u would get more out of it if u didnt have the stock ecu ... but is it worth it with the stocker? .... its just i wanna get most of my work done to it and then fit the greddy and get it tuned once not 5 thousand times for every mod

this hasnt been mentioned yet so ill ask ...

do u need an after market ecu/piggyback to have this part installed and running ? i know u would get more out of it if u didnt have the stock ecu ... but is it worth it with the stocker? .... its just i wanna get most of my work done to it and then fit the greddy and get it tuned once not 5 thousand times for every mod

what he said!

:stoopid:

Price performance looks very good, hmmmmmm, got me thinking, what can I sell to buy it??? :badgrin:

with the single throttle body version of the intake manifold i believe you dont need a piggy back ecu but if u want to run the twin throttle body setup then you do.

ANY modification to the engine will be best utilised by fine tuning it to function at it's peak levels using modified ECU software (BMW etc) or a piggyback ECU.

You could easily run Twin 65mm TB's with the stock ECU, but how much better will it go when you tune it correctly. The OEC ECU has a ceiling that will be reached depending upon the mod undertaken. Twin 65mm TB's will do that.

However, it is most likely that the Holley or Edelbrock units supplied by say RPW, CAPA etc, don't actually bolt straight upto the Magna's ISC, TCL, Cruise and TPS wiring harnesses or provide the imput that the ECU is expecting to receive. Therefore the piggyback ECU is needed to provide that 'electrical' handshake so they get on just fine. The added benefit is that this can be tuned to ensure optimum results are obtained from the mods and most importantly:

THAT YOUR HARD EARNED DOSH IS ALLOWED TO PRODUCE THE RESULTS YOU WERE EXPECTING FROM THE MODS.

Anyone know if it's easy and worthwhile going from the MAF to a MAP?

So Dave, when can we have one?!

i was planning on getting the inlet manifold and TB all in one ......ur saying that i need a piggy back to run both year? .... dammit!

i was planning on getting the inlet manifold and TB all in one ......ur saying that i need a piggy back to run both year? .... dammit!

nah only if your going with the ram tubes... single TB without ram tubes doesnt need piggy back from what i can understand

ok sorry can someone explauin what ram tubes are? ...... so i can still have the RPW inlet manifold and the 80mm TB and not run a piggy back?

You can run the single throttle body without the ram tubes on a standard ECU but you are not going to gain much by it.

The inlet manifolds seem to be aimed at the guys who are running aftermarket computer/piggybacks who are going to reap the benefits.

Can anyone update the guys without computers on the potential gains of the single TB manifolds with no ram tubes as they have not been spoken about in details at this stage

yeah... im planning on getting a piggy back down the track but wanna get most of the work done b4 it gets tuned .... so i get it tuned say once or twice ... as opposed to everytime i have a new mod

If you fit a piggyback that other ppl have, you may be able to get a map for it that is 'good enough' for your car. No dyno time. Then add your serious mods, and tune then.

what r ram tubes ?


so sorry to bring it up again it would be fine to have the 80mm TB and inlet manifold fitted without piggy back ..... * this would only be temporary of cousr

I gather the ramtube inserts are placed btwn the inlet manifold and the lower inlet manifold or are they inserted higher up the runner to the edge of the plenum?

Would it be better to run a runner that was completely tapered? Tough to do, just taper up to the 90deg and keep that inlet pipe untapered.

Thoughts?

You said earlier that one offs were expensive, what if later down the track the 2nd gen 3.0l owners wanted to get a batch made. would we get the reduced price?

Few Questions.

would they all have to be of the same type? I.e if 3 wanted ram air tubes and 2 wanted non ram would that affect prices?

would the desired throttle body setups affect the deal too?

are the throttle body prices any different? I.e if i wanted the twin 52mm edelbrocks would it be the same price as the throttles for the 3rd gens?

is there 6 of those ram tubes??

is there 6 of those ram tubes??

