ok, so this relay im using works by having a power source flowing thru it to enable the switch to be turned on.
so once car is turned on, stereo powers up, and relay is activated to allow power to flow thru to power windows.

what i want is for power to come from battery, and then for a manual switch to allow power to be turned on/off so the ignition doesnt have to be on for power windows to work, below is a pic of the relay image. tho as poor as it is. :P

http://www.dans.gotdns.com/images/relay.jpg

Just bypass the relay and add a switch onto it.

So a cable from where the battery goes into the relay to a switch to the load on the relay.

When car is on the switch won't do anything else. When car is off switch will provide power to the power windows if on and nothing if off.

Peace

Tim

Just bypass the relay and add a switch onto it.

So a cable from where the battery goes into the relay to a switch to the load on the relay.

When car is on the switch won't do anything else. When car is off switch will provide power to the power windows if on and nothing if off.

Peace

Tim
dont think i quite understand, but from reading it
i'd need 2 relays, which still doesnt solve the problem.
the way i figure it is like an 'equals' and 'multiply' symbol.
so ordinarily the way the relay works is
=
i want to cross the wires or what ever and make it like
X
so say pin 1 and 2 have the power come in and pin 3 and 4 ordinarily have igntion to power relay,
is it possible to have 1 and 4 with the power and 2 and 3 with the manual switch?
or even 1 and 3, 2 and 4. either way...

Most relays have 5 connectors

86 Ground (to chassis)
30 Positive (To fused lead which goes to battery positive)
85 Switch (to 12v "Accessories" cable which gives 12v when on and 0v when off eg ignition)
87 Active when on (this will go to the positive of ur load eg ur electric windows)
87A Active when off (if you wanted a circuit that only worked when the accessories switch was off you would use this.

I assume you already have a relay like this powering ur electric windows. If so running a lead from 30 (positive) to your new switch, then to 87 (Active) should achieve what you want.

Peace

Tim

edit: relays are used to keep high currents away from the inside of your car where they can start fires. By using a relay instead of running a thick high current cable through to a large switch behind your dash, which would have many amps running through it. You can keep the relay in the engine bay and run a small signal carrying cable to the relay, controlling it safely from inside the cabin.

Most relays have 5 connectors

86 Ground (to chassis)
30 Positive (To fused lead which goes to battery positive)
85 Switch (to 12v "Accessories" cable which gives 12v when on and 0v when off eg ignition)
87 Active when on (this will go to the positive of ur load eg ur electric windows)
87A Active when off (if you wanted a circuit that only worked when the accessories switch was off you would use this.

I assume you already have a relay like this powering ur electric windows. If so running a lead from 30 (positive) to your new switch, then to 87 (Active) should achieve what you want.

Peace

Tim

edit: relays are used to keep high currents away from the inside of your car where they can start fires. By using a relay instead of running a thick high current cable through to a large switch behind your dash, which would have many amps running through it. You can keep the relay in the engine bay and run a small signal carrying cable to the relay, controlling it safely from inside the cabin.

yeah this is only a 4 pin, and not the standard numbers, the image above is what is on the relay,
i thought with relays u had like 12vpassing thru and could then have a manual switch, which had a much lower current that could be fused and so was a safety, instead of needing a 12volt signal sent to activate the switch for the relay?...... i am so confused and i want this done tomorrow.

edit: if im able to get this happening, i also wish to do the same with my engine thermo fans, as to be able to manually control then as the thermo's are stuffed and i'd rather know there on.

Ah k it wont have an active off connector then.

So find which one goes to ground, which one goes to positive which one goes to the window mechanism and the the other one will go to the accessories.

Test it with a multimeter to be on the safe side. turning the ignition on and off to get a reading.

Piccy for reference, ignore the centre connector
http://www.carcentral.net/content/guides/thumbnails/WiringAFogLightRelay.gif

Peace

Tim

yeah, about that
anyone know which ones do what? lol
i dont have a multimeter, i never use to do this stuff.
but have been and until now havent needed a multimeter and dont wanna drive 10yrs to buy one coz mm
so, anyone know? lol
see if any of my manuals state it, highly doubt it.

just use any 12 v appliance. Say use a test light with bare wires.

hold on wire against the first lead and then place the other wire against the other leads to see if you find a circuit. if you do then one of them has to be ground and one has to be the battery if ignition is off.

ignition off:
86 = ground
30 = active
85
87

ignition on:
86 = ground
30 = active
85 = active
87 = active

only thing you can stuff up is by connecting the new switch wire to 85 instead of 30. (little wire will draw too much current and fuse will prob blow inside the car for the electric windows) Alternatively you can pull out this fuse to help you find which wire you have.

