In the last few months, I've seen the price of petrol range between $0.90 and $1.10 per litre, and in the same period, I've noticed that the price of LPG has gone from $0.41 to $0.39 per litre.

Well, I've had enough. The price of petrol is insanely high, so I've got a few quotes on getting LPG on the TS V6 Wagon.

Now, apparently they fit a dual-fuel system, instead of doing a total conversion. They remove the spare wheel, and they've got this funky tank that sits there instead, and they give you a bracket to stand the spare wheel up in the boot.

Is there anything I should know about this process? Any questions I need to ask? The place apparently does all mechanical work as well, so I've got a list of stuff for them to do. Fix squeaky brakes/wheels, inspect/replace valve stem seals, inspect timing chain and advise, flush gearbox fluid/gearbox service, and a full service. I've been told it'll cost about $2450 for the conversion, so anyone got a rough guesstimate on the rest?

Quote from my mechanic who seems to know his sh!t with the astron engine:
"These engines weren't made to run on gas, Say you pay $2k, it would take a year or 2 to make that money back by saving what you would pay if you were running petrol, however, it is highly likely that the engine will develop cracked heads and or exhaust manifolds, which can quickly turn the savings you make into expenses"
He pretty much said the money you save with LPG, you end up paying for with a new head/exhaust manifold.
I would shop around, i reckon you could get a better price, around the $1600-$2000 mark. It's up to you mate :).

I thought it was only the 4 cylinder that was the astron engine in the series 2 magnas?

I thought it was only the 4 cylinder that was the astron engine in the series 2 magnas?
Sorry mate i didn't see you say V6 in the first page (see it now) i just saw you say they inspect your timing chain (V6's have timing belts, not chains :P). That's why i thought you had a 4. Not sure on the V6 magna's, though i have seen a 3rd gen V6 running on gas crack an exhaust manifold hmmmm.

Heh, I stand corrected. Timing Belt :p

I would guess that the third gen you saw with a cracked manifold would have had some other problem, as AFAIK LPG has been a factory option on them.

I'm hoping to get out of it all for no more than $3k. I realise the timing belt and valve stem seals might be a bit exxy, but they don't need to replace the brake pads (maybe just machine the discs).

It's a good car, but it's just got niggling little problems. The v6 that's in it came from a wreckers at some point (that pink writing on the valve covers is a dead giveaway) so I don't know the full history of the car, but it's chewing a bit of oil, so I'm aiming for the valve stem seals to be the main problem.

If you're going to gas you're better off getting a complete conversion and getting the engine totally cleaned out when you do.

Gas runs clean and you'll get worse economy off it if you're running a dual fuel system because petrol is dirty. The petrol side will get the better economy because it's usually a dirty fuel. Gas will suffer.

RE: valve stem seals, a tip I was given is to first try some of the Wynn's Stop Smoke or similar, the ones that say they recondition seals. The problem with the valve stem seals is that they get hard with age, and supposedly this stuff can help soften them up again. Worth a try, $8 or so compared to apparently around $400 to get only the seals replaced on a V6 (***** of a job, apparently).
Seals themselves are only about $30, it's just all the labour involved, have to take off the plenum and throttle etc, compress 12 valve springs...

RE: LPG, how does litre useage compare? ie., is 1litre of LPG the same for mileage as 1litre of petrol?

i have a TR 4cyl sedan with dual fuel, both tanks take about 60-62L to fill from empty and i get 430km from a tank of LPG and about 480km from a tank of petrol.
At current local prices petrol costs $68 a tank and LPG costs $35.
You should be able to get a quality conversion for a lot less than you have been quoted. I would think between $1600 and $2000 would be a fairer price. The other option is to sell your car and buy one with a LPG system already fitted.
If you get the car converted to run straight LPG then the engine can be setup to take advantage of the extra bang in LPG. Meaning, an LPG engine that produces more power on less Litres per km when compared to a similar petrol engine.
The problem with straight gas cars is that you can't get LPG everywhere (especially in rural areas) and if you run out of fuel you need a towtruck instead of a jerry can.
In my local area it is minimum 50km and up to 200km between towns with sites that sell LPG I often run the LPG tank dry and switch to petrol till i can next get LPG.