Yes, one for each intake runner and hance cylinder :D

Ok - i haven't read the whole damned post - cos 8 pages is crazy - but i did read the first 3 and nothing was mentioned of flow benches and actual testing of these manifolds.

What I want to know - for the sake of others - where are the flow tests showing that you are getting the same air to all the cylinders at all rev ranges evenly??

I know the cost of Jap Spec Manifolds for Imports is a couple of grand, but they have flow sheets per charge pipe to show that its all legit??

I am hoping these have been tested to make sure this is ok??

As for flow benching - at this stage I do not see that it is necessary to get them flow tested at this time. Now of course If I had a million dollars to spend on advertising and publicity like the japanese companies - well that woudl be a different story.

No need for a flow bench. Just measuer A/F ratios at each cylinder, should be a close enough indicator if air being evenlly distributed.

From the pics, they look no more effiecnt in evening cylinder fill as the stock units, although obviouslly they are a great improvment in performance over stock :P

I can go on more techincal detail if yuo want.......

Actually, I'd be interested in any detail you're willing to provide, just because it's really interesting and useful.

i purchased my manifold just on the performance increase, but after reading all of that it just seals the deal!
Dave called me this afternoon advising me my manifold is ready so i should have it on my car and tuned within a week or so.

Bring on that 13 second pass!

i purchased my manifold just on the performance increase, but after reading all of that it just seals the deal!
Dave called me this afternoon advising me my manifold is ready so i should have it on my car and tuned within a week or so.

Bring on that 13 second pass!

Awesome. Can't wait to see how much more you get out of this mod on your car. I hope you're going to get a re-tune done before you hit the strip for the first time?

Dave, any chance of a rough pricing for differant models

ie - with with out ram tubes
twin TB verses Single
Do you have to purchase throttle bodies on top of this, or are they included, if you do can you supply and for how much. just rough pricing is fine

Awesome. Can't wait to see how much more you get out of this mod on your car. I hope you're going to get a re-tune done before you hit the strip for the first time?
I'll install the mods on a sunday arvo, and get the re-tune on the following monday. It'll be all installed and tuned within 2 weeks, pending my new elec problem :rant:

If you put the manifold side by side next to the stock one you will notice several things

(A) The length of our new manifold is longer than the stock one and as such provides more air volume in storage and flow to the rear cylinders

(B) The plenum chamber is also much larger in volume and the width between the ram tube and the end of the plenum chamber in distance is now also further away

(C) The use of ram tubes equalises the air flow into each cylinder as well the final rear runner gets a full 270 degree surface of ram tube where as all teh other runners get only a 180 of full lip due to sharing each side with the one next to it. This means that the most rear and the very front runners are able to access the air easier than the middle ones as they are the two that suffer the most.

(D) The neck between the throttle body and the plenum chamber is slightly longer as well as opens on a taper so that the front cylinder is not starved of air by numbers two and three which can suck the air easier than number one as the air normally goes straight past it creating a low vacuem area as numbers 2 & 3 are able to pull the air in harder cause normally number one runner has to get the air to turn close to 90 degres V around 75 degrees etc.

I think there are a few more things but everyone can see the point - we looked at these manifolds very carefully in an attempt to try and maximise air flow.
The reasons why ram tubes work so well is there bell mouthed design is able to suck, swirl and create a vortex of air that enables for the same area, a greater volume of air to be pulled down the runner. In essance its more efficient in teh way it pulls teh air down. Of course the great swirling air down the runners means better distribution of air when mixed with fuel.

I can go on more techincal detail if yuo want.......

NICE :D ,

Hope this settles the vortex/swirling air debate about intakes :badgrin:

Hi, i havent read all of this thead, but you mentioned that you can do manifolds for 4 pots, does thit include gen 2? if so what gains could be expected and how much would it cost, as id love to have a bloody quick nat-atmo 4 pot.