unfortunately giving the standard horn relay numbers dont help, as they dont exist in this instance
accoridng to 1 of my manuals, which is the only 1 to go greatly do details with the same image as i provided (tho lacking numbers) it seems i can go 2 ways, the best way seems to be
pwr windows positive leads to #4
#3 leads to fusible link
fusible link hot at all times, 12Volt.
#2 leads to negative
#1 leads to accesories line (ignition)

i'll have to grab a friends multimeter, lucky i have a few of these relays :S
my thought now is to have #1 on the relay to lead to a manual switch in the car, the switch within the car, leads to interior dash clock (or any accesories line). as that should be enough to power the relay to 'on' and for my to use pwr windows whilst ignition is off.
i'll edit the wiring diagram i scanned, and i'll add in my new lil addon to show visually.

yep, but remember accessories are only on when the keys are in (in which case the relay would already be powered up. You need to find a way to get another 12v supply to the relay switch when the car's ignition is off.

There are a few always on leads running through the car. (stereo, interior lights etc.)

Shouldn't be too hard to find one.

yep, but remember accessories are only on when the keys are in (in which case the relay would already be powered up. You need to find a way to get another 12v supply to the relay switch when the car's ignition is off.

There are a few always on leads running through the car. (stereo, interior lights etc.)

Shouldn't be too hard to find one.
yeah thats the accesories line i mean, a 12volt low amp line that is always on, interior clock etc. should be right to work, so here is the end result, edited with my low fix to show how it will be
only 2 doors coz my rear door looms got destroyed due to non electrical related issue.

Using this method (providing the wires are right at the relay) will mean that if the switch is off and the ignition is on, your windows wont work at all.

That what you want?

yep, i want it to be like a complete over ride.
tho its easy to break into my car, if its even easier whereby a hairline crack could allow a coathanger to depress power window button to down. this switch will kill it, acting like ignition, but if someone is in the car, and i never leave my keys in there, i can have switch on, and they can control there window...

ah so atm you can use the windows without the key in the ignition? Thats no good...

Should work a treat then

ah so atm you can use the windows without the key in the ignition? Thats no good...

Should work a treat then
currently i have manual windows. i wasnt gonna put em in till i'd figured the relay out, which i hopefully now have.
will post up any corrections if i find them. or if i have had sucess with the schematic i put up.
for 4 windows it doesnt change anything, u just run the extra wires to get to LHR and RHR

ok, thought i'd post up.
the schematic given above of the 4 pin mitsubishi brytel relay is 100% correct.
note to those who whish to use these relays, look at the pins, and the #d locations are odd and not as the above picture, nor as mine..
but it does work, and i'll be using these relays for my thermo fan controls now :D

yah power windows. :D

Cool.... good stuff!

I know this thread has been answered, but to make things more clearer (for anyone else that is):

Referring back to the diagram on your first post, the first symbol (between 2 and 1) is of a magnetic coil. The second symbol (between 4 and 3) is of a switch. In this case, its the magnetic switch you don't see inside the relay. This switch is controlled by the magnetic field produced by the coil when a current is passed through 1 and 2.

As stimulate said, this normally used to allow a safe low current to be able to switch a higher current connection. The relay is hopefully near a fusable link, thus the physical switch can be located safely elsewhere.

Relays come in many types, standard 'horn' relays are what we normally use in cars. Theres the basic ''Normally Open" relays where the internal switch creates contact when the coil is operated, or the "Normally Close" relays where the internal switch initially creates contact without needing a current, but contact ceases when coil gets a electrical current.

There are also relays which have both types in one, these normally have an extra pin on the relay.

Didn't mean to do a complete description of a relay, but it happened.

I know this thread has been answered, but to make things more clearer (for anyone else that is):

Referring back to the diagram on your first post, the first symbol (between 2 and 1) is of a magnetic coil. The second symbol (between 4 and 3) is of a switch. In this case, its the magnetic switch you don't see inside the relay. This switch is controlled by the magnetic field produced by the coil when a current is passed through 1 and 2.

As stimulate said, this normally used to allow a safe low current to be able to switch a higher current connection. The relay is hopefully near a fusable link, thus the physical switch can be located safely elsewhere.

Relays come in many types, standard 'horn' relays are what we normally use in cars. Theres the basic ''Normally Open" relays where the internal switch creates contact when the coil is operated, or the "Normally Close" relays where the internal switch initially creates contact without needing a current, but contact ceases when coil gets a electrical current.

There are also relays which have both types in one, these normally have an extra pin on the relay.

Didn't mean to do a complete description of a relay, but it happened.
nah that's good clarrifies it. FYI I basically replicated the wiring harness from the drivers door to the relay box and used the fusible link and everything, all i had to do was create 2 wires that didnt exist and run a small wire from fuse to relay.
took me all day coz A put the motor in upside down and B put the wires round the wrong way coz i was looking at the image and not the pins.
but yeah works well, just gotta make a lil switch board on the dash for my amp, pwr windows and thermo fans. and create a second relay box utilising factory stuff to make it look nice in the bay :P