now i know i'll get critisism with my high beliefs of N/A only.
however, this application, besides other nessesary parts, would be free. and i dont turn down free stuff. ever. lol
I have been offered a supercharger.
and after extensively reading about how they work and blah blah blah. I figured pretty much, why not.
however, there are the odd concern here and there and the like.
the bracket to mount would be made.
the mounting........... i dunno, perhaps an extension off the cam and water pump belt?, or remove junk on lhs and run off motors crank near alternator.
standard carby........ now ive read up on applications of a bolt on for next to all cars with SCs due to how they work and all, however there was a few concerns on the net of the mitsubishi carb. however no reference to the car, engine, carby. now considering it was the net, im sure US, so im guessing, starion, or... i really dunno.
and apart from that, general consesis from you guys, lol
as to what type of SC it is, i havent bothered to look into it. if its the kind that require oil from the block, i next to doubt ill be doing it, coz i dont want an incentive for a weak point.
but yeah. opinions....

btw, yes, automatic, yes carby, and no if i dont use it can u have it, coz itll be going on an old supra unless i take it. lol

oh and btw, the spindle/ cog, w/e u wanna call it, is 6psi boost setting., so basically standard for an SC

DAMMIT, STOLE MY IDEA! :rant:

nah, i figured id supercharge mine since notorius recons itll be cheaper, plus i have the perfect spot for it (since i have no A/C), that way i can play it off as if its the A/C if anyone looks lol

I think its actually possible to move the altenator to the water pump side, and run it off the water pump belt, and put the S/C where the altenator would usually go...

What supercharger is it?

So is your engine running stock internals ? i hope it can handle 6psi :D

I am thinking about doing this if i can find a sc for cheap.

As i said, i dont know what SC it is, i kinda disreguarded it till recently, got bored, read about SC's and now contemplating it.

btw terrosidic, someone has SC'd there car b4, so ure not the first, lol

As for running stock internals, yes i am, but after reading on how SC's work and all.
i dont think there be a great problem with a bolt on application.
the only greatest fan fair is the fact that the mitsu carb was stated to run lean once the SC kicked in with the higher RPM's which is what its sposed to do.
they said to replace to the jets, but then wouldnt you just be running it rich when the SC is not adding extra air? :nuts:

so hence why i'm kinda halting.
i know the guy who SC'd his car, and trying to track him down, becoz he'd be able to tell me. his was a carb, and stock 1 to. he had a beefier cam and shaved head, but nothing that really strengthened anything for the engine. only added to the power.......

As for shifting the alternator, thats not a bad idea. however ure then making 2 custom brackets, and have the pain of rerouting wire.
plus i dont think i'd want a water pump near an electrical generator..... if the seal cracks...


btw, i thought supercharging was cheaper to due to how it works..... according to the net. its dearer, becoz it how it works... go figure.
unless u got 100% second hand stuff and do all the work ureself, it actually costs more apparently.

[QUOTE=Aströn Boy]the only greatest fan fair is the fact that the mitsu carb was stated to run lean once the SC kicked in with the higher RPM's which is what its sposed to do.
they said to replace to the jets, but then wouldnt you just be running it rich when the SC is not adding extra air?
[QUOTE]


Better to run it rich, rather then lean, thats for sure. Unless u wanna go rebuilding the engine.

Also are u gonna intercool this in anyway? have u consider how the intake pipe, SC to carb pipe is gonna run etc...

Better to run it rich, rather then lean, thats for sure. Unless u wanna go rebuilding the engine.

Also are u gonna intercool this in anyway? have u consider how the intake pipe, SC to carb pipe is gonna run etc...
yeah, i guess having it run rich is better, but im sure theres a better solution.
piping is pretty much sorted, like connection, etc, intercooler. nah, i can just run it without 1. ic just allows for more power. doesnt affect it in any what way.

how is the super charger more expensive?

how is the super charger more expensive?
dunno, just every site i visited about SC's stated they were just a more expensive application over a turbo.....

Aströn Boy, if you dont know what sort of supercharger you have please provide some pictures then some of us can get some sort of idea of what arrangement will suit you best. how much of this work are you planning to undertake yourself, or do you have a mechanic or a friend lined up to acheive this task?