Yeeah, I agree with M here. I have no doubts about the performance gains with this device, but when ever precision work is done to heads etc, a flow bench is used to maximise the results. This is to minimise the un-even results as an end product. Meaning: once such manifold is installed, it only flows as good as what the rest of the intake manifolds and valves flow - I doubt they are 100% perfect from the factory in our cars here. But saying this - are the std plenums any better....?
Yee, yee - "car manufacturers spend millions blaa blaa". And if one believes that, then Santa Claus is real too! If millions was spent on maximising the performance of a Magna donk, why does it only produce 155 odd kW? Nissan Z 350 is some 220 kW - cos it has been properly designed. And let's not start with apples an other pieces of fruit... :) u know what I mean. I hope.

Waiting for TZBoy's results now.... :cool:


Where are the flow tests showing that you are getting the same air to all the cylinders at all rev ranges evenly??
I am hoping these have been tested to make sure this is ok??

I'll install the mods on a sunday arvo, and get the re-tune on the following monday. It'll be all installed and tuned within 2 weeks, pending my new elec problem :rant:

Did you get to do this?

Be psychotic with extrude honed runners and upper & lower manifold. Get the runner flow evened out to within 2-4cft of each other. As well as pickup 30% more air flow per runner.

Did you get to do this?
yeah it's on, not tuned properly yet

Let us know what you run at the track after you do this little mod. Can't believe we'll have a N/A Magna without any internal work running 13s.

Does NOS class as N/A..?? lol
of course it does fool.... show me the forced induction to make it otherwise....

holy **** jase, sounds good, geuss you can't give it a boot full yet with it untuned?? well into the 13's i bet...gotta hurry up and get my chip so i can get this next.

Just a question is the set up different in terms of throttle bodies. I want to get dual throttle bodies later but i'm wondering if it bolts up the same to my oversized one?? Or do i have to buy new manifold plus dual t/b at the same time

of course it does fool.... show me the forced induction to make it otherwise....
i belive its chemical induction / falls under forced induction - your forcing chemicals to produce excessive HP.

So do you have any plans on designing one for the 4 cylinder?

of course it does fool.... show me the forced induction to make it otherwise....

Ben is right, and I sense EGO was being sarcastic.......... for the benefit of anyone else confused by this concept:

from the andra website www.andra.com.au:


Competition Eliminator is a bracket of twenty classes catering for “open wheel” vehicles (Dragster, Funny Car and Altered), and supercharged sedan type vehicles running on the ANDRA Class Index handicap system. The double letter prefix denotes supercharging is permitted. This may be in the form of a mechanical supercharger or turbocharger, or the addition of nitrous oxide, which is considered to be chemical supercharging. Nitro-methane fuel is not permitted. Vehicles from Top Doorslammer and Top Alcohol may compete in Competition Eliminator where their own brackets are not posted.

The same definition of supercharging applies to all ANDRA classes.

Sorry didn't know it was running on nitrous. What kind of shot and system?

Well????? :rant:


yeah it's on, not tuned properly yet

hello every..

i'm kinda new here, sorry for digin up the old post but i have a question about the piggy-back tune and this item... lets say i just bought the:-

Intake manifold
satge 2 cams and springs
over-sized tb

Could i be able to tuned it with an Apexi S-AFC ll or only the greddy E ?

I won't say you can't tune i ton the apexi unit, you could do a very rough tune on it.

BUt ultimatly only the greddy or equivelent piggy back system woudl allow you to fine tune the tunign enough to ensure you get the right fuel economy, power and play with the ignition timing to get the best results from teh installation of those products.

yeah it's on, not tuned properly yet

Did you ever get it tuned and get results? Im sure we are all interested :shock:

Whazzappening with this stuff? Seems like Mr MBQuart is the only one with positive feedback. TeezaDude has disappeared with this. Is this a RPW myth? We need Myth Busters on this case!


Did you ever get it tuned and get results? Im sure we are all interested :shock:

We have since fitted another one of these up in Perth on an Auto magna stock exhaust which picked up some very nice gains, although we have found that due to the increased fuel requiremetns these vehicles will need a rising rate FPR unit to be used in conjunction to eliminate flat spots on initial acceleration.