Anyone got any suggestions on a good place to get it done in sydney? The first place I rang quoted me $2700, and the second was $2450. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they've all raised their prices in order to cash in on the current high price of petrol, and the sudden increased interest in LPG because of it.

Strangely enough, neither of them had any interest in doing a full conversion, they both recomended a dual fuel system. I did ask about a full conversion, and the second guy said that even the modern factory-fitted systems use dual fuel, because the petrol lubricates on startup and then it automatically switches over to gas........

My mate just had his car (not a magna) converted to full LPG running a gas research system.. not only does he get -insane- economy ($10 from blacktown up to leura and back, with heaps left over.. and this is in a 5.8L V8).. but he also got increased torque.. noticeably increased.

Definitely worth going the full conversion. IMO.

Gas research system?

"Gas Research" = brand, makes LPG equipment for conversions on cars. Also do a lot of performance LPG carbies, that sorta thing.

Google is your friend. :)
http://www.gasresearchpc.com.au/

My mate just had his car (not a magna) converted to full LPG running a gas research system.. not only does he get -insane- economy ($10 from blacktown up to leura and back, with heaps left over.. and this is in a 5.8L V8).. but he also got increased torque.. noticeably increased.

Definitely worth going the full conversion. IMO.

Yep thats what I was getting at. Much higher octane in gas, with a full gas system it's tuned for it and it shows.

Hrmmm, this is interesting. One of the guys I spoke to today basically said that with EFI and knock sensors, modern cars don't need specific tuning for gas.

He said the best possible system is one that starts up with petrol (due to cold start temps) and automatically switches over to gas.

FFS, if I had the cash I'd just go buy a bloody new car, with everything factory fitted. :rant:

It'd save alot of hassle.

There are different advantages and disadvantages of running straight gas and dual fuel. You've just gotta work out whats best for you. Gas runs hotter so i assume your engine wont last as long as it will with petrol, and petrol helps lubricate the engine, so running on petrol is advised every now and then. Will be less problems with cracked heads/manifolds with dual fuel (i dont know EXACTLY how true it is, but i have heard from more than one person that the extra heat created by the lpg can lead to cracked heads/manifolds.)

ive got a TR thats dual fuel, ive only had it for bout 4 months but the guy before me had it on gas for like 5 years.
Still running fine...well as fine as a magna runs lol

Just had a look in my manual for my TS, and it says that one shouldnt run the V6 on LPG

ive got a TR thats dual fuel, ive only had it for bout 4 months but the guy before me had it on gas for like 5 years.
Still running fine...well as fine as a magna runs lol

Is it a 4 or a v6?

I just found the bit where it says the 2.6l astron is fine for LPG, but the v6 isn't :(

Methinks more investigation is in order. I wanna know why it's unsuitable.

Thats why you rebuild the engine with gas in mind. Same as when you turbo a motor you rebuild it with that in mind.

i heard that you lose 20% power on an lpg conversion
is that true????

i heard that you lose 20% power on an lpg conversion
is that true????
If running dual fuel you will lose power, dont know about percentagewise though. Running straight gas will actually INCREASE power, sounds crazy i know but it's true!

If running dual fuel you will lose power, dont know about percentagewise though. Running straight gas will actually INCREASE power, sounds crazy i know but it's true!

Basically correct,
With a dual fuel system the gas mixer will restrict the intake compared to standard when running on petrol, this will reduce full throttle performance on petrol. Add to this timing advance and compression (internal engine mods) can only be increased within the octane limits of petrol which is 98 ron maximum.
Dual fuel engines are limited in how they can be tuned when compared to a straight LPG engine that is built and tuned to take full advantage of the extra octane in LPG (about 120 ron).
A dual fuel engine is basically running inefficiently on LPG and using more LPG than it otherwise would even if was tuned at the limits of petrol.
With straight LPG you can run a higher compression engine and/or more advance and improve an engine's thermal efficiency to take full advantage of the extra octane, this sort of engine tune would pre-detonate (ping) on petrol.... so don't try it on your dual fuel car.