Have a look around for some examples of supercharger installs in FWD cars. I know that there is a kit out there to fit a Mazda SP23 where the supercharger sits above the gearbox linked to a driven shaft that passes over the extractors to where it is driven via the alternator belt. Maybe you can adopt a similar sort of arrangement seeing as there is space-a-plenty over the gearboxes in our Magna's anyways. Unfortunatley with this setup you will need all your bearings, shafts and mountings to be set-up accurately and strong enough to handle the stress of the supercharger.

Myself im a believer that if your going to undertake any project that you should try get it right first time round to avoid future excess spending and heartache. Nobody likes a shonky mechanic when it comes to servicing, so why should we as enthusiasts cut corners for the sake of performance? In any charging situation id advise to stregthen the engine in any way possible for piece of mind (forged pistons / conrods, copper headgasket ect) but if you must keep the stock internals they will work if your supercharger is running at 6psi, however i would doubt that they would enjoy spirited driving for too long. A possible short term measure would be to drop in some pistons from the astron1 from a sigma / scorpion. The astron1 compression should be about 8.2:1 (as opposed to the 8.8:1 of our astron2s) so charging the engine under a lower compression should keep the engine safer.

Id seriously reccomend that you look into upgrading your carburettor or look into an EFI setup. After you get your supercharger working your engine is going to need almost twice as much air and fuel to keep it happy. Maybe we can convince you to join team weber :P

Keep nutting out the problems and keep us posted on any updates. I for one would be very interested to see how an astron performs with a blower strapped to the side of it. Goodluck

-Wagon*

as i said, i dont much like forced induction, and the only reason i was contemplating was due to the fact this SC is free. as to looking what kind of SC it is, is not my main concern, it was the going about of putting it onto the car.
im in no way gonna start screwing around with the rest of the engine if it requires to be, coz thats just going down a track i really cant be bothered to do with a 4 cylinder engine.
id preferably rather know how a stock a2 would hold up to a SC, anykind as 6psi is the main focus, not what type of charger it is. and be informed that way.
whilst it seemed relatively easy, theres just been to many highlights to this undertaking thats made me 2nd consider. and i just dont think i'll be doing it.
carb is the main concern as for the running lean/ rich etc. and mehyeh im def not touching EFI with a 10 foot pole.
as for the work, the guy who's giving it to me was going to be the one installing it, along with me, and yeah he's a certified mech. however he's never worked with a magna... hard to believe, but happens i guess.
i'll be looking into it a fraction further and getting in touch with the guy who SC'd his and making my descision from there.... but i dont think its gonna happen if i have to start replacing stuff.

Fair call, fair call. Maybe leave the idea for a rainy day, who knows.

Well if your getting a S/c it for free why dont you buy / aquire an old sigma or corrolla bomb and experiment with a little forced induction on that. Could anyone say good old-fashoned farm fun? :badgrin:

-Wagon*

Fair call, fair call. Maybe leave the idea for a rainy day, who knows.

Well if your getting a S/c it for free why dont you buy / aquire an old sigma or corrolla bomb and experiment with a little forced induction on that. Could anyone say good old-fashoned farm fun? :badgrin:

-Wagon*
problem with that is, doesnt give a good indication, as to properly find out how suitable this is, id need an astron 2, with auto box, in a rebuilt atleast 95% condition engine, otherwise i just wont get a good idea of how possible this is.
let alone to the fact also id need equivalent mods to what I have, to see with my car how decent it is.
I could stick it on my MU11, but that engines screwed.
and besides the guys only giving it to me on the terms it goes in my car, to be used and assured its staying in there. elsewise it's going in his to be Supra,
well, he has a few ideas, so he may not even use the SC, hence why im being offered. but for now sites are this 1 SC he has. so

lol, so in all that confusion, it either goes on 100% or not. lol
kind of annoying.

i was gonna say;

ill happily donate my car to have the S/C installed into :D

but then you had to go and spoil it by saying;


besides the guys only giving it to me on the terms it goes in my car, to be used and assured its staying in there.