Our test car already had one of these but when we fitted the manifold to a car that didn't it became evident that it needed one (Due to the larger air volume held in reserve within the larger plenum chamber).

Also sent another 2 to the eastern states but they are not AMC members to my knowledge so I don't know whether they will report back to any one there with there results.

We have since fitted another one of these up in Perth on an Auto magna stock exhaust which picked up some very nice gains, although we have found that due to the increased fuel requiremetns these vehicles will need a rising rate FPR unit to be used in conjunction to eliminate flat spots on initial acceleration.

Our test car already had one of these but when we fitted the manifold to a car that didn't it became evident that it needed one (Due to the larger air volume held in reserve within the larger plenum chamber).

Also sent another 2 to the eastern states but they are not AMC members to my knowledge so I don't know whether they will report back to any one there with there results.



Would this be the same for the Ralliarts as well. Presumably they use the same regulators as standard?


.

Yes the regulators are all the same across the board on the magna.

Does unichip/greddy etc get around this?

No the greddy / unichip can't do this because they don't have access to altering the "Acceelrator Pump" settings which feeds an extra rich squirt of fuel momentarily to overcome flat spots. This is what a rising rate FPR unit allows us to do being that we can momentarily feed extra fuel and then go back to a fixed fuel curve which the compuatr can adjust for.

have the intake manifold fitted on my car. Showed an increase in torque and power up midrange. No top end gains though due to throttle body not being able to flow enough air. Problem will be solved in next few weeks.

']have the intake manifold fitted on my car. Showed an increase in torque and power up midrange. No top end gains though due to throttle body not being able to flow enough air. Problem will be solved in next few weeks.
don't suppose you've got the new dyno graph handy?

nah sorry not one of car with inlet manifold.

']have the intake manifold fitted on my car. Showed an increase in torque and power up midrange. No top end gains though due to throttle body not being able to flow enough air. Problem will be solved in next few weeks.
Sounds like it's doing exactly what it's meant to do.

What the Magna really needs is a longer stroke and 9.7:1 compression on 91ULP to get the BIG low torque the Falcons enjoy from the Factory. :(

']have the intake manifold fitted on my car. Showed an increase in torque and power up midrange. No top end gains though due to throttle body not being able to flow enough air. Problem will be solved in next few weeks.


How does it sound?

so if im goin turbo i should order the non ram tubes ?
if the 6pack isnt goin too be much longer should i wait for this ?

so if im goin turbo i should order the non ram tubes ?
if the 6pack isnt goin too be much longer should i wait for this ?

Impression I got was that there is no gain to be had out of ram tubes if the air going in is under pressure anyway (ie: turbo / supercharged) - and because the ram tubes add about $100 or so to the price, it's money you might as well spend elsewhere (like $100 goes along way in a turbo install).

Having said that - I don't understand enough about the physics of it to say for sure that ram tubes wouldn't be detrimental in a forced induction application. I'm about to finalise an order with Anthony for the ram tube model - even though I haven't ruled out going F/I in the future.

[QUOTE=Black Beard]Impression I got was that there is no gain to be had out of ram tubes if the air going in is under pressure anyway.[QUOTE]

What he said. Will actually IMPEDE airflow under forced induction.

The trumpetted manifold is aimed at increasing air velocity thru the runner and hence faster air will allow more air to enter the cylinder during the valve is actually opened. Will improve low/mid rpm probably hurt higher rpm - but how often are you really driving at 5000rpm anyway esp with fuel prices atm!

so say if u could run the two throttle bodies at either end of the plenum, through a complete aftermarket ecu
would a twin throttle bodie on each end be even better ?

so say if u could run the two throttle bodies at either end of the plenum, through a complete aftermarket ecu
would a twin throttle bodie on each end be even better ?
I have one factory T/B on each end of my new plenum (though you probably already knew that..). There's no such thing as a flow restriction with two throttle bodies lol Especially if you go full after market and don't need to route both inlets through the MAF sensor. Though I imagine this would work best in a twin turbo configuration, otherwise again a single point of entry might be a bottle neck.

