Hi,
Has anyone installed a centre channel speaker into their Magna's system.

I have a few questions for those that have either looked into doing it or have done it in a Magna:

1.) What size speaker did you use?
2.) Where did you locate/mount it?
3.) How did you connect it up:
-a.) Wired (bridged-strereo)
-b.) Wired (summed-mono)
-c.) DSP/EQ
4.) Amplified or not - How much power?
5.) What other things should be taken into consideration?

I'm considering removing the ash tray & cig lighter portion of the centre console and installing the biggest coaxial speaker that will fit in there...

Thanks,
Chris

Is this for a dolby 5.1 type arrangement? Or just for use with stereo music?

If it's not Dolby it will not be good for imaging/staging as this requires two distinct point sources.

If it is dolby 5.1 you want to be able to high pass this around 100 hz, sound deaden extensively under the dash. Are you willing to hack up ur dash for it?

All this has to be taken into consideration.

Nothings impossible though.

You'll want an amp for this with a dedicated channel. And a 5.1 processor. If you dont have a 5.1 processor you'd be better off upgrading speakers and going the conventional stereo setup.

I think installing it that low will not be very good for staging, generally you want it at eye level, This will make the majority of your sound come from well below here.
It needs to be installed on the dash to work effectively, perhaps you could also make a box for it that can be removed easily when your not watching movies.

Peace

Tim

Staging is pretty well taken care of in the front at the moment using an Eclipse (SC8365 (http://www.eclipse-web.com.au/component/sc8365.html)) 6-1/2" component 3-way speaker system (100 Watt RMS / 300 Watt Peak) powered by a bridged Eclipse (PA5422 (http://www.eclipse-web.com.au/amp/pa5422.html)) 4-ch Amp (4x 85 Watt RMS / 800W Max)

Something just seems to be missing up front in the centre though, but it could just be my imagination I guess. I was thinking it may also help with the difference in distance between the left/right speakers from the driver...

Handy link on this topic:
http://www.termpro.com/articles/center.html

For stereo you don't need a centre channel, in fact it will be really bad for your imaging.

You should be able to get a centre image in the centre of your screen using tweets mounted in the kicks and a bit of tinkering/adjustments. You may be better off thinking about ambient tweeters, or time alignment to help you out here.

I would advise against a centre channel for stereo.

So you disagree with the guy who wrote the above linked article then?

Wayne Harris (http://www.termpro.com/wayne/whbio.html)
Director of Research and Development - Rockford Corporation (Retired)
President and Founder - dB Drag Racing Association

I guess he wouldn't know what he was talking about, what with all that experience and all. hahaha

Didnt read it fully, but the installation and general tech stuff there was sound.

But only necessary for a dolby setup, I disagree using a centre channel for stereo.

It's 15 years old, car audio has come a long way
"Originally appeared in the May/June 1990 issue of Car Stereo Review magazine."

Stereo has only 2 channels, adding another speaker in there that plays both will reduce stereo separation.

:stoopid: Unless integrated from the design stage of a vehicle then centre channel speakers especially for stereo sources can be awful.

I agree the article is old and whilst i'm certainly no expert, having a center channel for the reasons outlined in the article seems to make sense to me. *shrug*

No point arguing though as I don't know enough about this kind of thing to put up any sort of valid arguement, nuff said.

no probs, not arguing...

I should justify my reasoning more.

Say we are trying to replicate a band with the singer in the middle. In a good SQ system you should be able to close your eyes and hear exactly what you would hear if you were there (providing it is recorded well)

Your brain can pinpoint the location of the speaker using your two ears.
It automatically distinguishes the intensity difference between the two ears and the slight delay between one ear and the other, eg: if there is a sound to your right your left ear will hear this louder and will hear it slightly before the right ear.

There are many other factors (refraction around your head etc but I'll keep it simple)

Now with only two point sources (assume a 3way component is one point source) we can replicate everything that the brain would normally process.

We can increase the intensity slightly to the left speaker and we can slightly delay the right speaker. This negates the 'off centre' position of the driver in a car.

So in theory we can replicate having two speakers equidistant from the listener

Once we can do this we can create a 'virtual' centre just by tricking our brain, all of this information should be in the recording itself. Say there is a guitar playing to the left of the stage. We will have a higher instensity of sound coming from the left channel than the right channel, we also have the sound leaving the left channel slightly before the right channel.

If speakers are: in phase, equidistant, and the exact music is played through both (mono)... Instead of hearing two speakers playing music, you should hear all the music coming from a central point in your soundstage.

No music should appear to come from the left or right channels.

Peace

Tim

i was thinking about adding my centre channel (for 5.1) where the factory tweeters were mounted (top dash corners) i guess it wouldn't be perfect centre channel but would be as far forward and require as little modifications as possible

I know it has been done in a 3rd gen b4 properly. One of the guys off CAA did it. And used it for Dolby 5.1.

You need to use the same driver as your fronts though, so can get exxy.

it was t-bro from caa in a gen 3 it sounds so clear

where did he have his mounted? any idea what size those standard holes are? would be awesome if u could fit a 4" coaxial in there but i doubt it

The whole is less then 8cm across (approx 3.2"), I have a factory speaker here in front of me that comes out of those very holes. You might be able to get a 3.5" in there with a bit of luck but I very much doubt a 4" would fit.

it was t-bro from caa in a gen 3 it sounds so clear

Thanks i might try and get in touch with him to find out how he went about it.

where did he have his mounted? any idea what size those standard holes are? would be awesome if u could fit a 4" coaxial in there but i doubt it

I believe T-Bro has his mounted where the ash-tray / cig lighter is like what I want to do, he used a 5-6" driver (2-way) rated down to 50Hz as it needed to be able to go as low as 70-80Hz to be effective as a centre channel apparently.

That said he was also using a proper Dolby processor and 30-band EQ just for the centre channel - hardcore!

i guess thats the other option, my H/U has dolby digital built into it, so thats not problem, already got a centre-out RCA hanging there... just looking at getting it as factory seeming as possible... i might see what small speakers are out there, if not, bye-bye ciggy lighter! (and phone charger!! DAMN!)

I've seen some speakers mounted inside the centre air conditioning vents. You'd probably lose functionality of thoes two air vents on the console. That or ****ty sound when the air is on.. You could re-rout the air though, put in some blockers boosting the other vents. I'm not sure how strong the air con system pumps though.

Have you thought about just mounting some good quality satelite tweeters from the roof, above the rear vision mirror area?
I haven't seen that before. Its feasible I'd say.

I would think that a centre speaker would only benefit the person sitting in the middle of the back seat?

I'm probably going to end up using half a set of Eclipse 5-1/4" 3-way splits for my centre channel at this stage. With the woofer mounted where the ashtray/cig-lighter would otherwise be and the mid&tweeter up on the dash to give similar height as the factory left/right speaker positions.

http://www.eclipse-web.com.au/component/image/sc8355_pic.jpg

Though the Eclipse E502CSP dedicated centre-channel speaker is also an option (probably cheaper) but likely to small in my opinion...

http://m2-shop.com/shop/nv/eclipse/2002/e502csp/e502csp.jpg

Clarion have a centre speaker.

SRK5. Fits into a DIN slot, built in amp with about 5 separate speakers inside. :)