:cry:

im intrested into getting some form of forced induction, i reckon supercharging would be easier than setting up a turbo. i was thinking about deleting the water pump, installing a davies craig electric waterpump and controller which with sit low near the radiator then running a blower off the waterpump pulley. but for the extra cost i reckon it would be better to get a proffesional to install the blower properly than do it myself.

another project astron boy, y do i sense this one will die off too?

think about the costs for a S/C on a carby
super charger
bracket
piping
intercooler + piping
FPR + fuel pump
engine strengthening (optional i believe)

now turbo
turbo
manifold
new airbox (barely worth mentioning)
intercooler + piping
FPR + fuel pump
engine strengthening (optional i believe)

so the last 3 things are the same for both applications. a turbo can be bought for so cheap compared to a S/C. lets pretend for a second that the s/c is being sold from someone u dont know with no mates rates. u wont find one cheap. i got my TD04 for $215 delivered (and thats with $65 postage and handling with insurance/tracking etc. find a supercharger for that price delivered that will suit the engine and ill sell my car, buy a civic and put RICE stickers all over it

then the manifold for the turbo. cheap as. u can make it urself (if u are any good at welding). but then u can find a place to get one done for cheapish too... $300 i was told from a guy who owns a business in town. thats full custom, and i dont know him.

im not surprised that the supercharger setup will cost more. its more work too... will b off the road alot longer than a car would be thats being turboed. i was quoted $1600 for a supercharger from something with a 2.4L engine installed (thats just S/C, bracket and piping). i can get my turbo conversion done for that including everything and i could even get some little extras to strengthen the engine. thats y i took one look at supercharging and told em where to stick it

how are you going with the turbo conversion? havent seen any updates in a while

another project astron boy, y do i sense this one will die off too?
A: this has been an enquiry thread.
B: (i believe) coming from you, sounds like you know your stuff hardcore.
C: turbo turbo turbo, i see a picture and words, but no information for well over 6 months, and i'm all talk. :nuts:
if you have a grudge for whatever known reason, leave it to msn, theres no need to waste these other peoples time yeah.
back to the thread alright.

A: this has been an enquiry thread.
B: (i believe) coming from you, sounds like you know your stuff hardcore.
C: turbo turbo turbo, i see a picture and words, but no information for well over 6 months, and i'm all talk. :nuts:
if you have a grudge for whatever known reason, leave it to msn, theres no need to waste these other peoples time yeah.
back to the thread alright.

A: i was giving information to help with the enquiry, thats wat my whole post was full of. info :)
B: well u can choose to strengthen the engine or not. its up to u, but u dont have to. ive heard of ppl with 2.6L's turbo'ing their car without having their engine properly built for it. and it survives, but only on low boost. again, only info from me, dunno y there is a reason to snap at me.
C: its hard to round up parts and do things wen ive bin working everyday and the spare time i do have is used to play sport. 2 sports infact, so yeah it takes up alittle time. and i have said to the ppl who have asked, that my goal was to have it done before the end of this year. guess u wouldnt have known if u didnt ask. :cool:

i dont see y u thought i was snapping at u. but anyway, on with the thread. i hope the info i provided helped.

u can get super chagers cheap, i see gze ones go for 200 regualy, so its make up a bracket and run piping, an intercooler is not needed as much as it would be on a turbo as the air doesnt pass that close to the ehxuast, so for a easy job would need SC, Bracket, Belt, piping, were as a turbo you would need turbo manifold, turbo, piping, intercooler.

and yeah i will critize u for this astron boy :P i would of told u off on msn cept some malaka stole my account

A: i was giving information to help with the enquiry, thats wat my whole post was full of. info :)
B: well u can choose to strengthen the engine or not. its up to u, but u dont have to. ive heard of ppl with 2.6L's turbo'ing their car without having their engine properly built for it. and it survives, but only on low boost. again, only info from me, dunno y there is a reason to snap at me.
C: its hard to round up parts and do things wen ive bin working everyday and the spare time i do have is used to play sport. 2 sports infact, so yeah it takes up alittle time. and i have said to the ppl who have asked, that my goal was to have it done before the end of this year. guess u wouldnt have known if u didnt ask. :cool:

i dont see y u thought i was snapping at u. but anyway, on with the thread. i hope the info i provided helped.
the rest of your post was full of info.
justify the comment at the begining. that in no way was info, or even helpful, just a personal fixated comment on what....