You'd have to anticipate there wouldn't be any problem with not filling each runner evenly too.

[QUOTE=cthulhu]I have one factory T/B on each end of my new plenum (though you probably already knew that..).

Wicked! How does it go with this setup. I recall Booya being very impressed. I imagine response is awesome. How about torque? Any soft spots in the rev range? Did you retain the MAS or run twin MAS'?

I have one factory T/B on each end of my new plenum (though you probably already knew that..).
Wicked! How does it go with this setup. I recall Booya being very impressed. I imagine response is awesome. How about torque? Any soft spots in the rev range? Did you retain the MAS or run twin MAS'?
See thread here about mods: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23237

I should get the car back over the weekend so I'll let you know how it goes, but from what Dallas has said throttle response is razor sharp, and the dyno power curve (see link) looks pretty fat.

If i was to get this INtake manifold fitted ($850 version), along with Extractors at the same time, should i be expecting much of a gain ?
or would my money be spent better off elsewhere ?

i have Tj sports, with cai and magnaflow muffler.


if i went with this setup, should i change anything else, will i expect fuel problems, idle problems ?


also, to the guys that had it fitted, and tuned,
how would i go about getting it tuned, as i have stock ecu ?


any help appreciated.

cheers
nath

If i was to get this INtake manifold fitted ($850 version), along with Extractors at the same time, should i be expecting much of a gain ?
or would my money be spent better off elsewhere ?

i have Tj sports, with cai and magnaflow muffler.


if i went with this setup, should i change anything else, will i expect fuel problems, idle problems ?


also, to the guys that had it fitted, and tuned,
how would i go about getting it tuned, as i have stock ecu ?


any help appreciated.

cheers
nath

Your car can only be 'tuned' to take advantage of any Mod with the help of a Piggyback ECU product such as a unichip, GReddy, Haltech etc. Other than that - your stock ECU will probably only adjust your fuel map slightly based on the amount of air passing thru the MAF sensor.

I would expect you would notice an improvement in torque from upgrading extractors plus plennum chamber, but not nessecarily peak power.

RPW claim that a Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator will help unlock the potenial of this mod - especially if no Piggyback ECU is fitted, they generally recomend these units to all cars which have had moderate 'breathing' mods. At very least I would personally recommend getting the Plennum and T/B insulating spacers in addition which will also help make the most of your existing CAI.

hhmmmm
thanks for the reply !
i was getting the throttle body lip machined out this comming weeekend to help it abit.
spacers were on the list aswel !


im not convinced that my $1500 will be well spent on these 2 mods.

maybe ill stick to apexi safc2, extractors and cams.

hhmmmm
thanks for the reply !
i was getting the throttle body lip machined out this comming weeekend to help it abit.
spacers were on the list aswel !


im not convinced that my $1500 will be well spent on these 2 mods.

maybe ill stick to apexi safc2, extractors and cams.

It really depends what you're going for - I can't tell you what the right or wrong mods are, or what the right or wrong order to get them will be. I can tell you however the effectiveness of every mod will depend on what other mods accompany it.

If you're talking bang for your buck - and you can get an ECU, extractors and cams for the same price as a plennum and extractors (which seems unlikely to me - but I don't know your circumstances); and your more interested in the peak kW figure than the low down torque - then go the ECU + Cams option.

Personally, I'm putting RPW plennum w/ ram tubes, thermal spacers, CAI, full exhaust, FPR and GReddy on first, followed then by cams, headwork, bottom end and gearbox dependant on whether or not I decide I still want to go for Aspirated power or F/I power. My theory being that the list of mods above will help make the absolute most out of the cams/head work I eventually get done.

At the end of the day it comes down to how many $$$$ you are willing to spend and what you want to achieve.

Clarification:

Any bend slows air flow. Mandrel bend or not. Been down a slippery dip? What about a twisty one? Which was faster.