u can get super chagers cheap, i see gze ones go for 200 regualy, so its make up a bracket and run piping, an intercooler is not needed as much as it would be on a turbo as the air doesnt pass that close to the ehxuast, so for a easy job would need SC, Bracket, Belt, piping, were as a turbo you would need turbo manifold, turbo, piping, intercooler.

and yeah i will critize u for this astron boy i would of told u off on msn cept some malaka stole my account
had u been on msn, you would have known :D hehe
yeah the plan was just bolt on, no intercooler, as thats only a means of gaining even more power.
the piping is there with the SC, all id need is a bracket, which a piece of metal, welder and a drill could make, and a belt with placement.
its just the carb issue, and unknown factor.

hehe, u prob woulda given me more crap than info due to my hate of FI in the first place hehehehe :redface:

tru that, at least ure goin at it the same way i would so yeah good luck man, yet why not just make it v6, u know more cylinders and all the other crap u used to tell me, im sure u coud get a crashed tr realy cheap

tru that, at least ure goin at it the same way i would so yeah good luck man, yet why not just make it v6, u know more cylinders and all the other crap u used to tell me, im sure u coud get a crashed tr realy cheap
well i might be getting a kr verada, which has been outside my house for who knows how long, im seeing the owner tomorrow, if he's canning it, the cars mine, and will be stripped.
but nah, the whole point of this SC was its FREE
i had no intentions to mod my wagon.
but meh, see how it goes, ill post up something tonight further for this, found a guy who damn knows his stuff and seems as tho this SC will bolt right on no mucking around.
but i cant say 100% just yet.

hmmm. this is all very interesting
from how im reading this thread im getting that everyones saying go turbo coz its cheaper and better etc etc. But these people are still running NA magna yeh? so what would you know in practicality. all your doing is using hypothicals.

I did it with my conversion, i thought it would of been 3gz tops... Well how wrong was i!
Putting a turbo isnt as easy as getting a manifold, turbo and a couple of pipes. What about clutches, exhausts, intakes, AFMs, Fueling, CVs. And just general stress on the engine and components, these things dont come for free. So before u go flaming someone for their ideas i reckon u should have some rock solid evidence.

sure you could possibly run the Alternator off your water pump belt/pulley......but it woudlnt be very effective. Have you seen how slow the Water bump belt turns in comparison to your drive belt?

sure you could possibly run the Alternator off your water pump belt/pulley......but it woudlnt be very effective. Have you seen how slow the Water bump belt turns in comparison to your drive belt?
actually i havent, i thought it would been the same????
crank goes to the timing chain, chain goes to cam, cam goes to the gear that makes the water pump move.
hmm. well placement ive yet to come to yet, but TY for the fyi

actually i havent, i thought it would been the same????
crank goes to the timing chain, chain goes to cam, cam goes to the gear that makes the water pump move.
hmm. well placement ive yet to come to yet, but TY for the fyi

if all the pulleys/gears where the same size.....then yes it would be the same. unfortunately this is not the case.