OK point 2:

Mounting the 2nd TB on the end of the plenum is a handy location: minimal fabrication to mount, linkages can be joined easily to sycronise opening.

The real problem with the Magna plenum is that cylinders 1 & 2 have to compete with the other four cylinder's runners sucking the air trying to get to their runners. A TB at each end of the plenum does negate this problem but can create unequal distribution of air to 3 & 4. Most people will never notice this problem. Higher performance engines will.

I believe the stock manifold can be inproved simply by installing a vertical baffle after the TB inside the plenum to permit more air to reach cylinders 1-3 with out disturbance from 4-6 drawing air.

Will be testing this theory within the month.

I believe the stock manifold can be inproved simply by installing a vertical baffle after the TB inside the plenum to permit more air to reach cylinders 1-3 with out disturbance from 4-6 drawing air.

Will be testing this theory within the month.

Somthing like what holden did with the 3.8 in the series2 VN? :P

Somthing like what holden did with the 3.8 in the series2 VN? :P
Do you mean the one in the inlet elbow after the TB in the VNs+ ? That's just sad. Typical GM 'development' lol

I meant a wall dividing the first section of the plenum parallel with the plenum barrel in the vertical plane.

Clarification:

Any bend slows air flow. Mandrel bend or not. Been down a slippery dip? What about a twisty one? Which was faster.

OK point 2:

Mounting the 2nd TB on the end of the plenum is a handy location: minimal fabrication to mount, linkages can be joined easily to sycronise opening.

The real problem with the Magna plenum is that cylinders 1 & 2 have to compete with the other four cylinder's runners sucking the air trying to get to their runners. A TB at each end of the plenum does negate this problem but can create unequal distribution of air to 3 & 4. Most people will never notice this problem. Higher performance engines will.

I believe the stock manifold can be inproved simply by installing a vertical baffle after the TB inside the plenum to permit more air to reach cylinders 1-3 with out disturbance from 4-6 drawing air.

Will be testing this theory within the month.


YEP AS HE SAID A MANDREL BEND SYSTEM DOES STILL GIVE A LOSS, do not kid yourself, i have work in the Building services for some time and any bend induces a loss, especially at higher velicities which occur on an inlet. The difference between a mandrel bend system is that the volume of air stays constant through a corner, so no locolised increased velocities, HOWEVER all bend incurr a loss, it's physics and you can not change that, siple, if you wich to have low losses, inserst some turning vanes in the bends, however this is nearly imposible on a round duct.

the pressure loss on a 90 Deg bend will be

Pt=KtPv

And your 90mm bend with 90 deg bend angle has a Kt of .24
a 3.5 liter engine at 6000rpm, has 350 l/s say 175 per throttel body, but worse case 350 l/s

Area of intake =6.36*10-3
Q=.35 m3/s
V=55 m/s

Give a Pv of 1750 Pa. and that is a F00Kload

so Pt = 420Pa. So there you go mate, it DOES make a hudge differance.

Now that pressure is instaintainus only at the time of cylinder stroke, so in reallity the pressure will be 6 times lower. so only 70 Pa.

Ok i think you get the point

Ok i think you get the point

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

do you really think anyone gets THAT point???

Thats the funniest thing I've ever read.

you could have just said
Bends are badd......MM'kay

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

do you really think anyone gets THAT point???

Thats the funniest thing I've ever read.

you could have just said


I DID SAY THET BEFORE AND PEOPLE STILL ARGUED IT

I FIGURED THAT PEOPLE OF LESSER MIND MIGHT NEED HELP.


:bowrofl: :bowrofl:

May I add another simple example done on a flow bench:
100 mm pipe with 360 deg bend (yes, full circle) in circumference of 100 cm reduced the flow to similar of 80 mm straight pipe. As in, ~20 % loss.
Sooo, a 90 deg bend would be reducing the flow ruffly a 1/4 of that, eh? Then again, if one 90 bend goes left and the next one right, that might affect the flow too.
Hmmmm....