if all the pulleys/gears where the same size.....then yes it would be the same. unfortunately this is not the case.
hmmm
OK well, info time peeps. I have good news and bad news.
The good news. If you want to supercharge your car, go right ahead. Carby, fuel injection, it does not matter.
Due to the way SC's work, it works well with even stock engines. These babies, dependant on SC size of course, can be bolted up to a 100% stock factory magna, and give instant gains.
However
Whilst I did mention the problem of the carby it is a fact that richer is better. The carby can be tuned to run slightly richer to work with the SC.
With a stock engine, I've been told 4psi only. Which doesn’t sound great, but remember that 4psi was not there b4. Breathing mods, like luckily I have done. Is perfect for 6psi. But, a diff carby would benefit, but not necessary, due to the way the carby can be tuned.
Upsides:
SC can be bolted on, granted you have a location... still working on that.
SC will give benefits, no ECU needed, granted you know someone who knows the spindle sizes... I call them spindles.... the wheel off the belt.
Downsides:
As unfortunate as it is. Automatics gearboxes, especially ours, are really not ideal. The main concern brought up was the fact that 1 gear could actually rev right out, and I'm sure you can guess that outcome. It is highly unlikely; however the SC will wear the box out faster due to the revs and strain.
An rpm for the SC to kick in needs to be sorted as to not affect the car in daily driving. So if you were in first gear and took off, the SC was made to kick in @ 2500rpm, then first gear would always have the SC kick in, which u don’t want.
Can’t quite remember my slow driving techniques, but from memory 1st gears rpm lasted till 3400rpm??? So 3500rpm kick in for the SC would be fine.
Of course a computerized SC would help ever so much, but not going there.

So in the end you’d need, an engine, 95% perfect. So a rebuilt one is great.
A manual, gearbox is better due to control over the revs. However low boost with the auto is fine.
Things to keep in mind. Gearbox strain if you have an auto due the above mentioned. Make sure your TPS and carby are nicely tuned, also to have it slightly richer.
And lastly the rpms need to be figured out. Which I haven’t got to yet, might go for a slow ride tomorrow and record the rpm gear changes.
And that’s my extensively long post.

dude do u know anything about superchargers? The fact that they Run off a BELT means they make power from IDLE....they do not "kick-in" like a turbo. The only way you could do that was if the pulley on the S/C had a electro-magnetic clutch, which could be switched on and off to engage/disengage the S/C.

Info Time: i think you need to do some more researching.....

dude do u know anything about superchargers? The fact that they Run off a BELT means they make power from IDLE....they do not "kick-in" like a turbo. The only way you could do that was if the pulley on the S/C had a electro-magnetic clutch, which could be switched on and off to engage/disengage the S/C.

Info Time: i think you need to do some more researching.....
umm, i think u need to read up on them. yes they work from key start, but they dont actually add power until certain rpms. not unless u have it work with the engine from 500rpm.
the boost slowly increases but the real gain is from the more amount of engine rotations.
i have in no way said it to be like a turbo.
but it does work off certain rpms to gain the boost. the difference is theres no lag because the force works with the engines natural spin.

ok, have copied this from superhchargers online, 1 of the sites i got my info from

because of the way superchargers work, they provide power only when the engine is under full throttle or under load... not under normal cruising conditions. This means that the supercharger will not affect the engine's reliability, longevity, or fuel economy under normal driving conditions.
after having read thru my post, think of full throttle being the higher rpms that make the SC 'kick in' or add more air to the engine to gain boost.
sorry for the confusion, is was merely my bad way of putting it. but meant the same thing.

Couldnt you do the resistor trick to make the auto change when you want it too (well, differently anyways)

If you install a variable resister that would be awsome.

Couldnt you do the resistor trick to make the auto change when you want it too (well, differently anyways)

If you install a variable resister that would be awsome.
sorry, dunno what trick ure referring to. but 1 way is to use the gearshift lever. which'd kinda suck to have to use all the time. but, meh

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11888&highlight=resistor

Im not sure if this is the correct thread, but i remember someone using a resistor into tricking the ecu so it changes the gears differently.

oh that
:confused: well i cant remark on that having never done it and experiencing the results. so. *shrug*

transmission mod for the autos only works if the gearbox is in top condition

ive done the trans mod to my auto, and all it does is hold the gear for 500rpm longer (with my current resistor in place), but then my auto is in serious need of a service :P

for those that dont know about it, its suppose to make the gear changes feel more direct, like a manual and you get a sort of clunk action happening as when autos change gears,
it has 1st gear going,
then when it goes to change,
2nd comes in, takes over,
and then 1st goes away.

manual goes;
1st gear going,
press clutch in, 1st goes out,
2nd goes in, release clutch.

so the trans mod makes auto changes harsher, but it could be argued it makes your auto last longer as theres less heat build up

manual goes;
1st gear going,
press clutch in, 1st goes out,
2nd goes in, release clutch.

sif u need to press the cluch in just slam in it 2nd :D

u know if u get it at the right revs, u can change gears without pushing the clutch in. ive seen it done, and ive done it myself. gotta love synchros

u know if u get it at the right revs, u can change gears without pushing the clutch in. ive seen it done, and ive done it myself. gotta love synchros
yer i know
the first time it happened to me it was a mistake then i relised this could be fun haha lol
pulling it out of the gears is fine its just putting it back if u dont do it right turns out a lil nasty :badgrin:

yer i know
the first time it happened to me it was a mistake then i relised this could be fun haha lol
pulling it out of the gears is fine its just putting it back if u dont do it right turns out a lil nasty :badgrin:

:bowrofl: i know

GRRRRRGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRR GRIND.... :rant:

Actually, only Positive Displacement superchargers run all the time (Rootes, Eaton, etc)
Centrifugal superchargers, such as the Vortech, run similar to a turbo, as in, they will not provide boost until a certain level

so are you going thru with this astronboy? what brand supercharger is it?
if you are not i would love to buy it from you!

so are you going thru with this astronboy? what brand supercharger is it?
if you are not i would love to buy it from you!
have found out, it is infact the all popular 1G toyota engine supercharger.
anyone know what there called? or coded, u have to refer to the engine all the time.
currently in the means of figuring out a place for it, to say the least. its Huge!
have had a few ideas, and red up how the other guy SC'd his car,
so atm im working on trying to make the thing fit under the hood. lol
may have to buldge the bonnet, :confused:
as for selling it, unfort as ive mentioned, unless it goes on my car its going on my friends supra...... but i read the supras require a larger again SC.... so, i dunno.
still waiting for my friend to get back from NZ. for now im simply consulting others installations on the net.
no so many people SC fwd cars, due to the belt issue which im currently facing.
but im sure it'll work out. if not, hasnt cost me anything.

normally toyota SC's are like Sprintex

im sure its called a 'SC14'

on the toymods forums (toyota dudes) they refer to them as a 1G supercharger or SC14

they normally go for $400 in good cond. if you get the housing sandblasted they look way better too... like brand new!

with the pulley/belt setup try and figure out an adjustable belt tensioner cos its hard to mount it so the belt is constantly gripping.

the pulleys and belts of old VN common*****s water pumps are a great diameter for upgrading boost too!!(at least they are good for something...)

a few guys do custom installations for VL commies too, and iv been in one and i almost shaat myself! the absolutely fly...13 sec quarter mile in an auto...

ok, well here is the final news for this thread..... for now anyway.
after much deliberation, waiting for my friend to return, finding a place to mount, yada yada yada.
i have decided in this case not to proceed. why?
it's not so much i'd have troubles. hell its kinda plug and play.
the main issue is the fact this supercharger is just not right for the car. despite the fact its free. its adding 10kgs all up of extra dead weight. and imo i'd only benefit if boost was always on at 7psi. plus the factor this SC is HUGE and all up i could do better.
whilst i have said it can be done, none of that changes. it is merely a factor of finding a supercharger to suit.
only reason i considered this was FREE factor.
placement, theres a few guys here that have express SC plans as well and we've been discussing mounting points and all.
it does seem the cam arm/ water pump pulley is the best place.
a modified version of this pulley, or a smaller one with an electronic water pump would be quite sufficient to apply boost for the engine.
abit of tinkering would need to be done, but ud have to tinker with the fuel system, so a few pulleys wont hurt.
as it is my car is running rather lean, and i'd require the car to be 100% tuned and as i mentioned running rich for boost to properly work, and atm, i can't be assed to be frank :D .
for all those that are looking at going SC, i say go for it. grant it you also do the research and know what ure on about personally. cause it is well worth it.
if i'm bored one day and feel like my car is lacking in power i may go out and do the research on a well suited and light SC for my wagon.
until then, i'm free for info.

but it can be done, it was done even b4 i thought of it, and it worked. just make sure u are 100% and u do the research also. :D enjoy.